Return to Transcripts main page

QUEST MEANS BUSINESS

Deutsche Bank Rallies Over Fine Relief Hopes; Former Wells Fargo Employee Fights Back Against Bank; Brexit Vote: 99 Days Later; Martin: Democracy Creates Economic Success; London's Restaurant Scene Booming Post- Brexit; Aston Martin CEO Predicted Instability Post-Brexit; Does Trump Pay Any Income Tax? Clinton's Missing Emails

Aired September 30, 2016 - 16:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[16:00:00] PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR: Nice way to close a Friday. Elizabeth Hurley there doing her best to combat breast cancer. Why to do

out the week. You never would have predicted it. A 200-point gain to close the quarter. Not bad, it is Friday, September 30th. Helping lead

the charge higher, Deutsche Bank bouncing back from fears of a Lehman style collapse.

Boycotting Wells Fargo, a former employee takes on the embattled bank urging customers to close their accounts. And 99 days on from Brexit, can

you believe it? Top CEOs and political leaders map Britain's path out of the EU.

I'm Paula Newton and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

The trading on Deutsche Bank has left me all but speechless. I mean, you only have to look at the share price to get a sense of the drama that

continues to unfold over at Germany's largest bank. Shares first tumbled to a record low before coming back with a vengeance to finish just over 6

percent higher. Investors had feared Deutsche Bank may struggle to pay a settlement with the U.S. government without some form of bailout.

Today, Deutsche Bank's CEO, John Cryan, called those fears unjustified. He wrote to staff, "Forces in the markets are trying to damage public trust in

the bank. At no point in the last two decades has the balance sheet of Deutsche Bank been as stable as it is today." Quite a claim. European

leaders are looking around wondering who is going to try and fix this mess. The ECB President, Mario Draghi, has denied his low interest rate policy is

to blame for Deutsche Bank's problems.

And Germany's government has recently denied reports that it is working on a possible rescue plan for the bank. Now Italy's economy minister has

called for a quick solution, as you might expect, saying, it's in everyone's interest for things to be resolved. Now if Deutsche Bank can't

turn this thing around, it won't just be Germany's problem. Clare Sebastian joins me here in the studio to tell us more. Clare, this is what

everyone's wondering, right? What is the trigger point and how do we know it is not overblown?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNNMONEY CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, Paula. John Cryan says is the market forces. But there are actually many other forces out here in

play. Take a look here at the risks. There are lower rates. Mario Draghi denies it, but it has been easier, according to all of the experts, has

been eating into Deutsche Bank's profits. It's that essentially the price they can charge for their loans, this is the core of their business. There

is another risk, tighter regulation. Deutsche Bank very much relies on investment bank near the core of its business, and that is where the

regulations have really been stepped up since 2008.

Legal punishments, we talk a lot about this. But it's not just the $14 billion fine from the Department of Justice for mortgage backed securities,

Deutsche Bank has spent years paying for its past sins, everything from LIBOR rigging to violating U.S. sanctions. There's not just these external

factors there's also capital in the bank. I'm going to circle that because that is absolutely key. All banks across the board have had to

recapitalized in the wake of the crises. And many believe Deutsche Bank has just been too slow in doing it. It still lags behind many of its peers

in terms of its tier 1 capital ratio. That's one of the key measures of how well capitalized a bank is.

And there is a reason why all this matters so much. Take a look. Deutsche Bank is huge, frankly. It's $2 trillion in assets. That is more than half

of the size of the entire German economy. And another reason beyond that, it's not just its size, this is one of the most interconnected banks in the

entire world. It is basically connected through billions of dollars in derivatives contracts to all the major banks around the world. You can see

the European ones in blue. The American ones up here in red, and the Asian ones in green. Europe clearly the most exposed.

But the bottom line is, this bank is clearly too big and too interconnected to fail. So even if Deutsche Bank doesn't manage to recapitalize itself,

doesn't manage to raise money on its own, most people think that either the German government or perhaps even the ECB that would be forced to step in.

There is too much at stake otherwise, Paula.

NEWTON: Otherwise, but hey, those are dirty words on Main Street, aren't they, Clare? Too big to fail. No one wants to hear that. Is this in any

way shape or form closer to the situation we had with Royal Bank of Scotland? When you start to think about what the German government could

do.

SEBASTIAN: There's certainly merit in looking at that comparison, because a lot of people say, you know, this is the next demon. This could be

something along those lines. But really, there are several options out there.

[16:05:01] And the Royal Bank of Scotland rescued by the U.K. government really gave the U.K. government a stake in what it was doing. They took

over a certain amount in the company and they were really able to have a say, not only in how the company was run, but even things along the lines

of CEO pay. Now these things are never as clear cut, as you and I know, Paula. They're still not profitable. They just had their eighth straight

year of losses, but it's still better than having to bail out the entire financial system like we did after Lehman.

