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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Riots in Charlotte After Shooting; FBI Seeks Two Men Who Found Chelsea Bomb. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired September 21, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:28] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

Charlotte, North Carolina, today large parts of the city still echoing with a familiar refrain, "no justice, no peace."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of here, boy!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: People in Charlotte shouting and much worse, getting violent as well. Their anger pointed directly at police officers.

It was the very emotional time shortly after police shot and killed a man in Charlotte they say would not drop a gun despite their repeated commands. In the past couple of hours, it's been quite illuminating. We've heard from the victim's family. We've heard from the Charlotte Police Department, from community activists, from the NAACP, even witnesses as to what exactly happened yesterday. So, stay right there. You're going to get the full picture as we have it today at this time.

But, right now, here's where we are. This is the man who died from police gunshot wounds, Keith Lamont Scott. His family says this, that he was sitting in his car reading a book. Officers approached and shot him. Charlotte Police say that is not exactly what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF KERR PUTNEY, CHARLOTTE-MECKLENBURG, NC POLICE DEPARTMENT: Mr. Scott, as I said, exited his vehicle armed with a handgun as the officers continued to yell at him to drop it. He stepped out, posing a threat to the officers and Officer Brentley Vinson subsequently fired his weapon striking the subject.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I want to go straight to Charlotte right now where CNN's Ed Lavandera is standing by live. Very different versions of what ended up as a death. So how is the latest, the police version being received in Charlotte, Ed?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that news is starting to trickle out throughout much of the city, but it is a - in stark contrast to what family members of Mr. Scott were saying yesterday. So it will be interesting to see how this plays out throughout the rest of the day as people hear about the police version of what happened in that apartment complex parking lot. Officers were there to serve a warrant on a totally different person when they came into this shooting situation with Mr. Scott. So things clearly changed dramatically.

We've learned a little bit about the officer. As you heard the police chief there mention, the officer is Brentley Vinson. We've found a picture of him. We understand of officers here in Charlotte aren't releasing much information, saying it's a personnel matter so they won't release a lot of details about his - any kind of disciplinary action he might have had in the past. But from what we've been able to gather here this morning, he's a young officer, had been with the Charlotte Police Department about - since 2014. He played football at Liberty University from 2009 to 2012 where he also majored in criminal justice.

So we spoke with a couple of his teammates that played on that football team with him who described the officer as a stand-up guy. But as you saw last night, the news of this shooting spread quickly throughout the community. Protests and uprisings throughout various parts of the neighborhood and activists have a message for the police department here as this investigation moves forward.

BANFIELD: All right, Ed Lavandera reporting for us live from Charlotte. Thank you for that.

I want to play something for you now that is - I mean there's no other way to explain this. It is heartbreaking to hear this. I'm going to play you some video that the shooting victim, Keith Lamont Scott, his daughter, video of his daughter, the moment that she found out that her father had been killed. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They just shot my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) daddy. My daddy is dead! They just shot my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) daddy! They just shot my daddy! He's dead. My daddy is dead! My daddy is dead! My daddy is dead! (EXPLETIVE DELETED). My daddy is dead! My daddy is dead! My daddy is dead! (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: There is one other thing that we want you to see, and we want you to hear, a protestors in Charlotte last night. Her raw and emotional thoughts.

[12:05:03] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But as far as my child, my nephews, I am concerned, I'm worried about them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) this is my brother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something has to be done.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a problem.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whether it's our city leaders. Whether it's our state leaders. These presidential candidates that are coming on to the scene. Something has to be done. There was a terrorist, New Jersey, New York, he was taken alive. They said they wanted to question him. So because of you wanting to question him, does his life mean more than our black men across the nation? It doesn't make any sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: With me now in Charlotte, Willie Ratchford. He is the chairman of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Community Relations Committee.

Mr. Ratchford, thanks so much for being with me right now. I wanted to just get your reaction as the news comes in quickly, the latest developments or what the police gave as the explanation of what happened yesterday. Is it satisfactory to you? How is it sitting with your community?

