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New Jersey Train Accident; Trump Team Scrambles to Find New Debate Strategy. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 29, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We also learned that the people, civilians, seeing what happened, helped first-responders get people off the train, Poppy. And they were doing it as quickly as they could as emergency responders were coming right here to the scene this morning; 8:45 is when it happened.

A train, 1614 was the train, New Jersey Transit from Spring Hill, New York -- Spring Hill, New York, and this was the last stop in Hoboken, and so people would have had to transfer to another train to get to work in New York City, which is right across the Hudson River from here -- Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Jean Casarez, thank you very much for the reporting.

I want to go now on the phone to Monica Nolasco. She was on the train this morning when this all happened.

Thank you for being with us, Monica.

MONICA NOLASCO, PASSENGER: Hi. Of course.

HARLOW: I understand that you were sitting in the back of the train, the very back. You fortunately were not injured at all, and it wasn't until you got off the train, Monica, that you really realized the magnitude of what happened.

NOLASCO: That's exactly right.

So when the train kind of jerked to a halt, I just thought it was a rally abrupt stop. I kind of just like kind of fell forward to the seat in front of me. The gentleman standing next to me in the aisle face-planted to the ground.

And the conductor was yelling at all of us to kind of stay where we were seated and make sure everyone was OK. After a minute or two, we just kind of simply filed off the train. And I looked around and I thought everything was fine. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. The train was where it was supposed to be, by the platform.

And then it's when I start moving towards the front of the train that I realized something is really wrong.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: You talked about pulling people out of windows?

NOLASCO: Yes.

HARLOW: Water gushing everywhere.

As the train was approaching the station, did it seem to be slowing down at all?

NOLASCO: I couldn't tell you that, unfortunately. When the train was pulling into the station, I was getting my things together. I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. It wasn't until I really got that abrupt stop that I noticed that something was off.

HARLOW: One thing that Governor Christie said in the press conference last hour that really struck me is how much commuters, all of you who were there and not injured jumped in to help. Can you talk us through some of that heroism that you saw from all of the people at the station this morning?

NOLASCO: Yes, of course.

One of the first things that went through my head once I was witnessing what was unfolding in front of me was, what am I supposed to be doing, how can I help? I was in a bit of a state of a shock, so I was kind of unsure of what to do, but once I stepped outside, that's where I really noticed that people were actually helping one another, which was really inspiring to see.

There were people sitting on the ground who were bleeding and they were injured. And there were others were pressing down on their wounds or holding their hand. There were people were crying on one another. But in that kind of moment, what else can you do except offer a helping hand? So it was really inspiring to see.

HARLOW: Absolutely. Monica, we're so glad you're OK.

NOLASCO: Thank you.

HARLOW: What a horrifying morning. Thank you very much for being with us.

All right, I want to go now to Brian Farnham. He witnessed the aftermath.

Thank you for being with me.

BRIAN FARNHAM, WITNESS: Thank you.

HARLOW: You said it didn't seem like chaos at the time when you were there. Do you think people were in shock? What is it that you witnessed?

FARNHAM: Yes. So, I was part of the wave of commuters who came in on a train that

arrived minutes, moments after the crash. And we didn't have any idea what was going on. But we arrived soon enough after that, there hadn't been enough of a response.

I think all the first-responders were on the train. They'd rushed to the scene. So even the people working on the train, the conductors, nobody had sort of managed the bystanders, the other passengers yet.

We walked off our train, disembarked as if everything was normal. No one said anything. There were no announcements. There was no noise, there was no chaos, there was nothing that -- it seemed normal.

And then the first thing we saw was that the crowd that is usually moving swiftly through the platform area to the PATH train that was described before as the main connection for us to go into the city off of these commuter trains, we were walking through.

And the crowd started to back. So, there was some sort of logjam, which was very unusual. Again, at this point, no panic, no chaos, people just, what's going on? We continued to move through that until you reached an area where you could see what your viewers are probably seeing in the pictures, this kind of canopy roof that had caved in.

And so that was obviously something very wrong, but still didn't seem catastrophic. It looked like, from where I was, maybe some beam had fell or a tree had fallen. Who knew?

But then, a couple steps further, you could see there was a train where they should not be a train. And that's namely 50 feet up the concrete platform well past the terminal of the track, and blocking the very place where all of us were supposed to and usually go, blocking the entrance to the PATH, but, again, no explanations from anyone at this point, just orderly people trying to figure out, what is happening in my commute and what is this very strange scene?

[15:05:24]

It was almost like a surreal museum exhibit of a train on a track and a platform where it shouldn't be.

