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NYT: Trump May Not Have Paid Fed Taxes for 18 Years; Trump Doubts Hillary Clinton "Loyal to Bill"; Clinton in Hacked Audio Called Sanders' Ideas "Indefensible"; CIA Chief: U.S. Enemies Plotting to Test New President; "SNL" Puts Fun Spin on Trump-Clinton Debate; Libertarian Candidate Struggles in Quest for White House. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 02, 2016 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[18:00:02] HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Maybe he doesn't want the American people all of you watching tonight to know that he's paid nothing in federal taxes because the only years that anybody's ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license and they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That makes me smart.

REPORTER: It sounds like you admitted you hadn't paid federal taxes and that was smart. Is that what you meant to say?

TRUMP: No, I didn't say that at all. I mean, if they say I didn't, I mean, it doesn't matter. I will say this, I hate the way our government spends our taxes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: CNN cannot independently verify the authenticity of the documents that were mailed to "The Times". The Trump campaign is not denying that they are legitimate. Instead, Trump backers say the documents show how savvy he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: The reality is he's a genius. What he did was he took advantage of something that could save his enterprise and he did something we admire in America, he came back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Our Cristina Alesci has been pouring through "The New York Times" reporting and breaks it all down.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Here is what "The New York Times" is reporting: Trump declared a loss of $916 million in 1995. And that loss could be used to cancel taxable income for potentially up to 18 years, according to tax experts, the paper hired. Key details are still missing because "The New York Times" doesn't have Trump's complete tax returns, and CNN can't confirm the authenticity of the documents the paper does have.

But the report means even if Trump made $916 million in the years after 1995, he could potentially have paid little or no taxes on that income. How is that possible? It all comes down to something called net operating loss, according to "The Times". When a business has more tax deductible expenses than income, you end up with the IRS calls a net operating loss.

Now, people might be asking, if Trump could write off such large loss over so many years, why can't I do this? Most people are familiar with a different type of deduction, capital losses. Typically, these are tied to stocks, bonds and other investments. There are different rules for those and limits on how you can use them.

With Trump, we're most likely talking about a Trump from operating a business which according to the IRS is the most common reason for a net operating loss. If Trump had much of his wealth tied up in businesses, any losses in those businesses might flow directly to him so he could use them to reduce his own tax bill in future years. It's important to keep in mind that the tax code allows you to do this.

The Trump campaign responded, saying the candidate paid hundreds of millions of dollars in other taxes, including property and real estate taxes. But it didn't directly deny "The Times" reporting on the federal income tax, and Trump himself responded to the report with this tweet, "I know our complex tax laws better than anyone who has ever run for president and I'm the only one who can fix them. #failing@NewYorkTimes."

I spoke to the accountant cited in "The Times" story. He took issue with the story because Trump's income in subsequent years isn't public.

So, does this tell us Trump lost all of this money only in 1995? The answer is no. Almost a billion dollars is a lot of money to lose. We don't know exactly what happened and when it happened. We do know that his businesses were hurting in the early 1990s.

Taj Mahal in Atlantic City, the Plaza Hotel in New York, for example, operating losses from those businesses could have been listed on his tax returns earlier in the 1990s. And then he could have carried them over to 1995.

But we actually don't even know if he used these losses to offset income in later years. The tax law says he could have but without the returns from those later years, we can't know for sure. The big question is, do these documents help us understand how much Donald Trump is really worth? Again, the answer is no.

(on camera): As for how much Donald Trump is really worth, his campaign puts his net worth at $10 billion. Independent analysts at Forbes say it's closer to $3.7 billion and Bloomberg puts it at $3 billion. So, still a lot of questions around that, but it's unlikely that any additional tax information is going to tell us how much he's worth overall. What it will tell us is how much he's earned for the year, how much he's given away to charity and potentially shed light on how he does business.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Cristina, thank you.

There's one thing he could do that would clear a lot of this up, he could release his tax returns prior to 2008, which are not under audit.

So, is this the October surprise?

Let's talk about it with CNN political commentators Jeffrey Lord and Angela Rye. Jeffrey supports Donald Trump.

[18:05:01] Angela supports Hillary Clinton.

Thank you for being here, guys.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hello, Poppy.

HARLOW: Nice to have you.

A lot to pour through. So, Jeffrey, let me begin with you.

