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Charlotte Protests Continue Despite Curfew; Tyler Hickey Documents Charlotte Protests; Charlotte Mayor: Shooting Video Unclear; Obama Comments on Violent Protests in Charlotte; Trump Appeals to Black Voters, Calls for National Anti-Crime Agenda. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired September 23, 2016 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:00:11] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. Great to have you with us. We'd like to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John Vause, live in Los Angeles, where it is just gone to 11:00 p.m.

Protesters are still marching through the streets of Charlotte, North Carolina. Police say it has been mostly peaceful. A midnight-to-6:00 a.m. curfew will not be reinforced as long as the situation remains calm. This is in sharp contrast to Wednesday night when the crowd turned violent.

CNN's Boris Sanchez is live in Charlotte. He's been out with the protesters all night.

I guess the question is, Boris, how much longer do you think this will continue? What do the police say?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Not much longer, John. It appears the majority of the crowd has dissipated. From what we can tell, the majority of people have gone home at this point. A lot of National Guard officers here lining the street behind me, a couple hundred feet from where we are at the police headquarters here in Charlotte, have moved on. Very different scene here tonight than what we have seen the past two nights where there was looting in the streets and objects thrown at police and fights among some of the demonstrators.

It started with a vigil for the young man who was killed during the protests yesterday, Justin Carr. He was apparently the victim of a shooting. Police told us it was a civilian that opened fire in that crowd. We were a few feet in front of him and heard a loud explosion. Everyone started running.

Today, at the same corner, where we were, there was a vigil for him. Faith leaders got together to pray and have a conversation about how to move forward from these incidents, not only the shooting of Justin Carr but the death of Keith Lamont Scott.

After that, the crowd continued to grow and they left that corner outside of the Omni Hotel and moved downtown. We made three or four loops around downtown Charlotte. My photographer, at the time, had a fitness tracker on and counted we walked more than five miles going with these protesters.

The biggest difference tonight, there was no interference, direct interference from police. Many were on bikes and followed them around the route. They were also walking alongside them but no line of police officers in tactical gear to confront these protesters and stop their movement.

They stopped in several places, one of them out here at the police department. They laid down on the ground to simulate having been shot. They stopped outside of the Omni Hotel. Ultimately, there was no real explosion we expected close to midnight when the curfew was supposed to kick into effect. There was no confrontation with police. The Charlotte police department said it was fine, as long as the protesters, as you mentioned, John, kept the peace they would not interfere with their demonstration.

Ultimately, a different tone and very different scenes playing out across Charlotte. This is what city leaders were hoping from in terms of a demonstration. They hope for the same over the weekend when more demonstrators are expected -- John?

VAUSE: Boris Sanchez, with the latest there at 2:00 in the morning in Charlotte, North Carolina. Thank you.

Tyler Hickey is live on the phone from Charlotte. He's been documenting the protest and has been there since the first day.

Tyler, how would you explain the difference tonight? Was it essentially because the community leaders were out trying to keep the situation calm? Was that the main thing that prevented the violence?

TYLER HICKEY, NORTH CAROLINA RESIDENT DOCUMENTING PROTEST (voice- over): I would say yes. There was a lot of community leaders out there today. They were talking to us and telling us this is the right way to do it. Last night things got out of hand but tonight we want to show the world that this is how Charlotte acts when we want to change something. We use our words and change things.

VAUSE: Tyler, with are looking at the photographs you have taken over the last couple of days. Looking at the crowd and comparing it Tuesday, Wednesday and now tonight, has it been the same group of people in terms of diversity and terms of people that turned out to demonstrate or was tonight different in some way?

HICKEY: I would say tonight was the same as far as the diversity of the crowd. You saw black, white, Asian. It didn't matter. I would say what the mood of the crowd was, some past nights, has been anger and what not, but tonight was more so we are in this together. We are in this together in Charlotte. Using our mouths and the words to love everybody. And the picture of a man asking if he could have a hug, and this police officer embraced him. That was powerful to me at the University of North Carolina, Charlotte. This is a touching me as a political science major. I study it in the classroom and I see it first hand and how this is real change takes hold. [02:05:25] VAUSE: What was the main demand from the protesters, was

there one demand, to release the police videotape?

