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Obama Set to Veto Law Allowing 9/11 Victims to Sue Saudi Arabia; New Details on NY/NJ Bombing Suspect; New Video of Police Shooting of Keith Lamont Scott. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired September 23, 2016 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:33:51] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Today, President Obama is set to veto legislation allowing families of 9/11 victims to sue the government of Saudi Arabia, but he could be setting himself up for a showdown with Congress. Many lawmakers said they would try to override his veto.
Our chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, joins us from Washington.
Jim, the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act, as it's called, passed overwhelmingly in the House and Senate without any opposition, really. Why does the president oppose it?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: View, the administration's view is if U.S. citizens are allowed to sue the Saudi Arabian government, then the U.S. government would likely be subject to lawsuits by the citizens of other countries, particularly acknowledging that you have the U.S. military active in many countries, you have drone strikes where a matter of fact that civilians often end up getting killed in those strikes. The central administration suspicion is this will put the U.S. government and potentially U.S. soldiers at risk and that's why the president is set to veto it and told that veto is likely to come before 5:00 today.
BLITZER: The veto, and then up to the House and Senate to try could override that veto. They need 34 Senators, for example, to side with the president, and not vote to override the veto. But it looks like that's going to be very, very hard for the president's supporters in the Senate to come up with that number. What are you hearing?
[13:35:17] SCIUTTO: Right. In fact, CNN is reporting that they do have the votes to override the president's veto both in the Senate and House and likely to come, of course, the Senate and House are back in session next weekend that vote could come as soon as next week and things move quickly. I've spoken to lawyers for the 9/11 families saying initially this will render moot a current court case challenging this exception, in effect, fighting for the right to sue the Saudi Arabian government. If this passes, then, of course, they have that right and that legal proceeding is moot and they will quickly move on to the case itself, which is holding the Saudi Arabian government to account for 9/11. BLITZER: And the bottom line is that not just military personnel,
American military personnel, the White House, the president fears could be endangered, but American diplomats serving around the world as well, right?
SCIUTTO: That's right. That's the administration's argument. Talk to lawyers of the victims' family, they have a different point of view and here a different point of view and a different point of view in Congress, which does look to have the votes to override the president's objection here.
BLITZER: We'll see what the president does. That veto expected to be delivered before 5:00 p.m. eastern.
Jim Sciutto, thank you very much.
Also getting new details about the New York and New Jersey bombings. Look at this surveillance video. Police say they believe that Ahmad Rahami planted a suitcase or bag containing a pressure cooker Saturday night and then two men are later seen removing the explosives from that luggage and placing it on the sidewalk. Police are still looking for those two men hoping to gain more information. They have not shown up yet.
Joining us now to go through the details, our justice correspondent, Pamela Brown; and former New York City police detective, Tom Verni.
Pamela, investigators put together a detailed timeline on Rahami's movements. Lay that out for us.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: They've been looking at the time before he placed the bombs in Seaside, New Jersey, and in Manhattan, then entered the Manhattan through the Lincoln Tunnel two hours before placing the bomb on 23rd Street and 27th Street and left several hours later.
We learned through interviews that family members have done that Rahami apparently went home Sunday morning, hours after allegedly placing those bombs in Manhattan, and his family told investigators he was acting normal. He wasn't acting suspicious. That had no idea what happened earlier.
And investigators are piecing together a timeline of his moments overseas, a trip he took to Pakistan for a year, 2013 to 2014. And in that time also went to Afghanistan and Turkey, we've learned. Officials want to know if, perhaps while in Turkey, if he tried to get into Syria. His father told the in "The "New York Times" and Associate Press that Rahami came back a changed man after that year- long trip to Pakistan. He said he was bad, contacted the FBI, was interviewed by the FBI. There are different accounts of that interview. The law enforcement officials we've spoke with say the father downplayed concerns about his son, but the father has a different view -- Wolf?
BLITZER: Pamela, hold on for a moment. Tom, this a clip from one of Rahami's neighbors who, days before the bombing efforts, was hearing explosives going off in the backyard of his home. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED NEIGHBOR OF AHMAD RAHAMI: But they would set up these cylinder blocks into, like, a square formation, don't know what they would use it for, because there were separate areas where they were burning garbage, but -- when they actually used it, don't know if they were using it to muffle the noise, but it would be late at night, and we would think that it's the neighbor, whenever he slammed his car door. But this time it was so loud, it just woke up everybody from upstairs. They actually were the one that took a look and they were testing some kind of explosive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Tom, what could come from this kind of information?
