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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Protests After Charlotte Shooting; Second Night of Violence in Charlotte; Police Chief Not Releasing Video of Shooting. Aired 12- 12:30p ET

Aired September 22, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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And thank you all so much for joining us AT THIS HOUR.

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BERMAN: "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield, live from Charlotte, starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They just started shooting tear gas. Oh, man. Oh, my eyes.

MAYOR JENNIFER ROBERTS, CHARLOTTE: It's a tragic time for our city. I'm asking for calm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We responded in a way that was frustrated and upset, telling America this is enough. (INAUDIBLE), man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This started as a peaceful protest. People are now kicking the tear gas at the police officers. Things spiraled out of control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield, live in Charlotte, North Carolina. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW. We are on location because yet again a toxic blend of resentment and fear and distrust on the parts of some citizens towards their police force, and it has blown up into violence. This time, it's Charlotte, a major, modern, American city under an official state of emergency after a second night of rage arising from the shooting death of an African- American man by the Charlotte Police.

For roughly seven hours last night and early this morning, protesters in the city's uptown district threw rocks, set fires, smashed windows, smashed cars and police fought back with tear gas. One person was shot under circumstances not yet clear, and is said to be in critical condition. Police say two officers suffered relatively minor eye injuries.

We heard from Charlotte's mayor and police chief late this morning. I want you to hear what Chief Kerr Putney said about that critical dash cam or body cam video that may have recorded the killing of Keith Lamont Scott on Tuesday. Police have said that Scott brandished a gun when he was approached by officers. Scott's family denies that. Listen also to the chief's insistent that at least for now that video will not be released to the public.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF KERR PUTNEY, CHARLOTTE-MECKLENBURG POLICE: What I can tell you that I saw, and I was very clear when I talked about this before, is the video does not give me absolute definitive visual evidence that -- that would confirm that a person is pointing a gun. I did not see that in the videos that I've reviewed.

So what I can tell you, though, is when taken in the totality of all of the other evidence, it supports what we've heard and the version of the truth that we gave about the circumstance that happened that led to the death of Mr. Scott.

But I never said full transparency. I said transparency and transparency's in the eye of the beholder. I can tell you the -- the party -- the party right now, who really is my priority in honoring their request, is the people who really are the victims of this shooting. So what I'm going to do is honor that request and I'm going to tell you, if you think I say we should -- we should display a victim's worst day for public consumption, that is not the transparency I'm speaking of, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I am joined now by a man we also heard from in this morning's news conference. Willie Ratchford heads the Charlotte- Mecklenburg Community Relations Committee.

Mr. Ratchford, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me.

WILLIE RATCHFORD, CHARLOTTE-MECKLENBURG COMMUNITY RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Thank you for the opportunity.

BANFIELD: I am so curious as to the effects of what the chief said this morning regarding the video. It is issue number one for so many sides of this, you can imagine. It's the definitive proof, did he or didn't he have the weapon? But the police chief says we're not going to see it. Are you concerned, in your role as the community relations expert, that this is going to inflame things even further?

RATCHFORD: Well, there's always the possibility that the public not having access to the video might cause some inflammation in the community. However, there are legal protocols that the chief has to follow by North Carolina state law and he is simply following that legal protocol. He is in the midst of his investigation, which has not been completed yet, and he wants to be in the position to give complete and accurate information to the public once it is available.

[12:05:01] BANFIELD: I think you're referring to HB 972, which is a new law that was signed by the governor in July.

RATCHFORD: Yes.

BANFIELD: It does not take effect until next week. It doesn't take effect until next week, which to me says we're in that sweet spot where it is now a judgment call.

RATCHFORD: And that may be true, but it still does not negate the fact that the chief has -- does not feel comfortable at this time where he is in this investigation. And once he gets to that point, then he will make the appropriate decisions regarding the release of the video.

BANFIELD: So the family of the victim in this case has made this request. And under this law, the family has the right and will be shown. Again, the law hasn't taken effect yet, but if we're going by the guidelines of the law, the family has the right to see the video. They do not have the right to copy it or decimate it.

RATCHFORD: That is correct.

BANFIELD: They can witness it. Is that going to be happening any time soon?

RATCHFORD: I -- it is going to happen. I don't know exactly when it's going to happen. In listening to the chief -- the chief earlier today, he is saying it could happen as early as today. But my senses is that within the next couple of days or so it will happen, probably depending upon the availability of the family.