HICKEY: We were talking to a lot of protests -- we are doing a documentary. The main demand was, we understand not all police officers are bad or did the wrong thing. We want them to stand with us and the community. If something happens we want you to be on our side. They were angry that the tapes are not released and felt letdown by the officers. In Charlotte, we have a good connection with the officers but when this happened, you know, a lot of secrecy, we don't want to release the tape and this and that and that hurts. That's why they lashed out. But tonight it was just officers we understand but we want you to be with us in the community.

VAUSE: The National Guard was deployed by the governor. What was your reaction to seeing soldiers in camouflage standing on street corners? Was it jarring?

HICKEY: No. It was -- I understand what they were doing out there. I talked to a lot of them. They told the same thing. They want us to be safe and peaceful. It's not necessary they want us to be scared of them. But they want them to know they are here to protect us and use our protest and use our amendment rights to get our voice out. That's all they were here for.

VAUSE: Tyler Hickey, on the line giving us his perspective over the last couple of days, and the last few hours, which have been peaceful there relatively speaking in Charlotte.

Thank you, Tyler.

Joining me here in Los Angeles, CNN law enforcement contributor, Steve Moore; and civil rights attorney, Areva Martin.

Steve, let's get to the issue, curfew, midnight-to-6:00 a.m., they are not enforcing it, don't want a confrontation. How long does that situation go on, just let it peter out?

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It is nuanced and you have to understand that people have the right to protest, and it's important for them to be heard. So, you do this as long as it takes, especially after tonight, when you had what I would -- you know, it's never pleasant to see signs that say things like "stop killing us," things like that. But at the same time, if this establishes a dialogue and trust, you have to go with it.

VAUSE: Areva, do you see this as the end of the protest or the end of the protest for tonight?

AREVA MARTIN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: No, I don't think it is the end of the protest at all. I think the community is searching and looking for transparency. When you have the mayor continuing and the chief of police continuing to make statements about the videotape they watched without sharing that videotape with the public, I think you are going to see continued protests. What I'm encouraged about tonight is, listening to Tyler, this college

student, talking so articulately about what's happening on the streets. And when he talked about that trust, he said, this is a police department that was previously with us. Why have they -- in his words and I will paraphrase --"abandoned us." That's a sense they are keeping something from us.

And I know as a lawyer, if that videotape showed Mr. Scott raising his gun, pointing that gun at the police officer or doing something that supported the narrative by the police chief, I can tell you categorically we would be watching that videotape tonight rather than talking about it.

VAUSE: Steve, from a law enforcement point of view, how important is it to have that trust with the community? How difficult is it to get back once it is lost?

MOORE: Great question. If you do not have the trust of the community, the entire community, then you can't police. It takes you years to develop trust and it only takes a few days to lose it. You can -- even if -- and I'm leaning towards the thought that this maybe a justified shooting. I don't know. I don't know the facts. But even if it is a justified shooting they have done damage by not -- damage to trust by not coming out as quickly as say the Tulsa Police Department did.

VAUSE: Can you explain the difference in the response, we are seeing protests and violence in Charlotte, in Tulsa, Oklahoma --

(CROSSTALK)

[02:00:54] MARTIN: It has been a week in Tulsa, Oklahoma, since we saw the hands up and the man was shot, the African-American unarmed male shot in Tulsa, and we already have an arrest and a charge, first- degree manslaughter. What we don't have in Charlotte is a lot of communication from the law enforcement officials, from the mayor. We haven't heard anything from the prosecuting attorney. I think what we are seeing the difference here is transparency, communication. So key.

What we learned by all of the shootings -- and I have been at this desk on so many of them more than I would care to comment about. But what we have learned is communication is key in terms of building trust with the community and causing individuals, like Tyler, who are on the ground, doing the protests, to believe what they are hearing is true.