WILLIE RATCHFORD, EXEC. DIR., CHARLOTTE-MECKLENBURG COMMUNITY RELATIONS CMTE.: Right now there's a lot of concern in the community regarding this particular incident. However, I feel confident that the police department and the other investigative authorities will do the necessary things to get to the bottom of this.

Right now I'm asking that calmer heads would prevail. Allow those authorities to complete their investigations and let's - let's make our decisions with regards to how we react to this incident based on facts.

BANFIELD: So, some of the activists and protestors have said that there is going to be more violence. There will be more unrest unless there is, quote, "transparency." But today is that not something they would consider transparency for now? I mean we all have to wait on an investigation. And I'm wondering if that is going to be something the community can wait for?

RATCHFORD: It is my hope that they would be patient - that the community would be patient and be willing to wait. As you know, this type of investigation might take some time. And you just don't - no one wants to rush to judgment, especially those who might be doing the investigation. There are lots of witnesses to talk to. There's information to be gathered. And the police department in this community wants to make sure that we have everything right before additional information is let out to the community.

BANFIELD: Willie Ratchford, I appreciate your time. Certainly as developments come in, this is a - this is what we call a breaking story. There are developments. And we also have this breaking news to bring to you. And it's related

to the bombings in New York and New Jersey. The FBI is now asking for additional help in finding two people. The two people on your screen. The police are being careful to say they are not suspected right now of doing anything wrong, but that these two unknown individuals could have information, hence the request seeking information.

I want to get right to our justice correspondent, Pamela Brown, with more.

We all thought this might be over with, done with. Lots of evidence. Charges already filed against Ahmed Rahami. But now two more people are being sought? What are the details?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. So, Ashleigh, the FBI wants the public's help identifying these two unknown individuals because surveillance video shows them allegedly identifying a piece of luggage on 27th Street in the hour that the bomb went off on 23rd Street. And then opening up that piece of luggage and removing the pressure cooker, that improvised explosive device, from the luggage and then the FBI says the surveillance video shows them leaving the vicinity and leaving that device behind, but taking the luggage with them. And so the FBI says it's interested in speaking to these two men right here and also recovering the luggage because, of course, that would be evidence. And important to emphasize, as you said, Ashleigh, the FBI is not calling these two men suspects but, of course, they are critical people to speak with given the fact that these two men had contact with the explosive device and took the luggage with them.

Now, just two days ago, Ashleigh, the FBI investigators addressed these two men, basically saying that surveillance video showed them walking up and down 7th Avenue. And then when they removed the device from the luggage, they looked incredulous, according to investigators, but they also went on to say they can't say right now if they played a role or not. But, again, the FBI not calling them suspects. We know that the main suspect, Ahmad Rahami, is charged, as we know. But, of course, it's still a very active investigation and the FBI wants to interview everyone it can in order to make sure that it puts all the pieces of the puzzle together.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So I'm completely clear, Pamela, these are the two men who, on videotape, were seen taking the white garbage bag out of the duffel at the 27th Street location. That's the second location that did not explode. And that they are the two - excuse me - that they are the two who were seen walking away with the duffel bag having taken the garbage bag containing the - Pamela, I'm going to interrupt for just a moment.

[12:10:03] BROWN: Yes.

BANFIELD: We're going to go live to New York. The police department apparently speaking. JIM WATERS, NYPD COUNTERTERRORISM BUREAU CHIEF: And it shows that they - they were out walking along the street. They saw the bag on the sidewalk. They admired the bag. They opened the bag. They removed what turned out to be a device, a pressure cooker, and placed it on the sidewalk and they rolled the bag away, or carried the bag away on the street.

So we're very much interested into speaking to them, finding out a little bit more about who they are. They are witnesses. There are no criminal charges. They are not in any jeopardy of being arrested. So if you can help us find them or anybody else can tell us who they are, we'd be very interested to speak to them.

Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll take some questions on that particular topic and then we'll (INAUDIBLE).

Tony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's about a two week period there.

QUESTION: All right, (INAUDIBLE). The pressure cooker that was disturbed, was it the act of disturbing it? Did that, in any way, neutralize the condition of the device (INAUDIBLE)?

