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Candidates Tackle Questions of Race, Bias; Trump Praises then Attacks Moderator Lester Holt; Trump Defending Himself for Calling Latino Ex-Miss Universe, "Miss Piggy, Miss Housekeeping". Aired 2:30- 3p ET
Aired September 27, 2016 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00] BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And one you're going hear over and over in ads is when asked about racial healing Donald Trump, quote/unquote, said, "I say nothing. I say nothing." And Donald Trump in his 70 some odd years or 70 years on this earth has not done much if anything for the African-American community. He just stated that he just started to try to build these relationships before.
But Donald Trump came in a we talk about the 60 percent of Americans who think he lacks the temperament but there's also about 60 percent of Americans who feel as if he exudes some type of racism or bigotry. He did nothing to dispel those notions last night. Whether or not it was the racist Birther lie, the xenophobia, with the young Hispanic lady who he happened to call Miss Housekeeper, and this is just Donald Trump, who he is, and he did nothing last night to shake any of that.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Bruce, your reaction?
BRUCE LEVELL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL DIVERSITY COALITION FOR TRUMP: Anderson, my reaction is if it wasn't for the Clinton crime bill we wouldn't be in this mess in terms of the biggest, largest mass incarceration of African-Americans in history.
And, Bakari, you know that. You serve on 20/20 Club for justice reform and you know that's where that came from.
The other thing, too, Anderson, I want to bring is up that the Clinton campaign is so desperate, Donald Trump is surging in the African- American vote but I just want to point this out --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Where do you see him as surging in the African-American vote?
LEVELL: Hear me out and let me finish. I'll get to that, sir. NDC Trump, National Diversity Coalition for Trump, I invite all the viewers to click on who we are. We're a coalition that was founded by Michael Cohen, who is executive vice president to Donald Trump, whose parents are Holocaust survivors, OK? When you go on the sites, we represent Muslim Americans for Trump, African-Americans for Trump, African-American Pastors for Trump, Russian-Americans for Trump, Haitian-Americans for Trump. We're plus -- a million-plus strong, Anderson. This has been on going since last year. COOPER: So where do you see him surging among African-Americans?
LEVELL: We're 8-plus percent and higher. We got 20-plus percent of the "L.A. Times." Mitt Romney had 6 percent and we're not even to November 8th. The Clinton campaign is so desperate that the only thing they can do is bring up this, Birther garbage that they brought up, Anderson.
And here's the other thing, too --
COOPER: What do you mean they brought up?
LEVELL: The Clinton campaign brought up the Birther movement, factoid. It did.
But here's the deal, what people fail to realize, when you are running for office it is not uncommon to question candidates, their viability, if they're eligible to run for office, whether you live here in the district or you live here. Case in point, John McCain being born in the Philippines, George W. Bush's service records. Donald Trump could care less if President Obama was green, purple, blue, or orange. There was some question because the Clinton campaign, the chief strategist, said, "I question President Obama's American roots." The campaign manager who said on your show said that, will, you know, that did come from us, but that was a volunteer. That Birther movement, sir, came from there. It's not a racial situation. The Clinton campaign is desperate, Anderson, because they don't have a plan.
COOPER: Bakari --
LEVELL: So this is the best thing they can do.
COOPER: So, Bakari, obviously, Patti Solis Doyle, who explained this again --
LEVELL: They're reaching, Anderson.
COOPER: -- who explained this again last night. They fired a volunteer who apparently sent out an e-mail questioning --
(CROSSTALK)
LEVELL: It came from them.
COOPER: Again, I'm just telling the facts here.
LEVELL: Right.
COOPER: So, Bakari, to Mr. LeVell's point that there's no racial component to Donald Trump's Birther issue, what do you say?
LEVELL: No way.
SELLERS: I mean, I just think that's asinine. I think Mr. LeVell knows that as well. The fact is we know what it's rooted in it but we don't to point at just the Birther issue. We don't have to -- (CROSSTALK)
LEVEL: Well, stop bringing it up.
SELLERS: We don't to just talk about the Birther issue to talk about Donald Trump's issues with race. We can talk about the fact that he was sued by the Nixon administration for racial discrimination. We can talk about Central 5.
LEVELL: Oh, my god, 1985.