VAUSE: One of the issues, of course, is the videotape from the dash cam and body cam. The family of the victim, Mr. Scott, they want that tape to be made public. The officials in Charlotte are saying no. But they have played the tape to the family of Mr. Scott, and the family's lawyer told us what he saw on that tape. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN BAMBERG, ATTORNEY FOR KEITH LAMONT SCOTT FAMILY: You see officers yelling commands. You see Mr. Scott step out of the vehicle. His hands are down by his side. He is acting calm. He's acting is a very non-aggressive manner. He looks to be confused to be quite honest. You do see something in his hand, but it's impossible to make out from the video what it is. I do know tht at the moment he was shot, he actually appeared to be stepping backwards.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Steve, what do you make of that?

MOORE: Here's the problem. Here's why I believe sometimes the police are concerned about tapes like that. The gun doesn't have to be pointed at the officer to be an imminent threat of deadly force. If they are making demands and the person is not complying. If he was holding a gun and will not put it down you have to ask yourself, why won't he put the gun down? He may intend to use it. At that point, you fear for your life. I'm not saying this is how it will turn out but officers need a fair shake.

VAUSE: Areva, police do have constitutional rights, as well.

MARTIN: Absolutely. I think, Steve, you hit on something important in this case. We heard the attorney for the family tell us that what he witnessed on the tape was, you know, the victim walking backwards, which would suggest he was not being aggressive in any way that would be threatening to the police officer. What we saw Mr. Crutcher in Tulsa, Oklahoma, was his hands up and him appearing to comply with the police officers. What we are not seeing from the police in Charlotte is the narrative that you said, the hypothetical you told us about, the issue of trust. I think the community would respond differently if we had a press conference by the police chief and if he stood there and told us, we talked to two witnesses, we investigated the scene, we have watched the video, we will show you the videotape, but this is what we know today about this shooting. We're not hearing that. That's why this community is responding in the way that it is responding.

MOORE: And I'm agreeing with you on that, Areva.

VAUSE: Virtually, we have heard from the police chief, Kerr Putney. He held a news conference and he said he doesn't want to release the tape because he wants to maintain the integrity of the investigation, which sounds fair enough, but another reason why he doesn't want to release the police tape is this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERR PUTNEY, CHIEF, CHARLOTTE POLICE DEPARTMENT: I don't want to set a bad precedent that I'm releasing lots of video and I think you could be destroying some of the trust to some our most vulnerable victims, especially those of domestic violence and sexual assaults.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN: Yeah, that argument flies in the face of reason. In the legal field, we have a term called cherry picking. If the video supported the narrative of the police officer, I don't think that statement would be made by the police chief. I think he would show the tape. And you can't cherry pick. You can't pick the support that supports the narrative and provide that tape and then provide one that doesn't.

And I say to this police chief, if this police officer did something that was out of policy, that was an excessive use of force, don't sacrifice the entire community for one police officer, don't do it.

VAUSE: Actually, a good point.

MOORE: Very good point.

VAUSE: That's what the chief said. The integrity of the investigation seems like a reasonable excuse. The other part doesn't wash.

MOORE: No. The other part doesn't seem to have bearing on this. And trust me, I kind of bleed blue. But you have to be honest with the public.

I think part of the issue is we talk about trust back and forth. Obviously, the police are losing some trust with the community. The police, I think, need to have some trust built up so that if they say, listen, a gun in the hand pointed at the ground can easily be swung up at me. They need to have the trust that the people who are on the other side of those protest lines will understand at least to a certain extent. They don't have to agree with everything but just to understand their world.

(CROSSTALK)

[02:15:31] MARTIN: Dialogue, conversation, bringing people together.

MOORE: And that's what they were doing. That's what Tyler was doing.

VAUSE: Steve, Areva, as always, it's been great.

MARTIN: Thanks, John.

VAUSE: Thank you for being here. And thank you for the last couple of days. We appreciate it.

And we'll take a short break. And then when we come back, more on the breaking news out of Charlotte, North Carolina. Hear from the city's mayor after she watched the video of the shooting death.