HARLOW: Pretty remarkable.

You never know what it is going to feel like until you go through something like it. I'm glad that obviously the people, so many people that could have been injured weren't, but, again you still have one death and 108 injuries, some people still in critical condition.

Thank you very much for talking to us, Brian. I appreciate it.

Investigators are just a few hours into trying to figure out what happened. They know what happened, but why it happened, and why this train just didn't seem to slow down.

I'm join by CNN safety analyst David Soucie. We have learned something really important, David. And we have just learned that this train did not have something called PTC, positive train control. That is something that would slow down or stop a train if a conductor or engineer isn't able to.

Congress actually mandated that commuter rails like this have positive train control by 2015. That was then extended to 2018 because the municipalities said, we can't meet that deadline. We don't know if positive train control would have prevented what happened this morning, but what is your assessment of what we know at this hour?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: We may not know that it would have stopped this from happening. What we do know it that was designed to stop exactly this from happening, so the fact that it was not installed rests squarely on the shoulders of Congress.

Congress put in 2008 a bill saying that it had to be in place by 2015. And if you remember, you and I talked about the Amtrak accident in Philadelphia, in which lives were lost there, and that train did not have that particular section with PTC in it.

So Congress, in their infinite wisdom, went back and said in 2015 that we're going to extend this now, because it was supposed to be done by December of 2015. They extended it three years, Poppy. This is not the way that thing needs to be run.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: You have already had some state senators speaking out about it. Nancy Pelosi spoke about it today.

But aside from just having that, in terms of getting to the root cause of it, David, why are there not two conductors, for example, and why are there not cameras inside of that cabin, so you can see exactly what happened? One of the witness accounts says the conductor was slumped over.

We will ever really know why if there aren't cameras on that and the cameras are just seeing what's going on outside?

SOUCIE: Let's talk about the two conductors first, Poppy. That's a really good question, because if you're saying that you need to have positive train control in the event that the conductor does have a medical emergency, then that's what positive train control would do.

But if you're not going have that in place, you're going to extend it further, any smart person would say, well, let's then have a secondary backup, let's have a second person in the engine and make sure that that is backed up. That would make sense, especially if you're going to extend some safety controls like that.

Now, as far as cameras up there, cameras would give you a lot of information. It's always paralleled with cameras in the cockpit of airlines. And they always talk about that and use the argument. But there's no comparison with the argument whatsoever.

And cameras in this area would tell you the speed of the train, it would tell you where it's going, it would tell you if there's anything outside of the train, if it's come off the rail, more information than just whether the conductor is slumped over or not.

Having cameras is an investigative tool. It's to tell you what happened after the fact. But putting a second person in there is something that could be preventative, and that's where we need to focus in safety is on prevention, not in post-accident investigations.

HARLOW: Such a good point. There's always two pilots. Why wouldn't there be two engineers running the train?

David, thank you very much.

SOUCIE: Absolutely. Thank you.

HARLOW: Coming up next, in politics, Donald Trump expected to speak in just a few moments live from New Hampshire, this as his team scrambles to put together a new debate strategy.

Also, did Mark Cuban get inside Donald Trump's head as he sat in the front row during the debate on Monday night? Hear what Hillary Clinton just told a crowd in Iowa about that.

And moments ago, presidential candidate Gary Johnson responding to his town hall gaffe last night when he was unable to name a foreign leader that he respects.

Also, is the newspaper editorial board that just endorsed him this morning standing by him?

Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:13:58]

HARLOW: To politics now.

In just minutes, Donald Trump will speak live in New Hampshire, this as his team is scrambling to cement his strategy for his next debate on October 9 with Hillary Clinton. And minutes ago, Clinton took a jab at what many say was a poor debate performance by Trump. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, at the debate the other night, one of my well-known supporters, Mark Cuban, was there in the front row. And he really, I think, unsettled my opponent.

(LAUGHTER)

CLINTON: But I'll tell you, Mark Cuban is a real billionaire who actually uses profit-sharing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Mark Cuban, of course, invited by the Clinton camp and placed in the front row of the debate on Monday night.

The first debate took center stage on a rough conference call that Trump aides had with campaign surrogates. Sources tell CNN that aides made it clear in a -- quote -- "not-so-subtle way" that Trump is angry that some of his own allies publicly admitted he struggled during the first presidential face-off with Clinton.

[15:15:03]

And now there is talk of a new man set to take over Trump's debate strategy.

Let's go live to CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash.

