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Train Crash in New Jersey Causes Multiple Injuries; NTSB Monitoring Situation; Interview with Train Passenger. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired September 29, 2016 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00] MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Train was going, it could have pushed those barriers. The barriers themselves might not have been very strong and might have failed. But literally at the end of the track, if you have a heavy train and enough speed, you can push through those barriers and you can cause damage. There have actually been movie plots like this where I think one was a Gene Wilder movie where the train was coming into the station and did not stop and plowed into the station. So it's rare because there are these arrester barriers at the end of the tracks, but depending on the speed and the weight of the train, it could go through them.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, I have Brynn Gingras joining me now.

I'm sure you've ridden that train many, many times.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

COSTELLO: So what have you been able to find out so far this morning?

GINGRAS: Well, right now we're just really trying to figure out exactly what you asked, is how many injuries this might have caused. You can see from those pictures, it's pretty scary looking at this point. But we don't have that confirmation as of yet. Right now we're just learning about all of the rail service in and out of that train station, how that's all being stopped, suspended until they can quite figure out what -- what exactly happened.

COSTELLO: And, of course, it's at -- it's at the height of rush hour. It's a busy morning, right?

GINGRAS: This -- this is rush hour this morning, on Thursday morning, right.

COSTELLO: There's a lot of people on board that train.

GINGRAS: Right. And that's a -- a train station where -- there's the PATH service there, which is a difference way that commuters can get into the city and there's also New Jersey Transit, which this was a New Jersey Transit train, not a PATH train. So that is going to impact both of those types of commuters. So it's certainly going to be snarled for a lot of people this morning, but that's -- COSTELLO: Yes, we heard from -- we heard from Paul out at the scene that there are buses now, long lines of people waiting to get on buses. Also, the New York Waterway Ferry is picking up people to try to get them into the city to work.

GINGRAS: Certainly. It's a trickle-down effect when any sort of suspension or anything should happen. But this is, obviously, a major crash here that we're seeing these pictures. So it's certainly a trickledown effect.

COSTELLO: So our CNN producer, Paul Murphy, told us that this station is a historic station. It was damaged by Hurricane Sandy.

GINGRAS: Right.

COSTELLO: They were desperately trying to save it. And they did. And now this.

GINGRAS: Right. And it was closed for quite a while. I mean I used to work in local here in New York and it -- there was a long time that they had to repair this station after Sandy. It was completely flooded. So certainly it's a newer, sort of remodeled station. But, again, it's -- how many people go through that station? It's not just, you know, some people from, you know, Hoboken. I mean this is a -- this is a hub where people who are in Hoboken, but also who are in the outskirts of New Jersey, are traveling through this hub to get into the city.

COSTELLO: Yes. And talk about the trains because some people in New York say, you know what, I never ride New Jersey trains because, you know, they're kind of rickety and I don't know.

GINGRAS: Right.

COSTELLO: But -- but tell me from your experience what you've seen.

GINGRAS: I mean there's always been long complaints about New Jersey Transit trains and, you know, them being on time. As far as service and how they are actually riding them, I mean they're quite fine. I mean they, of course, run all day, every day, to get commuters in and out of the city. But certainly this is scary. I mean these pictures alone are very scary images showing us here in Hoboken. And, again, Hoboken is a city just outside of New York, right across the river, the Hudson River. So this is especially, as you said, the time of day where there would be a lot of people on that train, a lot of people at that station. So certainly as we find out more information --

COSTELLO: So -- so this question to you, Mary Schiavo. So police are responding. The fire department's responding. They have ambulances on the scene. How do -- how do these emergency workers handle such a thing?

SCHIAVO: Well, they handle such a thing, they have the priorities, of course. First is to get the human lives saved, get them out of there, get people off to the hospitals. Already at this point the NTSB is en route because they will be investigating. And, of course, everything's cordoned off because it's also a potential -- well, certainly an accident scene. It could be a crime scene. They always have to look at that possibility as well.

But the most important thing for the workers at this point is the human lives. They're in there trying to get people out, trying to get the injured to the hospital and handling the human beings, of course, first. Then will come the investigation and that's why it will be very carefully cordoned off because that's the NTSB's top order is everything gets cordoned off and nothing gets carted away. And they will be the ones that will be allowed to interview the train engineers and the train personnel first. It will be the NTSB. And so that will be the order, humans first, train investigation second.