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(WEATHER REPORT)

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VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. An update on the breaking news out of Charlotte, North Carolina, where protests have been mostly peaceful after two nights of violence. Protesters have now left after a curfew went in to effect just other two hours ago. Demonstrators have been on the streets after the police shooting death of Keith Lamont Scott. Police say they don't plan to enforce the curfew, providing it remains peaceful.

Our Brian Todd spoke with a Charlotte police captain moments after the curfew went into effect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[02:20:18] BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Why, after midnight, have the police not moved in and forcibly removed some of the marchers?

UNIDENTIFIED CHARLOTTE POLICE DEPARTMENT CAPTAIN: It has not been necessary. It has been peaceful. And it will help to make that happen and pull people away. The unit here as been working hard from the inside and they are doing the lion's share of work. That is what is helping it be peaceful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Joining me in Los Angeles, criminal defense attorney, Brian Claypool; and social commentator, Segun Oduolowu.

We heard from the president. He made his first comments about the violent protests. He is calling, as you would expect, for a peaceful resolution. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's important to separate out the pervasive sense of frustration among a lot of African-Americans about shootings of people in the sense that justice is not always you know, color-blind. The way we change the system requires us to be able to reach out and engage the broader American community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Segun, is that the response you were hoping for from the president?

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Hmm, that is a very loaded question. I will say yes, because what is the alternative?

VAUSE: Right.

ODUOLOWU: He can't -- he's black. He's a black guy. He has been profiled before. He's been followed in stores, I'm sure. People have treated him poorly because of the color of his skin. I'm sure he empathizes with those protesters that are doing it peacefully, and as frustrated as the rioters that are acting violently, but he knows nothing is to be gained by acting out on your frustration.

VAUSE: Brian, the point he made, it is important to reach out and engage the broader community. It seems that is something which either hasn't been done successfully or even tried. BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I will be honest. I don't

know what he means by that.

VAUSE: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

CLAYPOOL: I really find it a generic, benign remark. He should be saying things like, why are we not enforcing racial profiling among police departments across the country? 12 years ago, there was a federal law passed where state and local law enforcement agencies were supposed to disseminate racial-profiling statistics to the citizens so we have more transparency. Why isn't he talking about that? Why isn't he talking about uniform retraining of police officers that we patently need? I have -- I can name four shootings where none of the deceased did anything wrong to even warrant a police officer approaching them: Walter Scott, in South Carolina, a taillight, a taillight broken on his car; Terence Crutcher, his SUV broke down --

(CROSSTALK)

CLAYPOOL: And you have Keith Scott, waiting in his car for his son to come; and Freddie Gray, who was on a bicycle.

(CROSSTALK)

ODUOLOWU: You want him to be a black guy. Basically, you want the president to be a black guy, to vocalize what angry black people.

(CROSSTALK)

ODUOLOWU: You don't want that?

VAUSE: What does that get you at the end of the day?

ODUOLOWU: We want that, but we can't have that.

VAUSE: Let's move on. The protesters have been demanding the release of the body cam and dash cam video. The mayor of Charlotte is among the few people who have been able to watch. This is what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER ROBERTS, (D), CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA MAYOR: Well, I actually was able to view that video today. And I am in agreement with our chief, as well as the family of Mr. Scott. And both the family and the chief have said the video is ambiguous. It is not clear. When you have body camera in motion, you have things in the way and obscured views, it is not clear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: This is coming from the mayor. The attorney for the family had a different take on what was in the video.

But at the end of the day, Brian, if refusing to release the tape, it causes in to question the point of having a body and dash cam camera in the first place.

CLAYPOOL: Right. This is classic cherry picking. We've got body cams, dash cams. Let's look at in the video, and see if it helps us, we will release it, or if it doesn't or if it is ambiguous, we won't release it. That's not the purpose of having body cams and dash cams.

Here's another thing. This is pathetic, her comment. They know if there was a gun or not, John, because every killing of a citizen by law enforcement is treated as a homicide, as a crime scene. They create evidence logs. They document every piece of evidence. Guess what? If there was a gun, it would be number one on the evidence log. Why isn't anyone affiliated with this investigation telling everybody across this world whether there was a gun or not? They know.