WATERS: So we can speculate that, but we don't know that for sure. We know that when we took the - we took that device up to the outdoor range, the bomb squad rendered it safe that day. We did, through some of our procedure, we removed the telephone off of that by robot in the street. So we know for sure that we disrupted it at that point. Not necessarily rendering it safe. And then it was safely removed to the bomb squad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

QUESTION: Yes, (INAUDIBLE), how far along were you able to track these two gentlemen on video or any kind of security cameras?

WATERS: Great question. That is ongoing. We're continuing to look through our LMSI and all the detective bureau with the detective bureau's assistance, they're going out the old-fashioned way, on the street, knocking on doors asking people if they have video. We don't have all the video from all those stores that migrate back to LMSI, but our LMSI cameras show quite a bit of - not only the subject, the target of this investigation, Mr. Rahami, but also these two individuals. So we've tracked them through several blocks on different cameras along the way.

QUESTION: And at what time did they find the (INAUDIBLE)? WATERS: So we know that the - the device was - that device on 27th Street was placed there sometime just after 8:30 p.m. And shortly thereafter, these individuals came by and took the bag.

QUESTION: Do you think they're connected in any way?

WATERS: We have no reason to believe that they're connected. That's why, as I've said, and I can't stress enough, they are witnesses at this time.

QUESTION: Can - can you talk about, when they take the pressure cooker out, because when we all look at the photo, it looks like a bomb with tape and wires and all. Did it seem like they realized that it was a pressure cooker and it looked like a bomb in your video?

WATERS: Well, we look at the video. We see them take it out. I think they were more interested, quite frankly, in the bag, and not what they were taking out. It would be purely speculative. We really would look forward to talking to them and asking them what they thought as they were doing that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.

QUESTION: I'm sorry, could - (INAUDIBLE) you believe they are witnesses. Can you say any more about why they may not be considered accomplices, and where are you in the investigation in terms of whether Rahami acted alone?

WATERS: So as you can appreciate, this is an active and ongoing matter. We are looking at a number of people who were conducting a number of interviews. The lab is - in Quantico is doing all of their testing and analysis and providing results up to the investigators. So that is an ongoing piece. We're doing - we continue to do video surveillance canvases to develop more video on not only Mr. Rahami, but these two individuals, trying to put all that together. There are a number of leads that have come in that the investigators are running down. I think we're well over 100 leads from the public, which is very much appreciated. And so this is very much an active and ongoing matter.

QUESTION: Chief, so this - yesterday the complaint was filed and it was released and it's very sensitive. It's the first time that we get to really see (INAUDIBLE) all this came together. So I want you to talk about the (INAUDIBLE) - were you surprised of how quickly everything kind of came together and sort of talk about (INAUDIBLE) it just seems like there's a lot of (INAUDIBLE).

WATERS: I've been in the department for 35 years. I've been doing this job since 2003. So, no, I'm not - the short answer, I'm not surprised at the talent and experience of the members of the JTTF, the FBI, the Detective Bureau are. Simply outstanding. In 50 hours we were able to identify and apprehend this individual, thank God.

QUESTION: Chief, do you have some more information on these two as far as a description, height, weight, ethnic background? [12:15:05} WATERS: Just what you see here in the poster. That's a

pretty good facial view of both of them. We - we don't even know if they're aware of this. But there's been -- you know, if they're not plunged into - to this matter. So - Evan?

QUESTION: Is it your impression that they easily could have set this thing off and - by (INAUDIBLE)?

WATERS: You know, it was a very - shock-sensitive device that we were very concerned. Obviously we handled it a certain way out in the street and we handled it a certain way up - up at Rodman's Neck in the bomb squad. So it would be speculative, but they're very, very lucky.

QUESTION: Can you describe the bag, what these men took?

WATERS: It's a -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's an airplane tote, both bags that we see here. This individual, Mr. Rahami, carrying. This one was - had a certain design on it. The other one was a darker bag he left on 23rd Street. And it's one of those wheel - casters on the bottom with a retractable handle that you would see anybody carrying onto an airplane. That's what it looks like from our - from our view right now.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) hope to (INAUDIBLE)?