Dana, it was clear that Roger Ailes played somewhat of a role, that Rudy Giuliani took over more of that role heading up to the debate Monday night. Now they're scrapping all of that. Who is in charge?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's nothing that is being set -- that is set right now. And there's nothing formal in terms of changes.

But what is happening looking forward is a consideration of an overhaul. You talked about the fact that there's still a lot of hand- wringing about what happened, a lot of disagreement from Trump himself and others about how bad it really was.

But what's most important right now from the perspective of the people who are close to Trump and want him to succeed is, what do you do next to change it? So, an overhaul is being considered. And most importantly what we're told is that a person who is being considered to lead debate prep the next time is New Jersey Governor Chris Christie.

I should say that this reporting comes from a tip that our Gloria Borger first got and that she and I have been reporting out. But I just want to underscore that this is a big may, may. The reason why this is under consideration is for a couple of reasons.

Number one, Chris Christie has known Donald Trump for a very long time. He is, as we know -- speaks quite bluntly in public and even more so in private, even and especially to someone like Donald Trump, who doesn't always get that kind of blunt talk from even his friends.

And so the feeling is that he needs to be told more, you know, you have to do it this way, that way and the other way, as opposed to the way that you feel comfortable with and going with your gut, Mr. Trump.

The other reason is because Chris Christie is the person who is in Trump's orbit, Poppy, who has the most recent experience being on the debate stage against Trump himself.

HARLOW: Sure.

BASH: He was debating during the Republican primary. Rudy Giuliani has experience, but it's 8 years old, and others around him not so much.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Well, and you remember what Christie did with Marco Rubio on that stage.

BASH: Right. Marco Rubio really never recovered after Chris Christie took a whack at Rubio during those debates.

So you're absolutely right.

Now, I should say a couple of things to underscore the caveats here. Number one, Chris Christie himself, we have him on the record saying the following. "I have not been asked to do anything new and, as far as I know, there is no new debate prep scheduled."

And also Kellyanne Conway, the campaign chair, told us that Chris Christie is not currently under consideration. So, those are the caveats there. As we know, as we have been reporting for many days now, there are lots of different ideas about what went wrong, why it went wrong, and what needs to be changed in the future.

So we will see how this all plays out. But the fact that this does appear to be under discussion, that Chris Christie is somebody who might be somebody -- we should say he was in the room, I am told, pretty much for all of the sessions before the first debate. He was there.

So the question now is how you -- how and if you take his expertise, his relationship with the candidate and maybe channel it and streamline it a little bit, if that happens.

BASH: And Donald Trump, when he spoke to you right after the debate on Monday night, said -- threatened that he might bring up former President Bill Clinton's infidelities in the next debate, something he hinted to on Monday night in the debate, but said he wouldn't go there.

So, after the debate, his campaign, his family sort of celebrating the fact that he didn't necessarily go there, but now these talking points that we have from the Trump camp tell their surrogates to do the opposite, to actually go there, to talk about Monica Lewinsky, to talk about Gennifer Flowers, to talk about Hillary Clinton as it relates to how those women were treated.

But then there are GOP lawmakers on the Hill who are saying to Trump, don't do that.

BASH: Exactly.

Well, this just speaks to why, when I'm even reporting the question of whether Chris Christie would take a more leading role, even be in charge of debate prep, I'm doing so with caution, because there are lots of different people with different perspectives close to Trump who are leading his campaign and advising him. And so you're really -- you're seeing that play out. And the whole question of using Monica Lewinsky is a perfect example of that, Poppy, the fact that she was in the talking points that went out to surrogates yesterday, to use that. At the same time, we know from sources we're talking to who are sort of close to Trump who think that's a terrible idea, never mind the lawmakers that our Manu Raju and Ted Barrett and others on the Hill have been talking to who are saying publicly do not do that, that would be a huge, epic mistake.

[15:20:01]

So, we're kind of seeing this play out real time as to how they recalibrate and if they can recalibrate, because the thing to keep in mind that I have been told over and over, over the past year-plus, but especially since this first debate, is Donald Trump is the guy who's in charge.

He knows what he wants to do. He knew what he wanted to do. He feels comfortable with his gut and he followed that. The question is, can he cede some of that, does he want to cede some of that and listen to people who are going to be a little bit tougher on him, who have experience successfully performing or at least helping people perform in debates at this level?

HARLOW: Yes, because he's publicly said many times since Monday night I won that debate and the online polls, he says, show us. So how do you convince someone who thinks they won that the majority of the public doesn't think you did and you got to change strategy?

