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Violence after Cop Kills Black Man; Candidates on Shootings. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 21, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:03] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

We begin with the shooting of another African-American man in this country at the hands of police. Two very different stories here. We'll walk you through both. But, first of all, his name, Keith Lamont Scott. He was 43. His death has fueled violent protests in the streets of yet another American city. This one, Charlotte, North Carolina.

Some of these protesters turn on police. Sixteen officers injured in total. Several vehicles damaged. Fires were lit. Looting breaking out. Police releasing tear gas canisters just to try to disperse some of these crowds.

Charlotte police say Scott was armed. They say they have recovered a handgun from the scene. But Scott's family says this father of seven was carrying only a book when he was shot by a police officer, who, in this case, is also black.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My gosh, y'all, look. The police just shot my daddy four times for being black. They Tased him first and then shot him. Talk about he got a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gun. They just shot my daddy. My daddy is dead! They just shot my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) dad! They just shot my daddy! He's dead! My daddy is dead! What did he do? What did he do? (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Those harrowing cries, that is Scott's daughter. The video there, she live streamed on FaceBook. That was the moment she learned her father was dead.

So joining me now, Nick Valencia. He is live in Charlotte for us.

As I mentioned off the top, Nick, two wildly different versions of events. How is the police version being received where you are?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, there appears to be an intense amount of distrust among members of the public here with the Charlotte Police Department. Two competing narratives, one released by the police department, what they say happened, and another competing storyline by the family of Keith Scott, that man that was shot and killed.

Here's what we know happened according to police. At about 4:00 p.m. yesterday, they were at an apartment complex serving a warrant against somebody totally different than Mr. Scott. That's when they saw Mr. Scott in a car come out with a handgun. He got back in the car. And according to police, reemerged from that car holding a handgun. The police, they say, feared for their lives and that he was an imminent danger to them. That's when at least one officer opened fire after they say Mr. Scott did not comply with their demands to drop the weapon.

Now, it was just shortly after that shooting happened that Mr. Scott's daughter took to FaceBook to stream a live video and in it, it is just an incredibly raw emotional account. She finds out that her father had been shot and killed during the moment that she was streaming the live video and she says that her father was a disabled man waiting for one of his sons to get dropped off by a school bus and that he was not in possession of a gun, that he didn't even own a gun, that he had a book in his hand, and that's what he was holding. The police chief, at a press conference earlier today, addressed the allegations being made by the Scott family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF KERR PUTNEY, CHARLOTTE-MECKLENBURG POLICE: I can also tell you we did not find a book that has been made referenced to. I can just tell you what I know based on what we've gathered through the scientific process of going through the evidence and we did find a weapon and the weapon was there and the witnesses corroborated it, too, beyond just the officers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: That video that was posted by Mr. Scott's daughter went viral and has been viewed now hundreds of thousands of times. And as that video was out there on social media, more and more people started to emerge, confronting police officers. Those protests turned violent last night with at least 16 officers from Charlotte being injured. There were, according to local affiliates, at least five people arrested, tear gas canisters were deployed, a part of I-85, one of the two main thoroughfares into Charlotte, was shut down briefly by a group of demonstrators and protesters.

And we want to read a bit of a statement here issued by the attorney general with this tension just being all the more evident in this community as the hours have gone by. The attorney general, Roy Cooper, in North Carolina saying that there needs to be a "thorough investigation to find truth and make sure justice is done." But, Brooke, there are members in this community that just don't believe what the police are saying and, more importantly, just don't trust the cops here.

Brooke. BALDWIN: We are learning more. Nick, thank you so much.

The officer who shot Keith Lamont Scott is now on paid administrative leave. Officer Brentley Vinson joined the Charlotte-Mecklenburg force two years ago. This is a photo of him. This is from Liberty University, a Christian school, where he played football for a couple of years and majored in criminal justice. Vinson then went on to join the Carolina Panthers before he became a police officer.

[14:05:07] And my next guest here knows Officer Vinson. Michael Scurlock is a former NFL player there in Charlotte, former deputy sheriff who ran for sheriff in York County, South Carolina.

Michael, thank you so, so much for being with me today.

MICHAEL SCURLOCK, FRIEND OF CHARLOTTE OFFICE WHO SHOT NC MAN: Brooke, thank you for having me on.

BALDWIN: I know that you know Officer Vinson personally. Tell me how you know him.