SELLERS: We can talk about --
(CROSSTALK)
LEVELL: No precedents, no wrongful doing.
SELLERS: I'm just going to finish my statement, Bruce. I'm going to finish my statement.
Not only that, but you go to the fact that last night Donald Trump wanted to simply say THT what he's done for African-American is allow them into Mar-a-Lago, which by no means makes you a civil rights patriot. My challenge to Bruce and others who support Trump is, yes, we have a problem with mass incarceration and we need criminal justice reform in this country -- Hillary Clinton has a plan. Donald Trump has Stop-and-Frisk. And if Bruce can sit here and support "Stop-and- Frisk," he'll be then only black man I've ever met on my life who would go on national TV.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Is Stop-and-Frisk what inner cities in Chicago need?
LEVELL: The subject matter was thousands of, especially black children, being killed in Chicago. They've done absolutely nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: But the question is, do you believe in Stop-and-Frisk.
LEVELL: Sir, I'm will to do whatever it takes to save our children.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: So do you believe it's constitutional? Do you believe it works?
LEVELL: We can debate anything. But at the end of the day, we have to do something. And --
COOPER: So you support Stop-and-Frisk?
LEVELL: Yeah. Save our black children in Chicago and other inner cities. Mayor Giuliani proved that. We went from 2,500 down to 500. It got debated back and forth. But it's a proactive solution. We have to do something instead of just bringing -- pulling the race card.
COOPER: Right.
You do admit, though, the murder rate in New York has continued to drop after Stop-and-Frisk itself was stopped? They've been focusing more on other ways to get guns off the streets --
[14:35:15] SELLERS: Community policing.
COOPER: -- here in New York, in a more effective way. That Stop-and- Frisk didn't actually get many guns off the streets.
LEVELL: Well, with all due respect, in other cities as well as Chicago, which came up quite extensively, it has been ongoing for months and months. our children are being killed and murdered. We have got to do something.
And let me ask this -- let me say this, Anderson, in relation to race relations. You can't have relations without peace and law and order. I'm going to tell you this for a fact, and I've sat in many rooms with pastors, and I've been privileged to hear the dialogue that goes on. Donald Trump has so much backing from Sikhs, from African-American pastors, from the faith-based community, because he understands one thing, in order to get beyond the government, it has to be a relationship with different races coming together. You can't do that when there's total chaos in a community. So you have to restore respectfully law and order in order to give all the cultures a chance to come together or it's just chaos.
COOPER: Bakari, when you hear the term "law and order" that Donald Trump mentions and talked about last night, do you hear it in the same way that Mr. LeVell does?
SELLERS: Well, no, and I think that hear it the way that most African-American hear it. He quoted the "L.A. Times" poll, which we don't quote at CNN and not many people viewed to be credible as a tracking poll.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVELL: A blue city, I might say, a blue city.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Some polls have different methodology.
Go ahead.
SELLERS: Yes, and I think the last credible poll that came out Donald Trump went down. He was at 3 percent with African-American support.
But that's neither here nor there. But when you say law and order, and we understand the complexities of criminal justice reform -- you have to have a plan and Donald Trump has not echoed a plan. Stop-and- Frisk harms African-American communities. We know that it targeted African-Americans and Hispanics. We know it didn't work, didn't lead to arrests. And it was deemed unconstitutional. So now that we have that in one bucket, what else are you going to do? Are you going to talk about community policing? Are you going to talk about the uniform use of force throughout the country? Are you going to talk about block grants for body cameras and other resources? Are we going to talk about implicit biases? Systemic racism?
The funny part about Bruce LeVell and his National Diversity Counsel supporting Donald Trump, although he has all these support from all these individuals, last night, Donald Trump got on stage and doesn't know what systemic racism means. That's the largest tragedy.
LEVELL: Bakari --
SELLERS: We have a candidate on stage who doesn't understand the concept.
LEVELL: There isn't any racism because of you --
(CROSSTALK)
LEVELL: He can not cure the ills.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Mr. LeVell, comment, and then we have to go.
LEVELL: Anderson, coming from I guess some categorize as deplorable and a super predator, I guess that's what we are -- Bakari, that came out of your candidate's mouth. At the end of the day, the Clinton campaign is so desperate. Donald Trump has touched the nerve of the African-American community and all communities to bring this dialogue to the forefront, better than anyone has ever had. These particular municipalities and cities have been under Democratic rule, have done absolutely nothing, except promise to vote for us, we'll be back, see you in four years, and nothing gets done.
