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Rahami's Wife Left Before Bombing; Bombing Suspects Former Classmate Speaks Out; Trump's Son On Refugees; Jolie and Pitt Divorce. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 20, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:27] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me on this Tuesday. This is CNN.

Breaking news here. New details in the man accused of planting those bombs in and around New York City and New Jersey was jailed for stabbing his own relative and that the FBI had investigated him on accusations of terrorism, allegedly by his own father.

This as we get a window into the mind of Ahmad Rahami. A source telling CNN the suspected attacker wrote about the Boston bombers and an American-born al Qaeda mastermind. His terror ramblings found in a notebook after his shootout with police. Investigators now believe he was inspired by other terrorists but questions remain about whether he was, in fact, acting alone.

Another big question here, why did the bomber's wife up and leave the United States days before these attacks? Officials telling CNN this Pakistani woman, who he married while they were overseas back in 2011, skipped the country three days before the bombs went off. So we have that.

Pamela Brown has been working this for us. She's our CNN justice correspondent.

But let's begin with this note on the father, the fact that he'd been in jail. What more do we know about that?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. So we have learned today, in speaking to law enforcement officials, that the father of Ahmad was actually questioned by the FBI back in 2014 after this domestic dispute. Ahmad had been arrested for stabbing his brother in the leg and unlawful possession of a weapon. He was put in jail and apparently at this time a neighbor heard the father saying that his son was a terrorist. The neighbor alerted authorities about this and then the FBI interviewed the dad. And we're told by officials that during that interview the dad downplayed concern about his son and the FBI apparently determined that this wasn't anything more than a domestic dispute and Ahmad was not placed on any terror watch list.

What's interesting is we're told that Ahmad was never interviewed at this time in 2014. He was in jail. A grand jury decided not to indict. But this apparently happened, Brooke, this domestic dispute happened shortly after he returned to the United States from Pakistan. He spent a year in Pakistan, 2013 to 2014. Before that he was there in 2011, where he married his wife. And so, of course, all of this raises questions. But we're told he went through secondary screening when he returned to the U.S. and he didn't raise any red flags. He said he was just visiting his family.

BALDWIN: So also we know he is still in that hospital in New Jersey. He's being treated. We know he faces five counts of attempted murder of police. Is he cooperating?

BROWN: So at last check - and, of course, you know how these things go, Brooke, it can change any minute - but at last check initially he was not cooperating, he had not been Mirandized as of this morning. And so what authorities could do is exercise the national security exception, the public safety exception, which happened in the Boston bombing as well with the Dzohkhar Tsarnaev in the hospital. And so what authorities hope to do is - is to get Ahmad to speak to them today at some point in the hospital.

What's tricky is the medical side of things, because he went into surgery after being shot. He could be on medications, which could alter his mind. So there's a lot of factors at play here. But authorities, of course, hope to learn from him more about his motivations. They have some clues in that notebook that was on him that they were able to get after he was captured in the shootout where he talked about Anwar al-Awlaki, the al Qaeda cleric. He talked about the Boston bombers. But, of course, they want to hear more from him and really find out, Brooke, whether anyone else could have been involved. I mean they're not ruling that possibility out, although they're not looking for anyone specifically, as we heard yesterday.

BALDWIN: Some - the beginnings of some of the pieces are starting to come together. Pamela Brown, thank you for that on the investigation, but also just on this 28-year-old, his character, what he was like in high school, this suspect here. He is a naturalized citizen. He was born in Afghanistan, came over when he was a little boy and is a naturalized U.S. citizen. He attended high school in Elizabeth, New Jersey. And so my next guest, Chris Konya, attended that same high school with Ahmad Rahami and he joins me now. He's a radio host there, 98.9 The Buzz.

Chris, thank you so much for jumping on TV with me.

And first things first, when is the last time you would have talked to him? Do you remember?

CHRIS KONYA, BOMBING SUSPECT'S HIGH SCHOOL CLASSMATE: Actually in high school. The difference in what you just said and what actually happened was, we went to Edison High School together in Edison, New Jersey. I was a sophomore and partial junior with him. The last time I remember him was just a casual encounter. I mean it was either in gym class or in the cafeteria or brushing shoulders in the hallway. Nothing honestly stuck out about Ahmad in high school. [14:05:12] BALDWIN: Well, if nothing stuck out, I mean do you remember

anything? I mean I think I read that you said he was a class clown. Tell me more about what he was like.