SCURLOCK: Well, Vinson and I, we shared a Bible study together. It was a current and former NFL Bible study that's held once every Thursday of the month, and that's the way we met, through Bible study.

BALDWIN: Tell me about him.

SCURLOCK: Well, he's a great person. You know, he's a family man. I know he's recently gotten married I think within the last year, year and a half. But he's - I've only known great things about Brent.

BALDWIN: So you have this football tie but you also have this unique law enforcement tie. And I'm curious, in the time that you've known him, have you ever had any conversations with him about police, you know, excessive use of force, black men being killed in this country?

SCURLOCK: No, we never had those type of topics within our discussion, but what I've known with Brent and I, we've talked about certain things that we may have had to deal with while we're on the road, just having the opportunity to impact other people's lives while we're on the road, while we're doing that particular profession. But never in depth to where we're talking about actually having an encounter or take someone else's life.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you, Michael, as someone who's lived in Charlotte for a while, I mean, you've heard both sides of this story as far as what happened. You know, his family, the victim's family says it was a book that he had, he was reading a book. You know, police say, no, it wasn't a book. They haven't found a book. He had a gun. I mean what do you make of these two totally different narratives?

SCURLOCK: Well, I think that's why it's always important for us to wait and find out all the details in a particular case. At this point in time, I have not seen any video, dash cam video, any cameras, shots of as far as what took place. And I think the majority of the public I believe feels the same. But I think it's always best before we make any rush decisions to find out exactly all the details of what took place.

BALDWIN: The officer I know wasn't in uniform, didn't have a body camera, although others were around him in uniform perhaps did. But can you understand, because there is this lack of video, why folks in the community are skeptical of police and their story?

SCURLOCK: Well, of course. I think when you see video, actual video, where things have taken place and then you see where police officers have been discredited by what is even shown on the video, I can see why there's distrust in the community. However, I've had an opportunity to listen to Chief Putney. He came to our church a couple of times and he spoke. And, you know, I just - I believe that he wants the right - the right thing for - not only for his department, but for the community of Charlotte. So I believe, at the end of this, all - everything will be brought to light and those individuals - and I think everything will work itself out.

BALDWIN: You know, you mentioned the chief of Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department, who is African-American. The officer who you know, who shot and killed this man, African-American. A lot of folk are obviously talking about white officers killing unarmed black men. But in this case, it is different. Do you think that matters?

SCURLOCK: Well, I don't think it matters. Any time a life is taken, you know, I think both sides are torn. I know the families are torn of the life that was taken. I know the officer is torn because he had to take someone's life. You know, I've never met any individual, any officer, that goes on a daily basis and says, hey, I'm looking to take someone's life. So I know having the opportunity to speak with Brent Vinson, that - just last night and, you know, he's distraught.

BALDWIN: You talked to him just last night?

SCURLOCK: Just last night. And I know he's torn. And, you know, any time, no matter if it's justified or unjustified, it's tough when you have to know that you had to take someone else's life.

BALDWIN: Wow, I was told you hadn't talked to him. So you have talked to him. This is news. So what did he tell you?

SCURLOCK: Well, without going into great detail, I can tell you that, you know, it was - it was - it's nothing easy. It's nothing easy. And I know that he expressed that through the emotions of his voice over the phone. And it was a very brief, short conversation, but I assured him that, you know, as much as, you know, our community is praying for the loss of Mr. Scott as well, we'll also be praying for him as well. And I believe he has a strong support within the community, as well as the Scott family as well. So this, at some point in time, will all be resolved and brought to light.

[14:10:16] BALDWIN: I don't want to pry too much more in to what I know what was a private conversation, but all these protests. I mean, Michael, I mean all these - and these officers injured, shutting down I-85. Did he at all - did the officer at all comment on the, you know, outrage in the wake of what happened?

SCURLOCK: Well, you know, I didn't - I didn't - Brooke, I didn't - I didn't ask him.

BALDWIN: OK.

SCURLOCK: I didn't push that just because the sensitive nature of where he was at this point in time of this night, and I didn't want to ask real sensitive questions like that. I wanted him to have time to just spend with his family as well. And I just let him know that he and - that I'm here, along with my family and others are here to support him and just have him in our prayers as well

BALDWIN: Yes. Well, Michael, let me ask you about the protests. You've seen the pictures and we also heard from black leaders in Charlotte this morning, you know, pastors, members of NAACP, and one in particular, let me play this sound, specifically is calling for an economic boycott. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. B.J. MURPHY, NATION OF ISLAM: So I say, take your money out of North Lake Mall, take your money out of South Park Mall, take your money out of the epicenter. Hell, let's don't even have the CIAA this year. How are you going to party, have a drink in your hand and we ain't getting no damn justice in here? Let everyone feel the pain economically of what we're feeling physically when you kill us.

