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Post Debate Poll: Clinton 43 Percent, Trump 40 Percent; Trump Made Cameo in Playboy Video in 2000; Leaked Audio Purportedly of Clinton Talking About Millenials; Clinton Raised $154 Million for Campaigh, Undecided Ohio Voter: Women's Issues are Crucial; Trump Deposition Regarding Mexico Comments Effect on Business to Be Released; Elon Musk Articulates Mars Colony Goal; Wells Fargo Scandal Latest. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 01, 2016 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00] POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: I'm Poppy Harlow and you're just 38 days now, 38 days, can you believe it another presidential election? And Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are trading barbs on Twitter and on the trail. This as a brand new post-debate poll shows the candidates, well, neck and neck. Clinton with 43 percent, Donald Trump trailing her slightly at 40 percent.

Also this weekend the Clinton campaign is jumping on just surfaced video showing Donald Trump in a video produced by Playboy, pouring champagne over a Playboy logo on a limousine. Wow. Just a few days ago Trump went after a former miss universe bringing up a, quote, "sex tape". Clinton for her part, her spokesman says the "Playboy" video paints Trump as a hypocrite.

And the agency in charge of the first presidential debate says Donald Trump has a legitimate gripe when he complained that something was wrong with his microphone, at last Monday's debate. The commission on presidential debates now says that there were audio issues with Trump's audio but that only affected the sound in the hall, not what you saw on television. Last night, Trump told an interviewer with "The New York Times," he blames that microphone issue for taking up half of his thought process.

With just weeks to go before the election let's talk about it all with CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein. CNN political commentator Lanhee Chen. Basil Smikle is with me, a Clinton supporter and executive director of the New York Democratic Party. And republican commentator and Donald Trump supporter, Paris Dennard. Thank you guys for being here.

Ron Brownstein, Ron, let's begin -- let's begin with "The New York Times" because quite a few bombshells dropped by Trump in this "New York Times" article out this morning. The main one is that he said, look, I'm going to bring up Bill Clinton's extramarital affairs in his past because I think that it is going to push people away from supporting Hillary Clinton. I think the issue with that is, is he discounting those that are very sympathetic to her for what she went through? I mean, her approval ratings was the highest ever when she was the first lady going through the Lewinsky scandal. RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think there's a more fundamental problem. And as I said before, I think it is a misreading of his situation for Donald Trump to believe that the way forward is primarily by adding more doubts about Hillary Clinton. The public has lots of doubts about Hillary Clinton but the North Star in this race has been consistently somewhere around 60 percent of Americans have said that they do not believe he's qualified.

Roughly 60 percent have said that they believe he does not have the temperament to be president and roughly 60 percent have said that he is bias against women and minorities, and all of those perceptions, you know, came out, re-enforced by the performance in the debate and then this extraordinary week of kind of back and forth with the former miss U.S.A. -- miss universe winner. And so I think, you know, the real challenge for Donald Trump is to reverse some of the doubts that he's facing about his own personal qualities.

He does best when he is seen as an agent of change at a moment when people are looking for change but the fact is that he is having trouble getting much above 40 percent in both national and key state polls and roughly 60 percent of the country essentially are saying they don't think he's qualified. It kind of adds up. And I think that the real math that he has got to face. Much more than adding any more dents to her fender.

HARLOW: Lanhee, you helped run Mitt Romney's campaign. So what's your sort of political expertise perspective on this one? Because on Thursday Trump was asked whether he was concerned that launching a tax against Bill Clinton to get to Hillary Clinton could backfire on him. Here's what he said.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think maybe your past marital history is also fair game?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I guess. I mean, they can do but lot different than his, that I can tell you. I mean, we have a situation where we have a president who was a disaster and he was ultimately impeached over it in a sense for lying. And so we'll see whether or not we discuss it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not worried about your past history at all?

TRUMP: No, not at all. No, I have a very good history.

HARLOW: Here's the thing, Lanhee. He's been married three times. And, you know, the affair he had with his first wife before he married Marla Maples was widely reported. Should he open this can of worms?

LANHEE CHEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I wouldn't go there, Poppy. I think that if you look at when Trump has been strongest, for example in that first debate, it was with that message about trade, talking about all the people that have been left behind by the economics of really the last eight years. I think that is the strongest argument he needs to be making. I -- if I were advising him, I would shy away from the personal attacks. In part because he's vulnerable but more important -- HARLOW: But his team is telling him exactly what you're saying. His

team is saying don't do that and he's doing it anyways.