TOM VERNI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE DETECTIVE: What fascinates me, many times you have people that have bits of information, which at the time may not make sense, yet they don't reach out to law enforcement, which is troubling. Someone setting off explosives in your backyard or subsequently your neighbor's, that might make me call authorities and say someone's setting up explosives in the House next door to tip them off. If for nothing else, if they went initially to check out that report of an explosive, you know, being set off, then that could have tipped them off to keep this from being prevented from the get- go. That's why it's imperative that people report things that they -- that don't make sense, don't fit. They know what's right and what's wrong for their neighborhoods and their respective surroundings. If the see something that's wrong they really should contact authorities to help prevent something like this from happening again.
[13:40:28] BLITZER: Tom, hold on a moment. There's breaking news coming in to CNN. We're getting our first look right now at video of that fatal police
shooting of Keith Lamont Scott in Charlotte -- Charlotte, North Carolina. I want to play the video for our viewers right now. The video shot by Scott's wife.
I want to warn viewers as well it is graphic, and disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAKIA SCOTT, WIFE OF KEITH LAMONT SCOTT: Don't shoot him. Don't shoot him. He has no weapon. He has no weapon. Don't shoot him.
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Drop the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gun.
SCOTT: Don't shoot him.
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Drop the gun.
SCOTT: He didn't do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Drop the gun. Drop the gun.
SCOTT: He doesn't have a gun. He has a TBI.
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Drop the gun.
SCOTT: He's not going to do anything to you guys. He just took his medicine.
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Drop the gun! I'm getting (EXPLETIVE DELETED) over here.
SCOTT: Keith, don't let them break the windows. Come on out the car.
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Drop the gun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right. Pretty disturbing video.
On the phone we have the Scott family attorney, Eduardo Curry, joining us.
Tell us about this video, Eduardo. It was shot by Mr. Scott's wife?
EDUARDO CURRY, SCOTT FAMILY ATTORNEY (voice-over): That is correct, Wolf. His wife shot it, because she was present at the time this encounter occurred with Mr. Scott and the police.
BLITZER: So what's your analysis of the video, Eduardo? Clearly, the police keep saying, "Drop the gun, drop the gun." Go ahead?
CURRY: And I hear the wife saying, he doesn't have a gun. In fact, when she's saying, don't do it, because she's saying, Keith, don't let them break out the windows. Don't do it. Just don't -- don't do anything. If they want you out, come on out. That's what Mr. Scott did. Came out very timidly, non-aggressively. Not pointing any weapons. We don't believe he had -- we don't believe that there was any reason for Mr. Scott to lose his life.
BLITZER: Why did you -- why do you think we kept hearing the police say, repeatedly -- and the video is a lot longer than we showed -- "Drop the gun, drop the gun, drop the gun?"
CURRY: We still don't know, Wolf. We still don't know what object that was there. If you'll look closely with it, it appears that when he's down on the video, that Mrs. Scott actually took, you know, there is no evidence of anything, and then mysterious some object appears. At this point we don't know what object that is. As to date, I've not seen any evidence that there is a physical gun. No has produced that, no pictures that we can discernibly see.
(CROSSTALK) CURRY: Where we are at in this is that we want the world and CNN to see, this is what she shot. It's not edited. It's not enhanced. It's not doctored. We just want the world to see what we believe are some facts.
BLITZER: Eduardo, have you given this video to the local law enforcement?
CURRY: It's my understanding they have a copy of it.
BLITZER: And you have seen the other video, dash cam and body cam video. You've seen that? Correct.
CURRY: Correct.
BLITZER: What did you see?
CURRY: What I saw a terrified man in his vehicle while the police were around the vehicle, beating on it with batons, telling him, giving him all kinds of commands, and when he exited, he exited timidly. He existed non-aggressively. He exited with his hands down, and started backing away from what he perceived to be a police show of authority, and then, at some point, someone fired, shot him and killed him.
BLITZER: And is it clear, because we've heard the Police Chief Kerr Putney, of Charlotte, suggest that there's no real evidence that the -- that Mr. Scott actually pointed the gun in that video. It sort of is hazy, if you will.
CURRY: Wolf, I can tell you with certainty that I did not see Mr. Scott brandish, point, or present a firearm or a gun or weapon at any point during the video. In fact, the video is even clear enough to see that his right-hand, which he's right-hand dominant, is actually clear, and we're not sure what the left-hand shows. But at this point, we don't believe that there was what they say it was.