Donald Trump is running on the platform of "Make America great again". And he says it is his business acumen that makes him the most equipped to do that. What we see from these tax returns, which the Trump camp is not disputing are legitimate is that he lost nearly a billion dollars and according to Trump he made it back. But since he hasn't released his tax returns, he can't prove that.

The bigger question I think is, is this what the country want? A financial manager who has really good years and really bad years with the country's finances?

LORD: We're already $22 trillion dollar in debt with the government folks running things. So, I can't imagine that he could do any worse.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Yes. But is that the argument you want to make for a guy who has run on his business record, Jeffrey?

LORD: Poppy, wait a second, Christina just cited "Forbes" magazine. I want to read a sentence to you from a story in "Forbes" magazine in January of this year and it says, "For tax year 2014, 'The New York Times' paid no taxes and got an income tax refund of $3.5 million.

HARLOW: "New York Times" is not on the ballot. They're not on the ballot.

LORD: I'm sorry.

HARLOW: There is not an equivalency.

LORD: Poppy, it is about crony capitalism. It's about a tax code that's driven with corruption, special interest and loopholes. That's what it's about.

Poppy, today, this day, I was stopped in the grocery store by a woman I don't know is a say how smart she's is. She and her husband have to go through the same thing. She thinks the tax code is a joke.

Poppy --

HARLOW: Let me get Angela in here. I hear you. Let me get Angela in here.

I don't think anyone argues that our tax code is correct right now. It's not been changed since 1984. This week I was in Pennsylvania, a key swing state that both of your candidates desperately want to win. Here is what one voter told me. She is a Trump supporter. This is about the taxes. I should note this is before "The New York Times" report and this tax returns were revealed. But here is how she put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETH HAMILTON, PENNSYLVANIA TRUMP SUPPORTER: Donald Trump didn't write the tax code. Politicians wrote the tax code. So, you know, you'd like to think the man who made that much money paid some taxes. If he gets away with not paying taxes, I don't know that I hold it against him. It's the tax code.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HALOW: That's how she sees it, Angela. And Secretary Clinton was a senator. And she could have taken this on as her mission, comprehensive tax reform. She did not. Is she partially to blame for the system?

ANGELA RYE, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: I'm not willing to blame Hillary Clinton for what's wrong with decades of issues with the tax code. I mean, there's been tax reform proposals that have been produced and suggested Congress after Congress. So, it's probably a little more convoluted than just Senator Hillary Clinton from New York, Poppy.

Frankly, there are a number of officials to blame. That's this very stagnant Congress we have seen, an obstructionist Congress throughout the duration of President Obama's presidency but you also see a Congress who doesn't know whether or not Saudi Arabia should be liable for 9/11 lawsuits. So, this is a very confused Congress and some instances perhaps even uneducated.

HARLOW: You don't think she bears any sort of responsibility for the system that the voter was saying, look, it's politicians who have been in office who have left the system the way it is?

RYE: Poppy, let me give you a number since we're talking numbers today, 535. Those are numbers of United States senators and members of the House of Representatives. So, if you want to blame, Hillary Clinton, she's of 535th of the problem.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Jeffrey, let me ask you. I want you to respond to this because back in, not that long ago, September 2015, while he was running for president, Donald Trump tweeted this, "The hedge fund guys and gals have to pay higher taxes, ASAP. They are practically -- they are paying practically nothing. We must reduce taxes for the middle class."

These returns show that your candidate Donald Trump benefitted from similar hoop holes that those hedge fund managers benefit from. They benefit from carried interest being taxed at a lower rate. He is slamming them for using the legal loopholes while he is doing the same.

How do you square that?

LORD: But, Poppy, because they all have to work within the tax code. I mean, there are no loopholes here.

HARLOW: Why is he slamming them? Wait. Why is he slamming them? Why is he slamming them?

LORD: Because he's having the same objection that a lot of other people are having here. He's going to take advantage of it.

People pay taxes -- wait, wait, people pay taxes like Donald Trump because they risk, they invest, they create jobs. That's why they're taxed is because they have succeeded in their risk.

[18:10:02] Sometimes they fail. But this is all about, among other things, the willingness to risk, which he has shown in spades.