CHEN: Well, right. And so some of this does come down to the candidate executing if that's where he wants to go. He is the candidate, ultimately that's the thing. Political operatives and advisers can advise candidates or give them their best insights. But at the end of the day, it is about the candidate executing on his strategy.

HARLOW: Paris, I want you to listen to what was said on CNN earlier today and this is a former reporter speaking with CNN Michael Smerconish about a phone exchange he had with Donald Trump decades ago back in the 80s about a story she wrote about his Atlantic City casinos. He didn't like it. He called her up. Before we play this, warning to all the parents in the room, this clip does include profanity.

[16:05:08] JENNIFER LIN, FORMER PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER REPORTER: I got a phone call. The woman said, hold for Mr. Trump and then Mr. Trump began to yell at me. He told me I had shit for brains. He told me I worked for a shitty newspaper and he said, what sort of shit was I writing? I was stunned. He hung up. He called my boss in Philadelphia and he treated my boss to the same sort of rant. But then he added that he referred to me as the "c" word, a word I will not use, Michael, because in my opinion it's the worst word in the English language to refer to a woman.

But he complained to my boss. He called me the "c" word and my boss said if there was any problem with the story, we would run a correction. So what was wrong with the story, Mr. Trump and Mr. Trump said he had not read the story, he only read the headline. So my boss told him to call back if there were any problems and he never called back.

HARLOW: All right. So, Paris, this is the thing. A brand new Fox News poll just came out, post-debate and it shows Trump trailing women by 20 points. And that's not just democratic women, that's women likely voters across the board. With comments like that, stories like that, why should women think differently about him?

PARIS DENNARD, REPUBLICAN COMMENTATOR: You know, what I think is unfortunate that we are -- this reporter for whatever reason is bringing up something and has a crystal clear memory of something that happened 30 years ago. Lord knows I can't remember things that happened 30 minutes ago what I said on this program and hopefully it was smarter --

HARLOW: But wouldn't you remember something like -- wouldn't you remember something like that?

DENNARD: I think there's -- just ask why she could -- comes out now at this moment and remembers verbatim exactly what was said. But I think that -- but I --

HARLOW: So Michael Smerconish -- in your question. Michael Smerconish then asked her, subsequently, why you bring this up now? And she says, because I watched the debate and I'm very concerned because I'm concerned about the comments he's made about women. That's the context.

DENNARD: Yes, I mean, it's political at the end of the day. But to your point about reaching out to women, look, Mr. Trump has a record of empowering women in his corporation at Trump Tower. He is a married man. He has wonderful family. He has -- he has daughters. They all look up to him. They respect him. I think we should look at the character of the man and how he has raised his children and how he is with his wife.

HARLOW: Why does that not -- let me just -- I hear you. I hear you and I don't think anyone would question the character of his children. What I'm saying is, why does this not speak to character as well and why should voters not consider things like this?

DENNAR: Well, I think at the same time, we only want to focus on the negative about Mr. Trump and we fail to focus on the negatives about Secretary Clinton. And when you do focus on the negatives about Secretary Clinton --

HARLOW: I don't think that's the case. I mean, I don't think that's the case at all.

DENNAR: And bring up her judgment or her character, it's somehow something different as related to how she dealt with women and the attacks that she gave to those women who accused President Clinton of things.

HARLOW: I do think that Paris brings up an interesting point because what he's talking about are the things, correct me if I'm wrong, Paris, but that Secretary Clinton said, years ago, in the '90s, say about Gennifer Flowers, right? When she found out about that affair, she said, I would "crucify her in cross-examination." What she said in private exchanges with her friend about Monica Lewinsky calling her a loony toon not in the public. But that's what Paris is talking about.

BASIL SMIKLE, POLITICAL CONSULTANT: Yes. No, I understand that point. And look, it was -- it was Hillary Clinton in a difficult time for herself, her family, and her marriage. And I don't -- you know, look, if you take that off the table for a second, just for a second, and isolate it as that one incident at that time in a very delicate situation, it does not at all compare to the litany of comments that Donald Trump has made about women.

I recommend folks to look at the ad that -- where Donald Trump's own words are being used against him as young people, millennials or young women are looking at it and listening to it and say, wow, this is the man that is trying to lead our nation. And in my mind, Donald Trump doesn't want to govern, he just wants to win and he will do that at all costs.