BLITZER: Because, as you know, all of these reports are out there, Eduardo, that they did find a gun. They believe it was his gun, that he was holding that gun. And they also say -- reports suggesting his fingerprints were found on the gun. You've heard those reports. I'd love to get your reaction.
[13:45:22] CURRY: I've not seen one independent verification that says his fingerprints were on any weapon. I've not seen a weapon presented. Attorney Bamberg has not seen a weapon presented. Attorney Monet has not seen a weapon presented. What we are doing is just showing facts and allowing you as the media and the world to look into this shooting and to see whether or not it was justified.
BLITZER: Let me play another clip from the video. This is the video that Mr. Scott's wife shot. I'm going to play, it Eduardo, and then we'll continue this conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SCOTT: I'm not coming to you guys, but he better live. He better live. Y'all hear that? You see this, right? He better live. He better live. I swear, he better live. Yep. He better live. He better (EXPLETIVE DELETED) live. He better live. Where is -- he better (EXPLETIVE DELETED) live. And I can't even believe -- I ain't going nowhere. I'm in the same spot. (EXPLETIVE DELETED). That's OK. Did y'all call the police? I mean did y'all call the (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I'm not coming to you guys but he better live.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Eduardo Curry is the family attorney. I want your reaction. That's very powerful, very dramatic video.
CURRY: It is very dramatic. Rarely do you get an opportunity where a family member can illuminate on a situation. What I would ask y'all to do, there is a still photo floating around which apparently shows some object that was there, that was supposed to be an object that the police says it is. If you take the opportunity to look at the position of Mr. Scott in the area where the police say that object would have been, use your common sense, your judgment, and your observation. Ask yourself when did that object appear? Ask yourself, how did the object get there? You look at that tape, you might be able to see some things that would help illuminate the situation.
BLITZER: Why, Eduardo, has it taken so long, several days, to release this tape?
CURRY: The one that that's occurred, think about this, Wolf, a couple engaged in a 20-year marriage and a 25-year relationship, and seven children, and all of a sudden the patriarch is jerked away from the family in such a horrific way. It's tough enough to talk to them about what happened without talking to our lawyers and the team about strategies. We've not been in this case but since September 20th, merely two or three days ago. So between just -- just showing the family what they need to be doing, focusing on the protection of the family, and just a catastrophic situation that has occurred, it takes time to actually build a case, but it also takes time to nurture to people hurting physically, spiritually, emotionally and psychologically. So that's what's going on.
BLITZER: How is she doing, Mrs. Scott, the wife, who actually shot this video?
CURRY: She's not doing well, as you can imagine. She's in deep mourning. In fact, Wolf, you've not heard her make one statement except the written statements that we've issued out, because she has not been ready to face the media. That's why she has a team of lawyers to deal with the things that are going on, but she and her seven children are distraught.
BLITZER: Eduardo Curry is the family attorney.
Eduardo, thank you very much for joining us.
CURRY: Thank you, Wolf. BLITZER: All right. Let's get analysis. Our senior law enforcement
analyst, Tom Fuentes, is with us; as well as former NYPD detective, Tom Verni.
Tom Fuentes, first to you.
What's your reaction? A dramatic, powerful video we've just shown our viewers.
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I think the problem, Wolf, with watching these is that, in many cases, to me, they add a little bit more confusion instead of clarity. And I watched that trying to see exactly what was happening. It was difficult. And that's why, you know, in one way, the police do hesitate to release piece by piece these videos because they can be interpreted however you wish to interpret them. And I think at this point I would -- I would wait for more of the forensics of this case, the crime scene examination and diagrams, all of the work that went into it, and is going to go into the investigation yet to come.
And I think that the problem here for me is that it doesn't clarify the situation enough in my mind.
[13:50:11] BLITZER: What about you, Tom Verni?
VERNI: Yeah, it doesn't -- from the vantage point watching the video you clearly cannot even see him, you can't see his hands, you can't see where the police are in relation to him. I would like the police to release their videos, quite frankly. There are some law enforcement are saying, no, they shouldn't do that, that's their policy. Me, personally, one of the reasons for having body cams and dash cams is to have the transparency so police can take the video, make it part of their investigation to get where they need to be, but also to provide transparency for the community so they can see the vantage point of the police officer and make their own determination, which they'll do anyway. Perception is nine-tenths of the law now anyways. So people will make their own determinations based on what they think they know. If you provide that video for them and they can see what the police is seeing, then we can base our judgments much more clearly on the facts and not hearsay and conjecture.
BLITZER: You want -- Tom Fuentes, do you think they should release the video of local law enforcement?