BANFIELD: Something else that I thought was interesting, the chief, the mayor, talked last night about the possibility of a curfew. I believe the mayor was interested in having a curfew. The chief said there will be no curfew tonight. That's got to weigh heavily on you because that means there's a possibility again for an explosive scene on the streets.

RATCHFORD: Well, I defer to the chief regarding the expertise as to whether a curfew should be called. However, he and I are in constant consultation and --

BANFIELD: Are you worried? RATCHFORD: Well, I'm worried just because of this situation here. This

is the first time anything like this has ever happened in Charlotte. So I'm just concerned about that because --

BANFIELD: Because now you have the added issue of no video. Those protesters last night will not get the proof that they may want or need and they may come out en masse even more tonight because of it.

RATCHFORD: I understand that. My sense is that even after the video is shown, there's still going to be a lot of upset folk because they have their own truth and they have other reasons that they're here to protest in Charlotte.

BANFIELD: I heard that over and over with protesters last night, many of them saying, he was reading a book. They were referring to Keith Lamont Scott as having been sitting in a car reading a book. That was the narrative that the family had released afterwards. The police have a different narrative, that there was a weapon.

The police chief said that while we won't get the definitive proof on video from the dash or body cams, other evidence and witness accounts will prove there was a gun. My question to you about that, will that satisfy those people who were so angry on the streets last night, or does their anger surpass whatever happened with, you know, this most current victim in a long line of victims?

RATCHFORD: Yes. I think that once the chief completes a thorough investigation, based upon his definition of that, and he presents the information to the public, folk who are interested in the truth will -- should be satisfied with what has been presented. We simply want to make sure that we've done all of the correct things and that the truth is presented to the community once that investigative process has been completed.

BANFIELD: So -- and -- and that's where I get fascinated because I've been watching each of these cases -- this is the LEGAL VIEW. We try to give the benefit of the doubt right away. We look for the details in these cases.

In the shooting of Michael Brown, Ferguson erupted. They were so angry. And the clarion call became "hands up, don't shoot." When the Department of Justice released its report, they had definitively discovered, through numerous witness accounts, credible witness accounts and evidence, that hadn't happened. There was no hands up, don't shoot. And that Officer Darren Wilson, in that case, actually was justified in his actions in the killing of Michael Brown, but it didn't seem to make a difference in the anger of those who felt palpable frustration and disrupt within the police ranks.

RATCHFORD: And what I would say to that is, during the Kerik (ph) trial, or the Kerik situation, some -- some -- a little over a year ago, there were the same types of concerns and issues regarding the video here in the community and folks were sure that they were getting the definitive answer that they wanting. And once they got -- and once they got a chance to see the video, they saw that the police department was not hiding anything and the video did not show them what they thought that they would see.

BANFIELD: I wish you the best of luck. This is not a position I would want to be in. I think it's -- it must be very stressful for everyone in this community, on any side of this argument, to deal with what may be coming tonight or hopefully won't be coming tonight.

RATCHFORD: Yes.

BANFIELD: Willie Ratchford, thank you, sir. And best of luck.

RATCHFORD: Thank you. Appreciate the opportunity.

BANFIELD: I hope you stay close to us and keep us updated, if you would.

RATCHFORD: Absolutely. Absolutely.

BANFIELD: All right, thank you so much.

RATCHFORD: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Up next, wouldn't simply releasing the video of the Charlotte shooting help to clear up so much, so much of the consternation and the confusion, the anger, the unknown. Why not? What is it about the video that makes it so difficult? The police chief says this is not the finest moment for a dying man. What about the evidence? We're going to talk about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:13:43] BANFIELD: I'm Ashleigh Banfield reporting live in Charlotte after a very late and very violent night. Most of the damage and looting and aggressive activity happened in what's known as the central business district. We had a walk through there earlier. It's remarkable how quickly it's been cleaned up because the looting and the frustration and the protests went on until 3:00 a.m.

But Brian Todd is standing by in that area where some of the evidence of what happened last night is still visible.

Brian, take me through what you've been looking at, what you're seeing and what the story is today.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, this is the epicenter, a convenience store and souvenir shop. This was broken into last night. We saw looters coming in here. And right now they're boarding it up. You see these gentlemen working on the boards here on the -- on one of the doorways and it is being guarded by police officers from Charlotte. Some of these ATMs were also damaged around this area. A lot of businesses were looted and damaged here, as we know. But you're right, the cleanup has been very rapid. They've gotten a lot of this -- a lot of these businesses back up and running. This one is not and we're told the owner is not here right now.