HARLOW: I have to leave it there, Ron.

SMIKLE: That's what's challenging for this campaign.

HARLOW: I wish I had more time. Ron, Lahnee, Paris, Basil, thank you all.

Coming up, Hillary Clinton makes a hard sell to millennial voters who once supported Bernie Sanders in droves. Well, a newly leaked audio tape (inaudible) up in his effort also. The video of Donald Trump that has his campaign -- that his campaign fought to keep private. Well, it's not. We'll show it to you.

And the battle for Ohio, it is one of the biggest prizes for Election Day so what did undecided voters think after the first debate? We'll talk to one of them. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:12:50] HARLOW: All right. This just in. The Hillary Clinton campaign is responding to audio released by the Washington Free Beacon, that's a conservative website and they say this is Hillary Clinton speaking to supporters at a private fundraiser back in February. They say they obtained the recording from hackers who breached the e-mail account of a campaign staffer.

In the audio clip hereby to hear, Clinton is addressing the cynicism that the millennials feel towards the government. It's important to note this was recorded back in February when she was still competing against Senator Bernie Sanders for those young voters in the primary.

HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Some are new to politics completely. They're children to the great recession and they are living in their parents' basement, they feel that they got their education and the jobs that are available to them are not at all what they envisioned for themselves. And they don't see much of a future.

I think we all should be really understanding of that and we should try to do the best we can not to be, you know, a wet blanket on idealism. You want to be idealistic. You want them to set big goals but to take what we can achieve now and try to present them as bigger goals.

HARLOW: CNN Politics producer Dan Merica joins me now. The Clinton campaign is just coming out and responding to this, right? What are they saying?

DAN MERICA, CNN POLITICS PRODUCER: That's exactly right, Poppy. So Glen Caplin, a Clinton spokesperson about this statement, he said, as Hillary Clinton said in those remarks, she wants young people to be idealistic and set big goals. She's fighting for exactly what the millennial generation cares about, a fair and more equal just world.

You know, the reality is that Clinton has said some of these things that she said on that -- on that hacked audio before, especially during the primary with Bernie Sanders early on in interviews in February and January.

But, the Clinton campaign is also aware how in stories like this can catch on, especially online where a lot of millennials get their news and frankly decide who they're going to vote for. And young voters really towered the Obama campaign in '08 and '12 and have yet to do that for Secretary Clinton. And even some, you know, polls are showing that many are going to Gary Johnson and Jill Stein third-party candidates.

[16:15:06] So Clinton aides are concerned about this but they're, you know, they're noting that she has said things like this before and in that audio you hear she stresses the need for compassion, for understanding, you know, why -- how they're coming to politics now and how that's different than, you know, millennials or young generations, you know, earlier in the '90s and 2000s.

HARLOW: Also at the same time, as they're dealing with this or just, you know, a headache for them certainly. Eye-popping new fundraising numbers for her and or the DNC, right?

MERICA: You know, it's remarkable. President Obama in 2008 was said to have, you know, a remarkable fundraising operation, raised $150 million in September of 2008. Well, Hillary Clinton is now announcing her fundraising numbers. She raised $154 million for the campaign, the DNC, and for state parties across the country.

Now, this is noteworthy because Hillary Clinton spent most of august fundraising at, you know, top dollar fundraisers in the Hamptons and in California. She didn't do that as much this year -- this month so less fundraisers but they are raising more money than Obama did at the same time in 2008.

HARLOW: Wow. In 2008, the first time he ran, interesting. Dan, thank you. We appreciate it.

Coming up, the swing state of Ohio may be the toughest political battleground this election. Up next, I will speak with an undecided Ohio voter who had some tough words for both Trump and Clinton after that first debate on Monday. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:20:20] HARLOW: Ohio, it may be the ultimate battleground state this year as it is in so many years. Its residents have voted for the winner of the White House in every presidential race since the 19 -- well, the 1960. Both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are targeting Ohio's undecided voters and desperately trying to figure out what's on their mind.

I sat down some of them, some undecided women in Cleveland back in July right before the republican national convention. We spoke about what matters most to them in this presidential race. Here's what Ohio native Holly Jackson have to say.