KONYA: Sure. I know that he - I remember that he dressed well. You know, designer clothes and stuff like that. I remember that. He wasn't the center of attention to where he was the captain of the football team or the prom king, but when you spoke to him, and he did, you know, respond when - if you were outside of his group of friends, he was funny. He was one of those - he doesn't talk much, but when he does, he has, you know, it was something clever to say, whether I - we were talking about sports or the music at the time, he always had input there. Now, nothing too passionate, but he didn't ignore you when you talked to him. It's such a weird - a wired thing to happen.

BALDWIN: It's interesting you note his dress. What was he, a jeans and a t-shirt kind of kid in high school?

KONYA: He - if I - he's more of like athletic wear, Air Jordans, Nike Air Force Ones. He would wear the designer - I can't think of the actual phrase, but the swishy pants of the Adidas snap-off, stuff like that.

BALDWIN: Yes.

KONYA: Just a little bit of jewelry and stuff, but nothing too flashy, nothing out of the ordinary as far as a high school kid in the '90s or the 2000s.

BALDWIN: Do you - do you remember did he - did he have girl friends? Did he date anyone that you recall?

KONYA: The only girlfriend that I recall is the girlfriend that everybody has been speaking about, Maria. And only because the relationship wasn't prominent in the gossip of high school. It wasn't announced or anything like that. But she did become pregnant before high school ended.

BALDWIN: There was a graph on a piece in "The New York Times" this morning talking about how the father was very upset with him for having this girlfriend and for, you know, the fact that she got pregnant, though I would imagine you - did you ever meet the father? Would you have known anything about him?

KONYA: I don't recall meeting the father. I only knew Ahmad in school. And when he worked at the Pathmark (ph) in Edison, New Jersey, the grocery store, and I would see him behind the counter and kind of give a nod, knowing that we're both classmates. But other than that, outside of school, not very much.

BALDWIN: Chris, was he religious? Would he talk about Islam?

KONYA: He would not, no. He was, like I said, sports, music. He did his work. He graduated. Obviously he wasn't a super above-the-top A student, but he didn't fail out of, you know, English four times or anything. Somewhere in the middle of that. Completely average. BALDWIN: Do you have any idea what he did post-graduation?

KONYA: The rumor - the only thing that came up post-graduation was that he had to go back to Afghanistan. It was a few years - I believe it was a few years after. That's the only thing - if I flipped through a yearbook and landed on his name, that's what stuck out, oh, he had to go back to Afghanistan. And the details beyond that I'm unsure, honestly.

BALDWIN: And the note that I read about ten year high school reunion, an invitation being extended or someone was searching for him. Tell me about that.

KONYA: A friend of mine, who I spoke to immediately after seeing his picture on the news, she brought up the details of the fact that when the high school reunion invitation came out, she was going through the list of people and she was home and she was going on FaceBook to see what these people were up to, landed on Ahmad, and at the time he didn't have a FaceBook, or at least a discoverable FaceBook account that existed. And then, you know, before all this happened, she thought, hey, who doesn't have a FaceBook? But now maybe it makes sense.

BALDWIN: Chris Konya, thank you so much for a little bit more of the bits and pieces of who is this person. Thank you so much.

KONYA: Thank you.

BALDWIN: I want to bring in Harry Houck, CNN law enforcement analyst and retired New York police detective, and James Gagliano, former FBI special assistant and former chief of staff, FBI special assistant to the assistant director in charge.

So, gentlemen, nice to see both of you.

First just on that interview, did anything strike you as he was describing his character, high school, dressed well, girlfriend, anything?

HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No. We're hearing a lot of this. I mean apparently he was like a normal kid in school, basically, and somehow, apparently, those trips that he made to Afghanistan and Pakistan -

BALDWIN: Changed him.

HOUCK: Definitely changed him to the point where he came back and then, you know, committed this type of attack. I'm sure he sees this kind of stuff all the time working with the FBI.

