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A Look Ahead at Tonight's Vice Presidential Debate. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired October 04, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:23] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Seems like one of those days when you've got the - you begged your college professors to have class outside. It is so nice to be here in beautiful Farmville, Virginia. I am Brooke Baldwin. You hear the students behind me. They're small but mighty and proud here.

Let me just get the scene for you. Oh, my goodness. A presidential proxy war is about to take place here just a couple of hours from now. Running mates Mike Pence and Tim Kaine squaring off in their very first and only debate. The stakes, they are huge. The debate coming as Hillary Clinton sees a bump in the polls. Check this out with me. Trump is down now five points to Clinton in a four-way race. Donald Trump takes more hits on what has been a very, very bad week for him. The controversies continue to pile up over his taxes, his foundation, the Clintons - their marriage, the fidelity issues, he's questioning, and also a beauty queen.

Folks, we are five weeks away till this presidential election and we are expecting Kaine to seize on Trump's recent follies, chiefly echoing Hillary Clinton's tough take on Donald Trump's refusal to release his taxes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Here's my question, what kind of genius loses a billion dollars in a single year?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: On the other side, Pence will have some Trump cleanup and no doubt amplify Trump's attacks on Clinton's own political scandals. You can bet he will also argue that, as an insider, can't or won't change Washington, a message Donald Trump himself is putting right back at the forefront.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: While my opponent focuses on small petty things, we are discussing the vital issues facing our country and our people.

And she'll do everything she can to distract from the issues a her enormous corruption and criminal conduct. A campaign of distraction funded by Wall Street investors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's begin the hour with Sunlen Serfaty. She's here with me in Farmville. She's just outside that debate hall.

And so, Sunlen, beginning with, how are each of the candidates tonight preparing ahead of the big debate?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, I think when both the candidates take the stage tonight, it will be very clear that they are very well prepared. By all accounts, both candidates have approached their debate prep in a very serious, consistent and disciplined way. They've both been running through question and answers with aides for months and for the last few weeks certainly at a higher intensity. And both have had these full-fledged mock debate, so they're getting a sense of how tonight may go.

But certainly on the spot tonight will most definitely be Mike Pence, as you mentioned, after Donald Trump's no good very bad week. Certainly he will be facing a lot of questions and will be on the defense about his own running mate. Now, Pence has signaled the direction that he would like the debate to go in tonight. He has said that he is readying an attack on Tim Kaine's record.

But while certainly the center of the political universe feels like it's here in Longwood, there is a lot of action off - away from Farmville here in Longwood University that's going on today. You really have the full contingent, nearly the full contingent of high- profile Clinton surrogates out on the campaign trail. We're talking Bill Clinton, Michelle Obama, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren. And Hillary Clinton out there this morning campaigning herself. She held a town hall in Haverford, Pennsylvania, where there was a very poignant moment with a 15-year-old voter. Here's that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At my school, body image is a really big issue for girls my age. I see with my own eyes the damage Donald Trump does when he talks about women and how they look. As the first female president, how would you undo some of that damage and help girls understand that they are so much more than just what they look like?

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You're - you're right. My - my opponent has just taken this concern to a new level.

If you think about it, my opponent insulted Miss Universe. I mean how do you get more acclaimed than that? But it wasn't good enough. So we can't take any of this seriously anymore. We need to laugh at it. We need to refute it. We need to ignore it. And we need to stand up to it. And especially the bullying. There are too many young women online who are being bullied about how they look and being shamed and mistreated.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SERFATY: That moment, that question-and-answer, certainly falls right in line with the line of attack the Clinton campaign has been pushing recently against Donald Trump. Brooke, I bet no time at all this will be spliced up and appear potentially in a political ad by team Clinton.

Brooke.

[14:05:09] BALDWIN: Sunlen, thank you so much.

I want to springboard off of that last comment with my next panel. I have CNN political commentator Scottie Nell Hughes with me, she supports Donald Trump, CNN political commentator Sally Kohn, who backs Hillary Clinton, and CNN political analyst Jackie Kucinich, who is Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast," and my friend and CNN senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar.

So, ladies, it's the ladies panel. Love it.

