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NSA Contractor Stole Government Secrets; Trump on Campaign Trail; U.S. Braces for Hurricane Matthew. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 05, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:03] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour, I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me. You're watching CNN.

I want to get straight to the breaking news we have for you.

CNN has learned that highly sensitive government information may have been compromised. The Department of Justice revealing that a federal government contractor with top-secret security clearance has now been arrested. And not only that, charged with stealing classified information and government property.

Let's go straight to our justice correspondent Evan Perez, who's working this for us from Washington.

Who is he, Evan, and what do we know?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, his name is Harold Martin. He's 51 years old. He lives in the D.C. suburbs in Maryland. And he - he was working as a contractor for Booz Allen, which is a major contractor for the intelligence community and for the military. He was working for them doing work for the NSA. And it appears that that's - those are the documents - that's the agency that owned the documents that he is now accused of stealing.

According to the criminal complaint that's been filed in federal court here, the - he was arrested in August, back in August 27th, and the arrest has remained secret until today when the government finally announced it. And that's because they've been working to try to mitigate the damage. They've been trying to figure out, you know, how much information was out there.

Now, we don't know the - (INAUDIBLE) the criminal complaint doesn't really specify what documents they are. It just simply says that these are highly sensitive documents that were released - that, you know, the release of them would do grave harm to the national security of the United States. But there is some - some hints out there as to what these documents might be.

A few months ago, Brooke, there was a release of some hacking tools that belonged to the NSA that the U.S. was using, has been using to hack into the foreign governments, like Russia and Iran. And it appears to be those are the documents that they're talking about. These are some fairly dated documents, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. And if we're talking potentially grave damaged, what's - has the White House responded?

PEREZ: They have. They're limited in what they can say because this is a Justice Department case, but josh Earnest addressed it at his daily briefing. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So this is certainly a situation that the Department of Justice takes seriously, as evidenced by their complaint. This is also a situation that President Obama takes quite seriously and it is a good reminder for all of us with security clearances about how important it is for us to protect sensitive national security information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: And, Brooke, this contractor again is Booz Allen Hamilton, which is a major contractor here in Washington. It's the same contractor that employed Edward Snowden, you might remember.

BALDWIN: Yes.

PEREZ: And so the question now that the administration is going to be facing, and that company, is, what did they do about this insider threat which appears to have struck the same company?

BALDWIN: Evan, thank you. Evan Perez in Washington.

Now to politics.

In a matter of minutes, Donald Trump will be speaking from the swing state of Nevada, as we enter the final stretch of what could be the most consequential moment in this entire election season. The Trump/Clinton, we'll call it the rematch, the second presidential debate, that is just four days away.

And Trump may have just gotten a head start with voters thanks to his running mate. Governor Mike Pence came out on top after the one and only vice presidential debate last night at Longwood University in Virginia. You see the numbers here. The CNN poll found 48 percent of those who watched thought he won over Virginia Senator Tim Kaine. And the poll skews Democratic, I should add.

Style prevailed over substance with debate watchers put off by the 70 plus interruptions, yes, folks were counting, 70 plus interruptions for Senator Kaine, while Governor Pence stayed more cool, measured and he remained understated while doing some - some gloating during a campaign event today. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Had a little debate last night. It was at Longwood University. And I was humbled and honored to be there. Donald Trump called me late last night from Nevada to congratulate me on the debate. That really meant the world to me. It truly did. Some people think I won. But I'll leave that to others. You know, what I can tell you, is from where I sat, Donald Trump won the debate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go straight to Jason Carroll, who is in Henderson, Nevada, where Trump will be speaking shortly. We'll take it live when we seem.

But, Jason Carroll, we've got some intel that Trump is using - I hear the chants - that Trump will be using the campaign trail to prepare for Sunday's town hall. Tell me what we know.

[14:05:09] JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He will. He will. But first let me just talk briefly about that debate.

You know, there's been some talk out there, Brooke, as you know, that Donald Trump initially very happy about Pence's performance, but then word came in that perhaps he was not feeling so good about what some of the commentators were saying thereafter, that Pence was a better debater and Pence was not very effective at defending Donald Trump. Well, the campaign shooting that down. We've already heard some of the surrogates take the stage singing Pence's praises. We're expecting Donald Trump to take the stage just about a half hour from now and also singing of Pence's praises as well.

And already looking forward and looking ahead to what's going to be happening next. In terms of preparation, as you know, Donald Trump criticized for not preparing as well as his critics say he should have for the last debate. The next debate is a town hall format. Trump is holding a town hall of his own tomorrow in New Hampshire. Look at this as sort of a trial run for Trump. A chance for him to sharpen his skills. The campaign really feels as though the town hall format is really his, quote, "sweet spot." They feel as though he does well at a town hall format. That he connects well with people. Their feeling is that Hillary Clinton does not.