HARLOW: But here's the problem -- here's the problem with a willingness to risk. Of course, you need a willingness to risk. That is, you know, the American way and entrepreneurialism. I get that. But at what expense?

If you look at his business record because that is what he's running on, Jeffrey. And you look back to the same year, '95 from the tax returns, it's the same year that his company, Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts went public. And every year, from '95 to when it went bankrupt in 2004, every year, it lost money. It eventually went bankrupt with $600 million in losses.

He made a lot of money in the meantime on it when he was paid for running it and an investor that put a hundred bucks in that stock in '95, if they took their shares out in 2000 even before the bankruptcy, they would have been left with $8.72.

LORD: But, Poppy that is -- that's what capitalism is. Making investments and sometimes investments don't pan out. That's just fact of capitalism. (CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: It went bankrupt so he wasn't financially hurt by it and the shareholders were. My point is he's running on his business record. Does he not have to answer for these things?

LORD: Poppy, of course he has to answer for failure and for success. And on balance, he's had tremendous success and very little failure. That's the point or he wouldn't be a candidate and a successful candidate in the first place.

HARLOW: Angela, I want you to address this because Donald Trump has called many, many times on Hillary Clinton to release the transcripts of her paid Wall Street speeches. She was paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by Wall Street banks for these speeches. As she will, one would expect, and her campaign already has attacked Donald Trump on these tax returns, does she have a issue with transparency has well when it comes to not being willing to release what she said to those banks and got paid a lot of money for it?

RYE: So, Poppy, you opened this segment talking about non- equivalency. Same thing applies here. This --

HARLOW: Why, is it not transparency issue?

RYE: I'm getting ready to answer you. Wall Street speech versus tax returns. She's released her tax returns every year over the past three decades, that's not the same thing.

So, Donald Trump also calls for Barack Obama to release his birth certificates, or birth certificate rather -- birther certificates, plural if you add Donald Trump, because he wasn't born here. But my point, he told the United States public that he would release his tax returns when he was considering a presidential run in 2011 and he could do it if Barack Obama released his birth certificate.

He's making that same argument now and has made that same argument, one about the e-mails and, of course, these speeches. It's ridiculous.

HARLOW: But it is such a close election, isn't this going to matter for her to be able to fully grasp the issue of transparency? Doesn't she need to be do the same?

RYE: He's not going to release his tax returns. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump's transparency are not the same. We're talking about apples and oranges. So, if folks want to see transcripts from speeches, whatever, I want to see how they're going to run the country as a result of her 30 years of public service and him years in business. And the only --

HARLOW: I got to leave it there.

RYE: OK, no problem.

HARLOW: I got to leave it there. They're giving me the wrap. I appreciate it.

LORD: Thanks, Poppy. Thanks, Angela.

HARLOW: Jeffrey, Angela, thank you very much.

Coming up next, Paula Jones, Monica Lewinsky, and Gennifer Flowers, a look at the Trump's strategy to bring up Bill Clinton's infidelity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't think she's loyal to Bill if you want to know the truth. Really, folks, why should she be, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: I should note that is a completely baseless claim.

Also, Tim Kaine and Mike Pence getting on their big face off on the debate stage Tuesday night. But, first, you remember this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: Can I call you Joe?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:17:21] HARLOW: One week from today, the second presidential debate, but before that on Tuesday night, the only time the vice presidential hopefuls will meet face-to-face on a debate stage. Senator Tim Kaine and Governor Mike Pence, they will debate on the campus of Longwood University in Virginia. And as for the two ticket headliners, Donald Trump told "The New York Times" he's capable of being nastier than Clinton in future debates. Just last night, he hinted without giving any evidence that Clinton might not be faithful to her husband.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't even think she's loyal to Bill, you want to know the truth. And really, folks, really, why should she be, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: I should note that's not based in any fact.

I want to note about these debate, all of them. And I want to talk about them with professor Alan Schroeder of the Northeastern University School of Journalism. He's also the author of the book, "President Debates: Risky Business on the Campaign Trail".

Thanks for being with me.

ALAN SCHROEDER, NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF JOURNALISM: Thank you, Poppy. HARLOW: So, I think Donald Trump is likely going to go there in the

October 9th debate. He's certainly hinting at it. Is it effective, at all, for him? Will it be effective line of attack and do voters care if he brings up Bill Clinton's past infidelities?