NEWTON: Clare Sebastian, thank you very much. That was pretty thorough, as thorough as it's going to get right now for us to get transparency on

what is going on at Deutsche Bank.

Now the Dow enjoyed its biggest gains of the week off the back of that Deutsche Bank rally. We had triple digit swings every day this week. The

Dow eventually closed 164 points higher. That means it closed the week slightly higher, despite the big losses on Monday and Thursday. Sounds

like that market that can't make up its mind.

Now in Europe the late rally in Deutsche shares meant that the DAX was the best performer on Friday. Other banks weren't so lucky though, with

financial stocks weighing in on that London market. Lloyd's finished almost 2 percent lower.

While the economic sky hasn't fallen since Brexit, the divisions in the U.K. and Europe are as deep as ever, 99 days after the historic vote.

We'll speak to Wetherspoons' chairman and the Aston Martin's CEO to find out about the challenges lie ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEWTON: Going back to our top story tonight. Deutsche Bank shares swung from a record low to their highest level in more than a week. All in the

space of just one trading session. Charles Huber was a member of the Bundestag for Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union. And I will put

the question to you. Is there any way that your government will bailout Deutsche Bank?

CHARLES HUBER, BUNDESTAG MEMBER, CHRISTIAN DEMOCRATIC UNION: I think this is a big question, and I am a member with the German parliament, and we

already discussed that issue. And I think I just can't speak for now, from my opinion, I think we have at least to do something to save the Deutsche

Bank. Deutsche Bank is an icon of the German economy, and I think we have to find a solution, either on the national or on the European level.

NEWTON: You've just said not so much there, which actually has huge ramifications for all of Europe. You know how Europe feels about this, and

they are going to say, why are we, the Italians, the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Greeks, are going to say, why are we taking lessons from

Germany about this? Why would there ever be a bailout of Deutsche Bank?

[16:10:00] HUBER: Good, the decision is not made yet. I just said, we have to find a decision and I think if there is no decision to bail out

Deutsche Bank, if the Deutsche Bank needs some bailout. That's not clear yet. I think the investors still have confidence in the potential of the

German bank. It's not very much clear if Deutsche Bank needs a bailout at all. But if you talk about the possibility, the option in the need, the

German bank needs a bailout, I think we have to think -- and me I represent my constituency is inside of Frankfurt -- I strongly suggest to go into

that direction and to bail the German bank out. But that's not the case yet.

NEWTON: And it's not the case yet, but that obviously has thrown a lot of the future of Deutsche Bank into question. You know, there have been a lot

of accusations with the fact that Deutsche Bank didn't do what American banks did after 2008 and 2009. You know, everyone has argued that Europe

needs more overtight over its banks, and they needed to clean up their balance sheets a long time ago.

HUBER: I don't want to -- I think the story about the Deutsche Bank, which is the story now we're talking about, has a back story as well. The back

story as well is that the German bank was the first bank who was informed and who was knowledgeable about derivative banking in a sophisticated way.

Sophisticated way like it happened on Wall Street, and it was our major actor on Wall Street.

Let me tell you one thing, if you would have asked a banker here who takes care of the private assets of people here, if you would have asked about

the mortgage backed securities were, what credit defaults swaps were, what CDOs were, nobody would have given you an answer. If you would have talked

about swaps, maybe they said it would have been, sorry to say, a bathroom cleaner.

It was our first and our major actor. But the thing was, it was the back story also contains that the CEOs were not very really accurately

evaluated. Not very accurately rated as well. And the idea of subprime credits, I think I was at this time, you know when people took subprime

credit, it sounds good. The name subprime sounds good, but it is still subprime. Ask a very simple technique, East African landlord, and I said -

- he said, "You know, what I did, Charles?" I said, "What did you do?" "I bought with a couple friends, I bought an apartment house." I said, "You

bought an apartment house and may have lived in the wrong country." If you as a landlord can buy an apartment house, I said, "Either your friends

you're buying the apartment house with are a lot richer than you are or something is wrong with the apartment house." He said "No, Charles,

they're all in the same income level." So the thing is, if you take -- if I, for example, if I buy an apartment here, I try to keep my interest rate

stable not only for two years, but to keep it stable for as long as possible.

NEWTON: I think --

[CROSSTALK]

HUBER: ... low interest rate of the house.

NEWTON: I think if I hear you correctly, you're saying that you believe the German government needs to do what had t has to do to keep Deutsche

Bank alive and well in the banking system. I'm sorry, were going to have to leave it there now. But we will continue to follow this story with you

as we figure out more about Deutsche Bank's future in the coming weeks. Appreciate your time.