COSTELLO: All right, Brynn just is getting some new information in. What can you tell us?

GINGRAS: Yes, we're hearing right now emergency responders are reporting multiple injuries at this point with this particular accident. And they're requesting multiple ambulances and paramedics to arrive at the scene. This is all according to a source from Deb Feyerick.

And we're hearing that the urban search and rescue team has been deployed and will assist in shoring up the structure and also help people remove -- remove people off the train. So it does sound like not only are there injuries possibly on the train, but also in that particular station as the train, it sounds like, it just went right through the station. That that is what the source told Deb Feyerick. So the extent of injuries apparently are unknown at this point, but, again, as you look at these pictures, you can only imagine that we're having injuries both on the train and at that station.

[09:35:08] COSTELLO: OK. So, Mary, when they say that the rescue team has to help remove people from the train, that does sound ominous.

SCHIAVO: It does sound ominous. And the other comment was that the train went right through the station. So you have people, obviously, in the building at risk and in danger, as well as on the train. Does, obviously, sound like speed was involved when you hear that line that the train literally, you know, cut through the station. So as every mile of speed increases, you increase the possibility and the forces on the -- on the human body for risk and injury. So, you know, speed is not, you know, speed is not a victim's friend. It would increase the number of injuries and having a train go through a station, especially at rush hour, I can't imagine how many people there are. I've been in that station. It's busy. It's --

COSTELLO: I know. I just got a -- I just go a number from my -- my producer here. She says 15,000 people every week board at that Hoboken station. So you can imagine how many people may have been involved.

Mary, going back to -- you know, you're on the train. A lot of people are standing. Like you said, as the train is approaching the station, many people were at the door eager to get out. They're packed tightly together. There are no seat belts on board those trains. So, you know, if it -- if there was any sort of strong impact, those people would have just gone flying all over the place, right?

SCHIAVO: That's right. Then their injuries would have been, you know, pretty much anything. Lots of head injuries, spine injuries, soft tissue injuries. Lots of things like that. I guess the only hope would be is if there was a difficulty, for whatever reason, slowing the train down, you know, perhaps more people stayed in their seats, but I doubt it. If you're a regular commuter, you know when you're almost at your station and you get up and, you know --

COSTELLO: Yes.

SCHIAVO: I was a New York commuter for a number of years. You get up and you go to your station so you can rush off and get to work, because that's why you're on the train. So I don't know if people would have still been in their seats even if the train was still traveling.

COSTELLO: Hey, Mary. Mary, I'm going to interrupt you for just a second.

We have dramatic video in right now of the crash just as it happened or after it happened. This is -- this is from Twitter from a man who was on the train. Let's look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy crap.

(INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. So, Mary, I'm looking at that video. I'm trying to ascertain what exactly I'm seeing. But certainly the train did run into the wall. There was extensive damage to the train. Part of the material that the train is made of is torn away, you can see. The car in front of the -- of one of the damaged cars was empty of people. So at least they got off the train. But I couldn't see inside the damaged train car to see if everyone was off then. Mary, could you -- could you see that video?

SCHIAVO: I did. I could see that video. And, like you, I couldn't see inside the train or if there were any people still left inside the train. With a -- with a smashing into the station like that, you can only suspect that it was some kind of a malfunction on the train. Certainly one hopes it's not engineer distraction. But that certainly is what it looked like. For some reason they were unable to slow and stop the train. Usually that's a train malfunction, but it can be a distracted engineer. But let -- I -- I would -- I would hope not. Not at this busy hour, et cetera. So, and I can't see.

COSTELLO: Yes, and we keep -- we keep talking about the speed, you know, as the train approached the station. In looking at that damage, is there any way for you to determine how fast the train might have been going? SCHIAVO: Well, that's faster than station speed. Like say when you

head into the station, the train is literally at almost a walking speed. You can -- you can almost walk faster than the train is traveling. And from the looks of this video that we're seeing now, this was a higher speed than a walking speed on the train. This train was traveling faster than the station speed. It's literally like two or three miles an hour when it actually comes into the station to stop. Very slow.

COSTELLO: OK. So Brynn Gingras is here and she's busily gathering information for us.

So what more have you found out?

