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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Charlotte Protests over Police Shooting; Attorney General Speaks about Charlotte Case. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired September 22, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:01] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: -- last night and so angry, all of those people who probably need definitive proof of what happened. And everybody else across the nation who probably need definitive proof of what happened, your thoughts.

JOHN C. BARNETT, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: We're very disturbed by that. If they can see the video they shouldn't take long and then to release it to us and let the community see exactly what's going on.

And I think that would stop some of these windows being broken. Ashleigh, we really believe that. There's a remedy tonight. We're going to have a night of peace tonight. And we're asking 400 men to join us and we're going to actually join forces with police because this is our city and we don't want it to be teared down. So we're going to be encouraging those men to stand with us with the police.

BANFIELD: John, it's noble, it's laudable. But last night we had such a peaceful group of demonstrators doing exactly -- the noise, I apologize -- doing exactly that. I mean charlotte showed its best in so many respects last night. And then Charlotte showed its worst as well.

BARNETT: That's right.

BANFIELD: How certain can you be that that's not going to repeat?

BARNETT: I think we just need more dallow. And I think -- I want to ask is that, you know, it's been bubbling so to speak for a minute in this country. And the youth are upset. And as long as the day where we're just trying to wait for answers, people are very impatient, you know.

Back in the days, used to have macaroni and cheese that took an hour to bake. Now, we got easy mac.

So people have a very short minds that they want things fast and quick.

BANFIELD: Well guess what else we have, we have these.

BARNETT: That's right.

BANFIELD: And this is a huge dynamic in all of these. I mean the message spreads like wildfire. The genesis of the message spreads like wildfire. BARNETT: It helped Walter Scott.

BANFIELD: And, you know what, last night we also had evidence of things because of this, cell phones. But I guess the bigger question is, is this so much about this Mr. Scott, Keith Lamont Scott, as much as it is about Walter Scott, as much as it is about Michael Brown.

There are so many to name. Is that what last night is more about or is last night more about their local friend who they believe they've lost?

BARNETT: I think it's a disappointment in the system. We've seen what happened to Walter Scott. They cut the check immediately. The family received $5.5 million. I mean checks are being cut over and over for the lives of African-American males. And it's just too much.

Mr. Gray in Baltimore, you know, Eric Garner, another $5.9 million. You know, America is cutting checks for the blood of African-American men. And you do not cut a check for $5 million unless somebody did something wrong.

BANFIELD: Is it for the blood of African-American men or is it for the healing of the families who had nothing to do with that?

BARNETT: I think it's for the blood of African-American men but more importantly when it comes to African-American men, we see no justice. We see a paycheck and officers go free. And that's the saddest situation. And that's what makes the blood boil and the streets of the youth, not just in Charlotte, but across the country.

BANFIELD: John Barnett, I wish you the best of luck tonight in your peaceful demonstration. I hope it stays that way. And maybe we'll be able to, you know, talk with you either during, certainly after, on whatever is going to come to pass tonight.

BARNETT: Yes, we definitely telling all the youth in Charlotte to, you know, increase the peace. It's important. Thank you.

BANFIELD: Nice to have you. Thank you so much for taking the time, sir, appreciate it.

I want to take you Washington D.C. as well because at this hour, members of the Congressional Black Caucus are making their way from not only the capital building but right down to the Justice Department.

And my CNN colleague Manu Raju is with them. Manu, they're carrying a letter to the Justice Department. What's in the letter?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yeah, that's right, Ashleigh. Actually I'm here actually right now with G.K. Butterfield who is the chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus, going to deliver this letter to Loretta Lynch.

So Mr. Butterfield, what exactly are you asking Loretta Lynch to do? REP. G.K. BUTTERFIELD, D-NORTH CAROLINA: We're facing a national crisis right now with police shootings all across the country. Every week, we pick up the newspapers and see that there's been another senseless killing of an unarmed African-American. And Congressional Black Caucus is sick and tired of it. African-American communities are tired of it. And we need federal intervention and we need it now.

We're asking Loretta Lynch as the attorney general to use the full power of the Justice Department, the federal government, to get involved at the local level, to discourage police departments from allowing irrational and unlawful activities within their departments.

RAJU: Have you not been satisfied by what Loretta Lynch has done so far on this issue?

BUTTERFIELD: No, there must be more. We're not satisfied with the progress of the U.S. Justice Department. It needs to be more aggressive. It needs to be more robust. And that's the demand that we are making out. We're personally meeting with her today at 12:45. And we're asking for a full investigation and holding police officers accountable for their unlawful conduct.