It is 99 days since the United Kingdom shocked the world and decided to exit the European Union. Fifty-two percent of voters said they wanted to

leave and the debate over Europe that had swelled in Britain for decades finally boiled over. It pitted the young against the old, cities against

towns, the highly educated against the working class. And it left the future of the European Project hanging in the balance. Here's a look back

at that night in June as the U.K. went to sleep a part of Europe and woke up as a truly separate nation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CAMERON, FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It is time for the British people to have their say.

BORIS JOHNSON, FORMER MAYOR OF LONDON: This Thursday could be our country's Independence Day.

HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: It's 10:00 in the United Kingdom and polling stations are now closed.

NIGEL FARAGE, LEADER OF THE UK INDEPENDENCE PARTY: I'm not conceding, but my sense of this is that the governments registration scheme, getting the

two million voters on, the 48-hour extension, maybe what tips the balance.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR: A night that many had feared, some had forecast, but now appears to be turning into a reality.

GORANI: Ok, here's was going on. It looks like the leave campaign, the Brexit camp, has gained an almost unstoppable momentum.

[16:15:00] FARAGE: Dare to dream that the dawn is breaking on an independent United Kingdom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Already the pound is tanking. You've got the euro tanking as well against the dollar. That is questioning the whole European

project. The markets need to know what David Cameron's thoughts are.

CAMERON: I think the country requires fresh leadership to take it in this direction.

QUEST: The people have spoken. The majesty of the process, whether or not you like the result, first time ever, a nation has voted to leave the

European Union. It will be the smallest of majorities, and it appears tonight Brexit has won.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Thank you, Richard, Brexit won indeed, and global markets plunged and the pound crashed. Britain's deep divisions were on display for the

whole world to see. Now the ensuing Conservative Party infighting gave the country a whole new government, and it's second ever female prime minister.

Now Europe is demanding answers, which the U.K. seems very reluctant to give. Quentin Peel is in London. He's an associate fellow with the Europe

Programme at Chatham, thank you very much. One hundred days, it might as well be 100 minutes, and still do not have any clarity on how Brexit is

actually going to happen.

QUENTIN PEEL, ASSOCIATE FELLOW, EUROPE PROGRAM AT CHATHAM HOUSE: Yes, that is absolutely right. It's a complete muddle. I think the government is

still divided within itself. I think even those who campaigned for Brexit are divided. Half of them want a sort of total free trade existence with

the rest of the world, and not sure what the relationship will be with Europe, but the other half want a sort of soft Brexit that won't be too

painful. And it is looking increasingly as if that's simply won't be possible. It's either going to be reverse the whole decision, which looks

extremely unlikely, or take a really uncomfortable exit.

NEWTON: I think what's been interesting in terms of watching the economy, we should say, the sky hasn't fallen in on the British economy. It's

actually been fairly steady and stable. Do you think that the other shoe has yet to drop on that, and more to the point, is the uncertainty hurting

it now? Doesn't Matter Which Way, Britain goes on this, hard or soft Brexit, the point is, get something done.

PEEL: Someone described this very nicely to me as the Wiley coyote moment. You know, when he's chasing the road runner off of the cliff, and he's

hanging there in the air with his feet going around and round, but he hasn't fallen down yet. And I think that's where we are in the Brexit

moment. We haven't left the European Union. Nothing has actually changed, but the uncertainty is clearly building up.

And we're seeing more and more big investors, we had Nissans boss yesterday, saying look, we are simply not going to take any new investment

decisions until we know what this looks like. We're having overwhelming numbers from the city of London expressing deep concern about the way ahead

for them, because they do not expect to be able to keep the same degree of access to the single market that they have now. And they're going to have

to fight every bit of the way or they're going to have to move quite a lot of people out of London and into parts of the European Union.

NEWTON: we don't have a lot of time left, but tell me, from what you can tell in terms of the way the winds are blowing in Europe, is any kind of

access to that single market possible without actually being able to keep its movement of labor, free movement of labor?

PEEL: I can't at the moment see any movement from the 27 other member states, which would say you can have access like you have at the moment,

but you can close the doors to free movement and labor. I cannot see that happening. On the other hand, the degree of access, I'm not sure what it

will end up with, but I don't think it's going to look very good. Even those in Europe, like the Germans, who I think want to do a good deal, are

starting to express caution.

OK, the image of us suspended over a cliff waiting to see what happens, not so soothing, but unfortunately the reality. I thank you again. Quentin

Peel there from London, appreciate it.

So far Britain's economy hasn't faced the much predicted cooling off as we were saying, in fact, consumer confidence has bounced back and is now above

pre-referendum levels. And the services sector, which accounts for about 80 percent of the British economy, actually grew in July. On the negative

side though, business confidence is at a four-year low. A recent survey found that three quarters of British CEOs have considered moving their

headquarters out of the U.K. all together.