SCHROEDER: No. I don't think it's effective at all for the following reason. It has absolutely nothing to do with the voters and their needs. So, particularly in a town hall format, which is what this next debate is going to be between Clinton and Trump, what the voters want to hear is how the election is affecting them and why they should vote for a particular candidate over the other. So, to drudge up this stuff from, you know, 25 years ago, 20 years ago, it just seems like a really, weird strategy.

HARLOW: Does it have the potential to help Hillary Clinton? Does it have the potential to make more people sympathetic to her?

SCHROEDER: Yes, I think it does because we saw that during the scandal itself, that was something that boosted her popularity. So, I think, you know, Trump may not be able to resist the temptation to go there, but strategically, there's absolutely no percentage in it for him.

HARLOW: All right. Let's talk about Tuesday night, because V.P. debates have certainly produced some memorable moments. Look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who am I? Why am I here?

PALIN: How long have I been at this like five weeks?

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

[18:20:02] HARLOW: Some memorable moments we'll walk down memory lane. But really, give us a reality check. How important is the V.P. debate in moving the needle on a ticket. This is a neck and neck race.

SCHROEDER: Right. But people don't vote for vice president. So, it's really good political theater. And, you know, normally, the vice presidential debates can be livelier and more animated than the presidentials because, you know, the stakes are lower. Sometimes the characters are more colorful.

But not necessarily this year. This could be one of those weird years where the veep debates take the backseat that, you know, traditionally they don't.

HARLOW: Let's have a little fun. Let's talk about "Saturday Night Live". I fell asleep at 9:30. So, I didn't see it. But a lot of people did. And "SNL" had a lot of fun with Trump and Clinton.

Let' watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATE MCKINNON AS HILLARY CLINTON: I mean, this man is clearly unfit to be commander in chief. He is a bully.

ALEC BALDWIN AS DONALD TRUMP: Shut up.

MCKINNON: He started the birther movement.

BALDWIN: You did.

MCKINNON: He says climate change is a hoax invented by China.

BALDWIN: It's pronounced gina.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What about the power of parody? I mean, you've got like six or seven million people on average watch SNL. I bet it was a whole lot more last night. What can it do for the candidates, good or bad?

SCHROEDER: Well, it actually does help set these perceptions that exist of the candidates. You know, think about all the way back to '76 when "Saturday Night Live" first went on the air how Gerald Ford's persona was kind of defined by Chevy Chase. And it's really been like that every election cycle since.

I think the casting of Alec Baldwin was really a tear, you know? Just as Tina Fey won her Emmy for Sarah Palin. I think Alec Baldwin be in line for some reward for this. And Kate McKinnon, too, a very --

HARLOW: She won too. Yes, Kate McKinnon won an Emmy last year for Clinton as well. A lot of people think Sarah Palin said, "I can see Russia from my house." That was a Tina Fey line. Not Sarah Palin.

Professor, thank you. We'll be watching on Tuesday night. No question.

SCHROEDER: Thank you.

HARLOW: Coming up, as I said they only meet face-to-face one time. Pence and Kaine battling on that debate stage for their candidate who will the night. The vice presidential debate here on CNN, Tuesday starting at 4:00 p.m.

And a reminder, just four weeks before the election, Clinton and Trump return to the stage for the second presidential debate. CNN covers it all. That is Sunday, October the 9th.

Coming up for us, what Bernie Sanders had the say about leaked audio of Hillary Clinton describing his policy positions in part this way.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) CLINTON: It's false promise, but I don't think you tell idealistic people, particularly young people that they've bought into false promise. His ideas are indefensible.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:26:36] HARLOW: Former presidential candidate Bernie Sanders is standing up for his former rival. He told our Jake Tapper on CNN "STATE OF THE UNION" earlier today, responding to a leaked audio recording from February where Hillary Clinton spoke about some of his own policy proposals. Here's what Sanders said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: There's a deep desire to believe that, you know, we can have free college, free health care, it's false promise. But I don't think you tell idealistic people, particularly young people that they've bought into a false promise. His ideas are indefensible.

