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Clinton, Trump Clash At First Debate; Trump Claims Clinton Was Spared Tough Questions; Trump Defends Role In "Birther" Claims; Trump, Clinton Clash on "Stop-and-Frisk" Tactics. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired September 27, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:18] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton return to the campaign trail today even as the smoke clears from last night's first Presidential Debate.

No sooner had the handshake ended, the claws came out. Blistering insults and accusations fly. Clinton goes on the attack and puts Trump on the defensive. Today, both candidates claiming victory. And now, it's Trump on the attack. He says last night's moderator gave Clinton a pass by not asking tough questions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, he didn't ask her about the e-mails at all. He didn't ask her about her scandals. He didn't ask her about the Benghazi deal that she destroyed. He didn't ask her about a lot of things that she should have been asked about. I mean, you know, there's no question about it. He did not --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you think that is?

TRUMP: He didn't ask her about her foundation.

ROBBY MOOK, CAMPAIGN MANAGER, HILLARY FOR AMERICA: Nothing came up about Donald Trump's foundation, this -- you know, the six-foot portrait of himself that he bought with those charitable dollars, you know, the lawsuits he paid for against his enemies.

You know, there's two more debates, lots of time for this to come up. But, again, you know, Trump wants to talk about anything but the actual issues that people care about, and that's because he didn't prepare. He didn't show up ready to talk about the things that matter in people's lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Our correspondents, analysts and experts are here to break it all down for you, but let's begin with CNN's Phil Mattingly with the highlights and the low lights. Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, I don't think anybody was shocked but there are a few low lights. Look, the campaigns went into this with really clear decisive messages that they wanted to convey to the tens of millions of people that were watching.

For Donald Trump, it was that he was breaking the status quo. He was wrecking what has kind of set Washington back over the last couple of decades. For Hillary Clinton, it's that she is ready for the Oval Office. She is prepared, not just for the Oval Office, but also for the debate. But I think as we all expected, there were going to be punches thrown and we certainly saw a few haymakers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLINTON: I have a feeling that by the end of this evening, I'm going to be blamed for everything that's ever happened.

TRUMP: Why not?

CLINTON: Why not? Yes, why not?

MATTINGLY (voice-over): The highly anticipated duel between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton began with an exchanging of pleasantries.

TRUMP: Secretary Clinton -- yes, is that okay? Good. I want you to be very happy.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): But it didn't take long for the gloves to come off.

CLINTON: The kind of plan that Donald has put forth would be trickle- down economics all over again. I call it "Trumped up trickle-down."

TRUMP: NAFTA is the worst trade deal maybe ever signed anywhere but certainly ever signed in this country, and now you want to approve Trans-Pacific Partnership.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Trump repeatedly casting Clinton as a typical politician while attempting to portray himself as a change agent.

TRUMP: You've been doing this for 30 years. Why are you just thinking about these solutions right now?

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Clinton putting Trump on the defensive for much of the debate baiting the GOP nominee on his business record.

CLINTON: Donald was one of the people who rooted for the housing crisis. He said, back in 2006, gee, I hope it does collapse because then I can go in and buy some and make some money. Well, it did collapse. Nine --

TRUMP: That's called business, by the way.

CLINTON: Nine million people, nine million people lost their jobs.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Challenging him on his refusal to release his tax returns.

TRUMP: I will release my tax returns against my lawyer's wishes when she releases her 33,000 e-mails that have been deleted.

CLINTON: Maybe he doesn't want the American people, all of you watching tonight, to know that he's paid nothing in Federal taxes.

TRUMP: That makes me smart.

CLINTON: If he's paid zero, that means zero for troops, zero for vets, zero for schools or health.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Trump pouncing on Clinton about her use of private e-mail but not dwelling on it.

CLINTON: I made a mistake using a private e-mail.

TRUMP: That's for sure.

CLINTON: And if I had to do it over again, I would obviously do it differently.

TRUMP: That was more than a mistake. That was done purposely.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): And insisting she can't be trusted.

TRUMP: I have much better judgment than she does. There's no question about that. I also have a much better temperament than she has.

CLINTON: Whew, OK.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Trump on the defensive over years of false claims that President Obama wasn't born in the U.S.