RAJU: And more prosecutions too.

BUTTERFIELD: Absolutely, indictments and prosecutions and more robust investigations at the federal level.

RAJU: OK, Mr. Butterfield, thank you for chatting with us.

So Ashleigh, there you have it, the CBC, Congressional Black Caucus, having this press conference right now outside of the Justice Department, trying to make the case that there needs to be more prosecution. But interestingly what you just heard from Mr. Butterfield, he is not satisfied with what Loretta Lynch has done so far in these inner city communities.

[12:35:07] Remember, a lot of these Congressional Black Caucus members represent districts that we've seen this escalating tension between the police force and these inner city communities. So it will be interesting to hear the pressure that Democrats are putting on a fellow democratic administration right now, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Manu, we're going to continue to follow you. As you continue following that march as well. We'll get update along the route and of course at the end at the Department of Justice.

Coming up next, two police shootings in two different cities two days apart, in one city, a state of emergency and violence, the National Guard called in. The other city, the exact opposite, prayers, prayer meetings, so what's the difference? Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:40:10] BANFIELD: We've shown you the reaction here in Charlotte. But in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where Terrence Crutcher, an unarmed man, was shot and killed by police, there has been a very different scene. Members of the community from all walks of life came together for a vigil last night. Here are the pictures. They gathered together and they actually collected money to help Crutcher's family and they prayed.

Here in Charlotte, however, that was not the scene. Instead, it was violence, it was looting, vandalism, injury, so why such a stark difference?

Joining me now, Alexis Johnson, executive director of the Perception Institute, they study race and gender bias. I'm also joined by CNN, law enforcement analyst, once again Cedric Alexander, he served as the president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives.

Alexis, if I can begin with you. The Perception Institute, it rings so true because it was just in the last day or two Hillary Clinton evoked that the notion of inherent bias in policing. I want to get your feedback on the images you saw last night here in Charlotte and the company of those who called out and said it's not necessarily just about Mr. Scott, it's about the whole problem, perhaps this inherent bias. Do you believe there's an inherent bias? And if you do from the Perception Institute, do you believe it can be changed or that it will?

ALEXIS JOHNSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR PERCEPTION INSTITUTE: Absolutely, I do think that not only do we all hold implicit bias, particularly with respect to race, we get them through the -- largely through media, through culture, the associations that we have learned to create around particularly around black men and fear is something that is inherent in all of us.

And I think that what we're seeing in Charlotte is despair. There's a sense of emotions that's under girding that. There's a despair that we have been doing everything right in our communities in terms of training our young boys and our men around dealing with police and law enforcement. And yet, even when we do right, we still are subject to almost death.

And so I think the perception that these systems are not fair, that there's no accountability that we saw just a few -- just this weekend, that it is possible to actually shoot a suspect and that person still live.

And when it comes to African-American men, that's not the case. And so these are local issues for sure. They have to be adjudicated in local jurisdictions. But at the same time they're tapping into a national consciousness and -- of concern, largely around what's happening of our young boys and men of color.

BANFIELD: Cedric Alexander, the, you know, inherent bias that many African-Americans in the United States will say they feel when it comes to the way they are policed, there is another side of those who say what about the police who deal with dangerous people every day and that their fear is different than our fear who aren't police.

And I want to refer to something that was honored today. It doesn't play into this particular incident, the incident that Keith -- that killed Keith Lamont Scott. Because when the officers arrived, they didn't know who he was. They didn't have his background. They didn't run his plates necessarily and know anything about him. But we are learning about him.

In 2002, he shot a man. In 2003, he was indicted. And he ultimately pled to felony aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and evading arrest. He was sentenced and served until 2011.

So that nation may or may not make its way into a courtroom because prior bad acts for good reason don't necessarily make it into court cases because they don't necessarily actually factor into the moment a decision is made to pull a trigger.

But in this particular case, can you see how people across the country will seize on that and say this is the kind of thing police are dealing with every day. Of course they're on the trigger and afraid when they deal with any kind of situation that they come to that looks unusual.

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, a lot of these perceptions are, you know, as we well know born out of experiences, experiences particularly of people in this color and police for the last 100 years or so since the beginning of police departments across this country.

So there's a long-standing history there that separation in that divide. And some of those feelings that still to this day are carried on in legacy from one generation to another. Then we see it played out as you heard so emotionally, Congressman Butterfield just spoke to. But perceptions aren't people's realities.