WATERS: It's part of our investigation. It's part of the evidence and where it goes and what's in there. It has to be identified. So it could be a - a rich environment to pull - to pull other things from it. We don't know. We don't know exactly what they did. We need to speak to these individuals.

QUESTION: Can you tell us anything more about (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do we want to talk about that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think we do.

(INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, director.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rich?

QUESTION: So if these guys see their own picture on television, what do you suggest they do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Call Chief Boyce (ph).

All right. Go down to the - go down to the precinct. Call 911. You know, and we'll - we'll come and pick them up and, you know, and talk to them. And again they're -

QUESTION: They're not in any trouble, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're, at this point, they're witnesses. QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) worried that they would be (INAUDIBLE) took the

bag (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I don't think they need to worry about that, Marsha. They don't need to worry about taking the bag.

All right, hold on. One at a time. One at a time.

QUESTION: Can you talk about where, if these gentlemen (INAUDIBLE). And the second part of the question is, if you expect (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bill or Jim, you want to talk about that a little bit?

WATERS: So I'll - we really can't discuss all of where we got all of the different video of piecing the video together, block by block, if you will. He is still hasn't - he's still in - not cleared by the doctors who are ready to speak to him. Of course he's not medically cleared so that we can speak to him just yet. That may happen in the next 24 hours or so depending on the doctors' approval.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Wait. Can you - can you talk about what materiel you found with the other bombs and do you anticipate or do you believe that there were - there's other evidence they might have taken the bag (INAUDIBLE)?

WATERS: So I don't know what else might have been in the bag. As far as any of the other - the components in all, I just have to refer you back to the complaint at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jake.

QUESTION: Yes. Are you closer, sir, to understanding why he chose that particular area?

WATERS: No, we're not.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE). The complaint makes mention of a (INAUDIBLE). Can you give us any more details of what he might have been doing at the time? Where he was (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want to - I don't want to talk about the facts in the complaint. I think the - I forget which time I was here, but I mentioned we (INAUDIBLE) and I mentioned address histories that we knew about throughout New Jersey. So that led us to (INAUDIBLE), as we did all different pieces of information, we're looking at different residences, different places of business. It sort of goes back to your question about why the bag is important. Who bought the bag? Where was it shipped to? There's all sorts of leads and traces that come from that kind of stuff. But, other than that, I won't comment on the complaint.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE), can I just ask one last question before you go away. How - how easy is it to buy these sort of explosives? The complaint says he bought them on eBay. Can you talk about how easy it is and how people can go about this with such ease? I mean he did such - such big damage by stuff he bought on eBay. If you can just explain that and how that works and how people are capable of buying this stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a - there's a lot - I don't think I want to get into the technical, technical issues around that. There's obviously household items that people can turn into bad things. And NYPD and Jersey state police have huge trip wire programs to alert the public to different things like that. I think Nexus (ph) - it's still called Nexus and Shield (ph) and all those things that the PD here does to educate the public, educate businesses on all sorts of things that they use for nefarious purposes. It's awesome. So, yes, they can be turned into evil things, but that's why we have programs the NOPDs (ph).

[12:20:23] QUESTION: Was the van that they - so was it abandoned in anyway? Did you know from any video or any kind of surveillance and (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we haven't - if you're asking if we recovered the bag? We have not recovered the bag. I don't think I want to go into what the surveillance video shows, especially because I want to talk - we want to talk to witnesses. I don't want to taint and pre-put in their head what we already know. It puts the investigators and the detectives in the best position possible to draw the information out from an individual rather than give it to them first.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) trigger any alerts or any (INAUDIBLE) things that (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not to my knowledge, but there are so many things going on in different aspects and different investigative teams are on the case, but not to my knowledge.

QUESTION: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, Bill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) other police related topics (INAUDIBLE).