GINGRAS: Yes, we're learning the NTSB, we called them to find out what their sort of progress is in this and they're just monitoring at this point because they not coming in yet to actually do an investigation. But, again, this just happened. This is very early. So this is something the NTSB will likely be involved in at some point. But as of now, they have not made a decision to launch an investigation as of yet. But again --

[09:40:11] COSTELLO: Really?

GINGRAS: Yes.

COSTELLO: That's interesting. So, Mary, why would that be?

SCHIAVO: That's very, very odd, other than they're -- they have an awful lot on their plate. I mean they have had so many investigations recently. But I would -- I'd -- I would be almost 100 percent certain to say that they will go into this, because this is a high-speed, certainly not a train station speed, crash into the station.

Now, it may be that they are waiting to allow law enforcement to have the first look, because in the pecking order of investigations, if there's any suspicion of any criminal activity, and they always consider this possibility in every kind of a transportation accident nowadays, they might be waiting to make sure that the police, the FBI say that, no, they don't have any indication of criminal activity. And then the scene becomes the NTSBs. So they might be waiting on the law enforcement clearance for them to go in. But I cannot imagine the NTSB setting out an accident of this magnitude. I just can't. They'll be in there.

COSTELLO: Yes, I'm sure they'll be in there, too. It's amazing to me they were on the scene so fast.

For our viewers just joining us, I want to reset the scene. You're looking at a New Jersey train that has crashed at the Hoboken station. We know that there are multiple injuries involved here. I don't know how many or how serious the injuries are. But rescue workers had to actually remove some people from the train cars. So that would indicate some of the injuries might be a little more serious. We just don't know. We know that police and fire department, the NTSB, and, of course, many ambulances are on the scene now. That station is closed. One of my producers actually is on another

train -- on another New Jersey train. She says that announcements have gone out that this Hoboken station is now closed.

You can see the extensive damage here. And Mary Schiavo was telling me that it's certain that the train was going faster than it should have been as it came into this station. And somehow it crashed into the wall. And as you can see, did severe damage to the station.

Brynn Gingras is also here with me.

So the NTSB on the scene. We know that. Ambulances are on the scene rescuing people. What more do we know about this?

GINGRAS: At this point, the scary part is, we don't know the number of injuries. But you are looking at this video and you're seeing how this train, this car, at least this one car, is completely crumbled. So we can imagine there are some extensive injuries at this point, but we don't quite know how extensive we're talking about here.

We do know that the train, according to a source, went right through the station and that's what caused this damage. We know that emergency responders are monitoring this for multiple injuries. We know that multiple ambulances and multiple paramedics have been brought to the scene. Also an urban search and rescue team was deployed to assist in shoring up the structure.

And we talked about that particular station being one that was damaged during Hurricane Sandy. So this is -- also we're learning, OK, from the Federal Railroad Agency is aware of this incident as well. And investigators are en route. So the FRA is involved. We're hearing the NTSB will likely be involved. And, again, that's all emergency responders tending to this and trying to figure out exactly what happened.

COSTELLO: OK. You continue to gather information.

On the phone we me now I have a man named Leon here who shot this video on Twitter you're looking at right now.

Leon, are you with me?

Leon, are you with me?

LEON OFENGENDON, WAS PASSENGER ON THE TRAIN (via telephone): I'm sorry, there's quite a lot of people on the -- on the line.

COSTELLO: Oh, I'm -- OK, Leon, this is Carol Costello.

OFENGENDON: Hello?

COSTELLO: This is Carol Costello and you're live on the air. And, Leon, thank you so much for being with me this morning and sharing this video. Can you just tell me what you saw at that New Jersey transit station? OFENGENDON: Well, when -- I'm now -- actually I'm right now at work.

So when I was at the train station, I was in the third car of the train. We crashed. And the lights within out. A few people screamed. And I didn't see anybody hurt in the train at the third car.

And then when we got out of the car, I could see that the -- at the front of the train, you know, the roof of the station, you know, essentially collapsed. And there was wires and water sort of running down. And a man walked past me, you know, holding his arm. I saw some blood. And, you know, just -- I don't want to describe too much, but I think I'm still in shock a little bit.