Scottie, let me just begin with you. Just coming off of the question from the 15-year-old on body issues. I mean this isn't going away. I realize she's the - it was Hillary Clinton who was being asked about it. But everything that happened with the Miss Universe, and the woman's body issues, and a grown man discussing this at 3:00 in the morning on Twitter, this isn't going away. How does he need to respond to this?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think he needs to handle it with a very classy approach with him and say - and actually just - I don't want to say ignore it, but move on. This just shows that Hillary Clinton does not want to talk about policy. The fact that she just released this ad, not talking about her policies on how she's going to help these women, rather going negative against the words Mr. Trump has said in the past and taking them out of context.

BALDWIN: I don't think this means she doesn't want to talk about policy. She's being asked about a body issue question and it's an issue that Mr. Trump -

HUGHES: But then she releases this ad on top of it. We have yet to hear what she's actually going to do for women. How is he going to help -

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, my gosh.

HUGHES: The 12 percent of women right now that are - the only 12 percent who feel comfortable that they've saved enough for retirement. How is she going to help? A lot of these issues - Obamacare, which is failing right now, and the majority of the exchanges. She has not addressed how she's going to handle those issues.

BALDWIN: Sally, has she addressed it?

HUGHES: She would rather talk about body image.

KOHN: Scottie, you know I love you, but even though you support Mr. Trump, you can't do his thing where if you repeat something enough it becomes true. It's just not true. Donald Trump - you must be confused because Donald Trump is the one in this election who actually has no policy solutions when pressed for details. He lacks them over and over and over. Hillary Clinton has policy details. She's spelled them out in speeches. She just gave a speech on economics. She's put them out in a book. They're all over her website. She actually has plans. You may not like the plans, but then say that. But to say she doesn't have them, number one, and, number two, Donald Trump, which boggles the mind, has kept this issue at the forefront for the last week.

HUGHES: (INAUDIBLE).

KOHN: Hillary Clinton has - he's the one who called - who attacked Miss Universe in the first place, belittled her, (INAUDIBLE), you know, dropped (ph) in on her -

HUGHES: Actually - hold on.

KOHN: During her exercise session with the press -

BALDWIN: Respond and then I want to move on.

KOHN: To fat shame her and then he's the one who started the tweets. He's the one who went on Fox News and said she was the worst ever and really had gained a lot of weight. And it was - that was - I don't see Hillary Clinton didn't mention that he did it. Come on.

HUGHES: Fact - fact check. Hillary Clinton - fact check, Hillary Clinton turned last week's debate into a middle drama -

KOHN: Yes, you're right, Hillary Clinton did it all by -

HUGHES: By bringing it up first. Mr. Trump has the right to - she has the right to defend himself. And by the - he has a right to defend himself. And, by the way, just saying you're going to raise taxes on the wealthy is not the way that you have a plan or a solution.

BALDWIN: OK. From plans to polls, I look at you and I think polls. I wonder why. Let's talk about - let's talk about the polls that we have in today. This is a new poll of likely voters showing Clinton leading Trump by five. Looking ahead to tonight, Mike Pence has to be feeling the pressure. We're also a couple of days out from the town hall forum this weekend in St. Louis. Talk about the pressure, the high stakes for both Pence and Trump.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there - there is a lot of pressure and, you know, I think that's because there's just so much more interest in these debates, and that includes the vice presidential debate.

You know, normally, in a case like this, it's, I think, two candidates who are trying to prove that they're ready to step in at a moment's notice.

BALDWIN: Yes. KEILAR: That may be part of it. But what I find so interesting about it is, you have a lot of Democrats who - and Republicans who would actually prefer that tonight's vice presidential debate was the presidential debate. You know, there are a lot of Democrats who would be more comfortable with Tim Kaine than maybe Hillary Clinton. And certainly a lot of Republicans who would be more comfortable with Mike Pence as the nominee than Donald Trump as the nominee. So I think, above all, it's do no harm.

BALDWIN: OK.