HOLLY JACKSON, OHIO NATIVE: One of the big things for me is I want to see where women stand and the kind of decisions that are going to affect women. I mean, everyone is important. Everyone matters. But women, I think, and minorities, also, are just so separate from what is going on. The equal pay is really important, but to kind of go along with that, the one thing that would make it really important for me, and which way I was going to go is the uniting of people.

HARLOW: Back with me is Holly Jackson. We want to get her latest take on this wild presidential race. Thanks for being here.

JACKSON: My pleasure. How are you?

HARLOW: I'm good. Thank you. Nice to see you. You watched the first debate as did all of us and you were not impressed by Clinton or Trump. What did you want to hear from them that you didn't?

JACKSON: I think what I wanted to hear was more of a plan of action. And I think what we really heard was just a lot of mudslinging, a lot of, you know, back and forth tossing of, you know, real underhanded comments. It was kind of really a turnoff, I would say. Donald trump was actually, you know, more aggressive and more baiting than Hillary Clinton was. But it was not fun to watch back and forth that mudslinging go on.

HARLOW: You said of the first debate both candidates looks like idiots. And one of the things you told me when we sat down in July about Hillary Clinton is that, you know, some of the trustworthiness issues, e-mails, that bothers you. Has what she said subsequently assuaged your concerns about that at all or do you still wrestle with the same concerns when it comes to her?

JACKSON: Well, I think that, you know, one of the things that I have kind of maybe been a little more understanding of is everyone makes mistakes, and it seems like at some point now she has kind of owned it, you know? She's apologized a little bit for it. And you know, just really wants to move forward. And I think that maybe in retrospect that, you know, the fact that maybe she has owned it a little bit, maybe kind of gives her a little more credibility on some of the other things that she said.

HARLOW: That's interesting because, I wonder, since you still have not made up your mind and who you're going to vote for, if Donald Trump were to do the same, if he were to apologize for some of the things he said that have bothered you, would that put you a little bit more in his camp?

JACKSON: Honestly, I'm not sure that at this point any apology that he put out there I would feel that it was genuine, especially after watching the first debate. It seemed that he kind of talked in circles to me, which, you know, adds more confusion to the pot of questions, you know. You can't just keep passing off or going around the block with your answers because people aren't getting the answers, especially people that are not quite sure what to do.

HARLOW: So, final question. Have you decided? I mean, who are you going to vote for and is there a chance you could vote for the third- party candidate?

JACKSON: You know, I feel like I've really kept an open mind the entire time. As, you know, we spoke the last time on the panel, I was not a Donald Trump fan just because I feel like he was very degrading and disrespectful not only to minorities but to women. I was, you know, a little bit swayed from Hillary because of the e-mails and I felt, you know, that there was some transparency issues.

[16:25:07] As the additional people in the running, you know, I feel like they have some good intentions, but I'm not certain that they're actually fit to run the country. And you know, Donald Trump in his latest antics and continued disrespect, not only of our current president but of the potential office that he has, you know, potentially the ability to step in to, it really scares me.

He just is really extremely disrespectful. He doesn't seem to get it. He seems to circumvent every process. And you know, I think that obviously makes me lean more towards Hillary. I also feel that because she has kind of owned some of the things and mistakes that she's made that, you know, maybe she's trying really hard for people to see her in a different light and kind of get past that.

HARLOW: Sounds like maybe you're not -- you're not so undecided anymore.

JACKSON: Maybe, maybe not but I still want to see the things unfold. You know, we still have a couple debates. I still want to see their behaviors up into the point of election.

HARLOW: Right. Holly --

JACKSON: And, you know, I really want the best person in the office that's going to do well for our entire country. Not just the upper- class, the middle-class, lower-class.

HARLOW: Holly Jackson, I think you speak to what many voters are thinking right now. They want to hear more. Thank you very much for being with us.

JACKSON: Thank you.

HARLOW: Coming up, Donald Trump, the tape under oath, it's the definition, the campaign did not want released. Now it is.

TRUMP: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

TRUMP: I do.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:30:11]

POPPY HARLOW, HOST: It's a video Donald Trump's lawyers fought to keep private. Arguing against the release of a recorded deposition in which Trump describes some -- how some comments he made about Mexicans had a negative impact on his business. This is part of a lawsuit between Trump and two celebrity restaurant owners.

Our Sunlen Serfaty reports.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you raise your right hand.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Newly released video of Donald Trump testifying under oath.

TRUMP: Unbelievable.

SERFATY: The normally animated and bombastic GOP nominee taking a more serious and somber tone.