[16:20:00] Now, I spoke to Tim Martin, though a chairman of Wetherspoons, a pub chain in the UK and Ireland, and he is a leading voice among the Leave

Campaign. And he told me the doomsday economic fears just haven't been realized.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TIM MARTIN, CHAIRMAN, WETHERSPOONS: I think it was a massive amount of hyperbole, but essence of the lie was the mere fact the vote for Brexit

would result in economic calamity, with house prices going down. Interest rates going up, unemployment immediately going up, and huge problems in

every sector, that's proven to be wrong.

The strange thing, for anyone who's interested, is that 95 percent of economists, according to their own reckoning, agreed with that. The IMF

supported it. The governor of the Bank of England, it was very strange they should make such wrong judgment.

NEWTON: As such a successful businessman in Britain, there is so much riding on Brexit, aren't you afraid that the other shoe is yet to drop on

this though?

MARTIN: No, it won't. I think what people can't seem to do who criticized Brexit, who are worried about it, is look around the world as to what

creating economic success. And its democracy. Look at North America, which has had democracy enshrined in its constitution. Versus South

America, which has had a lot of problems. Look at Japan before it became a democracy and afterwards, or East Germany versus West.

So it's democracy that does it. And the great problem with Europe, which people can't seem to see through, is that is becoming more and more

undemocratic. It's caused massive economic problems already in Greece and Portugal. Countries have lost control of their budgets and their interest

rates, the key Democratic controls. There sleepwalking into an autocratic situation.

NEWTON: OK, but it's done now, Mr. Martin. It is Brexit. We talk about hard and soft, what do you want to see? What you think is best for

Britain?

MARTIN: I think that people are over worried about the trade agreement with the EU following Brexit. And it's not within the power of the U.K. to

get a deal with the EU if they want to be difficult over it. But we haven't got a trade agreement with the United States. We trade very

successfully here. One of our biggest export markets. Your one of the few countries we've got a surplus with. And America trades very successfully

with Britain as well. All the big American companies are trading over there. You don't need a trade agreement with the EU. People are too

fixated on that. I think free trade would be great. But if the EU governments don't want it, not a problem for us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Now much of what Martin told me there in terms of the impact on his pubs, there's no sign of Brexit uncertainty actually hurting London's

restaurant scene either. In fact, it's booming. Openings are 50 percent higher than last year. Nina dos Santos went to a Michelin star restaurant

where success is still on the menu.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NINA DOS SANTOS, CNNMONEY EUROPE EDITOR (voice-over): The Pied a Terre is across London's West End. Brexit hasn't brought the sour aftertaste some

were expecting. And they've been cautious with their cash up until the summer vote. They're now feeling profligate once more. And for

restaurants in the capital, business post Brexit is booming.

DAVID MOORE, FOUNDING DIRECTOR, PIED A TERRE: We find that up until the Brexit our slowest six weeks in the past two years. It was absolutely

dead. And then bingo, back like nothing had happened. The uncertainty deterred people. The unknown of what was going to happen. But now that

we've actually got Brexit, and were talking about what does that mean, it's not deterring everybody. Everybody's back on the expense accounts and

businesses back to usual.

DOS SANTOS: Restaurants seem to be feeling reassured as well. With 50 percent more of them openings this August versus last year.

MOORE: Since Brexit, I've actually sold a business that I was offered quite a lot of money for. And I thought let's take that. And we have

plans to open a new concept, which would be coming to the West End in the next three to five months.

DOS SANTOS: And it's not just the diners who are putting their money where their mouth is.

KALLUM PICKERING, SENIOR UK ECONOMIST, BERENBERG: It's been better than most people expected. I think it is fair to say the economy has slowed

down. There's no doubt about that. But we've certainly not entered into a recession.

DOS SANTOS: With Brexit negotiations not even started, there's no sugar coating some of the risks the sector faces further down the line.

KALLUM: The long time implications of Brexit are mainly supply side issues. If we reduce migration, slower population growth, leads to weaker

growth, less trade, less investment from abroad.

DOS SANTOS: In the near term the rising crossed prodigies from abroad could also see patron swallowing steeper prices.

[16:25:00] But for the moment, consumers and companies are finding that they can have their cake and eat it too. Nina dos Santos, CNNMoney,

London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: The head of Aston Martin remained neutral ahead of the referendum in June. Speaking with QUEST MEANS BUSINESS at the time, he warned that

growth was likely to suffer, especially in the short term.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDY PALMER, CEO, ASTON MARTIN: Generally speaking, there will be instability. Now the question is -- and this is the personal question,

which I think you can't impose on anybody -- if you accept there is going to be some negatives on your industry and you accept there's going to be

instability in the market, and it could cause up difficulties in the short term, are you prepared to trade that for sovereignty and immigration rights

and et cetera, et cetera. And corporately I can't answer that for people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: Andy Palmer, CEO of Aston Martin, joins me now live from London. A hundred days out, when you listen to yourself, and again you remained

quite neutral on Brexit, where are we now?