TRUMP: I think I did a great job and a great service not only for the country but even for the President in getting him to produce his birth certificate.

LESTOR HOLT, PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE MODERATOR: Secretary Clinton.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Clinton hitting Trump hard dubbing his crusade racist.

CLINTON: He tried to put the whole racist birther lie to bed, but it can't be dismissed that easily. So he has a long record of engaging in racist behavior, and the birther lie was a very hurtful one.

[09:05:11] MATTINGLY (voice-over): Debate moderator Lester Holt fact checking in real time. Trump insisting he did not support the Iraq War despite proof that he did.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I did not support the war in Iraq.

HOLT: -- in 2002.

TRUMP: That is a mainstream media nonsense put out by her, and I -- HOLT: The record shows otherwise. So why was --

TRUMP: The record does not show that.

HOLT: -- is your judgment any --

TRUMP: The record shows that I'm right.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): The fiery debate ending on a personal attack of Clinton.

TRUMP: She doesn't have the look. She doesn't have the stamina. I said she doesn't have the stamina, and I don't believe she does have the stamina. To be President of this country, you need tremendous stamina.

CLINTON: As soon as he travels to 112 countries and negotiates a peace deal, a cease-fire, a release of dissidents, an opening of new opportunities in nations around the world, or even spends 11 hours testifying in front of a congressional committee, he can talk to me about stamina.

TRUMP: Hillary has experience but it's bad experience.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): But the veteran debater fought back at Trump's critiques.

CLINTON: I think Donald just criticized me for preparing for this debate and, yes, I did. And you know what else I prepared for? I prepared to be President, and I think that's a good thing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Carol, to give you a sense of how the campaigns are trying to frame this, you're hearing kind of one specific word from each. From the Clinton campaign, it's that Trump was unhinged. From the Trump advisers that I've spoken to, it's that Clinton was scripted, trying an innocuous, sure, a tacit acknowledgment that she might have had a good night but that's because all of those answers were prepared for her.

There's also a probable sense of frustration about what you talked about in the intro, Carol, that they felt that they weren't asked the questions that they could attack on. But here's kind of the issue when you talk to Republican operatives who were involved in debates. It's up to the candidate to decide what he's going to attack on so there's not a lot there to work with. Still, expect to hear that a lot in the days ahead, some complaints there.

Two debates left. Those issues will certainly be addressed then. And today, both candidates obviously back on the campaign trail. It's swing state time. Donald Trump in Florida, Hillary Clinton in North Carolina. Carol?

COSTELLO: All right. Phil Mattingly, many thanks to you. So let's talk about this now. With me now, Maeve Reston, CNN national political reporter; Errol Louis, political anchor for New York 1 News; Julian Zelizer, Princeton historian and professor; and Ed Lee, director of debate for Emory University. Welcome to all of you.

All right. So Mr. Trump has been tweeting all morning long about how he won this debate. You heard him say that Lester Holt didn't ask Hillary Clinton tough questions but posed tough questions to him, but I must point out that's not what Mr. Trump said last night to CNN's Dylan Byers. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I thought Lester did a great job.

DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR REPORTER FOR MEDIA AND POLITICS: OK.

TRUMP: I thought -- honestly, I thought he did a great job.

BYERS: You thought the questions were fair?

TRUMP: Yes, I thought he was good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, Maeve, which is it?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: I mean, you know, there's a lot of things that moderators are supposed to do, but they don't have to cue up your attacks for you. That's the whole point of debate preparation, is that you figure out which answers you can pivot to the subjects that you want to pivot to, which Donald Trump should have figured out on Benghazi, on the Clinton Foundation, and he really missed an opportunity there in that sense.

Whereas, you saw Hillary Clinton, because she was more prepared, kind of weaving in a clever way the issues that she wanted to bait Trump on and he took the bait on those. But --

COSTELLO: So all of a sudden now, it's the moderator's fault that he didn't weave in Benghazi?

RESTON: Yes. I mean, you can't complain about not having your attacks cued up. It just doesn't make any sense. That's not their job.

COSTELLO: So, Errol, today, he's come out and he's attacking the mainstream media and he is attacking Lester Holt. These are tactics we've heard from before from Democrats and Republicans.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sure. Sure, why not?