You know, a big point of contention, as we've seen in the news conference with the mayor and the police chief a short time ago, you know, are they going to release the dash cam video showing the shooting death of Keith -- of Mr. Scott, excuse me, Keith Lamont Scott, a couple of days ago. The chief said he has no plans to release that video. We have talked to an official, a police official, who has seen the video. He said that Mr. Scott actually did make a threatening move and that he had a -- an ankle holster. We asked the police chief about that. He would not comment about that.

[12:15:20] But, you know, right now all eyes are on tonight. Are businesses like this going to be safe tonight? Are they going to be targeted again tonight? We're going to see about that. The police chief said that he is not planning on implementing a curfew tonight.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Yes, and so who knows if we'll have new math (ph) tonight, Brian. Forty-four arrests from last night, nine civilians injured and five officers also injured. Brian just showing us one small area along a long street where those protests moved, as did riot police did as well.

You heard the chief of police. He has said that he hopes to show the family of Keith Lamont Scott the video from dash or body cam. He's not saying which. But he has no intention of showing us. Us meaning the masses. That's how he referred to it. He says it would just be inappropriate to present footage of, quote, "a victim's worst day for public consumption."

Well, that's one way to look at it. But there are other ways to look at it too. CNN law enforcement analyst Cedric Alexander joins me now. He served as the president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives. Also with us, CNN legal analyst Paul Callan, a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor as well.

Cedric Alexander, first to you. Does that sit well with you?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, you know, in all fairness to the chief and the decision that he had to make under the circumstances in which he's making it, and also based on North Carolina law, whatever that may happen to be as it relates to releasing video, there's two thoughts here. One, certainly, he wants to make sure that the family have an opportunity to see as much as possible as to what occurred. And he'll be able to do that. But the larger question is not just in Charlotte, but quite frankly across the country and around the world, people have great concern as to what happened out there on that particular evening. So everyone wants to see or have some idea, because we've become very used to it. The public has become very used to, Ashleigh, video footage being shown, whether it was captured by bystanders or captured by a camera pole, pole camera, whatever the case may happen to be. People have some expectation of seeing that. and I think if that is not shared --

BANFIELD: Yes.

ALEXANDER: It certainly is not going to create the kind of environment of transparency in which I think many of our communities want to see. BANFIELD: So -- and have come to expect, as you said. Paul Callan, to

that point, we -- we have complete discrepancy in this story. A family says this man was reading a book. Police say this man was armed and did not drop the gun when commanded to do so. That's sort of textbook for officers who fear for their lives and then have a justified reaction to it, like the one we saw. It just sort of defied logic when you have a community inflame and angry and repeating the narrative of the family that they shouldn't be given the proof one way or the other. Why is that? Why do you see the police having made this decision?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, it's a more difficult question than you might imagine. And I think we could use the analogy of Baltimore and what went on there. You remember the D.A. in that case announced indictments immediately and aggressively going after the cops right away. And you had acquittals in all of the trials, mistrials and all of the charges dismissed. These are difficult investigations. They have to be conducted carefully and by seasoned professionals.

Now, why would there be a reason to hold back video? Well, the reason is that there may be other witnesses and those witnesses could be influenced by seeing video that is released. And so you really -- when you're interviewing witnesses, you want to make sure that their view has not been influenced by publicity or -- and remember what happened in Ferguson. How many witnesses in the Ferguson case later came forward and said --

BANFIELD: Yes, that's a great point. Great point. They even said so.

CALLAN: That's right.

BANFIELD: You're right, the DOJ said so in its report that many of the witnesses who originally gave their narratives live on television admitted later in quiet interviews with Justice Department officials that they had actually repeated what they'd seen on television, as opposed to what they'd seen on location. So you're spot on there.

CALLAN: So -- so I think, Ashleigh --

BANFIELD: Here's a concern, Cedric Alexander --

CALLAN: So, I --

BANFIELD: Go ahead. Go ahead, Paul.

CALLAN: Yes, I just want to -- yes, one point. I just think you've got a politically courageous police chief here. The easy thing would be to release everything and I think he's just trying to be a professional and do the right thing. And I'd hesitate to criticize him at this point.

BANFIELD: And I -- and I can see criticism coming from both sides.