And I'll give you a good example if I could here, Ashleigh. If we go back a few days ago to the bombing in New York where a subject got into a shootout with the police, shot two police officers, injured 31 American citizens, but when we see him on television, he's laying on a gurney with one hand behind his back. Only thing he's short of is the cigarette in his mouth.

[12:45:18] But yet what we see when it come to black men and whether this perception is true or not what people are seeing and drawing contrast to is that when police engage with young black men, they end up dead. And that becomes the frustration and anger that I think that we're hearing, we're seeing acted out. We still have to address these issues. Because even though those are two entirely very different cases, under different circumstances, the perception does not match up with what the reality may be.

BANFIELD: Yeah, I do want to make sure that that our viewers are clear about Ahmed Rahami, and who was shot by the police in a shootout in New Jersey. He was -- he sustained a major gunfire, probably pretty lucky that he survived. In fact, he's intubated and the last medical report we had, he was unconscious. So the fact he survived may have just been a lucky break for him.

But Alexis, if I can go back to this, the notion of inherent bias, it is intriguing and complex for a lot of people of any kind of color in fact to try to discern the significance of the officer in this case, Officer Brently Vinson, he's African-American as well.

Last night, I saw protesters, who were so aggressive to some of the African-American troops, the S.W.A.T. Police who were there, that the invective, the vile language that was being hurled their way. I want to try to get inside that notion of those who are African-American and are angry with African-American police and believe that African- American police, like Officer Brantly Vinson are somehow the enemy.

JOHNSON: I totally understand that Ashleigh, and I think the way we use often times they way we talk about bias it seems as though it's code for saying only white people hold implicit biases or these inherent biases and that's simply not true. We all hold some degree of bias. You know, because we've internalized whatever the dominate reputation is of fear and largely because, you know, we watch the "CSIs" we watch the "Law & Orders" we watch the "Cop Shows" and typically we see media equating African-American men with violence and fear and that gets embedded in our brains.

Implicit bias is nothing more than automatic association of a stereotype with a group of people. And we know in this country that we have been essentially brainwashed to believe that African-Americans are inherently more evil, more violent and more to be feared. And that is what's playing out. So the fact that the officer ...

BANFIELD: Alexis? I'm so sorry to interrupt you. I have to go right away. I beg your pardon. To the Attorney General Loretta Lynch who's commenting on Charlotte.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORETTA LYNCH, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Ushering in more tragedy and grief in our communities. And the tragic events in Charlotte and in Tulsa, Oklahoma, earlier this week, once again have underscored the division that persist between law enforcement officers and the communities that we serve, particularly communities of color. And one of my top priorities, as attorney general, has been to do everything in my power to help heal those divides and the Department of Justice will continue working tirelessly to protect the rights of all Americans, to give law enforcement the resources they need to do their jobs safely and fairly, to open dialogue, to promote reconciliation and to reduce violence of all kind in to this country.

But as we've seen in recent months, despite these efforts and the efforts of many others across the country, we have come together with thoughts and prayers far too many times for the victim of violence, civilians and law enforcement officers alike.

And too many times, we've allowed ourselves to be pulled down the easy path of blame and accusation, rather than the harder path of empathy and understanding. Let us choose that path. Let us work together to ensure that all Americans have both a voice and value in this great value of ours.

And let my reaffirm my full commitment and the full commitment of the Department of Justice to advancing that effort. And those who are exercising, the most fundamental of freedoms, we hear your voices and we feel your pain.

To all the law enforcement officers who continue to risk their lives day in and day out to keep us safe and to protect those essential freedoms, I extend my deepest thanks and support.

But finally, I urge all Americans to ask themselves what they can do to contribute to the more peaceful, the more perfect and the more just union that is our shared heritage, that is our mutual responsibility and that is our common goal.

[12:50:09] I thank you. And moving on to the announcement of this afternoon. I'm joined here today by Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General Ben Mizer who is the head of the Justice Department, Civil Division.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The Attorney General Loretta Lynch making her comments trying to calm a nation. What will be fascinating is the DOJ's involvement or the extent of the DOJ's involvement when it comes to what's happened in Tulsa and in Charlotte. We've seen this happen in the past. The DOJ has come in and they have done investigations in previous police shootings.

At this point, the Attorney General saying they are monitoring. So nothing to announce yet in terms of official investigations being launched into these two police shootings but they are monitoring. Stay tuned to the space for that.

