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Analysis of Monday Night's Historic Presidential Debate Between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Aired 3:30-4a ET

Aired September 27, 2016 - 03:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[03:36:00]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN NEWSROOM SHOW HOST: Hello and a very warm welcome to our viewers all over the world. I'm Rosemary Church here at CNN world headquarters.

We want to bring you analysis of Monday night's historic presidential debate between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. They clashed on a number of issues, including trade, taxes, national security and race relations in America.

For the next 30 minutes, you will see what our panel of experts made of the showdown. Let's join Wolf Blitzer from earlier on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, THE SITUATION ROOM SHOW HOST: Were minds changed as a result of this debate?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It depends who we're talking about. If you're a Trump supporter, you liked him making the case about jobs, making the case about trade deals. Blaming Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama for things that gotten wrong in the economy.

If you're a Clinton supporter, I don't think she lost any support to Donald Trump. And so, what are we talking about? She has to win some people back from the Libertarian candidate and the Green Party candidate, especially millennials, and there's a swath of people that are undecided.

I think on the 'birther' issue, on denying climate change and having a little contest about, on the women's issues, to Jake's point, he took the bait on some of the issues, the Clinton campaign believes will help them with independent and soft moderate republicans who he hope to pick up in the suburbs as the debate were on.

At the beginning of the debate, I agree with Jake completely. The Trump campaign he wanted to make the case, she can't solve these problems. We need change. We don't need a corrupt politician. We need somebody new.

But, as it went on and she was using his own words against him, learning the lessons of all that videotape she watched. Preparation does matter in these things. She watched all the video of the republican primary debates, and when you quote his own words back and when you question his vicious acumens it gets under her skin.

To trump's credit, he was not as scornful. He was not as animated in his insults and his mocking of her criticism of her but he did take debate on those attacks.

JAKE TAPPER, STATE OF THE UNION SHOW HOST: He was strong at the beginning when he was talking about trade deals. He seemed like somebody who really cared about the issue, he named states with a trade deals had really hurt -- hurt the neighborhoods, hurt the manufacturing base, Ohio, Pennsylvania, et cetera. And she did seem like somebody who was defending the status quo.

That was the first 20 minutes to half an hour. The rest of it, she showed much more of a mastery of issues, she showed a much more nuance take on things.

And he -- it really was unbelievable, John and I were sitting here talking about it, she would say something, just to dangle out like a piece of meat in front of a rabid wolf, and he would go for it every single time. Completely off message.

He listed every single time he -- even times he didn't argue against going to war in Iraq, he did a Neil Cavuto interview. Then he did this, then he did that. Then there was an article in 2000, why are you doing this?

KING: But this has been a trademark issue on the campaign on the issues he can't answer. There's no record of him opposing the Iraq war before the invasion. He continued to stand up there tonight and tell Lester Holt he was not lying. Lester Holt was not lying. There was no record of Donald Trump...

TAPPER: And then, but he provided no contrary facts, none, not one.

KING: Right. But he had time throughout this campaign. And tonight, he's had a casual relationship with the truth. And I think when we get into the printed fact checks and the research fact checks and the one reality check being, which I know was busy at work right now, in terms of the statements that were clearly whoppers, he will have -- there will be more on his list than hers without a doubt.

BLITZER: Yes. There were some substantive discussions on important issues but she clearly managed to get under his skin, and he reacted as Donald Trump would react.

TAPPER: He could have talked more about the e-mail scandal.

KING: Right.

TAPPER: Then about his own taxes. He did for a little bit, he did like a paragraph on the e-mail scandal. But he then kept on talking about his taxes.

KING: Yes.

TAPPER: And even at one point seemed, she said something like maybe you didn't pay any taxes.

KING: That's smart:

TAPPER: When they were -- and he said, that's smart.

KING: That's smart.

TAPPER: And then he said something about the $20 trillion national debt. And she made some crack about, oh, well that's because, you know, you don't pay your taxes. And he said something well, if I did, it would be squandered. He almost seemed to concede her point.

KING: Yes, sure.

BLITZER: She clearly had come in very well prepared for this debate.

Anderson, over to you.

ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 SHOW HOST: A fascinating debate, I want to get a quick response from everybody on our panel. Just initial perceptions, Gloria.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I think -- I agree with Jake, that at the beginning of the debate, when Donald Trump is on trade, he was on terra firma, then I think he totally lost control of the debate, and I think Hillary Clinton controlled the debate on taxes, on the question of 'birther,' on the Iraq war.