[12:19:59] Cedric Alexander, the way this works is that law here in Charlotte, HB 972, North Carolina law, that says it prohibits this kind of material from being considered public record, that's for now. But if this officer ends up going on trial, that will become trial record and trial record is public record. My fear, and I wonder if it's yours, is that ultimately this may end up becoming public. So might we be in for a big old round of re-violence on the streets here in say a year or two?

ALEXANDER: Well, well, I don't want to be speculative of any of this. I certainly do want to respect the decision of the chief. And I certainly don't want to second guess him because at the end of the day, he and other elected officials are going to have to take responsibility in terms of what was revealed and what was not revealed. But the converging issue, to Callan's statement, is this, is that fortunately or unfortunately there's an expectation that community has now to see footage because in so many other scenarios they have seen this footage and that's what makes it somewhat of a challenge for Charlotte. But, no, he is being courageous in the statement that he's making. But at the end of the day, that city, their leadership, will take full account and responsibility as to what they think is best for their own community.

BANFIELD: Cedric Alexander and Paul Callan, I can't thank you enough for your time you're your wisdom at this moment for this city.

ALEXANDER: Thank you.

BANFIELD: And speaking of that -- thank you to both of you -- I want to take some live pictures up right now if I can of what's happening in this city. It may look beautiful and quiet now. Make no mistake, there are preparations going on right now and here is the definitive proof of that. Live pictures as the National Guard arrives in the city with its preparations for whatever may come. If this looks familiar to you, some of these same vehicles, or similar ones for certain, arrived in Baltimore as well. This was the scene around the central district in Baltimore where so much of the activity happened as well, National Guard troops and equipment, heavy machinery, moving in, the troop movements as well coming in because National Guard is set to deploy today.

But what will not happen is a curfew. We learned that today during a news conference. There will not be a curfew in these streets today. And there will be no television video for anyone to consume of what the dash cam or body cam covered and captured during that fateful moment when Keith Lamont Scott was shot dead. Police say he had a gun. The family says he had a book. So here we are in the aftermath of two nights of violence, the National Guard moving in. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:21] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It's hard to believe that this is the scene of all of that activity last night. This was one of the intersections where that ring of riot police were last night. And this morning the street sweepers were out early cleaning up debris, cleaning up those canisters, broken glass, anything on the streets. And it's business as usual back in the business district, which is where the majority of the action was last night, and the damage.

But if you can't see it here, come with me. This is where the majority of the damage was, the Epicenter Entertainment Complex. Come over here and see the souvenir shop that was smashed and looted last night. A lot of the evidence still on the sidewalk below. You can see the debris, the broken glass, some of the products that were scattered inside, taking stock of how bad the damage actually is. Outside, two officers standing guard to make sure there's no additional looting at this time. But what you're seeing on the ground here is the evidence of looters as witnesses say picking up anything they could from the street and using it to smash glass.

Two private company police vehicles, usually stationed here to provide security for the light rail above, unfortunately caught up in all that violence last night. Their windows smashed. And, today, they're just sitting here waiting for repair.

One of the worst-hit places was the Hyatt House Hotel. Take a look at the damage that the front windows sustained. Apparently the hotel manager saying that the looters used bricks to smash out these windows, but that was the least of their worries because there was actually injury here as well. These front doors apparently smashed in as well and a valet and a front desk manager also injured when they were hit in the face by some of these protesters.

And this wasn't the only business. It was the Nascar Hall of Fame, Buffalo Wild Wing restaurant and the Hampton Inn, all of these places reporting not only looting but also possibly confrontation too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So that was about an hour ago in the Charlotte central business district, as I mentioned. But now we're back here live, just outside of the police department. And we heard from Charlotte's mayor and the police chief, both of whom say that they have now seen the dash cam and the body cam footage from the police shooting death of Keith Lamont Scott. For now, though, they're the only ones who are going to see it, in a small group. The public, the rest of us, not a chance, at least not now.

John Barnett is with me. He is a civil rights activist and president of a group called True Healing Under God.

Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us.

JOHN BARNETT, PRESIDENT, TRUE HEALING UNDER GOD: Thank you.

BANFIELD: I can't imagine what this is going to do to all of those people who were out last night and so angry. All of those people who probably need definitive proof of what happened. And everybody else across the nation who probably needs definitive proof of what happened. Your thoughts?

[12:30:10] BARNETT: And we're very disturbed by that.