TRUMP: I believe my lawyer did --

SERFATY: This part of a deposition Trump made in June in his lawsuit against celebrity chef Jeffrey Zakairan. The restaurateur who backed out of opening a restaurant in Trump's new D.C. Hotel after Trump said this about illegal Mexican immigrants at his presidential announcement.

TRUMP: They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapist and some I assume are good people.

SERFATY: Trump says the controversial comment in his speech were planned.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you write the statement in advance? Was it written?

TRUMP: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did you plan in advance what you were going to say?

TRUMP: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Did you talk to other people about it?

TRUMP: No.

SERFATY: But it's that statement that Zakarian says caused him to reconsider his arrangement with Trump and backed out of the deal. Trump admits Zakarian's decision hurt his business.

TRUMP: I got a lot of bad publicity because of the way they handled it. They grandstanded.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, how has that harmed you?

TRUMP: Just a bad day of press, a bad few days of press. I think it -- you know, I don't know how I can quantify it but I think we were hurt by the way they, did it.

SERFATY: Still, Trump said his campaign's success justified what he said.

TRUMP: It's not like, you know, like I've said anything that could be so bad because if I said something that was so bad they wouldn't have had me go through all of these people and win all of these primary races.

SERFATY: Donald Trump's lawyers did not want this video released, arguing it could potentially be used politically like popping up in campaign ads, saying, "Videotapes are subject to abuse."

After CNN and other media outlets filed a motion for the judge to release the tapes, the D.C. Superior judge sided against team Trump, releasing the new footage despite opposition from the Trump campaign to keep the tapes under lock and key.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: And with under 40 days to go having it out there certainly serves as a reminder of one of the most controversial moments of his campaign. A moment that Trump campaign likely doesn't want to revisit to put that out there fresh in the minds of voters this close to election day.

Sunlen Serfaty, CNN, Washington.

HARLOW: Sunlen, thank you very much. Coming up, one of the biggest banks in the world under fire for a new scandal involving ripping off members of the military. This after another scandal in which they fired more than 5,000 employees for opening fake accounts to boost profit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your institution is making over $22 billion yearly. Who is paying for it? Who is taking responsibility for it? Don't come tell me you're sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:37:05]

HARLOW: Wells Fargo is facing incredible heat and swinging from crisis to crisis. First revelations that the bank opened tons of fake accounts with real people's information. And now the Justice Department says Wells Fargo illegally repossessed more than 400 cars from service members and then charged them for it. And now allegations that the bank retaliated against and even fired whistle blowers who called the company ethics line to report all of this. Unbelievable.

Here's CNN Money's Cristina Alesci.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Dennis Singleton was a soldier preparing to go to Afghanistan in 2013. That same year Wells Fargo had repossessed his car. It was against the law, but Wells Fargo did it anyway. And Singleton wasn't alone.

The Department of Justice has charged Wells Fargo with illegally repossessing 413 vehicles owned by members of the military. 413. As a result, Wells Fargo has been fined $24 million, but Singleton never got his car back, received no compensation and his credit was destroyed.

Wells Fargo told CNN Money that it reached out to Singleton but it hasn't heard back from him. It's just the latest scandal for a bank embroiled in controversy. There's also the up to 2 million unauthorized accounts, opened by Wells Fargo employees to meet unrealistic sales targets by management. Whistle blowers were even punished for calling the bank's ethics line.

KEVIN PHAM, FORMER WELLS FARGO EMPLOYEE: I always felt out of place and I always -- I tried my best to do the right thing. I'm not perfect and I eventually got to the point where my, you know, the mental stress that came from this, you know reduced my production to zero. I took it up to my district manager. Basically I was accused of making excuses for my poor performance and trying to, you know, throw my colleagues under the bus.

ALESCI: Can CEO, John Stump survived the fallout, many in congress say no.

VOICE OF SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: You should resign. You should give back the money that you took while this scam was going on and you should be criminally investigated by both the Department of Justice and the Securities and Exchange Commission.

REP. STEVE PEARCE, (R) NEW MEXIC: You have kind of shirked around and said the board can do anything it wants at any time. I, sir, think you ought to submit a resignation and your board cannot hold off action on that.

REP. DENNY HECK, (D) WASHINGTON: Frankly, I don't personally see how you survive. But the truth is, it's not your survival that I am concerned about.