[03:40:07] And at the very end, this question of stamina when these charges of misogyny were raised against him, he started just attacking Rosie O'Donnell, which was the first time she's ever been mentioned in a presidential debate.

COOPER: I mean, many of the themes that he talked about were things he has brought up in pretty much every debate he's ever been in...

BORGER: Yes.

COOPER: ... or if you've seen his stump speech.

(CROSSTALK)

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, the -- we heard a lot of people from the Trump camp, even some of our friends say, well, let Trump be Trump. Well, Trump was Trump and it wasn't good for him tonight.

What he needed to do tonight was to show something more, was to not chase the rabbits down the hole, but add something to people's understanding of his ability to do this job.

I think there's a terrible night for him. She came in, it turns out that prep matters, experience matters and it showed tonight.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. And it literally showed, right? I mean, the split screen image of her, standing there pretty firmly, and him sniffling a lot. He was drinking a lot of water, his facial expressions. It was clear.

I thought early on that he was rattled, and it showed. And there were times when she was just happy to let him go deep four or five layers deep into birtherism, go four or five layers deep into his taxes and just sit there and let it flow, because he was just digging a hole. I mean, in this debate.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: There were times I wondered if she was making the calculation, do I jump in or do I just let this go? And it seems like she just let it go.

(CROSSTALK)

HENDERSON: Yes. She was letting it go.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, THE SMERCONISH SHOW HOST: He wore on his sleeve before the debate, his lack of preparation, and it caught up with him tonight. And I think that to David's point, there were some easily managed answers that he blew as a result.

One that stands out in my mind is he was asked about the 1973 charges of discrimination in housing, and his reply was to say, I voluntarily settled that suit. Well, the first thing he should have said is, we never discriminated against anyone.

BORGER: Right.

SMERCONISH: And I voluntarily settled that case.

COOPER: And in fact, what he also said was, plenty of other people were sued as well.

SMERCONSIH: Yes.

COOPER: There were a lot of real estate companies that were part of the lawsuit.

(CROSSTALK)

SMERCONISH: And Anderson, one other if I might. When you get asked a question, I'm all for law enforcement, but law enforcement is not the answer to a question, how are you going to improve race relations. The first thing you say is not stop and risk, and law enforcement, you talk about the need to build bridges.

BORGER: Right.

HENDERSON: And it's also not -- yes.

(CROSSTALK)

AXELROD: There were two devastating moments, though, and I think they have to be noted. One was the 'birther' discussion... BORGER: Right.

AXELROD: ... which was an absolute disaster, ending with him after side discussions about Patti Solis Doyle and Sidney Blumenthal...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: And we are going to her in just a moment.

AXELROD: ... he ends up excoriating Hillary Clinton for not being kind enough to Barack Obama, who's her chief supporter and her Secretary of State.

BORGER: Right.

COOPER: But let's play -- let's part of this exchange on 'birtherism' because we do have Patti Solis Doyle here, who Donald Trump himself mentioned in a CNN interview. Let's play the exchange.

BLITZER: And just that...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Simple to say. Sidney Blumenthal works for the campaign and close -- very close friend of Secretary Clinton. And her campaign manager, Patti Doyle went to -- during the campaign, her campaign against President Obama fought very hard, and you can go look it up, and you can check it out.

And if you look at CNN, this past week, Patti Solis Doyle, was on Wolf Blitzer saying that this happened, Blumenthal sent McClatchy, a highly respected reporter at McClatchy, to Kenya to find out about it, they were pressing it very hard. She failed to get the birth certificate. When I got involved, I didn't fail. I got him to give the birth certificate.

CLINTON: Just listen to what you heard. And clearly, as Donald just admitted he knew he was going to stand on this debate stage, and Lester Holt was going to be asking us questions, so he tried to put the whole racist 'birther' lie to bed.

But it can't be dismissed that easily. He has really started his political activity based on this racist lie that our first black president was not an American citizen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: I feel like Woody Allen and Annie Hall was in the line said, well, I happen to have Marcia Lynn McClure right here. I happen to have Patti Solis Doyle right here.

PATTI SOLIS DOYLE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

COOPER: Is that what you said on CNN?