So that's what we - we are calling for. We're calling for an economic boycott in the city of Charlotte. Don't spend no money with no white folks that don't respect us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Michael, would you support that? Do you think that's effective?

SCURLOCK: Well, Brooke, again, I think individuals have a right to do what they would like to do. However boycotting - again, that had to be a personal choice. But I think the biggest thing here is that we want to find - you know, one of the persons that I respect the most, who you've had on your show, was Benjamin Watson. I've had an opportunity to listen to him. He's so grounded and he thinks objectively and he's open minded to - and it truly is a hard issue. And I think until we get to the point where we can sit down and really just have great topics and discuss some of the indifferences that we all have, then we'll continue to stay where we are. But I think until we get to that point, I think that's where we'll have an opportunity to grow as a country.

BALDWIN: So is that a no, perhaps, on the notion? I mean essentially this pastor is saying, you know, we don't want to put our black dollars into a city because we're feeling so much pain. So at least the sort of pain that we can put on you is economic. Do you understand why they're calling for that?

SCURLOCK: Well - well, here's the thing. If I give a yes answer, you can be wrong. If I give a no answer, you can be wrong. That is - those individuals - those - BALDWIN: There is no right or wrong, Michael, I just value your opinion. That's all it is.

SCURLOCK: Exactly. Exactly. And that person, and those individuals, have a right to do what they feel is right in their heart.

Now, with that said, they may not feel the same way tomorrow or the next day, or two days, or four or five days from now, because right now there are a lot of emotions I think that are just in the Carolinas right now.

BALDWIN: Streaming through their veins.

SCURLOCK: Exactly.

BALDWIN: Right. Right.

Shannon Sharpe, he's a former NFL player. He was on the radio recently and he - this is before this happened in Charlotte, before what happened in Tulsa, but still it's been in the bloodstream in this country. And this - this is what he said. Essentially it's advice to white people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANNON SHARPE, NFL COMMENTATOR: I see a guy selling CDs and he's killed. I see a guy selling loose leaf cigarettes and he's killed. See, that's what gets us up in arms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I should.

SHARPE: Because you say non-compliance is a death sentence. We see what happened in Colorado. The guy killed 12 and they take him alive. We see what happened in north - in Charleston. What, nine parishioners, he drives, not only do they take him alive, they take him by Burger King because he's hungry. So you think we're supposed to be OK with this?

Don't tell us what to grieve for and don't tell us how long we should grieve. Oh, slavery happened, you - oh, and I'm like, hold on, wait a minute. It happened. It existed. I said I've never heard a person tell a Jewish person the Holocaust - you weren't in the Holocaust. Your mom - they don't say that. But they tell - oh, you're black? Get over slavery. Your mom wasn't in slavery. You wasn't a slave.

No, hear me. I'm trying to have a conversation because this is what will happen. The peaceful protests - we'll try a peaceful route, like Colin Kaepernick sitting down or taking a knee. And then when you won't listen, we'll make you hear us. You have a Ferguson, you have a Baltimore, or you have a Watts (ph) in the '60s, you don't want that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:15:06] BALDWIN: You can feel the passion in his voice, Michael. And then just to add to that, you know, the fact that this accused bomber out of New Jersey and New York, you see the video of this guy shot in the arm and wheeled away alive. This is a suspected terrorist who wanted to kill, according to the charges. How do you see all of this?

SCURLOCK: Well, I think we have - I think someone said before we have the Constitution. The Constitution will exercise the citizens' rights. However, you have unjustified killings, also, of officers. Now, again, I haven't met an officer who wants to go out and just literally take someone's life. But, again, you have our system, and - and what Sharpe is - is definitely saying is that, yes, we see the same thing as - as we watch a video when you see an officer take an individual's life and it's unjustified. Because there - there are certain steps in the - in the lethal steps that you can take as an officer, hands on, Taser. And so when you see an unjustified killing of - of a black, white, purple, it doesn't matter which color, when you see that unjustified killing, I think it - it's always going to bring out the - the emotions of everybody because we know, as we view it, it's wrong. And it - and I think when - the longer the police, law enforcement, hold on to information that's - that's vital to the - to the public, that's when it gets so - that's when the public gets at discord because they get frustrated because all they want is just information that can help them go about their day and make the appropriate decision and - and have the appropriate feelings towards what took place.