BANFIELD: Third day on the job for that New York City Police Commission James O'Neill, and, boy, what a doozy. I mean he has been handling one of the biggest New York City stories in quite some time and the bombing suspect not only having laid two bombs allegedly in the Chelsea area, but then being chased down to a shootout in New Jersey resulting in not only attempted murder charges of police officers, but terrorism charges in the New York district federally and the New Jersey district federally.

Our justice correspondent Pamela Brown has been following all aspects and then today, I'm going to bring in Phil Mudd in a moment as well, and I'm also going to talk to James Gagliano (ph) . But, Pam, first to you, just to get clear on this information, those two guys, according to police, have no concern about being arrested. They are not considered suspects. They are wanted as witnesses only. Witnesses for more information.

And just before we went to that breaking news conference, I was asking you the question, they're the two who are suspected to have found that rolling airport suitcase, having opened that suitcase and seen the garbage bag containing the pressure cooker bomb inside, and then having taken it out and left with the rolling bag. It's the rolling bag they want, and what they called the rich environment it might actually possess for an investigation, correct?

BROWN: That's right. And they also want to talk to these two men who they repeatedly called witnesses, just to see what they knew. You know, you see them in the surveillance video, according to investigators, around 8:30, locating this bag on the sidewalk and then opening the bag and removing the trash bag with the pressure cooker bomb, and then apparently just walking away with that roller bag, with the luggage that investigators need for evidence.

Now, it's interesting that during this press conference they said that these two men may not even know that the FBI is looking for them. They are not considered suspect. And at one point, one of the investigators said, it's really miraculous that when the men took the bomb out of the bag that didn't go off that basically that they were very lucky for that.

Now, just a couple days ago they talked about these two men and reiterated the fact that they were not suspects and said that in the surveillance video they looked incredulous when they located the bag and opened it. So, again, there's no indication at this point, Ashleigh, that they played any role here, but they are important witnesses and the FBI wants to talk about them. They asked the public to call the FBI's toll free tip line at 1-800-CALL-FBI if anyone sees this and recognizing these men.

BANFIELD: Pamela Brown, thank you for that.

Before I go to my other guests, one of the big pieces of information that we just heard as well, perhaps inadvertently in the New York City police commissioner's news conference, was that the suspect in the bombing cases, not only those two bombing cases in Chelsea, but also in New Jersey, Ahmad Rahami, is not in any condition, medical - he's not medically cleared, I should phrase it, that was the quote used by the commissioner and his colleagues, not medically cleared for questioning yet. Fascinating. But that's the circumstance. So presumably he's still in a hospital bed somewhere with handcuffs still on.

So we're going to ask a little bit about what the significance is of these two new witnesses. Seems like an open and shut case with all the evidence they have. What more could these two provide? And then there is the instances of the charges themselves. Overwhelming. Lifetime of prison could be the sentencing. We're back in a moment.

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[12:28:44] BANFIELD: We've been following the breaking news out of New York. Pretty remarkable that all of a sudden when we thought things were all sewn up, all of a sudden, not so much. Police have put out sort of an APB, so to speak, for information on two men and they put out their image too from surveillance tapes that are being sought in connection with that duffel bag that was found in Chelsea, New York, that contained an unexploded bomb, affectively one of those pressure cooker bombs. The two men who were seen actually walking away from that duffel bag. Those are the men that they want to question.

I want to bring in now Phil Mudd, our CNN counterterrorism analyst and former CIA official, and James Gagliano (ph), who's a former special agent with the FBI.

Phil, first to you. It seemed as though there was just a bucket-load of evidence with what was left behind unexploded to deal with this alleged bomber and certainly the federal charges came down quick. So did the state charges on the attempted murder. But now these two men are sought for additional questioning. Do you think - or at least any information they may have on the duffel bag. Do you think this is just for the forensics the duffel bag might actually yield?

[12:29:52] PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I think there's a broader question here, Ashleigh, and it's a question you face in every case like this. The initial indications are that this individual acted alone. But the hardest thing to do in this case is to prove over the course of weeks and months that you can guarantee that nobody else either acted with this individual or knew what he was up to. Remember the characteristics of cases like this. Where did he get his money?