You know, how do we get to the point where we're going to be able to identify them when they come back that they're radical? I know the father had called the police about him, but that was a domestic dispute. I mean, what's the FBI going to do there?

BALDWIN: That's - because that's my follow-up, and let me ask you that, just from an FBI perspective, right? So Pamela reported that. I mean he's in jail, domestic dispute, stabs a relative and also some issue with an unlawful weapons possession charge. But beyond that, the FBI didn't question him. The father calls him a terrorist at one point, allegedly. But, I mean - what is the proper role of the FBI here?

[14:10:10] JAMES GAGLIANO, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Sure. You have to understand that law enforcement works in concert with each other now post - much better post-9/11.

BALDWIN: OK.

GAGLIANO: So you've got a - you've got a 36,000 member police force, the FBI has 1,200 agents in New York City, a number of other federal and state police departments and law enforcement agencies working together. This is a complex puzzle. And I heard the police commissioner speak early this morning and say that sometimes much of the investigation doesn't begin until after the first arrest. Now you're going to go back and piece together the pieces of the puzzle. Yes, he traveled to an area in Pakistan that is rife with Taliban. Yes he's been to Afghanistan. Those in and of themselves do not -

BALDWIN: Aren't incriminating.

GAGLIANO: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Right.

GAGLIANO: You can't go to somebody and say, OK, now we're going to detain you because of those things. You put those investigative clues, as Harry's familiar with, together. They paint a picture. And then you look at that and then that brings you to this gentleman's (INAUDIBLE) afterwards.

HOUCK: Exactly.

BALDWIN: But also the word I keep reading from law enforcement is "ghost."

GAGLIANO: Uh-huh.

BALDWIN: He's a ghost.

GAGLIANO: Right.

BALDWIN: Meaning very little - I mean even hearing the high school friend saying no FaceBook.

GAGLIANO: Sure.

BALDWIN: He has virtually no trace online.

GAGLIANO: Sure. And the way that the high school compadre of his described his dress, the way that he appeared to be assimilated, that makes it everybody more difficult. BALDWIN: We're also getting new details, this is from "The New York

Times," on the devices themselves. So apparently most are all used the old school flip phones.

HOUCK: Right.

BALDWIN: Christmas tree style lights used as initiators. And then this substance, HMTD, the explosive compound served as detonators. I believe that was also the same thing that was used in the '05 London bombings. What do you - what do you make of that, to either of you?

GAGLIANO: I would say in that regard, every bomb maker has their own specific signature. The type of bombs that we're hearing from our sources right now that - of the 10, the two that detonated and the eight that didn't -

BALDWIN: Ys.

GAGLIANO: These were rudimentary devices. These were things that, unfortunately, you can find in certain - certain corners of the Internet, you know, that - the pressure cooker type bombs, the pipe bombs, not sophisticated devices. The treasure trove for law enforcement is the fact that we have some that are unexploded. They can go back and they can build out where the parts came from and what style he used.

HOUCK: And I also think it's kind of strange that he used pipe bombs in New Jersey.

BALDWIN: Right.

HOUCK: And, you know, pressure cookers in New York. That seems a little strange to me.

BALDWIN: Not being consistent.

HOUCK: Ys, not being consistent with that. And I'm really concerned about, you know, his - his actions. You know, when did he come down to Jersey and place that bomb, right?

BALDWIN: How did he get there?

HOUCK: How did he get there? I mean, was there anybody with him? Did he make any stops? Did he rent a car? You know, did he - did he take - did he take a train? I mean these are things -

BALDWIN: What would the wife have potentially known?

HOUCK: Right. Well, yes, the wife, you know, she's - not only that, but what about that car stop by the feds on Sunday night. I think it was like 9:30.

BALDWIN: By the Verrazano Bridge.

HOUCK: Right, nearby the Verrazano Bridge. It looks like they were heading towards the - towards the airport. Now, we didn't know his - who he was until the next morning when that alert came up. Even on my cell phone, that alert came up.

BALDWIN: Same. Same.

HOUCK: All right. But they were already headed, 9:35, towards the airport. Now, the - and the FBI was on them, apparently, so they - they had - they had stopped them. So how could they have known their brother was involved in something if the word hadn't gone out until the next morning unless somehow the FBI did contact somebody and then there was a phone call placed to them to get out of dodge. I mean it's really strange. And I'm sure when the FBI stopped them, they - what they did was they interviewed them and released them but apparently all their stories jived, so that's why they were released.