BALDWIN: Michael Scurlock, I appreciate your voice, and I also appreciate our friend Benjamin Watson for connecting us. Thank you very much, in Charlotte.

SCURLOCK: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: You got it.

SCURLOCK: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up next here, when Don King drops the "n" word inside of a church today while introducing Donald Trump, have you seen this? This is after Trump says Afghanistan is safer than America's inner cities. We're going to have a big old discussion there.

Also, more breaking news. The FBI now looking for these two men, the ones who found the bomb in one of the New York City locations. And new video shows scorch marks in the suspect's backyard. We've got a lot to talk about today.

I'm Brooke Baldwin and this is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:21:39] BALDWIN: Couple days away from that very first presidential debate here in New York and there is something that is pervasive across this country, something that a lot of folks are talking about. Two black men, two more at the end of a long list, dead after interactions with police officers. We now have reaction today from both presidential candidates.

Let's talk about this with former Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter, he is also a CNN political contributor and Hillary Clinton supporter, and also from Chicago, Brunell Donald-Kyei, vice chair of diversity outreach for the National Diversity Coalition for Trump.

So, thank you both so much for being with me.

BRUNELL DONALD-KYEI, NATIONAL DIVERSITY COALITION FOR TRUMP: Thank you so much for having us, Brooke.

BALDWIN: You got it.

MICHAEL NUTTER, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Let's first get to some of the reaction. This is Hillary Clinton tweeting some of the names here, "Keith Lamont Scott. Terence Crutcher. Too many others. This has got to end." And then from Donald Trump, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: This young officer, I don't know what she was thinking. I don't know she was thinking. But I'm very, very troubled by that. I'm very, very troubled by that. And we have to be very - we have to be very careful.

So, I mean, these things are terrible. That was, in my opinion, that was a terrible - a terrible situation. And we've seen others. We've seen others. And the police are aware of that, too. By the way, the police are troubled by it, too. They look at it.

Now, did she get scared? Was she choking? What happened? But maybe people like that, people that choke, people that do that, maybe they can't be doing what they're doing, OK? They can't be doing what they're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, Mayor Nutter, first just to you. You know, this is - he is the self-proclaimed law and order candidate.

NUTTER: Yes.

BALDWIN: He is - he's speaking to a black church today saying that she, this officer in Tulsa, choked.

NUTTER: Yes.

BALDWIN: How do you (INAUDIBLE) that?

NUTTER: I mean it's more of the chameleon like kind of response from Donald Trump. You know, first and foremost, you know, our hearts go out to the Crutcher family. And I don't know all the details involving Keith Scott. But at the end of the day, two different incidents with the same outcome. Two black men dead, different circumstances, different situations. But, you know, I doubt that Mr. Trump would say that were he at a law enforcement meeting, he'd have a different tune. He's pandering to the black community. BALDWIN: Let's ask - let's ask Brunell. Brunell, you just heard the mayor call Donald Trump a chameleon and that he wouldn't - he would have a different thing to say if he was speaking in front of law enforcement.

DONALD-KYEI: You know, Donald Trump is the law and order candidate, but I believe that he's made it clear that, you know, if you're a rogue police officer, if you're out there committing crimes, then you have to come to justice just like anyone that is being accused of a crime. I believe that, you know, as Mr. Trump believes that, you know, police officers are hardworking, they'll go out and do their jobs, and then you have these - these nuts, these nuts that are - you know, have you ever had a, you know, a bag of nuts and then you taste one and then it can ruin the whole bag? You have it like that. It's a -

BALDWIN: Are we doing the Skittles nuts things? I don't think we should - I don't think we should equate people -

DONALD-KYEI: No, no, no, not Skittles. We're - this is a whole nother - whole nother situation here. What I'm saying is, it only takes one -

BALDWIN: Are you calling the officer a potentially bad nut?

DONALD-KYEI: What - exactly. What I'm saying is, you got most officers are out there doing their job serving and protecting, and then you have that small percentage of officers that are out there just rogue and making the entire force look bad. It's just like sometimes, Brooke, in your field, in journalism, you have some journalists that are neutral and they report the news as it comes, and then you have the ones that put their opinion in. It's no different here. Donald Trump has made it clear, as you heard him speaking to that audience, that he is not in agreement with what this officer did.