COSTELLO: Because last night he said Lester Holt did a great job.

LOUIS: Well, of course. I mean, like, he's got to say something, right? If the polls come back, and I think even his advisers would acknowledge that he didn't do some of the things that he had hoped to do. You know, he clearly had people sprinkled in the audience. He never referenced those people. He had points that he wanted to make; he never got to those points.

And the reality is Lester Holt gave them all the room that they needed to sort of pivot. They didn't have to -- neither candidate had to wait for a question. He let them do something that he was wise to do, Lester Holt. He just let them kind of go at it for a while, you know.

And so if there was a question that Donald Trump thought that Hillary Clinton should have been asked, he could have asked it. He could have asked it out of the blue. He could have pivoted from another answer. He could have brought up the topics that he thought were important.

Because if you look back to what the broad areas of concern were that were announced in advance, you know, America's place in the world. You know, it's a very general kind of a debate that was set up, and I thought he had, you know, multiple opportunities. I think she really got to him. She had him back on his heels. She pushed on -- she pushed buttons that he did not want pushed, and he didn't really react very well.

[09:10:10] COSTELLO: So, Julian, we know Donald Trump blamed Lester Holt for perhaps what were his shortcomings last night, but he also blamed the microphone. He said he had microphone problems and the reason he was talking about these microphone problems is because he kept sniffling through the night and he kept taking sips of water. But let's talk with the sniffling first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Hundreds and hundreds of companies are doing this. Is that okay? Good. We used certain laws that are there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So many viewers, Julian, were wondering if Trump was a little bit under the weather. Mr. Trump appeared on "Fox and Friends" and he addressed that. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The AFL-CIO the other day, behind the blue screen, I don't know who you were talking to, Secretary Clinton, but you were --

STEVE DOOCY, CO-HOST, FOX AND FRIENDS: What's the deal with the sniffles? You know, I heard you in, I think, the first answer. It sounded like you had seasonal allergies or a little cold. What's up with that?

TRUMP: No, no sniffles. No. You know, the mike was very bad, but maybe it was good enough to hear breathing but there was no sniffles. I don't have --

AINSLEY EARHARDT, CO-HOST, FOX AND FRIENDS: I don't know.

TRUMP: I have no allergies.

DOOCY: So you didn't have a cold? TRUMP: No, no cold.

DOOCY: OK.

EARHARDT: OK. We thought --

TRUMP: Every once in a while, but no, no cold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, Julian, I bring this up. You know, Mr. Trump said he had a bad mic. He didn't have a cold. There were microphone problems. And yet, at the end of this debate, he talked about Hillary Clinton's stamina. And I'm sure Clinton's supporters sort of pounced on that and said, come on, he had a cold or there was something else up with him.

JULIAN ZELIZER, PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Right, so now we have "Snifflegate." You know, I think sometimes these debates can turn to the mannerisms of the candidate and the sniffle might be the equivalent of Al Gore's sighs back in 2000 and the camera catches this.

You know, the stamina is something that is great. I think, overall, it's pretty clear that he was not prepared and didn't perform as well as Hillary Clinton. At the same time, I'm not convinced that anything happened, the sniffles in his performance, that are sufficient to fundamentally change what's happened in the polls, the tightening of the races. And debates usually don't' do that.

And I think his performance was actually sufficient to probably keep the dynamics as they are at this point.

COSTELLO: So, Ed, you're the guy who teaches debate. You're the expert on this, so let's just boil down the night before we go on with substance right now. Like, in your mind, was there a winner or a loser, or was it a wash when you look at it like Julian just did?

ED LEE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF DEBATE, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Well, one of the things that's important is to think about this debate from the perspective of the campaigns and what they were trying to execute, that it was very clear to me that Hillary Clinton's debate coaches told her that she had a couple of things on her agenda.

One is that she needed to look personable. She needed to figure out a way to relate, and the stories about her father and her grandfather were part of that. That she also needed to indicate that she had poise and the ability to wade through the attacks that Donald Trump would leverage and effectively discuss the policy issues without getting knocked off track. And I think that she did a fairly decent job of doing that.