PALMER: Well, you're right. As Aston Martin, we took a slightly different view of the rest of the industry. Probably because we're an independent

British company, so we don't have the pressures, perhaps that other manufacturers have. That neutral view was because, you know, my own staff,

72 percent of them were saying that they were supporting the leave campaign. So it would have been extraordinary arrogant for me to have

imposed a different will.

I'd anticipated a pre-Brexit, that there would be a weakening of the pound, and indeed there was. I also had anticipated there would be a short-term

effect on volume in both the U.K. and in Europe. And in that context, we made a contingency plan to use the benefit from the weak pound to improve

volumes in the United States. As it happens, hundred days on, we have seen a weakening of the pound. We have improved our position in the United

States, but we have not seen a weakening of volume in the U.K. and in Europe. And in consequence with that, we're enjoying better profitability.

So far so good.

NEWTON: So Brexit hasn't been biting yet. What do you see in terms of what's coming up on the horizon? Especially as it relates to uncertainty.

Because let's face it, like I said, we're still no further in understanding what Brexit is going to actually mean for business.

PALMER: Exactly, look we live in a very heavy capital industry. If you're developing a new car, perhaps it's an investment of maybe a billion

dollars. What the industry in general craves is stability and a stable outlook. And obviously whilst we're in the negotiations phase, no one can

say what that brings. And you start to get lots of speculation about will tariff barriers exist or not? What will be the long-term 4X effect? And

that speculation tends to cause hesitation in terms of investment. And that's not what U.K. needs and it's not what industry needs. We can

speculate all day about where things will go, but the sooner we have clarity, obviously, the better.

NEWTON: In terms of actually wondering the kind of deal that Britain is going to see from this, -- you know, Alex Hammond, who were going to speak

to in a few minutes, said that, you know, it looks like this is going to be the full English Brexit. If it is the full English Brexit, as there's no

turning back, would you prefer those eggs soft or hard? I mean at this point in time, I hate to take this analogy, but it was a pretty good one.

I mean at the end of the day people are saying, look, the hard Brexit doesn't help anyone and yet others are saying, that's not what we voted

for. We didn't vote for something that looks like something we already have.

PALMER: Indeed, and I guess, I'm not going to become a politician, because I'm not a politician, I just make cars. And we'll adapt to whatever the

scenario is. I think it's very clear from the Mrs. May government that Brexit means Brexit. The way that I interpret that is that we will be out

of the single unit. That's my interpretation. Then it's into a discussion about what tariff barriers exist. For me, if you think about the fact of

the cars made in Europe for European consumption, 20 percent of those cars come to the United Kingdom in one way or another.

[16:30:00] I cannot believe that in the context of sensible people sitting around the table that we will get anything other than zero tariffs.

Because anything other than zero tariffs not only hurts the U.K. manufacturers, but it significantly hurts the German, the French, and

Italian makers. And I've got to believe that they will be campaigning with their governments to ensure in both directions that there are zero tariffs.

So that is my belief. Of course if there are tariffs, one hopes a that weaker pound will allow us to offset that, and of course, the perfect

scenario for me, as a U.K. manufacture, is that we maintain a weaker pound. We don't have any tariffs and that we enjoy greater profitability.

NEWTON: Yes, that sounds pretty much like utopia at this point in time, Mr. Palmer. Will wait and see. We always appreciate your frankness, both

with your viewers, and also of course with your workers, and with your investors. And will continue to check in with you as brags it becomes a

reality. Appreciate it sir, thank you.

PALMER: Thank you.

NEWTON: He spent years working for Wells Fargo before its fake account scandal came to light. Now, one former employee says it's time for bosses

to pay. You'll hear his story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NEWTON: I'm Paula Newton and there is more of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment. When a Wells Fargo employees fights back against his employer.

He'll join me in just a few minutes. And the man behind the Scottish independence referendum explains why he thinks Theresa May won't be able to

keep Scotland in the U.K.

But first the headlines this hour.

Dozens of world leaders including U.S. President Barack Obama have paid their respects at the funeral of former Israeli leader, Shimon Peres. He

died Wednesday at the age of 93. Peres served as both Israel's president and prime minister and won a Nobel Peace Prize for helping to negotiate the

Oslo Peace Accords.

Deutsche bank shares rallied as the company's chief executive John Cryan, said fears about his future was overblown. Cryan said the bank's balance

sheets were the healthiest in decades, despite the threat of a multibillion fine from the U.S. Justice Department. Deutsche bank shares closed just

over 6 percent higher in Frankfurt.

It's less than 40 days to the U.S. election, and things are getting nasty. Donald Trump launched a late night flurry of tweets against Alisha Machado,

the beauty queen that Hillary Clinton had accused Trump of calling, "Miss Piggy." Hillary Clinton, herself, responded calling Trump unhinged.