DOYLE: No, it is absurd, it is absurd what Donald Trump just said. I never sent anyone to Kenya to look for his birth certificate.

COOPER: What you had said, because I just looked at the transcript. It was that there was a staffer, you weren't sure if she was paid or not, perhaps a volunteer.

[03:45:00] DOYLE: Here's what happened.

COOPER: OK.

DOYLE: There was a volunteer in Iowa, in late '07 who forwarded an e- mail...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Volunteer on the Clinton campaign?

DOYLE: On the Clinton campaign. Who forwarded an e-mail about Obama's heritage saying that he was a Muslim. We found out about it, I fired him. I called David Plouffe, not you David, but David Plouffe and apologized, because that's not...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: David Plouffe from the Obama campaign?

DOYLE: Correct, his campaign -- Obama's campaign manager. Because we didn't want to run that kind of campaign. That's called shutting it down ladies and gentlemen. That's not called trafficking in or promoting it, or perpetuating it. That's called shutting it down. And that's what we did.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: There was an allegation that someone from McClatchy that Sidney Blumenthal had kind of promoted this story to someone from McClatchy. And McClatchy sent something.

DOYLE: Sidney, as my understanding denied that, and Sidney never worked for our campaign, so.

COOPER: Van, what did you think tonight and then we'll go to Trump supporters.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, let's not get too excited. We have said on many, many nights and said, Donald Trump has destroyed himself, Donald Trump is done, and like Jason he comes back again.

So, but I will say this, the momentum was all in Donald Trump's direction. And I think Hillary Clinton inarguably stopped the momentum tonight. And I think that she -- you said earlier, Nia, you nailed it, that there needs to be some -- you go get to...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: I got to jump in, Dana Bash - Dana -- let's go to Dana Bash (Inaudible).

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I'm very happy.

BASH: And my question for you is, first of all, it sounds like you admitted that you hadn't paid federal taxes and that that was smart. Is that what you meant to say?

TRUMP: No, I didn't say that at all. I mean, if they I didn't, I mean, it doesn't matter. I will say this, I hate the way our government spends our taxes. Because they are wasting our money. They don't know what they're doing, they're running it so poorly, whether it's spent in Iraq or wherever they're spending it, they are wasting our money. So, I do hate the way our government spends over it.

BASH: Patti Solis Doyle just said on CNN that she didn't actually say what you said that she said. Then she didn't fire...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: No, why don't you go to Wolf Blitzer because I got to see that on Wolf Blitzer.

BASH: But in terms of she was explaining what happened because she was there.

TRUMP: And I don't...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: And she said that she fired a volunteer for was in trafficking in saying that he was a Muslim, not about 'birtherism.'

TRUMP: So, why don't you do this, why don't you see the reporter from McClatchy? Why don't you speak to Sidney Blumenthal because she's never going to tell you the truth? But why don't you also just take a quick look at what she actually said to Wolf Blitzer.

BASH: Did you take the bait -- did you take Hillary Clinton's bait?

TRUMP: I was very proud of the fact that I was able to get him to put up his birth certificate and Hillary Clinton failed. Because she can't bring it home, I mean, she just can't bring it home, and she'll fail with jobs and she'll fail all the way along the line. And I think we proved that tonight. She failed with getting him to do it. I got him to do it, so I'm very proud of that.

BASH: What changed, sir?

TRUMP: Say it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you accept the outcome of the election?

TRUMP: Oh, yes, absolutely.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Trump...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. That's a live look at Donald Trump, Wolf.

COOPER: I happen to have the tape of Marcia Lynn McClure here. So, let's play what Patti Solis Doyle originally said on Wolf Blitzer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He just tweeted a couple of tweets, let me put them up on the screen. "Hillary Clinton or her '08 campaign did not start 'birther' movement. Period. I was there." And then another tweet, "I fired the rogue and I called David Plouffe to apologize for said rouge."

And so, what does that mean? You fire the rouge someone in the campaign, someone who was supporting Hillary Clinton was trying to promote this so-called 'birther' issue? What happened?

DOYLE: Well, so, we absolutely -- the campaign nor Hillary did not start the 'birther' movement. Period, end of the story there. There was a volunteer coordinator, I believe in late 2007, I think in December. One of our volunteer coordinators in one of the counties in Iowa -- I don't recall whether they were an actual paid staffer, but they did forward an e-mail that promoted the conspiracy.