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: That's the conundrum. That's the conundrum inside Trump Tower right now. I think you just nailed it.

HARLOW: Yes. Dana, great reporting, as always. Thank you so much.

BASH: Thanks.

HARLOW: Let's talk about this bigger conversation. We have with us Democratic strategist Chris Kofinis, who supports Hillary Clinton, and Betsy McCaughey, a Trump supporter who used to be the lieutenant governor of New York.

Thank you for being here.

Look, Chris, let me just get your take as a Clinton supporter on if Chris Christie jumps in on the debate prep. He did a pretty good job debating against Marco Rubio. You heard Dana Bash say Rubio didn't really recover after that. Does that make you at least get you a little bit more on your toes as a Clinton supporter?

CHRIS KOFINIS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Only if Chris Christie shows up instead of Donald Trump. Otherwise, I'm not going to that concerned.

The problem is, it's not just debate prep. Debate prep, having done it, it's about kind of honing the focus of the candidate. But what you saw the rails come off for Trump in that debate is when he actually had to debate and talk about specifics, in particular about foreign policy, where some of his answers were literally nonsensical.

And that really -- that lack of knowledge is not something you can learn in the span of a few days. And so part of the problem, I think, for Trump is, how do you gain that knowledge when you don't know necessarily what questions are going to be asked? You're facing a town hall debate. The next one is a very different dynamic than standing on the stage one on one.

You're interacting with real people. You don't necessarily what they're going to ask. They are going to ask a lot of different policy type of questions. And he just doesn't have that depth of knowledge, which is why, when Clinton was jabbing him, he kind of disintegrated. He just didn't have a substantive response.

HARLOW: Betsy, let me get your take on this. You are a Trump supporter. Did you get these talking points from the Trump camp yesterday...

(CROSSTALK)

BETSY MCCAUGHEY, FORMER NEW YORK LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: I didn't see them, but I have been very, very busy.

Let me point out, however, that...

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Well, let me just ask my question to you, because I wanted to a ask you about these talking points, because a big chunk of them, Betsy, is about the past President Bill Clinton's infidelities.

MCCAUGHEY: OK. Well, that's exactly what I wanted to address.

HARLOW: It talks about Gennifer Flowers. It talks about Monica Lewinsky.

My question to you is, why do you think that would be -- do you think that would an effective strategy for Donald Trump to bring up in the next debate or the third and final presidential debate, to bring up her husband's past indiscretions? Why does that work?

MCCAUGHEY: I have three daughters and two granddaughters.

I don't want to see any woman, Ms. Machado, Ms. Lewinsky, Ms. Flowers, anybody else exploited during this political process. I find it abhorrent. And the worst of all I find is those little girls in Mrs. Clinton's television ad, the nameless little girls who are standing in the mirror looking extremely uncomfortable, distressed about their own body types.

Here's why that's so distressing, because I have sat at the bedside of a child nearing death from anorexia. And there are families all over this country who have gone this for years.

(CROSSTALK)

MCCAUGHEY: Let me just finish.

And to see Mrs. Clinton take this terrible epidemic that's afflicting our daughters all across the country and turn it into a political ad, and then blame this very complex mental health problem on Donald Trump is the lowest I have ever seen a politician go.

HARLOW: OK, Betsy, Betsy, I want to get back to Lewinsky and these talking points in a moment.

(CROSSTALK)

MCCAUGHEY: Well, Lewinsky is part of that bigger issue.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Betsy, I would like to jump in and follow up on what you just said. And you just criticized Hillary Clinton for using these women in her ad.

MCCAUGHEY: Yes, I did. Terrible.

HARLOW: So, my question is, do you condone the comments that Donald Trump has made about women's weight and their appearance more than once, more than twice, more than three times?

MCCAUGHEY: I don't know what Donald Trump may have said privately 20 years ago. But I saw the CNN tape.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: He has been publicly critical -- he was publicly critical...

MCCAUGHEY: I saw the CNN tape.

HARLOW: ... of Alicia Machado's weight.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Betsy, let me finish, please. She said that that led her to having anorexia and bulimia.

[15:25:00]

So, since you brought those two horrific diseases up, my question is, do you think that Donald Trump has played any role in that offense as well?

MCCAUGHEY: Terrible.

No, I don't. And I think it's amazing that Mrs. Clinton -- look, she had to go back 20 years to find something that he is alleged to have said, alleged, in public...

(CROSSTALK) HARLOW: No. He's on tape saying that she gave...

MCCAUGHEY: I saw the tape.