JAKE TAPPER, HOST, CNN'S STATE OF THE UNION: What was your reaction when you heard that, calling your ideas indefensible, saying that you were selling them false promises?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, two things. If you listen to the whole discussion that she had, a very important point that she made is that a lot of young people who went into debt, worked very lard to get a good education, get out of school and can't find jobs commensurate with the education that they receive. And there's a lot of unhappiness about young people and this is an issue that we must address.

But the bottom line here is that I think that what Secretary Clinton and I have done since the election, since the primary nominating process, we have worked together in a number of areas. Secretary Clinton has worked with me to make certain that public colleges and universities become tuition free for all families earning 125,000 or less, that we double funding for community health centers, which means that we'll have access to primary care for millions more Americans and, by the way, apropos to Donald Trump not paying any taxes, she has come up with a state tax proposal which will ask the very wealthiest people in this country --

TAPPER: Yes.

SANDERS: -- wealthiest families in this country to start paying their fair share.

TAPPER: I get that, Senator, but she's calling other ideas you pitched, not the ones you two are working on tighter. But she called other ones false promises and said that what you were doing was indefensible. That must bother you.

SANDERS: Well, look, we were -- of course, it does. But we're in a middle of a campaign and I -- trust me, if you go to some of the statements that I made about Hillary Clinton, you could see real differences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Bernie Sanders with Tapper there.

Coming up next, "The New York Times" saying that Trump's tax documents were mailed to them anonymously, but they did say that they had a return address of Trump Tower. Of course, someone could have just written that it. We don't know. But you'll hear next from the reporter who got those records in her mailbox one day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:32:28] HARLOW: Well, if you opened up "The New York Times" this morning, you saw the headline, Donald Trump's 1995 tax returns, portions of which were mailed to "The Times." And today, our very own Brian Stelter sat down with one of those reporters who broke the story.

Susanne Craig explained the tedious process of vetting the tax return pages that she says were anonymously mailed to her. The return address claimed that envelope was sent from Trump Tower. Bryan Stelter asked her this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Are you sitting on more documents?

SUSANNE CRAIG, THE NEW YORK TIMES: We're doing a lot of reporting around this, so we're going to keep going.

STELTER: OK, so that's a yes? You have more documents besides the three?

CRAIG: That may be a no comment.

STELTER: A no comment. And who do you think sent the documents? The return address was Trump Tower. That doesn't mean they definitely came from Trump Tower, does it?

CRAIG: No, it doesn't obviously. They could have come from any number of sources.

STELTER: Do you know who?

CRAIG: Again, I mean, a no comment on that one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: CNN Politics Reporter Tom LoBianco is with me, as is our Jeanne Sahadi from "CNN MONEY" who's been up all night pouring through all of this and CNN Politics Analyst Rebecca Berg, national political reporter with Real Clear Politics. Thank you guys for being here.

Jeanne, let me begin with you. You've been talking to a number of tax experts, and you say there are sort of two schools of thought on this one.

JEANNE SAHADI, CNN MONEY SENIOR WRITER: Right. Most of them, I've talked to tax lawyers, some of whom actually advise clients like Donald Trump, and their take on this is that $916 million dollar loss is not unusual for that period of time. Real estate prices had fallen quite a bit for several years prior to that, so they don't find that unusual. They would advise their own clients to take as many tax breaks as are available to them. So, if that's what Trump did, you know, that's typical.

But then another school of thought is you have to really look at this as an indictment of the tax code, that the tax code needs reform, that real estate investments, in particular for active investors like Donald Trump, are unbelievably generous relative to, obviously, what they are for the individual but even relative to some other industries as well.

HARLOW: You know, it's interesting because, Tom, when you look at just the politics around this -- because everything is political 37 days out from the election -- you say this comes at the worst time for Trump, and you actually suggest he needs to learn a lesson from Hillary Clinton and her e-mail debacle. What's that lesson?

TOM LOBIANCO, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes. Well, you know, it's transparency. It's actual transparency beyond the talking points. You know, when Clinton and the Clinton campaign finally determined, you know, that they were going to sit down and answer this thing, they had an answer. And it wasn't 30 days before the election, or 36, 37 days before the election.

HARLOW: It wasn't that long ago, Tom, that she finally just apologized.

[18:35:08] LOBIANCO: Well, and the flip side of that, of course, is that they dragged their feet on it and you get problems like this. You know, if you're a politician and especially when we find out something, when the press finds out something, when the journalists find out something, we put it out there. That means that the candidate, the campaign, is not the one controlling the release of the information, you know.