BLITZER: The 'birther' conspiracy?

DOYLE: Hillary -- yes, Hillary made the decision immediately to let that person go. We let that person go. And it was so -- you know, beyond the pale, Wolf. And, you know, so not worthy of the kind of campaign that certainly Hillary wanted to run or that we, as the staff wanted to run, that I called David Plouffe who was obviously managing Barack Obama's campaign in '07 to apologize, and basically say that this is -- was not coming from us.

It was a rogue volunteer coordinator, and this was not the kind of campaign we wanted to run. And David, very graciously accepted my apology.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So that's the -- what Donald Trump was originally referring to. Anything more on this, because again, he again brought up Sidney Blumenthal, your response to that is?

DOYLE: Sidney never worked for us. And Sidney...

(CROSSTALK)

[03:50:02] COOPER: But he is very close to -- he is very close to Secretary Clinton and was part of the foundation.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He is hired by the foundation.

DOYLE: But he never worked for our campaign.

MCENANY: But his larger point is this, the idea of President Obama, somehow being and -- other originated with Hillary Clinton in her campaign.

DOYLE: No, it did not.

MCENANY: In fact, it was called the sleaziest moment of the campaign by a New York Times columnist, when Hillary Clinton went on air and said Barack Obama is not a Muslim as far as I know. When Hillary Clinton's campaign circulated a picture of Barack Obama in native headdress, it was called by Barack Obama dirty trick. So, this idea that it started with the campaign is truly...

(CROSSTALK)

SMERCONISH: Kayleigh...

COOPER: One at a time. One at a time. Let her finish.

MCENANY: And I agree -- I agree with Donald Trump when he said, let's move on and talk about ISIS and jobs, because it does a disservice to the American people and he want to move on this.

DOYLE: Donald Trump doesn't want to move on. He continues to talk about it.

COOPER: OK. David...

AXELROD: Again, I would say I've got to bear personal witness to this, we, I was there, this was a -- this was a big effort that was launched by the Clinton campaign, but I also was there in the White House when Donald Trump pressed this issue for years after, even after the president released his birth certificate.

But the bigger issue is, do you think it's profitable in a presidential debate for him to be getting into the weeds about Patti Solis Doyle and Sidney Blumenthal and Rosie O'Donnell?

BORGER: Right.

AXELROD: Because I don't.

COOPER: Let Kayleigh respond.

MCENANY: I think he wants to move on from these issues. He said at the end, let's talk about ISIS, let's talk about jobs. But let's back up here. What we saw tonight was a real person acting viscerally about things that happened.

And what you saw on the other side was a scripted politician who instead of being out on the campaign trail for two weeks shaking hands and talking to voters, was calculating her every single word we saw tonight. And I think Donald Trump... (CROSSTALK)

AXELROD: There are 300 -- but there are 320 million real people in America, but one of these will be president of the United States.

(CROSSTALK)

MCENANY: Who would all do better than our all talk no action, sounds goods doesn't work...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: But let me just ask you a question, though, do you not -- and I don't know the answer to this, as president, don't you want somebody who thinks very, very, very carefully about the words they say, because as president, doesn't the words you say have global impact? Potentially, you know, policy changing impact around the world?

MCENANY: Sure, of course I want someone who thinks carefully, and I think Donald Trump does, but I think he reacts the way average people react. That being said, he's created a $10 billion...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: You want an average person in the White House?

MCENANY: He created -- he's not an average person. He created a $10 billion brand. And he didn't do by flying off the handle. He did that by negotiating very sensitive deals with world leaders. But he's a real person who understands blue collar workers and the middle class far more than Hillary Clinton.

COOPER: OK. Jeffrey, we haven't heard from you.

JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: All right. In terms of the Clinton campaign spreading rumors that Barack Obama was the other, I want to read the first line from a news story from the International Business Times. It says, "A former personal aide to United States President Barack Obama said Monday that false rumors he was a Muslim were, quote, "moved along," unquote, by Hillary Clinton's staffers in 2008. And they're talking about...

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: OK. Now, here's the deal, what if I grant you that, what if I say you...

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: You don't have to grant me, grant Reggie Love.

JONES: I will grant you -- so what, are you saying that Donald Trump is so feeble minded that he has to follow the leadership of some nobody Clinton staffer that -- it's been five years?