HARLOW: He said on FOX News this week she gained a -- quote -- "massive amount of weight, and it was a big problem for us."

MCCAUGHEY: That's right. She did and she was a beauty queen under contract with him.

HARLOW: And Alicia Machado said that it drove her to be anorexic and bulimic.

So, since you bring up eating disorders, do you think that he has no culpability or responsibility?

(CROSSTALK)

MCCAUGHEY: I don't.

I think that Hollywood -- and most of the literature, by the way, parents all across the country who, like me, have sought out the advice of doctors and read hundreds of articles about anorexia and bulimia have found that Hollywood, the people who support Mrs. Clinton, are far more to blame.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I'm not advising him to go there. It's fair game to think about how Hillary Clinton treated those women after the fact. She called Monica Lewinsky...

WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": Kind of like how he treats women all the time.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

CONWAY: To answer your question, it's really whether treatment...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So that's Kellyanne Conway, the Trump campaign manager, talking today on "The View," saying -- you know, reprimanding Donald Trump for talking about Alicia Machado's weight, Betsy. That's the campaign manager.

MCCAUGHEY: She's entitled to that.

And let me point out that Donald Trump's campaign manager is a mother with four little children. And if he were not very understanding and appreciative of working mothers, she wouldn't have that job.

HARLOW: OK. Let's move on. I have got to move on here.

(CROSSTALK)

KOFINIS: Wait. Wait. Wait. Do we really have to move on?

Because, I mean, I just enjoy watching her speak, because the more that she speaks, she just confirms to any potential voter out there why you literally have to question your sanity when you think about what Donald Trump says.

The notion that a man who has embraced his offensive rhetoric somehow didn't say his offensive rhetoric, it -- I sometimes think I live in an alternative universe.

(CROSSTALK)

MCCAUGHEY: Wait a second. It's Mrs. Clinton who's running the cynical political ads.

(CROSSTALK)

KOFINIS: I let you speak. So, give me a second just to respond. Right?

So, the reality is, you ignore the fact that over the course of a year in the primary campaign, in the general election campaign, he's offended veterans, he's offended women, he's offended Hispanics, he's offended every ethnic group.

Now, I don't understand why you would run for president wanting to alienate every demographic group that helps make this country great, but apparently

MCCAUGHEY: I'm laughing because Mrs. Clinton has called half of us deplorable.

(CROSSTALK)

KOFINIS: Well, I'm sorry to say, but when you say things like this, and you apparently defend it, it is deplorable. Right?

When you are saying things that basically make Americans divided and Americans somehow question each other's patriotism, that is deplorable. When you make...

(CROSSTALK)

MCCAUGHEY: And that is exactly what Mrs. Clinton has been doing.

KOFINIS: Wait a second.

When you make women feel somehow embarrassed, right, for their weight and you do it and you embrace it, that is deplorable. So, I'm sorry. At some point, enough is enough. (CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Hey, guys, I want to jump in because I want to ask you about -- Betsy, I want to jump in, because I do want to get both of your takes before I run out of time, about something that Donald Trump said last night in Iowa talking about religion, speaking to a group of Christian conservatives in Iowa.

Here's what he said last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But we have our Christian conservatives for Trump today. And they here in the room. Let's go.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: That's what we want. That's beautiful. See that?

In fact, they put this -- you see that, right here, Christian conservatives.

Raise your hand, Christian conservatives, everybody.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: Raise your hand if you're not a Christian conservative. I want to see this, right?

That's -- oh, there's a couple people. That's all right. I think we will keep them, right?

Shall we keep them in the room? Yes? I think so.

So, I want to thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Betsy, to you.

Do you think that, if he was joking about this...

(CROSSTALK)

MCCAUGHEY: That was cute humor. I like it.

HARLOW: Should he be joking about this, when people point to him and say that he is prejudiced?

MCCAUGHEY: Well, no, because he knows he's not prejudiced. If he thought he were, he wouldn't be joking about it.

But the fact is that Donald Trump is not a prejudiced person. He was addressing a group that labels themselves Christian conservatives. And he gave them a warm welcome. And it was a nice way to start the event But the media, the liberal media, are so biased against this man, he could say good morning and you would try to find racism in it.

HARLOW: Do you really believe that, Betsy?

MCCAUGHEY: I do. I do.

HARLOW: Final word, Chris?

KOFINIS: Well, I mean, listen, Donald Trump's worst enemy is Donald Trump.

It is his rhetoric and his lack of discipline and focus that is the reason why his campaign is where he is. I mean, there's no question that I think the American people...