ALESCI: What is concerning -- a megabank with a potentially corrupt culture, leaving victims in its wake. Wells Fargo is ditching the sales goals that led to the creation of the ghost accounts. As for Stump, he's still hanging on, despite growing opposition.

WARREN: It's gutless leadership.

ALESCI: Cristina Alesci, CNN Money, New York

[16:40:00]

HARLOW: Well, Wells Fargo just sent us this statement reading that they are, "Truly sorry." They also said "As part of our remediation process we attempted to contact Mr. Singleton but have not heard back from him. It is absolutely a priority of ours to reach him and we will continue our efforts to do so in order to make this right for him and his family."

Let's talk about more of this with Diane Brady, she's a Senior Editor of "Business Week." Where do we begin? Sort of pretty unbelievable that this is happening.

When you look at what congresswoman Maxine Waters is saying, for example, she's saying break up the banks. And the context of that is, if something is so big in enterprise that the man in charge, the CEO doesn't know this is happening, that all of these fake accounts are being opened, that whistle-blowers are being fired for calling the ethics line, then it is too big to manage and should not exist and we should break it up. What do you make of that line of argument?

DIANE BRADY, SENIOR EDITOR, BUSINESS WEEK: I don't think it's the right line of argument. There's no question that the banks have been too big for quite some time. But I think the bigger issue is really that they take on too much risk. Banking is supposed to be pretty boring and I think that a lot of these cases have been the incentives to make money because that's how people like John Stump get rewarded.

HARLOW: Yes, but this was one of those sort of more boring banks. That's the thing. I mean Wells said, when you're on your propped desk and doing your proprietary trading, we're just issuing mortgages and opening checking accounts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRADY: Well, what's interesting is I remember speaking to Stump a few years ago and he was lamenting the fact that customers, only a third of his customers for example were actually holding his credit card. So he was even aware back then that we really need to upsell these people. We need to get them to be having, more accounts. Why? Because it results in more fees and more money.

HARLOW: So, let's just take a step back and walk through exactly that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Up selling is not illegal and it's frankly something that a lot of banks do. They -- they're hoping you get a mortgage there, they want you to open a checking account. Right, it's upselling. How did they actually profit so much from that? Can you walk us through that?

BRADY: Well, I think what the irony is they didn't actually profit. The actual fees they got were a blip for a bank that makes billions her year. What happened was the individual salespeople are motivated to be opening more accounts because, like any other people in sales, they probably get a commission and a bonus.

HARLOW: Right.

BRADY: And it looks good when you're out there with customers opening more accounts.

HARLOW: But, in opening these fake accounts with real people's information that the people themselves didn't know existed, were they milking those people of their own money and the people didn't realize it?

BRADY: Very much so. And I think part of what's perplexing about this is they can't even quantify the fees. It's very hard for them to get their arms around it so that does, in fact, say, that this is a huge mega bank. But those individuals knew what they were doing.

HARLOW: One of the biggest complaints among consumers and the outrage on main street about the financial crisis and the aftermath is that none of the big name banker, none of the big name CEOs were criminally charged or tried or went to jail. Right. You had a few hedge fund guys.

One member of congress blasted some this week on the hill. You saw it. He said you're sitting on top of a "criminal enterprise." Do you think Stump faces criminal charges? Meaning, do they have enough to bring a criminal case against him?

BRADY: That's one of the issues. I think that -- no, I certainly don't dispute the idea that he's probably going to have to step down. I can't imagine how your career looks from here when you've been John Stump. But the reality is what has he done that's illegal? He said in his annual reports they were trying to essentially go out there and sell more to customers. And he said himself, he was not aware of this criminal activity. But unless he himself did the criminal activity it's hard to see on what grounds they would charge him.

HARLOW: Who would come in finally to save the reputation of this bank? You think back to Solomon and you think back to Warren Buffett stepping in and basically saying, you know, you lose a dollar, that's one thing. You lose a threat of reputation, that's another thing.

Who could step in and right the ship here, do you think, reputation wise? Because Buffett's the biggest, the biggest shareholder in Wells.

BRADY: Yes, exactly, so I wouldn't say Warren Buffett. I think one of the challenges here is that I can't think of anybody. And, I think if you look at the other banks, Citigroup, you know taxpayers took that over. JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, all the banks that we consider to be the largest, most prestigious banks in this country have undergone huge scandals. So Wells Fargo will get through this. I think it will be a messy period. Its stock price will take a hit...