[16:35:00] NEWTON: A former Wells Fargo worker says he is so disgusted with the bank's fake account scandal he wants customers to close their

accounts. Kevin Pham says he was pressured to target vulnerable customers like the elderly or non-native English speaking customers. He decided to

take his concerns to a manager, that was in 2010. It wasn't until last week, and Elizabeth Warren scathing criticism, that he decided to take

action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIZABETH WARREN, U.S. SENATE DEMOCRAT: You haven't returned a single nickel of your personal earnings. You have not fired a single senior

executive. Instead, evidently your definition of accountable is to push the blame to your low level employees who don't have the money for a fancy

PR firm to defend themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: Pham has now set up a Facebook account to a shared post 50,000 times. Meanwhile, the bank says it's have taken steps to move past the

scandal. You'll hear now from John Stumpf the CEO.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN STUMPF, CEO, WELLS FARGO: I'm sorry that we didn't get this right. I take this very seriously. I'm not in denial, and we will get this right,

we will fix this. We do a lot of things really great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: Kevin Pham joins me now from San Francisco. Kevin, what can you tell us about what it was like to work at the bank and the kind of pressure

you went through.

KEVIN PHAM, FORMER WELLS FARGO EMPLOYEE: It was basically a boiler room. The only difference was that we weren't paid a lot of money, we were just

trying to keep our jobs. Basically they pressured us to open 10 accounts every single day. Twenty accounts every single day in the month of

January. And had conference calls around three times a day to update numbers.

And basically that created a pressure cooker environment in which vulnerable low-paid employees often without college diplomas, high school

grads, were forced to target the most vulnerable unwitting customers to open accounts that they did not want, that would confuse them. Charge the

fees, charge them overdrafts, and put them in a negative, sometimes get them charged off and ruin their credit.

NEWTON: And you're saying you had to do this to keep your job and you weren't making a lot of money at your job at the time about $12 an hour?

PHAM: Yes, as a teller I was making $12 an hour. When I got promoted to a CSSR or banker I was making about $14.50. I didn't have a college

education, so I saw it as an opportunity to work my way up and get a professional job as an assistant manager or business banker or branch

manager. I wasn't getting paid a lot, I was working paycheck to paycheck, and if you didn't hit your numbers, you would get reprimanded and you would

risk losing your job. Bonuses were tiny. Tellers, maybe a couple hundred bucks a quarter. Bankers, a couple of thousand. The main incentive was to

be able to get a promotion to an assistant manager or business banker or branch manager without having college education.

NEWTON: And you said the point here is that you want something to happen now to Wells Fargo. You're encouraging people to close their Wells Fargo

account. And we should say, you have a short position in the stock, which means every time the stock goes down you make a little bit of money. We

have to point that out. And yet you really want people to do this. You want them to close the accounts.

PHAM: Actually, it's not me that wants to do this. I'm a reluctant leader now. I just did the posting, and it spread like wild fire, 50,000 shares

immediately on Facebook. The Facebook account has 200 friends, so about ten million people have seen it. I asked my followers what they want to do

and they say they want to go forward with a national close your Wells Fargo account day, and I'm just capitalizing on those fundamentals.

NEWTON: You had a lot of response?

PHAM: Yes, so I've had 50,000 shares in less than around ten days. And I'm basically been having thousands of Facebook connections and new

friends. And basically we're going national. Forbes just broke the story, and right now millions of your viewers on CNN are seeing it, and as we

speak the Facebook event has thousands of people joining it.

NEWTON: OK, we will continue to see what happens with that. Kevin Pham, thank you for joining us, appreciate it.

PHAM: Thank you.

NEWTON: Wells Fargo has denied the top executives were aware of any wrongdoing and that it's taking steps to end sales goals. In a statement

to QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, the bank said, "We have made fundamental changes to help ensure team members are not being pressured to sell products,

customers are receiving the right solutions for their financial needs, our customer-focused culture is upheld at all times and that customer

satisfaction is high.".

If the Brexit revealed anything, it is that the European Union has become, unfortunately, deeply divided. Former Scottish First Minister, Alex

Hammond, Theresa May lacks the flexibility and imagination to keep Scotland from voting out of Great Britain.

[16:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER (voice-over): These are the faces of India's future. Every morning, the big bold block letter facade of the Newtown school,

beckons students to start their day. Architect, Abin Chaudhuri, sees this design as a way to set a precedent for the rest of India's future.

ABIN CHAUDHURI, FOUNDER, ABIN DESIGN STUDIO: India has a very rapid, of relations, happening. And the quality of architecture is limited. Good

architecture can transform a life. Transform human livable conditions. And that makes art a step ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Since 2005, Chaudhuri and his team have been injected new life into India. Helping cities like Kolkata find its

contemporary voice beyond his colonial roots. So the approach, when it came to designing this school, was to create a building that was instantly

recognizable. Now affectionately known around the city as the ABCD school, the exterior you know, is just a preview of the innovation that lies

inside.