This is why transparency is a good thing politically, you know. We like it because we're out here trying to, you know, get all that we can out to the public. All right? But I think it's also good politics.

And if Trump had put out his tax returns, you know, the same weekend as, you know, Time Kaine and Mike Pence and, you know, Clinton released her latest tax returns, then it would have been lumped with theirs. It would have been a huge story --

HARLOW: Right.

LOBIANCO: -- but you wouldn't have a story like this coming out now at just the worst possible time. HARLOW: Rebecca, I mean, I think twofold here. A, is this the

October surprise, at least for Trump? And, B, you know, Donald Trump has even said that releasing his tax returns may have cost Mitt Romney the election. He said that to Greta Van Susteren on Fox in July. And we know that when Romney finally released his returns, it showed he paid a 14 percent effective tax rate, and that hurt him with a lot of folks.

REBECCA BERG, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, REAL CLEAR POLITICS: It did. And so this could be an October surprise for Trump in the sense that polling has shown voters actually really do care about this issue. It's not maybe the top issue or top concern they have when it comes to Donald Trump, but it does rank as a concern among most voters when they're looking at Donald Trump and trying to evaluate his candidacy.

And as Tom pointed out, it really does take away from this transparency argument that Donald Trump and his campaign are trying to make relative to Hillary Clinton and the Clinton Foundation and her e- mails at the State Department. It's been a major theme for him that he's been trying to make in respect to Clinton. And when he is not being forthright and transparent with his own tax returns, clearly a major issue for him. It becomes a less credible argument for him to make. So it's definitely significant for him, there's no question.

HARLOW: At the same time, Jeanne, I wonder if the public would be sitting here and arguing over whether Trump was a bad businessman if these came out, and he didn't take advantage of any of the loopholes.

SAHADI: Well, you know --

HARLOW: Because he's running on his business record.

SAHADI: Right, but here's the thing. We just don't know where those losses came from. Was it because of a colossal business failure?

HARLOW: Right.

SAHADI: The documents themselves don't show it. I know everyone is assuming that because of his business record that we know about, but it could be just a very aggressive form of tax planning or it's possible it could be a tax shelter that he used, possibly an illegal one. There's just no way to say one way or the other.

The assumption is it's all legal. He certainly, under the guise of his business, can take --

HARLOW: Let me get --

SAHADI: -- any number of breaks to get down to here.

HARLOW: Let me get your take on this one because a top surrogate for Trump, Jeanne, Rudy Giuliani, came on State of the Union Trade Cap at this morning. And he said that Donald Trump has a fiduciary responsibility to take every single break he can.

SAHADI: Yes.

HARLOW: I was sort of looking at that and saying, a fiduciary responsibility to who? To himself?

SAHADI: Well, you know, if he's in a partnership, again --

HARLOW: Well, he doesn't have shareholders.

SAHADI: But he might. He might have partners and he might have passive investors in his LLC, you don't know. Again, I can't tell you anything based on those three pages that we saw. But he may have a contractual obligation to people who invested with him to do that. We don't know that. We don't have those contracts in front of us.

But, you know what, he would have -- I almost think that's not a huge point just because he would have done it any way. Businesses do that.

HARLOW: So, Tom --

SAHADI: And he's not the only one with net operating losses. Any business can take in an operating loss, so.

HARLOW: Tom, what does he do now? What's his counter punch on this come Monday morning? I mean, all we have is a few tweets from him saying I'd be the best for taxes and a statement that doesn't deny that these are authentic.

LOBIANCO: Well, if you follow the Trump play book from the campaign, you throw something out there that's even wilder than this and then we'll latch on to that. I'm not sure if that would work. I'm not sure there is anything much wilder at this point that you could do, you know.

But I would argue that, you know, you should release them for transparency's sake. But we're pretty late in the game at this point, you know. It could change, right, if we get some more Clinton e-mails coming up, you know. He could put it back, but it's going to be tough at this point.

HARLOW: Tom, Rebecca, Jeanne, thank you all.

BERG: Thanks.

HARLOW: I would point you to Jeanne's reporting at the cnnmoney.com. It makes a whole lot of sense, the way she breaks it down. Thank you, guys.

SAHADI: Thank you, Poppy.