COOPER: Bruce LeVell, thank you.
Bakari Sellers, thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Coming up, Donald Trump first praised the moderator before attacking him. My next guest famously moderated a Bill Clinton debate. Phil Donahue joins me live, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:42:56] COOPER: Donald Trump has had criticism about Lester Holt, last night's moderator. He's flip-flopping on the moderator, blasting him as biased and unfair, which is different from what we heard from Donald Trump moments after he left the stage.
Here he was on CNN praising Holt in the spin room.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. Trump, how do you feel about how Lester Holt did?
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I thought Lester did a great job. Honestly I thought he did a great job.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The questions were fair?
TRUMP: I thought it was good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Now, 12 hours later, he took to FOX News with a criticism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP (voice-over): He didn't ask her about the e-mails at all. He didn't ask her about her scandals. He didn't ask her about the Benghazi deal that she destroyed. He didn't ask her about a lot of things she should have been asked about. There's no question about it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why do you think that is?
TRUMP: He didn't ask about her foundation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining me now is legendary talk show host, Phil Donahue.
Phil, you watched the debate. What do you make of Trump's criticisms? Do you believe Lester Holt was harder on him than Secretary Clinton?
PHIL DONOHUE, FORMER HOST, DONAHUE: Not at all. I think Lester Holt stayed small which is what moderators should do and I can't understand what -- how he could be unfair when he didn't say that much which I believe was a good thing.
COOPER: You famously in '92 you were moderating a debate between Bill Clinton and Jerry Brown, you opened it up and I don't remember your exact words but you were like "OK, gentlemen, talk." And you stepped back and I don't think you said anything for the next 45 minutes or something. Am I right? Am I remembering this correctly?
DONAHUE: That is correct. I -- it was my idea to do a presidential debate with no moderator. And my theory was what will they talk about? What issues will they bring up? What issues won't they bring up? How much will they talk? Will they talk too much? And we'll really get to see these people without a moderator trying to steer the "Titanic." I have to say, it was not a success.
[14:45:13] COOPER: It was not a success?
DONAHUE: One problem --
Well, one problem was they were both from the Democratic Party and it became a valentine for the wonderful Democratic Party. So it didn't work. But I do believe it would work this year imagine if -- you think making my point is Trump, last night, interrupted way too much and he's being criticized for that today. He was not a gentleman. And I'm also --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: It's interesting --
DONAHUE: Yeah, go ahead.
COOPER: -- because Lester Holt has been -- some have criticized him for not being enough of a traffic cop, for not stopping Donald Trump from interrupting. I think there is a value in stepping back. You don't want it to be about you. You want it to be a discussion about the two, and if one is interrupting the other, that tells the audience something and people can make up their own minds about what exactly that means. I'm not sure it's always good for the moderator to be stepping in and trying to direct and keep everything to time.
DONAHUE: Well, you speak for me. This is my point. Media is kind of full of itself anyway, and I say just turn the tally lights off so they can't see who's on camera. The split screen is probably not a good idea. Seeing two people that close. We don't do that. There's a certain, I think, inbred resistance to getting too close to a person, unless it's a spouse or family member. And the split screen makes it look like he's on t| of her and the height differentiation issue made it look even more like he was a bully.
COOPER: Interesting.
Phil Donahue, appreciate your being on. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
DONAHUE: Thank you.
COOPER: Coming up next, Donald Trump today defending his attacks against a former Miss Universe. She says he called her Miss Piggy and other things because she gains weight after winning, and he also called her Miss Housekeeping because she's Latina. We'll discuss that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:51:22] COOPER: Hillary Clinton saved her sharpest jabs for Trump at the end of the debate. In the final minutes, Clinton criticized Trump for some of the things he said about women. She brought up Miss Universe, 1996, Alicia Machado, who admits she gained a few pounds after winning the crown. Trump went so far as to invite the media to watch her work out to drop the weight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: He loves beauty contests, supporting them and hanging around them. And he called this woman Miss Piggy. Then he called her Miss Housekeeping because she was Latina. Donald, she has a name.
TRUMP: Where did you find this?