SUNIL AGARWALSEN, FOUNDER DIR., THE NEWTOWN SCHOOL KOLKATA: It will be a challenge. And India is to ensure that kids come to the school and enjoy

coming to the school. We thought that we could have a curriculum in which the learning is hands-on. Will meet our challenges by improving upon the

technology part of it. We are we are a ready focus on user technology in the school. And that we are doing really previously.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The school only one-year-old was built here, right out outside of Kolkata, in one of India's new smart cities, the aptly names

"Newtown."

DEBASHIS SEN, URBAN DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT GOVERNMENT OF WEST BENGAL: It is not a 300-year-old city. It is a smart city in the making. A bit of

greens, a bit of smartness, a bit of IT, and plenty of everything for everything.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The plan is for nearly 100 of these smart cities to be developed all over India acting as a test case for the future. Features

like increase connectivity with a 10.5 km Wi-Fi zone. Smart LED streetlights and a 480-acre green eco-Park, aim to turn Newtown into a

desirable destination for India's top talent.

We are not a very rich country. We are a poor country. But willing to understand how the minimal use of nutrients, how the minimal use of

technology we bring the best quality of spaces. If Newtown cannot be envisaged as a singular point. We truly respect the grand sort of legacies

like Calcutta's legacies. You cannot avoid the culture. It's a part of people.

[16:45:00] We cannot avoid how people live in here. And at the same time encompassed in that, demand the future. And we need all this opportunity.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It's an opportunity and a future. You can see these students are ready for.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: The former first minister of Scotland says that within the next two years his country will vote for independence from the United Kingdom.

Now while England and Wales chose to leave the EU, 99 days ago, Scotland and Northern Ireland voted overwhelmingly to stay.

The divide is an economic one, Scotland wants to maintain trade access to Europe's single market. Alex Salmond told me he doesn't believe Prime

Minister Teresa May has the will to accommodate his country.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX SALMOND, FORMER FIRST MINISTER, SCOTLAND: Everything I see about Teresa May is not that she has either the imagination, or flexibility, or

the stateswoman-ship in order to take up such an offer. I think she is far more likely to withdraw into this Tory shell of Brexit means Brexit.

If that means hard Brexit, then so be it, and regardless of economic damage. I mean the sole obsession that the U.K. prime minister has seems

to be to keep out the nasty foreigners who are pinching all the English jobs as she would see it.

NEWTON: She has a democratic mandate to negotiate Brexit right now and she is trying to do it in the best interests of everyone in Britain. That's

what she says.

SALMOND: I'm sorry I missed when Teresa May had a mandate to do anything. She became prime minister because there was no other candidate available in

the Conservative Party because the previous prime minister became in a referendum she never caused. You forget me, I represent people in Scotland

who voted overwhelmingly to say within the European context.

England voted very marginally to come out of it. Teresa May has no democratic mandate that I know from anyone to do anything. That is

probably why she is doing nothing over the last 100 days.

NEWTON: Why can't Scotland continue to have economic success within Britain, and a Britain that is not so tied to Europe? I know we have been

through this a million times, but once again now Brexit is the reality. Why more upheaval for Scotland?

SALMOND: The upheaval that Scotland faces is being separated from our largest market place. The 500 million or 600 million people across the

European Union. You will excuse if we would rather not have that separation or upheaval. We would like to have a continuity of the

relationship as Scotland has had for many hundreds of years, and insure the future prosperity of Scotland and the ingenuity of our people, and our

ability to see Scotland as European nation.

The problem that England has with this, and the problem that Teresa May has with this, they don't want immigrants and foreigners, rather like a certain

politician, you have an American at the present moment, and his anti- Mexican rants. They don't like the idea of other people coming into the marketplace and workplaces, but people in Scotland and indeed people in

America given the tradition of your great country understand and know that immigration is actually a good thing for a country. It helps a country

progress and move forward. The fact that England is turning its back on its own history and itself should not drag Scotland along with it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Well, nothing is as certain as death and taxes but in the election, the U.S. election, it should maybe be e-mail and taxes. Because

where one is mentioned, the other one is sure to follow. After the break, we try to get to the bottom of taxes and Clinton's e-mails. First, a

highlight from make, create, innovate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:49] NEWTON: Between late night tweets, Jennifer Flowers, a former Miss Universe, and throw in Mark Cuban, why not, there have been a tons of

distractions during this election cycle. But each candidate has at least one topic that they absolutely cannot escape, no matter how hard they try.

For Hillary Clinton, she cannot escape e-mails, and for Donald Trump, taxes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will release my tax returns against my lawyer's wishes when she releases her 33,000 e-mails

that have been deleted. As soon as she releases them, I will release my tax returns, and that is against -- my lawyer's they say don't do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: David Cay Johnston is an investigative journalist and author who specializes in economics and tax issues. In 2001 he won the Pulitzer Prize

for exposing loopholes and inequalities in the U.S. tax code. And he is the author of "The Making of Donald Trump."