[02:25:28] VAUSE: Well they came out and they said there was a gun there.

(CROSSTALK)

ODUOLOWU: Now we're in that dangerous place where, again, you want the president of the United States to be a black guy, and as the only black guy on the desk, I'll tell you now, I don't trust a word you said. I do not believe a word you said. We talked about this last night. If you are sitting on evidence and your city is burning -- her city is burning -- and you have evidence that will exonerate and put a pin in the balloon --

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: There's a disconnect between the mayor and city. She is saying, in a very heated atmosphere, where there's a lack of transparency, hey, I watched the tape, it is fine, but you have to trust me. That doesn't work.

ODUOLOWU: Right. Listen, the agents that are supposed to contain and be peaceful and be the peacekeepers are the ones that shot this guy. The police are her agents. You want me to believe a police force that shot a black man and believe basically their boss, the mayor, that the tape is ambiguous. If I don't trust the police, I'm not going to trust their boss.

VAUSE: We are seeing now details of Keith Scott's background, his run-ins with the law, his time in jail.

ODUOLOWU: Victim shame.

VAUSE: Well --

ODUOLOWU: Victim shame.

VAUSE: From a legal point of view, would this be admissible?

CLAYPOOL: One word, irrelevant. It is absolutely irrelevant.

(CROSSTALK) CLAYPOOL: It is irrelevant in determining whether this was a justified shooting or not. The analysis is what is in the mind of the shooting officer at the moment he or she discharges the weapon. It's not what you find out after the fact.

And to that point, as well, even if there was a gun, even if there is a gun with Keith Scott, what was he intending to do with it? What information do we have from law enforcement about why he was there and whether he threatened them with the gun? It isn't just whether there is a gun or not.

VAUSE: Segun, last question for you. Someone made the criticism, if this is a white college boy charged with rape, the conversation would be oh, his future potential, what's he going to miss out on? In a case where an African-American is man is shot, oh, look at his past, he was a bad guy.

ODUOLOWU: Yeah. I hate that so much. Understand this, if a white kid rapes someone and gets a three-month sentence, that doesn't offend me as a black man. That offends me because justice wasn't served. The white kid should get the same amount of time as anyone regardless of color. When you are victim-shaming this black guy, saying he had prior run-ins with the law, you are finding an excuse of why they killed him, and that is horrible. If a young girl has a promiscuous past and do we shame her on the stand saying she had it coming. They are saying he was a bad guy and had it coming and this is a black guy.

VAUSE: And if he wasn't doing anything wrong now, he would have been --

(CROSSTALK)

ODUOLOWU: Yeah, it's like -- I hate that. I hate that so much.

VAUSE: We'll leave it there.

Segun, thanks for being with us.

Brian, as well, appreciate you coming.

CLAYPOOL: Thanks, John.

ODUOLOWU: Thanks, John.

VAUSE: And we'll take a short break. When we come back, another controversial police shooting of an African-American man, this one in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and now a police officer has been charged.

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[02:32:11] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. You are watching CNN's breaking news coverage. I'm John Vause, live in Los Angeles. It is just 11:32 here. The streets of Charlotte are clearing of protesters after a mostly

peaceful night of demonstrations. The protesters are demanding the release of two videos of a fatal police shooting of an African- American man. The family of Keith Lamont Scott says the videos do not prove that he was armed.

CNN Boris Sanchez spoke to one protester trying to keep things calm on the streets of Charlotte.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOUSSAINT ROMAIN, CHARLOTTE PUBLIC DEFENDER: This protest right now is much better. The clergy is here. Adults are here, black and white. There's not one incident of violence so far. The National Guard is here but nowhere around us at the moment. State highway patrol is here. State of emergency we've been declared? Look at how peaceful this is. This is what happens when leaders show up and when we come together as a nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Boris joins us live from Charlotte.

It really does seem the difference tonight was the presence of the community leaders actually being on the streets, and also having the reinforcements, the National Guard and state police, there as well.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, that certainly had to be on the mind of protesters, John.