HARLOW: ... It already his.

BRADY: ... it may lose customers. But you know the reality is that it will probably go back to largely business as usual.

HARLOW: Diane thank you. Thank you very much. We'll stay on top of this story. Much more ahead with congresswoman Maxine Waters in our 7:00 o'clock hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Switching gears here having a little fun. Mission to Mars. The founder of SpaceX unveiling his plan to try to start a colony on the red planet this week. We're talking about Elon Musk. He has grand ideas but is it possible?

Bill Nye the science guy and our Rachel Crane join me next to break it down live.

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[16:48:32]

HARLOW: Elon Musk wants you to live on Mars. Well, OK. Only if you really want to locate to the red planet and if you've got an extra 200 grand to spare.

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HARLOW: This week the SpaceX CEO unveiled his plan to transport everyday folks like me and you to live in a self-sustaining human colony. The first volunteers would face, of course, significant risk.

ELON MUSK, SPACEX CEO: I think the first journeys to Mars are going to be really very dangerous. The risk of fatality will be high. There's just no way around it. Are you prepared to die? Then that's OK, then, you know you're a candidate for going. But really this is less about like, you know, who goes there first or -- it's the thing that really matters is making a self-sustaining civilization on Mars as fast as possible.

HARLOW: A self-sustaining civilization on Mars as fast as possible. His plans to create an interplanetary transport system with a giant reusable rocket are at their initial stages. He aims to launch his first mission though, he says within two years. And his first civilian trip to Mars by 2025.

Musk says up to a million people could be living on Mars within 50 to 150 years. They would grow crops in contained buildings of compressed atmosphere.

[16:50:02]

HARLOW: Let's talk about it all with Bill Nye, the Science Guy and CEO of the Planetary Society. And our correspondent and space expert extraordinaire here in house, Rachel Crane. Thank you guys.

So, Elon Musk makes this big announcement presentation in Guadalajara, Mexico this week. You were there. Before I get to your skepticism, Rachel, talk to me about what famed retired astronaut Scott Kelly says about this. Is he optimistic?

RACHEL CRANE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, I had the opportunity to speak to Scott Kelly just before this announcement was made. And, there's probably nobody better to ask the question could our brains and bodies handle this. Because as we know he is the first American that has spent an entire year in space onboard the International Space Station. And he said that he thinks that our bodies and our brains can handle it. Take a listen.

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SCOTT KELLY, ASTRONAUT: Definitely our brains can handle it. Probably the biggest impediment of just going there is the cost. I mean, I think we can overcome the challenges if we can overcome the financial requirements.

CRANE: Do you think that Elon Musk setting up his own Mars architecture that that compromises the government's ambitions in any way, shape, or form?

KELLY: Not at all. And, you know, I would hope that NASA would even partner with him in some respects. You know, having competition in everything always helps, too, if we looked at it like, you know, someone's trying to get there first. That would be helpful, too.

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CRANE: And, Poppy, Scott Kelly went on to tell me that he actually would go to Mars if he had the opportunity but he wouldn't be doing one of those one-way missions there, that he would definitely want to be coming back.

HARLOW: OK. It sounds -- it is extraordinary. You are skeptical. And what you said --

BILL NYE, THE SCIENCE GUY: Well, skeptical but for good reason.

HARLOW: And you, said there's a business case. But you also said, although Elon Musk's presentation was compelling it is unrealistic.

NYE: Yes, I don't -- but he -- that's his style, you know to present these ideas. In two years we're going land on Mars. Yes, maybe. To have people going there in 2025, that's pretty difficult.

HARLOW: So, what are the biggest dangers?

NYE: Well, the biggest danger is ...

HARLOW: ... if you get there.

NYE: ... you can't breathe. You would notice that right away. And so, I ask everybody do you want to live in a dome the rest of your life? And very few people do. And the model I always present is do you want to live in Antarctica? People go to Antarctica. We keep a science base there, heck yes. But people don't go there to raise families and build swing sets and sliding boards. That's just not how you do it.

And everybody, we are on the verge, we are on the cusp, we are right there in our ability to look for signs of life on Mars. I'm not kidding, everyone. It would be an extraordinary thing if we found evidence of life on Mars. It would be absolutely world changing if you found something still alive there. It would be like Copernicus proving that the earth goes around the earth instead of the sun around the earth. I mean it would just be amazing.