CLINTON: Her name is Alicia Machado.
TRUMP: Where did you find this?
CLINTON: And she has become a U.S. citizen. And you can bet --
TRUMP: Oh, really?
CLINTON: -- she's going to vote this November.
TRUMP: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The Clinton campaign also rolling out a new video featuring Machado. In it, she recounts her experience and recalled Trump's own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALICIA MACHADO, FORMER MISS UNIVERSE: "Hello, Miss Piggy." "Hello, Miss Housekeeping."
TRUMP: She weighed 118 pounds or 117 pounds and she went up to 160 or 170, so this is somebody that likes to eat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Talk about this with the panel. Kristen Soltis Anderson is a Republican strategist and pollster and columnist for the "Washington Examiner." Also with me is CNN political analyst, Jackie Kucinich, also the Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast."
Kristen, let me start with you.
Donald Trump is talking about this still this morning when he was asked but I want to play the video of what he said this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP (voice-over): She was the worst we ever had. The worst. The absolute worst. She was impossible. And she was a Miss Universe contestant and ultimately a winner, who they had a tremendously difficult time with. She gained a massive amount of a weight. It was real problem. We had a real problem. Not only that, but her attitude. We had a real problem with her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Kristen, how do you think this plays for Donald Trump and that he still is basically defending himself talking about her weight? KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST & POLLSTER & COLUMNIST,
WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Normally, we'd say, "I can't believe we've found a new low to reach." What's bizarre is in this election for voters the fact that Trump is a jerk is baked in so the question is, is this new? Does this somehow -- not only this old clip from the past which had he come out and say, "I apologized back in the '90s, there were different standards for these things, I wouldn't say that now"? Maybe he could have gotten past this but to double down the morning after the debate is unbelievable, and if you had any voters who would tell toll sisters like me.
Look, I'm supporting Trump but I'm waiting for him to make the presidential pivot. He has the last 24 hours done anything but destroy the idea that there is some presidential pivot waiting around the corner? The answer is terrible and with female voters, which has been a tough spot for Trump all along him.
COOPER: Jackie, clearly a more experienced candidate would want to try to pivot to some other issue but for him to double down is surprising.
JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: This goes to character, very basic character. He can't let go if someone challenges him. He feels like he needs to hit back. He said that during the primary debates. Him, he hits back, even if they were a subordinate, decades ago, and someone he fat-shamed. And this isn't the first time. There were stories of his employees at his company, her name is escaping me but he said, "She likes her candy."
Kristen is right. This is baked in with Donald Trump but that doesn't make it OK. And the fact he won't let this go defies logic.
COOPER: I was interesting because at the end of the debate he said in the spin room he was going to bring up tough stop but he didn't want to out of respect for Chelsea Clinton, who was in the audience. So -- obviously, a reference to Bill Clinton's marital issues. I wonder if you think the message Donald Trump has taken away from this debate is that he needs to bring that up, that needs to, in his opinion, be tougher against Clinton on personal issues.
[14:55:35] SOLTIS ANDERSON: It will be interesting to see how the polls shape things over the next few days. My assumption is that Trump's advisors if he begins to go down in the polls are going to try to get him back on the rails, try to get him acting more like he did in, say, the first 15 minutes of the debate last night when he was a little more on message, yes. Aggressive, yes, on the verge of being a bully but with fire and passion you can see voters resonating with. Toward the end of the debate it went off the rails. Imagine his advisors upon hearing that interview with "FOX and Friends" can't have been happy that when he's going to this place on this offensive issue, there's no political hook to it, there's no constituency for it, no point to it. I have to imagine the folks in Trump Tower trying to nudge him cannot have been happy this is the direction he seems to want to go.
COOPER: We have to leave it there. Kristen Soltis Anderson, thanks for being with us.
Jackie Kucinich, as well.
A program note, I'll have an interview with Alicia Machado on "A.C. 360" tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern.
Debate number two, just 12 days away. I'll speak live with the Bush and Obama campaigns about how Trump and Clinton may be changing their strategy. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:59:58] COOPER: It's the top of the hour. I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for joining us.
Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are back on the campaign trail today reacting to their fiery faceoff. The first debate drew a record audience. Nearly 81 million viewers, becoming the most-watched debate in the 60 years in television history.