LOBIANCO: Thanks.

[18:39:46] HARLOW: Coming up, a stern warning from CIA Director John Brennan. America's enemies plotting to take advantage of the U.S. election. We have a special report here live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARLOW: Just 37 days until Election Day and whoever wins this race, they will face enormous challenges on the national security front. Our Barbara Starr reports on how they could be tested by America's adversaries, perhaps, on Day One.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, plans are already being made for a new President to be up to date on the latest threats to the United States as soon as the election is over.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR (voice-over): North Korea's march towards a nuclear weapon that could attack the U.S. is now one of the CIA's top intelligence concerns for the next president of the United States.

JOHN BRENNAN, DIRECTOR, CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY: These are things that the new national security team, the new President and his or her advisors, are going to have to deal with from Day One.

STARR (voice-over): In his extraordinarily candid interview with Erin Burnett, CIA Director John Brennan revealed the spy agency already is identifying a number of immediate threats the next president is likely to confront.

RETIRED LIEUTENANT GENERAL MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: From the very beginning, the North Korean young leader is going to try and do things that will cause turmoil in the new administration.

STARR (voice-over): North Korea tops the list. The U.S. doesn't know what Kim Jong-un will do. A new president must be prepared for a sudden move from Kim even within hours of taking office.

BRENNAN: That's something that the new team and the current team is looking at very, very closely and will need to be able to address.

STARR (voice-over): Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump already have received initial intelligence briefings and have teams planning for transition. But the morning after the election, the new president- elect will start to be told about what is called "the crown jewels," the most sensitive intelligence about America's enemies.

[18:45:12] On the list, ISIS. In a few weeks, the battle to retake ISIS strongholds in Raqqa, Syria and Mosul, Iraq are expected to be underway. ISIS' leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is still at large and threatening the west.

But away from the battlefield, worries about a so-called Pearl Harbor level cyberattack that could take down the nation's financial networks. And then there is Russian leader Vladimir Putin. Will Putin try to take advantage of a new president?

HERLING: I don't think Putin will, I know he will.

STARR (voice-over): President Obama's most senior intelligence adviser with a warning about the next few months. JAMES CLAPPER, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: And this upcoming

transition will happen at a particularly, I think, difficult time as we're facing the most complex and diverse array of global threats that I've seen in my 53 years or so in the intel business.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: North Korea remains one of the biggest worries. The U.S. has very little intelligence about the regime or its leader, Kim Jong-un. Poppy.

HARLOW: Barbara, thank you very much for that. Quick break. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:50:05] HARLOW: "Saturday Night Live" is back, and we missed it. If you missed it, you missed Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton squaring off. All right, not the real candidates but, you know. Jessica Schneider has some of the best outtakes from SNL's mock presidential debate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: My microphone is broken.

(LAUGHTER)

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Alec Baldwin posing with a pout and planting on a toupee to channel Trump.

BALDWIN: Can you hear that? It's picking up somebody sniffing here. I think it's her sniffs. She's been sniffing all night. Testing. Testing.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): The 16-time record holding "SNL" host taking over Trump for the new season. Baldwin bringing up Trump's Twitter tirades.

BALDWIN: I'm going to set my alarm for 3:20 a.m. I'll go sit on my golden toilet bowl and tweet about it until completion.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): And his off color remarks from last week's debate.

BALDWIN: We should be talking about the important issues, like Rosie O'Donnell and how she is a fat loser.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): The election cycle long providing "SNL" with plenty of fodder for its comedy, from Tina Fey's Sarah Palin.

TINA FEY, ACTRESS: And I can see Russia from my house. (LAUGHTER)

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): To Will Ferrell as George W. Bush.

WILL FERRELL, ACTOR: Strategery.

MCKINNON: Hey, bartender, keep them coming.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): This season, Kate McKinnon will reprise her role as Hillary Clinton to battle Baldwin's Trump.

MCKINNON: He hasn't released his tax returns which means he's either not that rich --

BALDWIN: Wrong.

MCKINNON: -- not that charitable --

BALDWIN: Wrong.

MCKINNON: -- or he's never paid taxes in his life.

BALDWIN: Warmer.

MICHAEL CHE, ACTOR: Secretary Clinton, what do you think about that?