KEILAR: But I do think that these are two candidates who have a strong grasp of the issues and the policies. I think one of the struggles for Mike Pence is going to be picking and choosing, you know, where he agrees - he clearly has some disagreements with Donald Trump. Now, he's captain cleanup a lot, right, he - and he sort of softens some of the things Donald Trump says or sort of is able to, you know, gloss over them. But I think they're going to be some things where he feels like he can defend them more and there are going to be some things that maybe he actually feels in his heart are indefensible and he has to figure out how he's going to do that. It's - it's a lot of (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: It's a tricky gig because you have to be up on obviously your own policies and you have to be up on what, you know, the folks at the top of the ticket, how they feel, which may not always jive with how you felt.

Let me ask you, Jackie, because we've been talking about how the Clinton campaign have been throwing out all the top-tiered surrogates today, including Bill Clinton, who was out and he made some news, for better or for worse, using the word "crazy" and Obamacare in the same line, same sentence. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: But the people who are getting killed in this deal are small business and individuals who make just a little too much to get any of these subsidies. Why? Because they're not organized, they don't have any bargaining power with insurance companies and they're getting whacked. So you've got this crazy system where all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care and then the people are out there busting it, sometimes 60 hours a week, wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:10:22] BALDWIN: OK, first of all, is he wrong? And second of all, will there be cleanup?

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: This is why Bill Clinton is a blessing and a curse in his campaign because he is - he's Bill Clinton. He's going to go say what he thinks.

BALDWIN: Yes. KUCINICH: And yet this isn't helpful. He's not talking about his wife, he's talking about Obamacare. And that's not why he's there. He's also - but he's a huge draw, particularly for blue collar workers, which is why they're sending him to eastern Ohio, and he - so this - this is why - I mean but he really connects with people. But you take that with, you know, him maybe going off topic and you can talk about Medicare next week. He's supposed to be a Hillary Clinton surrogate and this is what he's doing.

BALDWIN: Will voters associate Hillary with Obamacare?

KEILAR: Oh, I think - I think there's no doubt.

BALDWIN: Yes.

KEILAR: And I think what you're hearing some of the surrogates say is, you know, and we just heard Amy Klobuchar and she said, well, I've always believed that Obamacare was a beginning and not an end.

BALDWIN: Right.

KEILAR: I think the issue for what we heard Bill Clinton say is that there is some truth to that and certainly some people are feeling that. But that's also a side effect of - and Jackie and I covered health care reform on The Hill from beginning to end.

BALDWIN: Yes, you did.

KEILAR: And I think what we remembered was, at the very beginning of it, it was, we're going to tackle the cost.

KUCINICH: Yes.

KEILAR: And they sort of bent the cost curve, which just means it's increasing less fast, that's pretty bad. That's not great, right? And so it's still really an issue that people are feeling, and clearly that is something that kind of needed to be pared, but tackling the cost wasn't something that was really politically palatable. And so it's still something that needs to be achieved. In that regard, he's not wrong.

BALDWIN: How do you feel?

HUGHES: Well, I'm - I'm glad he's our new surrogate for the Trump campaign, thank you, Bill Clinton, because with 15 of those affordable health care exchanges failing, that's the reason why in 2010 Republicans were able to come back because of Obamacare and how much we were hurting. You couldn't keep the doctors you were promised. So this is a great thing. I'm hoping tonight that Mike Pence capitalizes on this and let's talk about how the Affordable Health Care Act as really hurt the middle class and hurt women when it comes to their health care.

KEILAR: Well, I would say I don't think if it's something that necessarily helps Donald Trump because you could have people who are liberal and say, actually it didn't go far enough and that's why. KUCINICH: Right.

KEILAR: And I don't know if that's something that plays to Donald Trump's advantage so much as maybe like a Bernie - if she were up against Bernie Sanders and maybe (INAUDIBLE).

(CROSS TALK)

KOHN: I mean, I think that's right. Look, look, I'm on Obamacare. I can - I can categorically say it is better than what I had before Obamacare, but it is not as good as what it could be. And Hillary Clinton, fortunately, has a plan to make Obamacare better by including a public option, whereas Donald Trump, like the rest of the Republican Party, only wants to repeal it and has no plan for what he would do for the 20 million people who would lose health insurance.

HUGHES: Actually, that's not true.