BALDWIN: OK. Harry and James, thank you so much, for now.

GAGLIANO: Thank you.

HOUCK: Uh-huh.

BALDWIN: New backlash also against one of Donald Trump's own sons for comparing Syrian refugees to candy. Skittles to be specific. A reality check on that, next.

Plus, wrap your head around this. A Kennedy is now saying President George H.W. Bush, a former Republican president, father of a former Republican president, will vote for Hillary Clinton.

And they're perhaps the most famous couple in the world, but the news today, Angelina Jolie filing for divorce from Brad Pitt. What do we know? How about the why? We have that ahead.

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[14:18:15] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Donald Trump, Jr., facing more backlash after an analogy regarding Syrian refugees and the candy Skittles. Yes, Skittles. He retweeted this photo of the rainbow-colored candy and then you had the caption here, "if I had a bowl of Skittles and I told you just three would kill you, would you take a handful?" He says that is our Syrian refugee problem. This image says it all. Let's end the politically correct agenda that doesn't put America first.

Lots and lots of uproar over this, including even from Skittles' parent company, the Mars Corporation. This is the tweet from Mars. "Skittles are candy. Refugees are people. It is an inappropriate analogy. We respectfully refrain from further comment as that could be misinterpreted as marketing."

Joining me now, Philip Bump with "The Washington Post." He reality checked Trump Jr.'s tweet and is here to explain with why this is so wrong.

So it's interesting how you took the tack of doing the math and the Skittles and how it's just wrong - PHILIP BUMP, POLITICAL REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Right.

BALDWIN: Versus so many who are taking him to task over candy and human beings.

BUMP: Right.

BALDWIN: Can you explain? You used this number, it's a Cato Institute number.

BUMP: Right.

BALDWIN: The risk to an American of being killed by a refugee in a terror attack, one in 3.64 billion.

BUMP: Right, billion. Yes, I mean, that's the key. The whole thing here is scale, right? I mean if I handed you a package of a carton of eggs, 12 eggs, and said eight of these are poison, obviously you wouldn't eat those eggs, right?

BALDWIN: No.

BUMP: But if you had 10 trillion eggs, you'd be less concerned about it, right? And so the scale matters here. And so what I did is I took that number from the Cato institute, it's a libertarian organization, it's backed by the Koch brothers. This is not a liberal organization. And they estimated that number of one in 3.64 billion.

[14:20:02] So if you're talking about three instances to the point of the three Skittles, that's 10 - over 10 billion Skittles that you would need in order to have this be a fair analogy. That's enough Skittles - I did the math - enough Skittles to fill one and a half Olympic sized swimming pools. So if you imagine from the Rio Olympics, that swimming pool filled with Skittles -

BALDWIN: And three -

BUMP: Another half of those and three of them are poisoned.

BALDWIN: Three little, itty, bitty Skittles.

BUMP: Right. And so you could eat handfuls of Skittles for hundreds of years, literally for hundreds of years and you'd never come across a poison one. That's the real scale of the issue here and that's why Trump's tweet was so misleading.

BALDWIN: So he's wrong?

BUMP: Yes.

BALDWIN: He's wrong?

BUMP: Yes.

BALDWIN: When we talk about Don Jr., we were just talking the other day on this show about what he said about the gas chamber. BUMP: Right.

BALDWIN: We had also talked recently - I think he gave an interview - I think it was a Pittsburgh or a Pennsylvania paper talking about really why his dad isn't releasing his tax returns.

BUMP: Right.

BALDWIN: And now you have this Skittle analogy to human beings. Do you think perhaps he is not the best surrogate for his dad?

BUMP: I mean, it's - in a normal situation I'd say, yes, this guy's probably not a good surrogate. But, I mean, it's very on brand for Trump to say things that are a little controversial and not necessarily back down from stuff. You know, I mean, I think that the Trump children have proven to be good surrogates, in part because Donald Trump doesn't really have a lot of connections out in the world in the way that an elected official would who's been working with a lot of folks, right? We saw that at the convention. The Trump kids were very important surrogates for him there.