And then I made my way to the front and there was a woman coming out of the second car, I believe who had, you know, some blood on her face. And then when I went to the front, the first car, the front car was essentially off the rails, into the -- on the track station and into the -- into the building of the station with the roof sort of collapsed, you know, around it. Wires are hanging everywhere and, you know, those -- I just noticed water sort of, you know, just seeping down past the track on the train and the tracks.

[09:45:17] And, you know, some of the train station crew was looking into the windows. The windows were all mangled and crashed in that first car and I think I saw, you know, a person lying down, I'm hoping that they're OK, next to the train.

At that point, you know, sort of -- they directed us away from, you know, the front car and, you know, we left. We crossed the tracks and climbed up onto the train, you know, to the -- again, back to the train tracks and then on to the platform where a lot of people were waiting and police were sort of getting onto the scene, I think. At this point, you know, there was a man there actually kind of very agitated and I just remember one of the train crew was telling him to calm down and he was yelling at them. He was telling them like he's not going to calm down.

And it was pretty chaotic, let me tell you. And the people were just in shock. And everybody sort of has those photos and their cameras out and their iPads. It was -- it was pretty intense. I took a few snaps and video posted online.

COSTELLO: Leon. Leon.

OFENGENDON: Yes.

COSTELLO: Leon, was the train going fast? Could you tell if it was going at a normal speed as it approached the station?

OFENGENDON: You know, I -- I was sitting in -- in the seat where I couldn't see the window. And I didn't notice that, you know, the train was going at an accelerated pace. It was just going, you know, the speed it was. I just -- I guess, now looking back at it, I think it didn't slow down. It definitely didn't slow down. I -- there was no brake. All of a sudden, just crash. So something happened, you know, obviously. And, you know, the brakes are -- or the train engineer didn't brake as we came into the station. COSTELLO: So we just got a report, Leon, just so you know, that more

than 100 people have been injured. So there are a lot of emergency workers on the scene trying to get people to various hospitals around the New Jersey/New York City area. Just, you know, you said you were in shock, and I can certainly relate to that. It must seem like -- it just must seem like a bad nightmare, right?

OFENGENDON: Well, I mean, it's the same feeling of when you get into a car crash. You know it's -- I've been in a car crash before and I'm sort of -- you know, the tingling feeling in your arms and it's just -- it's pretty disconcerting, yes.

COSTELLO: Leon, thanks for sharing your story. We sure appreciate it. And thank you for allowing us to use the video on your Twitter feed.

I want to go back to Mary Schiavo right now.

Were you able to hear what Leon -- what Leon said about this accident, Mary?

SCHIAVO: Yes, I was. And it does sound -- you know, people's memories will be different, and it's going to take a while for them to sort through. But when he said he recalled that he didn't hear it slow down or didn't feel it breaking, that is -- you know, I've said that that's typical with the kind of a crash where you literally crash through the building, through the barriers, et cetera, because the barriers are meant to hold that train at the speed it's supposed to come into the station. And so with the higher speed, heavy train, it would go right through it. And so it does sound as if it's a failure to break or a problem with the train that it could not be slowed down. And the description of what he saw, of course, is consistent with that. And it's unfortunate now that we learned that there's 100 or so injuries. It's very, very serious, which you'd expect with a high-speed train -- not necessarily high-speed, but an excess speed train crash.

COSTELLO: Well, this is how -- this is how he described it. And I'm just trying to determine how fast this train was going. He -- Leon told us the first car was demolished. He said the train look like it went right through the stop. The first car looked like it catapulted onto the platform into the building. He said the roof collapsed. And there was wire and water everywhere.

SCHIAVO: Well, that's certainly more than a walking speed crash is the indicators of that kind of damage. And especially since it appears now that it actually jumped the tracks and went not necessarily onto the platform, but into the building. I mean that would indicate that you were certainly going many times over the walking speed that you should be going. But if you -- if they failed to break and failed to slow down, that train could have been going 30, 40, 50 miles an hour, which you would certainly not expect anywhere near or in the train station. That would be many times its rate of speed. But we just don't know at this point. But that's not -- that train was definitely over speed, over what it should have been going.

COSTELLO: Yes. I'm getting -- I'm getting e-mails from my producer, who is -- she has the day off and she happens to be on the New Jersey Transit. She says, word has spread to people on, you know, other trains and people are very freaked out right now.