I thought that Donald Trump's coaches told him two things. One is that you should not talk about crooked Hillary. You should not offer ad hominem attacks and insults against her, and he actually was successful at that. But the second thing was the temperament question. You have to answer that. And, ultimately, I thought that this debate was one in which he lost on that particular question and that he died via deaths of a thousand interruptions, that just he couldn't get beyond his need to control the debate and to control the scene.

COSTELLO: And that was certainly illustrated when Hillary Clinton talked about Donald Trump not releasing his taxes. In fact, she seemed to get Mr. Trump to admit that he paid no income tax. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: The only years that anybody's ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license, and they showed he didn't pay any Federal income tax. So if he's paid --

TRUMP: That makes me smart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, Maeve, why not say nothing? Because when he said that, my mind went to, oh, my god, you didn't pay any income tax.

RESTON: Yes. You know, I mean, that is so interesting that throughout the campaign, that Donald Trump is talking to the people that he doesn't need to be talking to in a way, you know? The people who love it that he gamed the system are already with him, you know, and to bring up that issue, which will now be what we're talking about for the next three days, and -- gave the Clinton camp a huge opportunity there. And they're going to continue to pound him on that over the next couple of days.

And that was what was so interesting about his performance over and over again. It was that, you know, he didn't pivot to the issues that would help him.

[09:15:01] He just, you know, kept coming back to taxes and it just didn't make a lot of sense.

COSTELLO: Errol, he not only did that during like the tax portion of the debate, right, but when he was asked about this racial discrimination case that took place years ago with his father and Mr. Trump was also involved, and he seemed to -- he said, yes, we settled without admitting any guilt, but he never said we didn't racially discriminate against anyone.

So, again, that issue sort of tripped him up.

LOUIS: Well, of course, in businessman terms, in business terms, it amounts to the same thing, saying that we never admitted guilt in court, so, therefore, that's off the table. Please, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, please disregard what you heard.

That's not really the way it works in politics at all, saying that you settled a lawsuit for discrimination does sound to the average person like you were entirely free of any wrongdoing. In fact, it cries out for more explanation if you're serious about refuting that charge.

He tried to dismiss it the way a business person would, and that's what got him in trouble. Same thing with his taxes -- you know, you ask about why haven't -- why have you alone among all of the major party candidates from the last 40, 50 years refused to release your taxes? And he says, well, my tax attorney told me not to.

And for him that's the end of it. For the rest of it, it's just the beginning.

COSTELLO: The other businessman kind of answer came when Hillary Clinton said he stiffed contractors in Atlantic City, and she mentions specifically, Julian, this architect, and Donald Trump's answer was, well, maybe he didn't do a good job. So, what would voters take away from that?

JULIAN ZELIZER, HISTORIAN & PROFESSOR, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Well, I think collectively at the heart of Hillary Clinton's attack was to take the argument that Donald Trump is the populist in this race and tried to undercut it. Whether it was connecting him to trickle down economics that favors wealthier Americans to highlighting the fact that he might not have paid any taxes and having him perhaps confirm that to his relationship with contractors.

There's been many stories about this where he doesn't always pay his bills. And I think the portrait she has painted and will continue to paint is that his basic populist argument is not based on much. And so, she's going to try to reiterate that and move forward with that in the coming months, thinking of swing states like Pennsylvania and preventing him from winning there.

COSTELLO: All right. Maeve, Errol, Julian and Ed, stay with me, because you're going to join me in the next block.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump says stop and frisk cuts down on crime. Is that true? We'll tell you, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:21:39] COSTELLO: Today, Donald Trump is facing heat over claims that stop and frisk police tactics help reduce crime. Last night, Mr. Trump pointed to cities like New York where those tactics have been used. Hillary Clinton quickly pushed back and slammed the strategy as ineffective. So who's right and who's wrong?

Here's CNN's Tom Foreman with a reality check.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump says if you're going to keep crime under control, police might want to bring back stop and frisk tactic, which he says worked like a charm. Hillary Clinton says not so much.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We have to bring back law and order. Now, whether or not in a place like Chicago, you do stop and frisk which world very well. Mayor Giuliani is here, worked very well in New York. It brought the crime rate way down. But you take the gun away from criminals that shouldn't be having it.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Stop and frisk was found to be unconstitutional, and in part because it was ineffective. It did not do what it needed to do.