The big question is, going forward, Brooke, will Donald Trump learn from some of the things that Pence did well during his debate that Trump was criticized for not doing well. For example, Pence not taking the bait when he was - when he was tried to be lured into sort of commenting on some of the controversial things that Donald Trump has said about Mexicans and about women, and also not interrupting his opponent like Trump did. So that's the question, will he learn from some of the things that Pence did going forward? And that's a question that remains to be seen.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: The art of deflection. We will see in four days in St. Louis. Jason, thank you so much. And we'll take you back to Henderson as soon as we see Mr. Trump.

Meantime, as Donald Trump plans for his - what did Jason call it, a town hall practice run, we are hearing that Hillary Clinton, today, is at her Washington home for her own debate prep. We're told she has a small group of aids with her, including her campaign chairman, John Podesta. He says Clinton has experience with town halls and likes the format.

So, let's talk strategy with Susan Page, Washington bureau chief for "USA Today," CNN senior political reporter Manu Raju, who we're lucky enough to have here in New York, and Kyle Kopko, author of "The VP Advantage: How Running Mates Influence Home State Voting in Presidential Elections."

So nice to see all of you.

And ladies first. So, Susan Page, let me just begin with you with what we know. And I think the - I think the word from Dana Bash's reporting, they were calling it sort of a scrimmage, this - this real life town hall tomorrow on the trail for Donald Trump. We know Chris Christie's been coaching him. You know, yes, it's a solid move, but, i mean, correct me, but I haven't seen many real life town halls, you know, with voters across the spectrum with Donald Trump in the last 17 months. So how much will tomorrow truly help him?

SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "USA TODAY": Well, you know, it may help him some because I think you're exactly right, he has very rarely done town hall formats. Even during the New Hampshire primary, where town halls are expected for candidates to do up and down the state, Trump did very few of them. He did these big campaign rallies instead. So he does not have much experience with this format.

I think it's interesting that he's choosing to get a little practice in, and maybe that's a sign that the preparation that clearly paid off for Governor Pence is something he'd like to have a little more of this time around in the presidential debate.

BALDWIN: But isn't a piece of this, Manu, the fact that tomorrow will likely be a friendly crowd? Sunday, you will have a mix, those who love Donald Trump, those who aren't so sure and those who don't.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, that's the real challenge. And as we've seen when Donald Trump is - gets a question that he's not ready for, sometimes he speaks off the cuff, sometime he steps in it, sometimes he creates a gaffe and that's a real problem for the campaign. This is going to be the challenge for him going forward. But he can learn a lot from Mike Pence's debate performance. One thing in particular is -

BALDWIN: He can learn. Will he learn?

RAJU: Will he learn. That is the - that is the question. Not interrupting Hillary Clinton when she's responding to - when she's talking. I mean we saw - that is why - one big reason why, and probably the defining reason why Tim Kaine lost yesterday's debate. After issue after issue, constantly interrupting Mike Pence. Donald Trump did the same thing with Hillary Clinton. And Hillary Clinton won that debate because she sat back, let Donald Trump make his point and attacked Donald Trump. Turned around and attacked him. If Donald Trump can let these attacks go when Hillary Clinton lobs them at them - lobs them at him, and then turns around and delivers an effective counterpunch, not get into the tit for tat, perhaps he can win. That's one thing he can learn from Mike Pence.

BALDWIN: The format is different. And, Kyle, let's explain that to our viewers. This is, again, this Sunday in St. Louis. This is a town hall format. It's a different ballgame. And, in fact, Hillary Clinton was just talking about this last evening. Here she was.

[14:10:05] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: This will be different because this is a town hall format and so it takes a different kind of approach. You're dealing with people who I think are undecided voters who will be selected by the networks to be there. And so it's important that you listen to their questions and try your best to answer them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, Kyle, to you. I mean how will this sort of forum, when you have actual voters asking some of the questions, how - how might this be a different sort of challenge for these two?

KYLE KOPKO, CO-AUTHOR, "THE VP ADVANTAGE": Sure. They're going to have to connect with voters most importantly. And this is going to be on display for millions of people all across the United States to see. So we have the two most distrusted or unpopular major party candidates in modern political history debating on Sunday night. Are they going to be able to connect with the American people? Is someone like Donald Trump, who is, you know, a multimillionaire, maybe a billionaire, is he going to be able to connect with the average voter who has a median household income of $50,000? What about Hillary Clinton's trust issues? Is she going to be able to win over some swing voters? So this is, I think, going to be very telling how the rest of the campaign will play out over the next few weeks.