What you have probably seen a lot of in the last couple of weeks is the NFL and sports figures speaking up about these very issues, about policing and perhaps inherent bias and about what it's like to be an African-American man or woman on the streets in America today, when it comes to policing. Heard about Colin Kaepernick taking a knee during the American National Anthem.

And now we have Cam Newton. This is his home. He's a beloved quarterback of the Carolina Panthers. And he had this to say as that team decides whether they can actually have their home game here on Sunday. This is what he had to say about what happened in his city last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAM NEWTON, PANTHERS QUARTERBACK: I know from being a black person it's a lot of black people that don't do right about black people. So you can't be a hypocrite and just say oh, well, a white man or a white police officer killed a black man. Now, that's still messed up. I'm not saying that it's okay. I'm just saying we just still got to be, you know, have a clear-eyed vision on both sides. And it starts with everybody holding each other accountable. And policing yourselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: Cam Newton having his say and weighing in on both sides of this national debate right here in Charlotte. I want to take you back to Capitol Hill right now live in Washington, D.C. we joined Manu Raju earlier as he was walking with the congressional black caucus on their way from the hill to the DOJ.

Right now this is Congressman Emanuel Cleaver, a Democrat from Missouri. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. EMANUEL CLEAVER, D-MISSOURI: We need them to act now and the members of the Congressional Black Caucus are not going to sit back and do nothing. We're going to make sure we push for legislation. So we're going to be calling on Paul Ryan to come with some legislation that we can work on and put forward to change this. But at the meanwhile we want the Attorney General to utilize her powers as the Attorney General.

BUTTERFIELD: The ranking member of the committee on judiciary in the house and the dean of the House of Representatives, Mr. Conyers, of Michigan.

REP. JOHN CONYERS, (D) Michigan: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Brothers and sisters, there have been so many incidents that the root causes that are tied together with social racism that brand too many black citizens as predators and police practices that treat them as potential perpetrators, breeding distrust between law enforcement and communities that they're bound to protect.

So responding to this destructive cycle requires a broad-based approach and as we stand at the doors of the Department of Justice, I must commend Attorney General Loretta Lynch and her team from the civil rights division for so far being on the job but we need more action now. Using the pattern and practice enforcement authority under the law, 42 United States Code 14141, the department has got to investigate and sue more police departments to address the dangers and discriminatory practices that result in excessive force or racial profile.

Now, this statute has been used successfully across the nation. From Ferguson and Baltimore to reduce the number of police involved shootings in targeted cities and illustrative of the positive effect of legislative reforms.

[12:54:58] Last year, in the midst of a record wave of officer- involved killings, the judiciary committee held a hearing on 21st century policing strategies to begin addressing the issue of law enforcement accountability at the federal level.

Since that time, we have also formed a bipartisan working group with the chairman, Republican Chairman Bob Goodlatte of judiciary committee and we'll be meeting this afternoon to develop a plan to get police reform legislation through the Congress.

And I commend all of my colleagues for being here. The struggle continues. I came to the judiciary a number of years ago because of the fact of police brutality and excessive use of force. And so I'm pleased that we stand so strongly together at this point. Thank you.

BUTTERFIELD: Thank you, Mr. Conyers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And as members of the Congressional Black Caucus have their say outside the offices of the Department of Justice, the Attorney General herself, having addressed the live microphone to suggest they are monitoring this situation. But you heard the words of the congressman. They want action. Whether that means investigations into both of these circumstances, the shootings of black males by police, one allegedly armed. The other, what appears to clearly be unarmed, remains to be seen.

This is a fast developing story. But I can tell you this, this beautiful city of Charlotte, everybody's hoping it doesn't devolve into the same kind of chaos last night that saw five officers injured. Nine civilians injured. 44 arrest. And one of those civilians shot and in critical condition. The National Guard now moving in to Charlotte. In images that are early reminiscent of Baltimore. Will this city have the same stresses that Baltimore and Ferguson and other cities before it have undergone remains to be seen, but two nights so far protests and they seem to be getting more violent.

All seems to stem around the lack of evidence so far for the public about what happened when Keith Lamont Scott was shot dead by police. The police say he had a gun. His family said he had a book. There is video evidence, dash cam or body cam, but the police say they will not release it now. They will let the family see it. So we're awaiting all of that at this time. No curfew planned for this city. We're going to continue our live coverage from right here in Charlotte.

I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Thank you so much for joining us. Wolf Blitzer is up right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:01] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's noon in Tulsa, Oklahoma, 1:00 p.m. here in New York, 8:30 p.m. in Tehran, wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We begin with unrest with Charlotte North Carolina.