FOREMAN: So, who's right about this?

Well, we do know from 2002 to 2011, New York really, really stepped up the number of stop and frisk stops by police officers there and crime did go down, but it did not seem to go down proportional to this kind of an increase. Just as importantly, out of about 5 million or more stops during roughly that period of time, guns were found when people were stopped less than 1 percent of the time, far less, and when stop and frisk was stopped, the crime rate continued to generally go down.

All of which generally suggests that Donald Trump's claims about this one are false and Hillary Clinton's claims are true.

You can find out a whole lot more about all of our fact checks on many different subjects. Go to our website CNN.com/realitycheck.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: All right. Our thanks to Tom Foreman for report.

So, let's bring back in our political panel, Maeve Reston, Errol Louis, Julian Zelizer and Ed Lee.

Ed, Donald Trump insists stop and frisk works. It does not. He insists that, what, Hillary Clinton started the birther movement. She did not. He insists he opposed the Iraq war from the get-go, he did not.

What is his strategy here?

ED LEE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF DEBATE, EMORY UNIVERSITY: I think Donald Trump believes that the truth is malleable, that ultimately in this age of rampant transitions in the media, that the constant Twitterization of the way in which we communicate, that news quickly transitions and that the notion of truth is something that can be created instantly.

And the reality is, is that he also is trafficking on his notion of being an entertainer and that as long as he says things and presents them in a particular way, that the public would find entertaining and interesting, then the notion of what the ultimate truth is, is less important than the facts that people are -- than the notion that people are attracted to what's being said.

COSTELLO: So, does that work, Maeve, in a general election?

RESTON: I just think it's a really puzzling strategy. I mean, he -- Donald Trump in what was it, four publications over the week end was called out, you know, for a series of factual errors and we haven't really seen anything like this in any of the recent presidential campaigns. The extent to which he is willing to bend the facts to what he wants them to being, and I think it's right that his people don't care.

But we have to remember that at this point in the race, there are more undecided voters than there were at this point in 2012, who are still not sure, making up their mind about his credentials.

[09:25:10] I just think that this kind of factual inaccuracy gets right to the root of what his problem is with those voters.

COSTELLO: Well, let's talk about the birther issue, Errol. Mr. Trump said he did the country a great service by forcing the president of the United States to produce his birth certificate. He again insisted it was Hillary Clinton that started the birther movement. It just not true but he keeps saying it.

Why?

LOUIS: Yes. It was a mistake, I think among others, that he made last night in the debate. When he started throwing out the names and trying to sort of recreate his version of reality about what the Clinton campaign of 2008 did, he's calling off the names of staff, that most of the 80-plus million people watching had no idea who he was talking about. Patti Solis Doyle said this, and another one said that. Sid Blumenthal.

(CROSSTALK)

LOUIS: Other than insiders, nobody knew what the case was he was getting at. And more importantly, you know, only in politics or only in reality TV does being asked straightforwardly why did you lie about this for five years, would it be acceptable to say, well, she lied first? I mean, that just -- it doesn't make sense.

So, this is where it gets to be a problem. And it gets to be a problem not just about confidence. You're supposed to have your facts together if you're the most powerful person in the world but of character. Why would you answer, you know, the question why did you lie by saying, she did it first? We don't accept that from our children.

COSTELLO: So, do you think, Julian, that Donald Trump will pivot from that strategy in the next debate?

ZELIZER: No, I don't think he's going to pivot. I think he's going to continue on basically what's a dual track strategy. On the one hand, Donald Trump you saw in the first half hour, 45 minutes of the debate, somewhat more restrained, who's trying to take Hillary Clinton on on the issues, but he will continue to engage in Trump politics.

And that often means appealing to his base through these kinds of issues, trying to frame the whole debate, trying to characterize Hillary Clinton through certain attacks, whether factual or whether they are fictional. I don't think he's going to give this up because it brought him this far. I don't think he believes that abandoning that style is going to work for him.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there.

Maeve Reston, Errol Louis, Julian Zelizer, Ed Lee, thanks to all of you.

Still to come on the NEWSROOM: Donald Trump slams a former Miss Universe for her weight. How did that resonate with women voters?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)