That man I was speaking to, Toussaint Romain, is a public defender here in Charlotte. He was actually taking on quite a bit of tear gas yesterday as the events were unfolding down the street from us, and he was still standing there between protesters and police, trying to maintain order in chaos. Today, he came back here and he said he was pleased to see this scene. He talked about the diversity in the crowd, black, white, Latino, Asian people of all ages, coming together to voice their displeasure with the justice system, and the fact they didn't resort to the kind of agitating tactics that we saw them utilize on police yesterday. They got in the faces of police yesterday. We didn't see that today. There was glass thrown. We didn't see that today either.

A lot of that also had to do with the fact that police, for the most part, didn't confront them directly. There were police surrounding them at all times. As you saw, National Guard were deployed at several key points throughout Charlotte's downtown but there was no wall of police officers that we saw yesterday where protesters went right to them and started confronting them one on one. That made a huge difference.

At one point earlier in the night, after a prayer vigil for the 26- year-old man that was killed during protests yesterday, Justin Carr, there were several police officers -- two lines, several dozen of police officers in tactical gear surrounded by protesters. They immobilized and got out of the way. That's what we have seen, that incites that violence. When they throw things at police and get in their faces and yelling inciteful, hateful words that obviously put police on edge. It's not that long ago we were dealing with incidents in Baton Rouge and Dallas where police were targeted. As we are out here, it has to be in the back of their mind. It has to be a major concern for them as they deal with these large crowds.

[02:35:30] Again, fortunately tonight, there was peace on the streets of Charlotte. A 12:00 p.m. curfew was set in place. Police said as long as the protesters remain peaceful, they wouldn't interfere. They didn't. And the protesters went home peacefully. There were a few that wound up on the highway where tear gas was dispersed and people were arrested but, again, not nearly as bad as last night.

I should also mention two police officers had to be treated for some kind of wounds to their eyes because some kind of gas was launched at them. That is still under investigation right now. It does not compare to the violence we saw on the street last night -- John?

VAUSE: Boris Sanchez, live at 2:36 in the morning there in Charlotte, North Carolina, where it does appear to be calm. Boris, thank you.

From North Carolina, we will head to Oklahoma, where the family of a man killed by police say they are happy the officer involved faces criminal charges. Tulsa Police Officer Betty Shelby shot and killed Terence Crutcher last week. The shooting was recorded on video from a number of different angles but there are still different accounts of what happened.

Here's Sara Sidner.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The district attorney here in Tulsa announcing charged against Officer Betty Jo Shelby. She could either be charged with manslaughter first-degree heat of passion, which is a felony, or manslaughter first-degree, resisting criminal attempt, also a felony. She could face, if convicted, four years minimum, in prison, up to life in prison.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: It's about to happen.

SIDNER (voice-over): Less than a week after the killing of Terence Crutcher, the district attorney decided to charge Tulsa Officer Betty Shelby.

STEVE KUNZWEILER, TULSA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: In the matter of the death of Terence Crutcher, I have determined the filing of the felony crime of manslaughter in the first degree against Tulsa Police Officer Betty Shelby is warranted.

SIDNER: While family and community grieve Crutcher's death, the attorneys have already begun to make their cases in the court of public opinion. A key issue, whether Crutcher was reaching for something inside the SUV window before he was shot. SCOTT WOOD, ATTORNEY: She was yelling at him to stop for probably at

least 10 to 15 seconds. He gets to the window of the SUV and has his hands in the air and looks down at the side of the car and at Officer Shelby and his left hand goes into the window.

SIDNER: Crutcher's family attorney points to an enhance picture of the window in question.

MELVIN C. HALL, ATTORNEY FOR TERENCE CRUTCHER FAMILY: You can see it is completely up and there's blood going almost to the top of the window.

SIDNER: We analyzed the video frame by frame, zooming in. It appears the window is up and a reflection of his arms are in the window.

Outside of law enforcement, Pastor Ray Owens was one of the first to look at the video before it was released.

(on camera): What did you see?

RAY OWENS, PASTOR & WITNESS: My impression was he was leaning against the car so as to position himself to not be a threat. I did not see anything in that video that suggests that the police officer should have viewed Terence Crutcher as a threat.