And so, we don't really spend that much money on planetary exploration...

HARLOW: ... no, we should spend more on that.

NYE: Well, I mean it just -- and also you don't want to land there and fill it full of human microbes and you can't tell the old from the new. You don't want to be doing that.

HARLOW: So, Rachel obviously, SpaceX has had its challenges as has Virgin Galactic, as has any new space (inaudible) project. How confident are you that SpaceX, and I want you to debate this, could actually develop a rocket safe enough to carry humans to Mars.

CRANE: Well, look, SpaceX hasn't sent humans to space yet.

HARLOW: No.

CRANE: They are only doing cargo missions to the International Space Station but that will be change soon. They want a government contract with NASA to ferry astronauts to the International Space Station.

HARLOW: But, one of the rockets just exploded a few weeks ago.

CRANE: Right, of course. And, you know, it's unclear how much the timeline is going to shift as a result. They're still in the early stages of that investigation and you know SpaceX is very frustrated.

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CRANE: They don't know what caused that explosion. They think they're getting closer and closer to isolating what caused it but of course that's a big hurdle for them. But -- in terms ...

NYE: ... but, they're going to overcome that.

CRANE: Of course they will.

NYE: They're great at this stuff. They will figure that out.

HARLOW: So can they develop one safe enough to bring people to Mars?

NYE: Sure. I mean, that would be -- I just don't see why they couldn't. They, why this company couldn't.

CRANE: I think it's -- I think that certainly the architecture, they would be putting a lot of safety protocols into place to make sure that it was a safe as possible before they put human beings in those tin can or fiberglass cans or, you know, whatever materials the space ship and rocket will be made out of to go to Mars.

But, the real question is -- is how are their bodies would be able to handle it. Elon Musk, there are a lot of questions surrounding what habitat we would be living in and how our bodies would withstand the space radiation. And Elon Musk did not really answer that...

HARLOW: ... address that.

CRANE: ... Right.

HARLOW: Bill, I mean, Rachel has done a lot of reporting on how much the funding for these things has gone down. I mean, NASA used to get way more funding ...

NYE: ... oh but everybody ...

HARLOW: ... when we were trying to get a man on the moon and we were competing against Russia, et cetera. You don't have that ...

NYE: ... there was a cold war...

HARLOW: ...competition anymore. It's more collaboration between the United States, Russia, and China.

NYE: So, everybody, that was a cold war. You know, and I'm so old I lived through that. And I understand it. But the NASA budget used to be fully 4% of the federal budget. Now it's 0.4%.

[16:55:10]

NYE: And so just keep in mind that NASA is the best brand the United States has. Even people who don't like the United States respect what NASA does. And for those of you who haven't recently had your passport renewed, do you recognize that space?

CRANE: Oh, yes, I do.

NYE: Which one is it?

CRANE: Well, we've got Sputnik right there.

NYE: No, no, that's Pioneer.

CRANE: Oh, Pioneer, excuse me.

HARLOW: I don't even know what Pioneer is.

NYE: Anyway but it's on your U.S. passport and the Canadian Space Agency put Space Station on the back of their money because they appreciate how much it does for your society. When you have a bunch of people rocket engineers running around it just raises the level of -- of national pride and there's always talk about spinoffs. But it's expectations that are so cool. So what we want at the planetary society we did an analysis last year that you could get to Mars in 2033 without increasing the NASA budget as long as we all stuck to the deal to somehow lease or have NASA let go of maintaining the International Space Station.

So if you just increase the NASA budget a little bit and had international cooperation ...

HARLOW: ... we'd get there.

NYE: ... you'd get there in 2028.

HARLOW: All right. I'll let you guys go.

CRANE: I'll sign up.

NYE: No, no.

HARLOW: I'm scared of -- I'm scared of flying, I'm not going.

NYE: Well, you don't have to do that, but we're on the verge of making ..

CRANE: ... we're on the verge.

NYE: ... just amazing discoveries.

HARLOW: I have to leave it there guys. Thank you.

NYE: Thank you guys. Let's change the world.

HARLOW: Thank you for letting us ...

CRANE: ... Mars, here we come...

HARLOW: ... dream a little bit guys. I'll let you go and geek out as we go to commercial. Bill Nye, and Rachel Crane.

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HARLOW: Coming up, a new season and a new "Saturday Night Live" tonight, how will Alec Baldwin stack up against some of the greats?