MCKINNON: I think I'm going to be President.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): But it wasn't just Baldwin bearing the brunt of the ridicule. McKinnon mocked Clinton's relentless debate prep and ruthless presidential ambition.

MCKINNON: Listen, America, I get it. You hate me. You hate my voice and you hate my face. Well, here's a tip. If you never want to see my face again, elect me President and I swear to God, I will lock myself in the Oval Office and not come out for four years. But if you don't elect me, I will continue to run for President until the day I die and I will never die.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): And McKinnon showcased Clinton's now signature shimmy.

MCKINNON: Not a response, more of a request. Can America vote right now?

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): It wasn't just the candidates lampooned.

DARRYL HAMMOND, ACTOR: We're just getting acquainted.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Just about everyone in the political realm this season took a hit, including Trump's three oldest children.

MARGOT ROBBIE, ACTRESS: What an interesting and wonderful question, Steve. May I ask my brothers for help?

KENAN THOMPSON, ACTOR: They're not here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we are.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we are.

THOMPSON: Who is this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Donald Jr., the brains.

ROBBIE: I'm Ivanka, the beauty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I'm Eric.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): An unprecedented election cycle.

BALDWIN: It is over. Good night, Hofstra.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Sure to continue providing plenty of comedy on Saturday nights. Jessica Schneider, CNN New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Jessica, thank you very much. Coming up next, CNN one-on-one with Gary Johnson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST, MSNBC: Name a foreign leader that you respect.

GARY JOHNSON, (Lib) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I guess I'm having an Aleppo moment in the former President of Mexico.

MATTHEWS: But I'm giving you the whole world.

JOHNSON: I know, I know, I know.

MATTHEWS: Anybody in the world you like. Anybody. Pick any leader.

JOHNSON: The former president of Mexico.

MATTHEWS: Which one?

JOHNSON: I'm having a brain -- I'm having a brain cramp.

MATTHEWS: Well, name anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:57:38] HARLOW: While Hillary Clinton battles Donald Trump in the race for the White House, Libertarian Gary Johnson faces overwhelming odds in his quest for the Presidency. He is polling at 29 percent though among young voters.

He spoke today with our Fredricka Whitfield. She pressed him for an answer on a question that he struggled with.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: So you've had time to sleep on it, think it over, think that --

JOHNSON: A foreign leader. A foreign leader that I admired in this --

WHITFIELD: That you admire.

JOHNSON: What is this? For -- at four days --

WHITFIELD: So you've had time to think about it.

JOHNSON: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Do you have any answer on this then?

JOHNSON: So I still can't come up with one. I can't still --

WHITFIELD: You cannot?

JOHNSON: I still can't come up with one. Well, that I admire, that I'm going to have to defend, a foreign leader? Look, one of the surprises I had having been governor is, you know, I held a lot of people up in this country on pedestals that were elected politicians. I came to meet them up front and personal and, you know what? They didn't have the best interests of the country in mind. What they were is they were concerned more with getting re-elected.

WHITFIELD: So --

JOHNSON: I came to find that out. So I'm really skeptical when it comes to elected leaders, and that isn't to say that there aren't a lot of them that I really do like and certainly as governor, I could tell you governors that I admired, but foreign leaders?

WHITFIELD: OK. But it doesn't necessarily -- so you're saying --

JOHNSON: Now, I'm going to be involved in having to defend foreign leaders.

WHITFIELD: Got it. This does not necessarily say, you're not -- this exemplifies that foreign policy, international affairs, is not important to you?

JOHNSON: It's very important, but what really angers me is that because you can dot the I's and cross the T's on geographic locations or the names of foreign leaders, that we put our military in harm's way, that we have men and women that are dying. They're getting hurt. They're getting maimed. They're getting psychologically ruined for the rest of their lives.

We have hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in these countries that we get involved in, in civil wars, intervening from a regime change standpoint. They're getting caught in the crossfire. We're putting our military in harm's way. Look, that's what angers me beyond belief.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Top of the hour. I'm Poppy Harlow, live in New York. Thank you so much for being with us this Sunday night.

We do begin with our first look at Donald Trump's tax records, and it is not because the candidate is releasing them. "The New York Times" today revealing that someone anonymously mailed portions of Trump's tax records to the paper, and they show that Trump may have avoided paying Federal income taxes for nearly two decades. How?