BALDWIN: Let me stay with you, Kyle, because you wrote the book, "The VP Advantage," You know, as you were watching, we were all watching last night, this debate is sort of a question of style over substance. And we make the point that Tim Kaine interrupted some 70 plus times. Do you think ultimately, you know, Americans thought he lost simply because of interruptions? Because, you know, a lot of folks said he was solid on substance, but perhaps it was the style that lost him the points?

KOPKO: Sure. I think it's a number of things. It's not just his style, and it's also Governor Pence's style as well. I think ultimately Pence just had the better debate performance. And it's also important to remember that Pence also has more experience debating as well. He has more than a decade worth of service in the U.S. House of Representatives where you also have to learn to speak on your feet pretty quickly. You have to engage in debate.

Kaine, on the other hand, his political experience is mainly in the governor's mansion, lieutenant governor's office, things like that. So he isn't used to deliberating quite in the same way. So I think that's one of the reasons why Kaine didn't do as well compared to Pence.

BALDWIN: What did you think, Manu?

PENCE: Well, you know, I think he was - Tim Kaine wasn't acting like himself in a lot of ways. He's actually a pretty friendly guy. He doesn't really deliver a lot of red meat. He's had to do that as the attack dog on the campaign trail. And it really felt that it just wasn't him yesterday and that's probably one reason why he was overly aggressive. If he'd just delivered those same attack lines, but in a different way, perhaps it would be more effective and maybe it wasn't as effective because that's not really him.

BALDWIN: Let's pivot and just talk voting in general. It's interesting, Susan, just being in Farmville yesterday and talking to folks in the central part of the state, and I was trying to be sly essentially saying, do you know who you're voting for and both folks I talked to said, "I don't like either of them. I don't know if I'm voting. I know you wrote the piece in "USA Today" in the last couple of days called, a sharpened debate, is it ethical to not vote this year for president. You talked to a lot of people. What did you find?

PAGE: Well, you know, there's a debate going on about whether turnout is going to be down this year because a lot of people see this election as a choice between the lesser of two evils. Will being - really disliking one of the candidates but not being too enthusiastic about the other one, mean that you don't bother to go to the polls. There's not a lot of history with this because we have never had presidential candidates who are quite this unpopular. But there are some studies that in Senate races that show that fear is just as big a motivator as hope. And in that way it's possible that turnout will in fact be pretty high this year.

Who votes matters, right? It doesn't matter what kind of support you have in the country. If your supporters do not go to the polls to vote for you, it doesn't count. You need to turn people out. That's been an advantage for Donald Trump up till now. His voters have been more enthusiastic. But there are some signs that Hillary Clinton has the better operation to actually get the people who are inclined to support her out to the polls.

BALDWIN: But just quickly, Susan, in your piece, you know, you noted, what was it, absentee or early voting. I mean is there any early indication that it could be high to your note on fear getting people out?

PAGE: Yes. Yes, we think 40 percent of Americans will vote before Election Day.

BALDWIN: Wow.

PAGE: And I talked to an academic who is looking at three states where we have some history in early voting. Interestingly now, these are very preliminary numbers. He said in congressional districts likely to favor Clinton, requests for absentee ballots were up compared with four years ago. And in congressional districts in these three states, the congressional districts inclined to support Trump, absentee ballot requests were down a bit.

BALDWIN: Absolutely fascinating to think 40 percent would vote ahead of time. Vote, vote, vote.

Susan, Manu, Kyle, thank you all so much.

Meantime, Bill Clinton, he is trying to walk back his comment that Obamacare is crazy. That's essentially what he said on the trail stumping for his wife yesterday. But you know what, Republicans, they're are not letting up.

[14:15:04] Also ahead, an attorney who represented dozens of banks that lent Trump money says he was worth more to them alive than dead after Trump made a massive business mistake in the '90s. Hear why.

And breaking news, evacuations underway in Florida and all along the East Coast as Hurricane Matthew barrels towards the United States. We will take you there live.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

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BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's talk about this hurricane.

Hurricane Matthew is slowly spinning toward the U.S. and officials down south are preparing for one of the most powerful storms to threaten the East Coast. Right now I can tell you that Matthew is a category three headed toward the Bahamas, but winds are so dangerously strong, the rain so heavy it could actually reemerge as a category four hurricane before making landfall along the East Coast of Florida.

Let me show you some pictures here and you can see exactly what Matthew left behind. This is Cuba from this morning. At least seven people have been killed across the Caribbean. As far as the U.S., evacuations in parts of Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, that will begin at the top of the hour.