KOHN: And by the way, it goes to, I think, what we're going to see in tonight's debate, which is Tim Kaine, who represents both a candidate in Hillary Clinton and in a party, which is about moving the country forward. It is about embracing immigrants. It is about embracing women's rights. It is about trying to provide opportunity, health care for all, versus Mike Pence, who actually, I hope people do take away from tonight, where they may not know where Donald Trump stands on issues, we very much know where Mike Pence stands on issues. He is - stands for backwards policy on gay rights, on women's rights, on immigration across the board and I hope people are paying attention because that should really give them a sense of who Donald Trump is, that he picked this man as his running mate.

BALDWIN: We just saw the pictures, Tim Kaine, formerly on the Richmond City Council, this is how he started up in to governor and then senator. Pictures of him arriving her, at Longwood University.

Ladies, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

KOHN: You bet. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Just a quick reminder for you, CNN's full coverage of tonight's debate starts at 4:00 Eastern, leading up to the main event. And then it is Mike Pence and Tim Kaine debating tonight at 9:00 Eastern. Please watch live here on CNN.

Just ahead, you know it's 2016 when a Republican senator is now backing off calling her nominee a role model for kids. You will see the tape.

Plus, Donald Trump claims there is a race riot in America monthly. Is that true? Let's discuss.

And breaking news, a deadly hurricane making landfall and heading straight for the United States. We will take you live to where Hurricane Matthew is hitting right now.

We're live in Farmville, Virginia. Glad to be here. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

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[14:18:29] BALDWIN: We are back here live in beautiful Virginia, in Farmville. Thank you so much, Longwood University, for having us here. We're talking politics this evening ahead of the big debate at Longwood University. And let me just tell you this, that Donald Trump defending revelations about his possible tax avoidance, touting it as proof of his business acumen, business savvy. At a rally in Pueblo, Colorado, just Monday night, Trump confronted the tax issue that was raised over the weekend in "The New York Times" report, issuing it - addressing it head on and even boasting about it. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I have legally used the tax laws to my benefit. And to the benefit of my company, my investors and my employees. I mean, honestly, I have brilliantly - I have brilliantly used those laws.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With me now, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, who is a senior Trump adviser.

It's nice to see you again.

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, SENIOR ADVISER FOR DONALD TRUMP: Great to be here.

BALDWIN: Welcome to beautiful Farmville, Virginia.

With the way Mr. Trump addressed this last night, saying the way he brilliantly used the tax laws. Is that him in - do you see that as him essentially admitting, OK, he didn't pay the taxes for a number of years?

SANDERS: I think it's him saying, I followed the letter of the law, which is what we would expect for not only any businessman, but any American to do, is to follow the law that was given. You know, there's all this back and forth. I don't really understand why the Clinton campaign would make this an issue because, in this race, they're the only ones that have helped write or pass any legislation. If they're upset with anybody, they should be upset with themselves. Hillary Clinton's the only one that's ever played a role in passing or writing law, not Donald Trump. All he did was follow a law that was written.

[14:20:10] BALDWIN: Though in following the law that was written, would you agree with the Rudy Giuliani's and the Chris Christies of the world who call it genius?

SANDERS: I - I do because, I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm sure when your accountant gave you your taxes you didn't say, you know what, I don't think you've actually asked me to pay enough. Let me add some more. Nobody does that. They pay what they're asked to pay. They pay what they're required to pay under the law. And I don't know why we would expect different rules for Donald Trump than we do any other business person in this country.

BALDWIN: OK. Then what about just the issue also of, you know, regular folks who do pay their share and they're thinking, how the heck do you lose a billion dollars? Which that was like 1995 billion dollars. That could be like a hundred billion dollars today. That's a lot of money.

SANDERS: That's a lot of money.

BALDWIN: What does that say to his business acumen?

SANDERS: I - well, I think, if you look at it in the full context of his life, he was able to go through a major -

BALDWIN: But we're looking at one year.

SANDERS: Yes, but you look at, he was able to fight through the recession, lose that money, and come back and create thousands of jobs. The only job that Hillary Clinton's ever created were government jobs. Those aren't real jobs. That's me and you paying more taxes to do that -

BALDWIN: One billion dollar loss in one year.

