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VP Candidates Attack Clinton & Trump In Heated Debate; CNN/ORC Poll: Pence Narrowly Wins Debate; Pence Slams Clinton For Private Email Server. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired October 05, 2016 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- see more of that from him.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN THE LEAD ANCHOR: If you missed any of the debate earlier this evening, you can see it in its entirety right now.

[01:00:23] JOHN VAUSE, CNN NEWSROOM ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you for being with us. I'm John Vause.

[01:00:26] ISHA SESAY, CNN NEWSROOM ANCHOR: And I'm Isha Sesay. This is NEWSROOM L.A. We'll begin with debate night in America. In the only scheduled Vice Presidential Debate, the two candidates spent their time defending their running mates, attacking their opponents and interrupting a lot.

VAUSE: Republican Mike Pence had the herculean task of defending Donald Trump and his long, long, long, long, long list of controversial statements while Democrat Tim Kaine played the role of attack dog for Hillary Clinton.

SESAY: Our own Chris Moody joins us now from Farmville, Virginia. Chris, after the fireworks of the First Presidential Debate, expectations were lower for the VP debate. But Tim Kaine and Mike Pence clashed early and often during their 90-minute encounter.

[01:01:10] CHRIS MOODY, CNN POLITICS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Going into this debate, we saw polling that said about a third of Americans didn't know much about these candidates, had no opinion of them. So, it was really an opportunity for them to introduce themselves as the running mates of the candidates they do know, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. But those introductions were very brief. They really quickly got into the mud fight, defending both of their candidates. Tim Kaine came out swinging real hard. He clearly had studied his briefing books and his opposition research books and nails Donald Trump several times, pointing out things Donald Trump had said about minorities, about women, and challenged Mike Pence to try to respond to it. But Mike Pence didn't quite take the bait. Instead he often pivoted. And he showed himself to be quite prepared himself, and polished as well, not just defending Donald Trump, but also putting forth his own vision about the country.

SESAY: Yeah, indeed. As you say, both men forced to defend their running mates the whole time. Did either VP candidate do enough to boost their side standing in the race and blunt their opponent's momentum? I mean, that's the key question here. That is the key question. And I'm really excited to see the polling that's going to comes out over the next couple of days. Historically, the VP debates don't necessarily move the middle - don't necessarily move the needle all that much. But I think by Mike Pence, I think he really fulfilled the job he needed to do, and that was show a side of this campaign that is steady and dependable, whereas Donald Trump is a little bit more a shoot-from-the-hip kind of candidate. Although we saw Tim Kaine really coming out strong as the attack dog for Hillary Clinton against Donald Trump, I think on style, Mike Pence really responded in a way that might not necessarily hurt Trump in the short-run, but it's yet to be seen what their reaction will be as these claims are fact- checked over the next couple of days.

SESAY: Uh-hmm. Certainly the fact-checkers are going to be easy. Now, Chris, as well know, the moderator of the first Presidential Debate, Lester Holt came under fire from the Trump campaign. Elaine Quijano moderated the VP Debate. She had a tough job on her hands trying to keep these two in check. What's the view of how she fared?

MOODY: This was very difficult, especially given they were seated together at a table, a completely different setup than the debate just last week. Tim Kaine, as we mentioned, repeatedly interrupting Mike Pence, especially in the beginning, and she worked very hard to try to keep them corralled and keep them on message. Eventually, Mike Pence did the same thing to Kaine. There was - there was even times where you couldn't understand what anyone was saying because they were speaking over each other, but I think she did a fine job trying to get them back on to the issues. There were times when she would ask, let's say about Korea or nuclear issues, and they would go off completely different tangents. She often tried to get them back on track. She played a far more engaged role than the past debate. But I think that had something to do with the fact that they were all so close together at that table and not standing on the candidates on a stage and the moderator down below.

SESAY: Yeah, I think so. I think the format had a lot to do with it. Chris Moody joining us there from Virginia. Chris, appreciate it. Thank you.

MOODY: Thank you.