BALDWIN: Absolutely.

BUMP: And so I think that Trump sees the value in just having someone out there advocating for him. You know, and I think they're probably not too worried because they will say that the broader point here is they're concerned about Syrian immigration.

BALDWIN: We are six days, Philip Bump, six days away from this big, first presidential debate here in New York -

BUMP: Right.

BALDWIN: At Hofstra and I'm talking to Jeff Zeleny next hour about his intel he's getting on Hillary Clinton preparing.

BUMP: Right.

BALDWIN: Donald Trump we know has said in the past, doesn't want to do mock debates, doesn't want to appear scripted, wants to be authentic. Do we know more about what he's up to?

BUMP: I think they're playing their cards pretty close to the chest. You know, we know that he has sat down with a variety of folks to get input on what he should do. I mean I think that Donald Trump feels as though the way he handled the debates in the Republican primary was effective, that he was himself, that he didn't, you know, get too mired in policy details. I think that the campaign runs the risk of misunderstanding that this is a very different type of debate, which is one on one, which he never faced in the Republican primary. It is an extended period of time and there's going to be a lot of policy questions that come from the moderators, which I don't know that he is used to handling. Whether or not he can handle it is a whole different issue. I'm sure that they're getting him prepped on some of the basics. But I think that it is risky to take that Republican primary attitude and try and apply it to these debates. BALDWIN: OK, Philip Bump, thank you so much, "Washington Post," I

appreciate it.

BUMP: Sure.

BALDWIN: New information - back to what's happened over the weekend - New York/New Jersey, the bombing suspect's travels overseas, including Pakistan and Afghanistan. CNN is live in Kabul with new information about where he went and who he met.

Also ahead, huge news out of Hollywood today. Angelina Jolie filing for divorce from Brad Pitt. He has now responded. Hear what has happened. "Extra" host Mario Lopez joins me next.

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[14:27:32] BALDWIN: All right, there is a major Hollywood breakup. It is blowing up social media. Brangelina, yes, that's who we're talking about, Oscar-award winning actress Angelina Jolie and her longtime beau Oscar-winning actor Brad Pitt are calling it quits. Jolie filed for divorce in Los Angeles. The reason court papers cite, irreconcilable differences. The couple first made headlines on the set of "Mr. and Mrs. Smith." That was back in 2003. After a nine-year courtship, they secretly married in 2014 in a private ceremony inside their French chateaux. They have six children. Jolie wants physical custody with Pitt allowed visitation.

CNN reached out to Pitt's camp and we got this statement. Quote, "I am very saddened by this, but what matters most now is the well-being of our kids."

So joining me from Los Angeles on the set of celebrity show "Extra," host and entertainment correspondent Mario Lopez.

Mario Lopez, nice to have you on.

MARIO LOPEZ, HOST, "EXTRA": Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: This is huge, huge news where you are I know and beyond. What happened?

LOPEZ: You know, huge news like you said because this is probably the biggest celebrity couple in highest profile splits. So, clearly, it's going to get a lot of attention. And, by the way, one of the nicest couples too. I've had the opportunity to interview both of them together and separately, and nice and happy, and like you mentioned, they had six kids. And there have been rumblings of trouble in paradise for the last few months. And, of course, all the magazines out there were sort of speculating that there was problems and trouble and clearly it ended up being the case.

Angelina is the one who actually filed and Pitt, like you mentioned, said that the well-being of the kids is the number one priority and is kindly asking the press to give them space during their challenging time. And they're citing irreconcilable differences and parenting styles being an issue. Custody issue are - like where are the kids now and how is the arrangement going to work? Well, Angelina wants full custody and she wants - she asked for physical custody, I should say, and shared visitation rights. And so Pitt is granted visitation rights. And they're trying to work that out.

How long it could drag out? I don't think anyone wants to see it get ugly. Laura Waszer (ph) is representing Angelina. She's a high-profile attorney specializing in celebrity divorce cases. She handled a number of high-profile clients with big net worth discussions, including Heidi Klum, Kim Kardashian, Ryan Reynolds, Mariah Carey, Stevie Wonder and the last goes on and on.

[14:30:10] BALDWIN: Wow.

LOPEZ: So it's sad to see because...