[14:20:10] President Obama, today, warned everyone to be ready.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a serious storm. It has already hit Haiti with devastating effect. It is now in the process of moving through the Bahamas. Because it's not going to be hitting enough land, it is going to be building strength on its way to Florida. We anticipate that by tomorrow morning it will already begin to have significant effect in Florida.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We have Stephanie Elam. She is live there in Charleston, South Carolina, where lane changes out of the city are about to take effect, and meteorologist Jennifer Gray tracking the storm's path from the CNN Severe Weather Center.

But, Stephanie, let's just turn to you first.

So, what, in less than an hour, those lanes will change, so at 3:00, folks can get out of dodge, yes?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. And that's the thing, Brooke, they actually hope that you're already leaving. And we've seen some backup already here on Interstate 26. But let me just show you exactly what's going to happen here. Right here where we're standing, on this side of the freeway, this is westbound. This is get out of dodge way. This is the way you want to go right now if you are in Charleston.

The other side of the freeway, where you see it's pretty much empty, that is eastbound, going into Charleston. At 3:00 it is going to change directions and it is all, all lanes on both sides of I-26 are going to be taking people out of Charleston and into the western regions of South Carolina. They do not want people to stick around. In fact, Governor Nikki Haley saying that she wants people to leave because if they stay they put first responders at risk and so they don't want to take any chances there.

We also know that the Air Force is moving out some of their planes, moving out some of their people. In fact, as we stand here, we see some of the planes taking off, getting people out of here. We know court has been shut down. They really want people to leave. Lots of colleges already shut down as well because right here on the water in Charleston it's a wide open space for the hurricane to come in, that water to come in. It could be very dangerous. So they're asking people to not play meteorologist, to not stay here and try to figure out which path the hurricane is going to take. Get your things, get your loved ones and leave. And come 3:00 Eastern Time, all of these lanes in both directions will help people do just that.

BALDWIN: No playing meteorologist. Let's go to the real one. Jennifer Gray watching this whole thing from the CNN Weather Center.

Here's where I - what I want to know, Florida, do we know yet what part of Florida could be hit first?

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: We don't. And that's the reason for the cone of uncertainty is, it gets wider once you see Florida in the cone, and so it really could strike southern portions or even up the coast a little bit.

And let me show you the track in just a moment. Right now, 120 mile per hour winds with gusts of 145, moving to the northwest at 12. And as you said a moment ago, could actually strengthen by the time it gets to the northern Bahamas as a category four.

Now, here's the cone of uncertainty. And you can see, it stretches all the way from say Broward County, Fort Lauderdale, all the way up the coast through Jacksonville and even including Georgia, South Carolina, and North Carolina. And so if this tracks a little bit farther to the west, that's going to mean those strong category four winds pushing inland, 130 mile per hour winds possible on Friday morning. But if it tracks a little bit farther to the east, that's better news.

Now, let me show you what I'm talking about, Brooke, because the hurricane force winds are right around the center. Here's the center of that - that storm, the eye. And so the strongest winds are right around that eye wall. Hurricane-force winds in this particular storm extend about 45 miles from the center. Tropical storm force winds are going to be much more far reaching and so that means it makes all the difference in the world on where this storm tracks.

If it tracks right down this center line, hopefully it's going to be far enough offshore to where those very strong 120, 130 mile per hour winds are offshore and so we have slightly weaker winds on shore. If it tracks farther to the west, though, that's going to be bad news for much of Florida. That's where you can see those catastrophic winds pushing inland. If it tracks a little bit more to the east, that's going to be the best case scenario. That's where we're going to have maybe the hurricane winds stay offshore and the tropical storm force winds right along the coast.

So that's where the cone of uncertainty is. It gives you all the information we have. You have to prepared for the worst and hope for the best with this particular storm. But, Brooke, this is going to be the strongest storm since we've seen since 2005 when Wilma came ashore in Florida.

BALDWIN: People need to pay attention. We will stay close with both you. We'll check in with you ladies next hour. We're also talking to the mayor of Miami because I know they're shutting down schools starting tomorrow.

Thanks, ladies, very much.

Back to politics.

Just a quick reminder, we're watching and waiting for Donald Trump to step out and speak there in Henderson, Nevada, holding his first rally since that vice presidential debate last night. How will he respond and will he continue to seize upon President Bill Clinton's comments calling Obamacare, quote, "the craziest thing in the world."

[14:25:14] And next, we may not know what Donald Trump paid in taxes, but what we do know is about a big casino bet he made back in the '90s and what happened when his luck ran out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And here was his comment. "Marvin, you have no vision. This is going to be monster property."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[14:30:06] BALDWIN: We're learning new details about how Donald Trump bet big and ended up nearly a billion dollars in debt back in the late - in the '90s. It turns out Trump...