SIDNER (voice-over): While evidence can seems inconclusive, prosecutors say it is never the only evidence brought to trial.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Any piece of evidence, but not inclusive or conclusive. So video is a piece of the puzzle, it's not the entire puzzle.

SIDNER (voice-over): We spoke to a forensic scientist who is not connected to the case and had him look at the video, as well. In his opinion, it looked like the window may have well been open from different angles. So this is what you will see in a trial, if the trial goes forward, and that is you will have experts saying different things depending on if they are for the defense or for the prosecution.

Sara Sidner, CNN, Tulsa, Oklahoma.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[02:39:29] VAUSE: Next here on NEWSROOM L.A., how Donald Trump is using the unrest in Charlotte to try and appeal to African-American voters.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. Protesters in Charlotte, North Carolina, has cleared the downtown area, and police say they will not enforce a midnight-to-6:00 a.m. curfew provided everything remains calm. Thursday's demonstrations went off almost without incident. Two officers were treated after protesters sprayed them with a chemical agent. But it was a different night compared to Wednesday when 44 people were arrested and rioters threw rocks and bottles and smashed store front window and one person was killed.

While Charlotte has been protesting the deadly killing of Keith Lamont Scott, Donald Trump has been condemning the demonstrators that turned to violence. He has called for a national anti-crime agenda and he is also appealing to African-Americans to join his campaign.

Let's bring in Eric Bauman, a California Democratic Party vice chairman; and John Phillips, who is a CNN political commentator and a Donald Trump supporter.

North Carolina is an important state. It's a swing state. What impact do you think the riots, the police shootings could have? Absentee voting started back on September 9th.

JOHN PHILLIPS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's right. We always talk about Election Day. There's no election day anymore. There's election season.

VAUSE: We're well in it.

VAUSE: Prior to it.

We don't know what the consequences will be. There are candidates that have won elections based on a law-and-order platform when you have had violence like this. If you go back to the Reagan campaign for governor in the state of California, part of the reason he won the election is there was chaos at the University of California, Berkeley, and other campuses. And he was able to take that disgust in the public of what was going on and the chaos and violence and ride it to Sacramento.

VAUSE: Eric, do you think this will help the law-and-order Donald Trump.

ERIC BAUMAN, CALIFORNIA DEMOCRATIC PARTY VICE CHAIR: People have long since divided up on where they stand between these two candidates. It's now about incrementalism.

I think what Donald Trump has done by his words and deeds, his shifting rhetoric, is he's increased the likelihood that people of color are going to turn out and vote because of the kind of language that he uses, and not vote for him but for Hillary. I think it becomes a clear difference between them. You can use the soft words that you want, you can't make a statement walk it back, make another statement, and next day make a statement that sounds racist and think you are getting away with it.

[02:45:20] PHILLIPS: On that point, I think Hillary Clinton has a problem with voter enthusiasm. My office is in a Democratic part of Los Angeles, a very black part of Los Angeles. In 2008 and 2012, every time you walk down the street you would see someone wearing an Obama hat, Obama shirt, stickers everywhere. I haven't seen one Hillary sticker, one Hillary hat or T-shirt in the neighborhood. She may politically try to use this incident to try to spike minority turnout because she needs to do something in that regard if she is going to win. VAUSE: When Donald Trump talks about endorsing Stop and Frisk, even

though he meant for Chicago, not nationwide.

BAUMAN: We don't know what he meant.

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: But that motivates African-American voters. If there is a lack of motivation for Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump is --

PHILLIPS: I'm going to say, I'm not so sure. I keep hearing about the enthusiasm deficit. I'm all around California. I go to every part of the state from the most rural to the most urban. I'm not so sure there's such a lack of enthusiasm that people say this is. It may not be as visible as it was, but I think Californians play in a different way. I can tell you that California is sending thousands of volunteers to places like Nevada and Arizona to help to make sure those swing states vote blue.