[09:50:09] I see you're busily writing over there, Brynn Gingras. Did you manage to get anything new for us?

GINGRAS: No. I mean just the alarming thing is more than 100 people injured. And it sounds like there were people trapped as well. And you could see from those cars that it's very clear that people probably were trapped.

And what Mary's saying, I mean, you imagine when you -- when you get on these trains, and people are commuting in the morning, a lot of people stand on the platform close to the train knowing that they're about to get on or get off, right? So if this train was going super- fast, you can only hope that people backed up or didn't even approach the train at this point. So it will be interesting to hear these eyewitness accounts, like we just heard from Leon, as to exactly what happened. But again, right now, a big investigation. Lots of agencies involved.

COSTELLO: Yes. I know. Take a look at the scene here. And, Mary, help us determine what exactly they're doing here. They -- I see that there was a blue canopy set up and they have those large buses. So -- so what are you seeing here? And please explain the scene to us and what they're doing.

SCHIAVO: Well, they are obviously are setting up the canopies and the work area because it -- they still may be in the situation of triaging people from the train. They have to sort out who the injuries are, where the injuries and kinds of injuries and where they're going to take them. I mean if they've got 100 or 100 plus people to triage and get to hospitals, you literally have to set -- set up almost a field hospital. And so they're sorting that out.

But also they're -- they are sorting out, you know, sort of the evidence and what's there and being careful to categorize things that they have to take off the train to get people out, et cetera. And the -- you know, that's how they set up the work area. They usually set up those areas where they can work under and then cordon off the area and secure it. And we don't see a lot of the securing part going on, but I'm sure it's there. It has to be there, because that's one of the first things that the first responders and law enforcement, which will be there, is doing.

And again, at this point, they have to consider that it can be a crash scene from, you know, various causes, train problems or problems with the engineer responding or it could be a crime scene, so they have to treat it like a crime scene as well. so at this point, it's, you know, pretty much a CSI until they can rule out any possible criminal activity.

COSTELLO: OK, so this is again, if you're just joining me, this is a New Jersey Transit train. It crashed into a station. An eyewitness to this crash told us the train simply did not stop. It ran into a wall. Part of the roof collapsed at this Hoboken station here. We understand there are more than 100 injuries. You can see all of the emergency personnel on the scene. And I do want to take you back live to the scene now. Our CNN producer

Paul Murphy is standing by. He's been gathering information for us.

What can you tell us, Paul?

PAUL MURPHY, CNN PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, Carol, there -- the response here has been enormous. You're just now about 20 minutes ago having Paterson, New Jersey, Elizabeth, New Jersey fire engines show up with shearing units. Also now you have a New Jersey Transit bus showing up. I doubt it's picking up normal passengers for their commute. That's down closer toward the station. So you have a number of unmarked cars, some still arriving. You have, you know, Jersey City, which is the town to the south. You have Bayonne, which is even further south, these units responding to this. The amount of -- the amount of -- the -- if it wasn't daylight, this entire area would be lit up with blue and red lights because just the sheer amount of vehicles and first responders here is pretty amazing.

COSTELLO: I can only imagine. You mentioned that vehicles were arriving with shearing units. I would assume that means that some people were trapped inside that train car.

MURPHY: Right. And just now there's been some more ambulances arriving. I myself have seen four ambulances leave the scene. And I heard you talking with Mary Schiavo about hospitals nearby and trauma centers. I can say that there is at least one hospital in Hoboken. It's very nearby. I'm not sure what level of trauma, or if it is a trauma center and what level it is, but there is a number of very, very, very close hospitals near to the scene. That is some, you know, positive in this, if that -- if this is a -- was going to happen anywhere, this is a pretty good place because of the -- the amount of hospitals that are nearby (INAUDIBLE).

COSTELLO: And, Paul, I'm sure they're not letting you anywhere near that damaged train, but I have to ask you this question anyway. Are those -- are people still trapped inside the car of that train and the shearing units are arriving on the scene to cut them out, or are those people already out?

MURPHY: I can't -- I can't see and it doesn't look like they're allowing anybody who is a -- was on the train to leave normally. It looks like actually there's a number of people getting -- the New Jersey Transit bus, I'm not sure if you can see it on the aerial, there's a New Jersey Transit bus that it looks like a number of people, and these people look very plainly dressed, that are getting onto. So it doesn't look like anybody eyewitness wise was on the train and is really being allowed to leave normally. Not sure where they're going on this bus.