[14:25:26] BALDWIN: Care to respond, Mr. Mayor?

NUTTER: Yes. I, first and foremost, we don't - I don't know anything about the officer, so I'm not going to try to, you know, ascribe any motive or anything else to the officer. There are larger issues here, Brooke, about training, about de-escalation, about use of force policies. There are 18,000 police departments across the United States of America, all with varying levels of training and experience for the officers.

BALDWIN: You would know coming from all your years in Philly.

NUTTER: Yes. And so when you look at 21st century policing task force, headed by former Police Commissioner Ramsey out of Philadelphia, how is that report being implemented in police departments all across the United States of America? When do you use use of force?

DONALD-KYEI: Well, you know what else also -

NUTTER: Why are you using your weapons as a first choice as opposed to a Taser?

DONALD-KYEI: Also to here (ph), we're (INAUDIBLE) - NUTTER: Or your (INAUDIBLE) or your stick or something like that.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Brunell.

DONALD-KYEI: Absolutely. You know, I'm dealing with a case right now - I have a civil case that I'm fighting, Hazel Jones Huff (ph), a 91- year-old client of mine, African-American woman, was shot by an African-American police officer here two times in Chicago while she was unarmed. And basically what we're arguing is that, that's excessive use of force when you, a police officer, have a weapon and you're using that gun on an unarmed individual, in our case a 91-year- old woman. And so definitely it's a discussion that has to be talked about. We have to get to the root of the matter, what is going on that you have this small percentage of officers using excessive force against our people, or the - whether it be poor people, white, black, Spanish, they're using this excessive force and they're not being punished. Something isn't right.

BALDWIN: You know, on that note of what's going on in our inner cities, you know, you're sitting there in Chicago -

DONALD-KYEI: Yes.

BALDWIN: And specifically with the black communities we have heard - let me just play some sound.

DONALD-KYEI: Yes.

BALDWIN: First you're going to hear from President Obama. This was over the weekend when he was speaking at the Congressional Black Caucus Gala. Then you'll hear from Donald Trump. This is from just last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You may have heard Hillary's opponent in this election say that there's never been a worse time to be a black person. I may - he missed that whole civics lesson about slavery and Jim Crow and -

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Our African-American communities are absolutely in the worst shape that they've ever been in before ever, ever, ever. I mean, honestly, places like Afghanistan are safer than some of our inner cities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Brunell, ever, ever, ever?

DONALD-KYEI: Yes. You know what, that general - I don't like generalizations, Brooke, but what I will tell you is that in Chicago, the problem that we're dealing with is very serious. We've got, as you know, 3,000 shootings in Chicago. Mostly African-Americans shot dead. We're dealing with this. It's become an epidemic.

And then you've got to think about it. I live in Chicago. You've got k-town (ph) and Englewood and Roseland and things like that. I don't know what areas the president is talking about, but we've got a lot of crime going on over here on Central and Madison and on 79th Street in different areas and it's a very real problem.

BALDWIN: I -

DONALD-KYEI: Brooke, even the people getting shot on the expressway coming out of Starbucks. If you read the news, those things are happening in Chicago. And also with respect to poverty, you know, there's a lot of people choosing between rent and, you know, baby milk or their car note or how they're going to pay their bills. And so that is a very real problem. Twenty-five percent poverty rate. People are dealing with (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: I believe you, Brunell. You are there. I 100 percent believe you.

DONALD-KYEI : Yes, every day, watching it, Brooke, up close and personal.

BALDWIN: But, again, you know, you go back to this point, Mr. Mayor, of ever, ever, ever.

NUTTER: Yes, I mean, it just demonstrates the lack of knowledge and information and any kind of understand that Mr. Trump has of African- Americans, Latino community, communities of color. Of course there are problems and challenges, small, medium and large cities all across the United States of America. But to make such a blatant wrong statement and smear everyone in the black community in that way demonstrates again his unfitness for this kind of position, this kind of leadership and it's just insulting to the African-American community.

DONALD-KYEI: That is absolutely unequivocally not what the man said. He did not smear the entire black community. What he's talking about that pocket of community, 25 percent that are living in degradation, dodging bullets, trying to make it, trying to feed their families.

[14:30:05] NUTTER: He said the black community. Watch the tape.

DONALD-KYEI: Well, you know what, like I said, I don't believe in generalizations, but I believe that the people that - that Donald Trump is talking to