VAUSE: We talk about the shifting rhetoric. And we have an example of that tonight with Donald Trump. He was at a campaign stop in Philadelphia. He was talking about the violence in Charlotte. He was sympathetic to the African-American community. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They are rioting in our streets and it is a threat to all peaceful citizens and it must be ended and ended now.

(CHEERING)

TRUMP: The main victims of these violent demonstrations are law abiding African-Americans in these communities and only want to raise their children in safety and peace and with a good education. That's what they want, and we're going to give that to them. We're going to give that to them.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: But earlier in the day, there's an ad-libbed moment when he talked about drugs being the cause of the violence that people are seeing on their televisions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I will stop the drugs from flowing in to our country and poisoning our youth and many other people. If you are not aware, drugs are a very big factor in what you are watching on television at night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And, John, this is a white stereotype in many ways because drug use is pretty much the same between races.

PHILLIPS: I don't think it is fuelling what is going on right now in Charlotte.

VAUSE: It is a stereotype.

PHILLIPS: If you look at the stats, look at burglaries, minor crimes, property theft, those sorts of things, addiction to drugs is a major factor. It is not at play here. If he sticks to the first one, that message that would be a good tone for him to play out in this election.

BAUMAN: Let's be clear. This is known as a dog whistle. This is a silent signal that is sent to white nationalist supporters to let them know he's with them and shares their feelings and the second speech that you heard is what his newly hired political team that's trying to save him and make him acceptable to the broad main stream America put in to his teleprompter for him to say. What he said without the teleprompter is who he is.

VAUSE: Let me maximize what you said. Take it back to the ledge. Is Donald Trump having problems balancing what his base wants to hear with what he needs to say to reach out to minority communities, minority voters?

PHILLIPS: He's not going to win the minority vote. He's doing better than Mitt Romney recent polling showed among Latino voter and better than Mitt Romney in some polls among black voters.

VAUSE: We had Barack Obama on the ballot the last couple of times.

(CROSSTALK)

BAUMAN: This is happy talk. Make believe talk. He is not --

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: It's true.

BAUMAN: He's below 10 percent among African-Americans and below 20 percent with Latinos in every respected national poll, period.

PHILLIPS: He's doing better than Romney.

PHILLIPS: I don't think that is true and I don't think that is a fair comparison. Here's the reality. This is a candidate whose entire candidacy began with his questioning the legitimacy of the first African-American president if he was born in this nation. This campaign has been built on that from the beginning. And his xenophobia, misogyny and racism have continued to show. And only when he brought in a professional team to clean him up and soften his edges because they know he's turning off more voters than he's alluring.

[02:50:26] VAUSE: John, I have to give you the last word.

PHILLIPS: All the calls of Donald Trump being a racist or xenophobic, it's not working. Right now, according to Nate Silver, his poll numbers are going up. The trends are going up not just nationally but in the states. And I think he is in a good position going into the debates.

VAUSE: We'll leave it there, guys. Thank you so much for the talk. 40 days until the election and the debate on Monday. Long way to go yet.

Thank you.

We'll take a short break. When we come back, while protesters railed against the police in Charlotte, one man chose to hug police officers instead. We will hear from him in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: Welcome back. Most of the protesters in Charlotte, North Carolina, have left the downtown area and even the police and National Guard troops are thinning out after a third night of demonstrations over the police shooting and killing of Keith Lamont Scott. Thursday's demonstrations were mostly peaceful. The mayor ordered a curfew from midnight-to-6:00 a.m. after protests earlier this week turned violent.

[02:55:05] One activist is trying to calm tensions by giving out free hugs. Ken Nwadike started the Free Hugs Project two years ago after the Boston bombings. He has traveled the United States with a message of peace and is trying to spread love in Charlotte.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEN NWADIKE, ACTIVIST & CREATOR, FREE HUGS PROJECT: I think there's this idea that people have, well, I'm angry and so I'm going to lash out. That's not the way to move about it. I try to make sure when I'm out I'm reminding people that love and peaceful protests and things like that is the way to get past some of these thing and sit down and have real discussions as human beings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Thank you for joining us. I'm John Vause, in Los Angeles.

Stay with us. Natalie Allen will have more on the breaking news coverage right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)