FUENTES: Wolf, I would agree with Tom at this point. I think initially you wouldn't want one video or a couple videos when there's a whole package of them that need to go out, but now that these videos are going out, you might as well. I don't know what's to be gained now with a further delay in releasing the body cam or dash cam videos.
BLITZER: One thing you could hear, Tom Verni, on the footage we showed our viewers, and it went on several seconds, the police screaming, "Drop the gun" other and over again. This went on for a while. In your experience, police say to someone, "drop the gun," they may be confused. Maybe he's holding something that doesn't look like a gun but it's not really a gun? VERNI: In my experience, when I have ever told someone to drop the
gun, they had a gun, so there was no confusion in my mind as to what they had in their hands. So by them screaming multiple times and commanding him multiple times to drop the gun, I would hope that they pretty much at that point come to the conclusion he did have a gun, which they felt in fear of their safety.
BLITZER: Because the wife, Tom Fuentes, is saying as the police were saying, Drop the gun, drop the gun, drop the gun," and it went on for a while, she was saying, "He doesn't have a gun." You heard her on that video say that powerfully.
FUENTES: If they're looking straight at him and see a gun I don't know what her screaming is going to help. And when she says he has a TBI, I don't know what that is, unfortunately. But I've been in this situation several times and, fortunately, for me and the other person, when I yelled at them drop the gun, they drop the gun.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Let's play the video, Tom. Listen to this. Let's play the video one more time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Drop the gun. Drop the gun.
SCOTT: He doesn't have a gun. He has a TBI.
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Drop the gun.
SCOTT: He's not going to do anything to you guys. He just took his medicine.
UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Drop the gun!
SCOTT: I'm not coming to you guys, but he better live. He better live. Y'all hear this? You see this, right? He better live. He better live. I swear he better live. Yup. He better live. He better (EXPLETIVE DELETED) live. He better live. Where is -- he better -- I can't even believe this. I ain't going nowhere. I'm in the same (EXPLETIVE DELETED) spot. (EXPLETIVE DELETED). That's OK. Did y'all call the police? I mean, did ya'll call --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right, so you can see that was going on for about 40, 45 seconds there.
Tom Verni, your analysis?
VERNI: She's clearly upset and she has every right to be upset.
I mean, look, I feel awful for her. I feel awful for the family that this had to end -- any time a police interaction ends with the death of someone you have to be empathetic to the family. Having said that, I also -- if there was a gun presented where the
officers felt that they were in fear of their safety, then, by the law, by their regulations, they have every right to use deadly physical force. But whether -- you know we need to see additional video to corroborate whether or not that was the case.
BLITZER: We still have with us Reverend Robin Tanner and Reverend Corine Mack, who were both watching this video even as we're watching the video.
Reverend Tanner, let me get your reaction when you heard Mr. Scott screaming out, you heard the police screaming, "Drop the gun, drop the gun," what's your reaction?
REV. ROBIN TANNER, PASTOR: My first reaction was the shock and the pain of watching a human life being lost. Watching a man's life be taken. That is still my reaction at this moment, as well as gratitude for the family for what I would imagine the courage and difficulty and pain it took to release this video.
BLITZER: Minister Mack?
[13:55:19] REV. CORINE MACK, PASTOR: I can tell you, watching it myself, I'm still in shock. I can imagine the trauma Mrs. Scott must have been in, watching her husband die before her face. I'd like to extend condolences to the Scott family. It's horrifying.
TANNER: With the release of this video --
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Go ahead, Reverend Tanner.
TANNER: With the release of this video, given that the family has released it, the CMPD ought to release the rest of the videos.
MACK: Absolutely. There's no reason not to release all the videos now.
TANNER: We need to have all of the perspectives, all of the pieces brought to the public.
MACK: Absolutely. And that video is only giving us one angle. I'm sure that CMPD has additional video that would give us different angle. We need to be very transparent at this point.
And I want to thank the family as well for releasing that video, giving us an opportunity to see at least part of what she saw and what she experienced. God bless that family.
BLITZER: A very powerful video. I wonder what the impact in the community is going to be when everyone starts watching the video, listening to Mrs. Scott, and she appeals to the police, "He doesn't have a gun." The police keep saying, "Drop the gun, drop the gun."
We're going to stay on top of this story. I want to thank Corine Mack, Robin Tanner.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Tom Verni, thanks to you as well, Tom Fuentes.
CNN will stay on top of this story.
That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."
The news will continue right here on CNN after a quick break.
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