So we thought who better to help explain if it's possible how Trump really hasn't paid federal taxes in at least a few years.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR: He probably has not paid income taxes since 1977, the last year we know for a fact we know

he paid taxes. There are two reasons for this. One is there are special rules congress has for full-time real estate owners. A fraction of one

percent of Americans qualifies.

They can live tax free because of special tax rules. But secondly, there are strong indications in Trump's personal tax return for 1984 and from a

lawsuit from over 2009 that Trump is engaged in income tax fraud. His own tax attorney disowned the tax return that had his signature on it, and said

that's my signature, and we know that Donald Trump engaged in sales tax fraud.

So the combination of two things. Rules that allow Trump as a big real estate owner to not pay taxes and clear indications he has done things that

are improper.

NEWTON: Let's leave impropriety to the side for a second only because that would be in the realm of a prosecutor having to bring charges, that hasn't

happened. If we just deal with him playing within the rules, I mean one of the links that you made was that fact that look he has not made any

charitable donations. And we can all relate to this, he hasn't made charitable donations because he doesn't need the deduction.

JOHNSTON: That's right if you're not paying federal income taxes, and you make a charitable gift, you are paying 100 cents on the dollar for the

gift. So what Trump does he gets suppliers, the guy who makes his neckties in China, a company that does sporting events for him to make contributions

to his foundation.

He then has used his foundation's money, illegally and improperly to pay of legal obligations of his own, to buy two paintings of himself, and to make

a political contribution. All of which are illegal and raise further questions about Trump's violation of tax laws.

NEWTON: You know that one of the things that Donald Trump champions is tax reform. On that the two of you agree, what concerns would you have about

him being the man to put in any kind of tax reform in this country?

JOHNSTON: Trump's tax plan as measured by a very conservative anti-tax group called the Tax Foundation would result in a tremendous increase in

the deficit in America. We would add to the federal budget debt, the federal government's debt about $10 trillion. And then the Tax Foundation

says actually the plan is kind of sketchy, it might be a lot more than that,

Hillary Clinton's would add a tiny sum, about 1/50th as much. So that would be my concern number one, secondly his tax plan heavily favors very

wealthy people. And included in his plan is the idea that if you're rich enough to have two or three nannies, and you fly your children around from

mansion to mansion, first class. He would make all of that tax deductible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: I understand why the taxes might be a controversial point, but of course

we can't talk about his taxes without discussing Hillary Clinton's emails. Joining me now from Washington is CNN's justice correspondent Pamela Brown.

I mean even this week on the hill, dramatic testimony from the FBI director talking about this. This is still ongoing this saga over the emails.

[16:55:00] PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: No doubt about it, this continues to cast a dark shadow over the Clinton campaign regardless

of the fact that the FBI has closed its investigation. As you pointed out James Comey, the director of the FBI testified on Capitol Hill defending

the investigation against some congressman who were accusing him and the FBI of favoring Hillary Clinton. Because as we know she was not charged in

this.

And he said you can say we're wrong, do not call us weasels. And he also talked about the fact that the Department of Justice granted immunity to

some of the people that were interviewed including Cheryl Mills, Hillary Clinton's attorney, who was there with her during the interview. But more

troubling for the Clinton campaign is the fact that there will still be e- mails released up until the day of the election.

There will just be a drip, drip, drip of e-mails, e-mails that were recovered from the servers for part of the FBI investigation, and we expect

four different releases leading up to election day. Thousands of pages of e-mails. While the FBI didn't find any wrong doing, in order to prosecute

Hillary Clinton, there is still an issue because these emails will be released.

And every time this issue will come up and you can bet the Trump campaign will seize on it and say that this just shows that Hillary Clinton in their

view is not trustworthy, that she is not honest, she is not transparent. So it is politically a problem.

NEWTON: Politically a problem, and do you expect any bomb shells of this information? They say some of it will be duplicates.

BROWN: They said a lot of these e-mails being released will be duplicates. I don't personally anticipate any bomb shells because of if there was

anything big, the FBI probably would not have closed the investigation. So the FBI has been pretty transparent in terms of responding to the Freedom

of Information Act request.

We saw the notes from the interviews, we've seen several of the e-mails. At this point we're not expecting any big bomb shells, but at the same

time, it's a reminder every time the e-mails are released there was these deleted e-mails, 30,000, and people are just constantly reminded. And the

Trump campaign will seize on it.

NEWTON: Like you said reminded that perhaps she was doing something that only applied to her or that she was operating somehow outside of the rules.

Pam Brown, thank you for the update for us.

BROWN: Thank you.

NEWTON: And that's it for QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Have a great weekend and the news continues right here on CNN.

END