[09:55:22] But I haven't heard any loud saws or loud sounds of, you know, what would -- what I would think would be them trying to get people out of the train who are possibly stuck. So as far as people who are still stuck, I can't speak to that.

COSTELLO: All right. I'm going to go back to Mary Schiavo to get some of -- to get some of your fine expertise. We do understand, again, that 100 people were injured, some of them

serious. One local official telling us that people were indeed trapped. So that shearing unit, how does that work exactly, Mary?

SCHIAVO: Well, it's like the jaws of life that you hear about in -- it is the jaws of life that you hear about in, for example, car crashes where they have to come and they have to extract people. You know, it's very specialized equipment to cut through metal and to be able to extract people and give people the best chance at life or at least less injuries, and to get them out. So it's equipment that can cut through very heavy metal.

And so, obviously I would assume at this point it is for humans and to get people out of the train because until they have law enforcement and then, of course, Federal Rail Administration and the NTSB have had a chance to look at the train, they would not be at this point, no way they would just be cutting the train apart to get it off the tracks. They will not do that until there's a chance for law enforcement and crash investigators to look at it. So it has to be to get people out of the train.

COSTELLO: Yes. And I understand more help is on the way, Brynn.

GINGRAS: Right. New Jersey Task Force One is what they're called. They're a mix of troopers and law enforcement volunteers. And that's going to help with the search and rescue at this point. So that's the second time we've heard about these search and rescue teams not only going there to help rescue anybody who might be trapped, as we heard there are people likely trapped, but also to sort of look at the situation and see the damage that was caused and if that's obviously trapping people as well.

COSTELLO: But there are a lot of agencies lending help, right? So we have the New Jersey State Police, the NTSB is already on the scene. We have probably the Transit Police, I'm sure, are on the scene.

GINGRAS: Right, the FA too, as well, monitoring it. I mean as your producer said, this is an area that is -- has a lot of help. I mean it's right outside of New York City. So we have New Jersey helping out and, of course, if need, New York will help out as well. So this is a location that a lot of resources could get to very quickly.

COSTELLO: Does it look to you, Brynn, like they're treating people on the scene?

GINGRAS: They likely are. That's usually what happens, a triage center sort of evaluates what's happening at the scene and then from there that's where you see all those ambulances standing by to quickly get people to hospitals if need be. But usually a triage centers is set up right away.

COSTELLO: So the NTSB, Mary, is already on the scene. Are they already interviewing people, you think, because, you know, people have to get to work, even though this terrible thing has happened, and they're usually quick to leave? SCHIAVO: Well, they're trying to. That's -- you're exactly right,

people want to leave, people need to get to work. They're -- what -- the most important things they're doing right now, other than making sure that the people who are injured are taken care of, is they're looking for obviously the engineer, and the engineer won't -- if he's -- if he's OK, or she's OK and able to talk, and they will set up a time to talk to the engineer. They often have to coordinate that with any union that might be involved. But that's going to be their -- one of their top priorities.

They're also seeing if this train has any -- the train recorder devices they're looking for. If there are any recordings. They're asking all the people there about their cell phones, if they took pictures of things and getting the names of the people on the train, et cetera.

And then, of course, the machinery part. You know, trains, you know, for example, let's say if people were suspecting some kind of criminal activity, they are much more involved than, for example, a car, because you have braking mechanisms on both sides of the train. It's not just one side or the other. There's not just one mechanism. There are multiple braking mechanisms on the trains. Some of the cars have braking mechanisms depending upon the age of the train. And so there are so many moving parts that they have to look at that the NTSB is going to be very busy. And, of course, the Federal Rail Administration is the entity that's involved in inspecting trains, so they'll be coordinating with them to find out when was the last time this train was inspected, who inspected it, what did they do, did they look at the entire train, which cars did they look, are these the new more modern cars, they call them crumple cars, that absorb the energy in a crash.

[09:59:52] So the NTSB and Federal Rail Administration and local law enforcement have an awful lot of things that they have to look at, but first and foremost they're looking for any of those train recording devices and the devices record your speed, when you sound the horn, for example, is recorded, what -- any of the throttle movements and control movements are recorded.