LORD: Senator Obama accused -- accused Hillary Clinton... (CROSSTALK)

JONES: In other words...

LORD: No, no, no.

COOPER: Guys, nobody listens.

LORD: He was his body man.

AXELROD: He was his body man, he was the guy who carried his bags and stuff.

LORD: Yes.

COOPER: OK. He was the campaign manager. Let him speak.

AXELROD: Let's not get carried away here. The fact of the matter is, that Donald Trump carried this, he was the chief proponent of this argument for years until last week. And that's undeniable. I don't even think -- I agree with you, guys, let's move on, but I don't think he did himself a service tonight. And that's the point.

COOPER: Overall -- no.

TRUMP: I just think it was very exciting overall. Dana, I thought the outset was great. You know, you walk on, you don't know exactly what to expect. Base on all of the online polls, we did tremendously well.

BASH: Given at a real poll yet.

TRUMP: Well, I mean, but the online polls were fantastic. I mean, you get it. One hundreds of thousands of people are calling in and voting and you have 80, 90 percent. You start to gather.

BASH: Anything that you wish you did differently?

TRUMP: No. I'm very happy that I was able to hold back on the discretion -- you know, on the indiscretions with respect to Bill Clinton. Because I have a lot of respect for Chelsea Clinton and I just didn't want to say what I was going to say.

BASH: Which is?

TRUMP: Which is I'll tell you maybe at the next debate. We'll see. But I'm very -- I'm very happy with the...

BASH: What about -- what about -- what about -- her big moment that she clearly thought that she had in saying she was preparing for the debate just like she is preparing to be president.

[03:54:57] TRUMP: Well, I think she'd be for president. I don't think she do the job. We need somebody that's going to really be able to do the job. She doesn't have what it takes to make America great again.

But we'll see how it all because you see the polls you see what's going on, you see how we're doing. We are going to make America great again. Our country is in such trouble, whether it is immigration, whether it's our jobs being taken, whether it's our factories closing up all over the country, whether it's our military that's been so sadly deflated.

BASH: Did it go how you thought it was going to go?

TRUMP: I think it went better than I ever thought. Yes. No, I loved it. I loved it.

COOPER: OK. So, we got a lot of people saying they think Trump did terribly that's why I just want to hear from you. What is your perspective?

LORD: Right out of the gate he was after her on trade. To the point he hit her so hard that she, you know, started to flip flop on all this sort of thing.

I was looking now -- let me just add here the Trump campaign put out a list of these tweets. But still and all they are tweets from significant people in the Washington Post, the New York Times, et cetera, saying that they thought he was doing a terrific job here.

My point to is number one, whatever we think about the birtherism thing, I generally do not believe people in America who are looking forward and are concerned about their health care, their jobs, taxes, et cetera, give a whip about the 'birther' issue. I thought...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: OK. But overall how do you think Donald Trump did versus Hillary.

LORD: I thought he was great. And he particularly pursued the business of being the outsider, the rebellion against the standard politician.

COOPER: OK. Gloria?

BORGER: Can I -- on the 'birther' issue just one thing, is that it's the predicate upon which his political career was based for five years. He rode that issue to national celebrity after "The Apprentice" and it was part of the issue that -- it was the issue that catapulted him.

Secondly on the tax issue, I think the problem he had is that when Hillary Clinton started to talking about it as a bait and switch, not releasing her taxes, et cetera. And she made it very personal. She said that means zero for troops, zero for vets, zero for schools, zero for health care and then he said, that makes me smart during the campaign.

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: Yes. That's an odd. BORGER: That he didn't -- that he didn't pay his taxes. And then she said, well, what are you trying to hide? And I think that that answer resonates with people who say, wait a minute, what am I, a chump. I'm paying all this money for school, vets, et cetera and when you are president it's different.

COOPER: Van, Van.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN NEWSROOM SHOW HOST: Gloria Borger rounding off our coverage this hour. Thanks for being with us for this special broadcast. I'm Rosemary Church. And you can watch the first U.S. presidential debate again in full about two hours from now. That's 6 p.m. in Hong Kong and 11 a.m. in London.

We'll join Early Start in just a moment with much more debate and analysis, just six weeks before Americans go to the polls. Stay with CNN.

[04:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Welcome back. You're watching CNN, Early Start is in progress. Let's join the team in New York.