SANDERS: And I think one of the reasons that people like Donald Trump is because he's a fighter. He got knocked down and he came back. He built it up. He built a massive fortune, not once but twice. That's the American dream. That's what most people want. They want to be able to build something like that. He's done it, not one time but two times. And I think that's a great success record and something he should be talking about.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you just this - moving off of that, just as a woman, and we were talking in the last segment with my panel about this 15-year-old young woman who just asked Hillary Clinton today the question about body issues in the wake of what Donald Trump did and said and tweeted about the Miss Universe bit last week, body shaming, weight issues, the videos of the gym from years ago. I mean what does he need to say to put this to bed because it's not, because she's still talking about it. And it resonates with so many women. Women he needs on November 8th.

SANDERS: Look, I think one of the biggest issues that women care about - I'm a mom, I'm a working mother. When I go home at night, I'm not thinking about what Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton have said about each other. In fact, I think the most offensive thing that anybody has said in this campaign cycle was Hillary Clinton.

BALDWIN: But isn't it about temperament? Isn't it Donald Trump who keeps talking temperament. And when you have somebody, you know, tweeting at 3:00 in the morning about a Miss Universe and body issues and shaming her, is that the kind of president you want?

SANDERS: Look, again, I think that you can argue the back and forth between these two candidates all day long, but everybody wants to make Donald Trump like he's the most offensive person.

BALDWIN: I'm not. I'm not.

SANDERS: The most offensive comment that has been made to date in this cycle was by Hillary Clinton when she called millions of Americans deplorable and irredeemable, only to follow that up with calling Bernie Sanders' supporters losers that live in their parents' basement. That's offensive to all -

BALDWIN: But if you were offended by that - and I don't disagree - but if you were offended by that, couldn't you also be offended by Trump's weight comments about a woman?

SANDERS: Look, again, I'm not saying that those are necessarily the best way to approach something, but when we're talking about -

BALDWIN: Just, yes or no, Sarah. Just yes or no.

SANDERS: That's probably not my choice of words, no.

BALDWIN: OK. OK. OK.

Looking ahead to tonight and Mike Pence and Tim Kaine, and we know that they're both been doing all their homework. And it's tricky for the person on - you know, the VP on the ticket -

SANDERS: Right.

BALDWIN: Because you have to do your homework, you have to know where you stand and you have to know where, you know, Hillary Clinton or a Donald Trump stands. Tell me something about Mike Pence that we should know about or that you're excited about when he really steps out on a world stage.

SANDERS: Look, I think Mike Pence is one of the most honorable men in politics. He may actually be too nice for this business. He's one of the purest, most best-hearted people. And I think the American people are really going to get a chance to see that firsthand when he steps on to the big stage tonight. He's passionate about people. He's a good person. And I really hope that they can see that come through on the stage.

BALDWIN: Sarah, good to see you. Thank you so much.

SANDERS: You bet.

BALDWIN: I appreciate it.

Coming up, from Farmville, it was a question asked in last night's New Hampshire Senate debate, would you point to Donald Trump as a role model for kids? Why a Republican freshman senator is really facing a tough reelection fight is now saying she misspoke while answering that very question. We'll show you the tape.

[14:24:26] I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: We are live here on Wheeler Lawn at Longwood University here in Farmville, Virginia. A lively crowd. We're thrilled to be here. We are just hours away from the big vice presidential debate tonight. Here you have Tim Kaine, Mike Pence going head to head in a matter of hours making the case for their candidates. And certainly one issue bound to come up, Donald Trump's recent comments on race relations in this country. I want to play you some sound here. This is what he told a crowd of mostly white supporters in Pueblo, Colorado, just last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We're a divided nation and each week it seems we're getting more and more divided with race riots on our streets on a monthly basis. Now, somebody said, don't call them race riots, but that's what they are, they're race riots. And it's happening more and more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Trump went on to list a number of cities where protests have erupted in response to fatal police shootings of African-Americans.

[14:29:59] So I want to begin there with my panel. Here with me, Simone Sanders, CNN political commentator and former press secretary for Bernie Sanders. She now supports Hillary Clinton. Also with us, Andre Bauer, a CNN political commentator and a former South Carolina lieutenant governor who supports Donald Trump.