VAUSE: Joining us now, a Democratic strategist Dave Jacobson, and Republican consultant John Thomas. So good to have you here. Debate night would not be the same without you. OK. (INAUDIBLE) Tim Kaine, a democrat, he was on the front foot loading every answer with attacks on Donald Trump. Here's an example.

TIM KAINE, DEMOCRATIC VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump during his campaign has called Mexicans rapists and criminals. He's called women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. I don't like saying that in front of my wife and my mother. He attacked an Indiana-born federal judge and said he was unqualified to hear a federal lawsuit because his parents were Mexican. He went after John McCain, a P.O.W., and said he wasn't a hero because he had been captured. He said African-Americans are living in hell. And he perpetrated this outrageous and bigoted lie that President Obama is not a U.S. citizen. MIKE PENCE, REPUBLICAN VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He says ours is an insult-driven campaign? Did you all just hear that? Ours is an insult-driven campaign? I mean, to be honest with you, if Donald Trump had said all the things that you've said he said in the way you said he said them, he still wouldn't have a fraction of the insults that Hillary Clinton leveled when she said half of our supporters were a basket of deplorables.

VAUSE: Well, Trump did say all those things. But I can't even remember what the question was for that answer. But the problem with Kaine is it seem he was trying to stuff 50 pounds of attacks into a 10-pound bag.

[01:06:02] DAVE JACOBSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: It was the kitchen sink. Look, he was an attack dog when it came - when it came to substance and the issues and policies. I think the challenge was it came off relatively convoluted, and it wasn't really surgical or laser-focused.

VAUSE: (INAUDIBLE)

JACOBSON: It was - it was the whole kitchen sink, and I think that was the challenge. He won on the ideas, but in terms of the style and the performance, some of it got lost.

[01:06:22] JOHN THOMAS, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: I don't know that he won on ideas. I think Governor Pence made good arguments for the pro- life argument, I think he made a good change argument, quite frankly better than Donald Trump typically makes. The problem with Kaine here is he was over-prepared.

SESAY: Yeah.

THOMAS: He came in there and you could see the froth that he was looking to unload.

SESAY: And to that point, our CNN-ORC instant poll said Mike Pence was the winner of the debate. I mean, we need - we need to be clear that the sample of the debate which was just 41 percent Democratic, 30 percent Republican, but they gave to it Pence, because to your point, he had the attack dog role front of mind, but it just seemed to overwhelm him.

THOMAS: And also, you saw even from the opening statements, Kaine went on the attack. It's interesting, if we didn't know what was actually going on in the polls from the top of the ticket, you would have guessed that Hillary Clinton was running behind after tonight the way Kaine was so desperately attacking Trump from the offset. And then at the close, it just -- Pence took control early and maintained it throughout the evening.

VAUSE: OK. Unlike last week's debate, Pence took about 27 minutes by my count to bring up Hillary Clinton's e-mails.

PENCE: Hillary Clinton had a private server in her home that had classified information on it about drone strikes, e-mails from the President of the United States of America were on there. Her private server was subject to being hacked by foreign --

ELAINE QUIJANO, CBS NEWS REPORTER, DEBATE MODERATOR: Governor, I'd like to ask you about Syria.

PENCE: We could put -- we could put cybersecurity first if we just make sure the next Secretary of State doesn't (INAUDIBLE) private server.

QUIJANO: Governor, you have now had a minute. 250,000 -

KAINE: A full investigation -

VAUSE: That's how you do a pivot. So, John, what do you do, you get Donald Trump and you sit him down, and you say, "Listen, that's how you do it the next week. Does he get like a battlefield promotion to being Donald Trump's debate coach?

THOMAS: Well, he should. I mean, Pence showed you how it's done. Here's the thing. Pence has a lot more experience than Donald Trump. Pence was a talk radio host for five years. He just has experience doing this, and you could see it, he always went back to message. The difference was Trump took the bait from Hillary Clinton and got defensive. Kaine kept trying to bait Pence, but Pence wasn't having any of it.

SESAY: And that was my question. Dave, to you, was it bad bait or was it just a Pence, you know, is just very, very smooth and very well prepared? Did he go after him with the wrong gambit?

JACOBSON: Look, Pence threw out every attack that Donald Trump should have a couple of days ago at the first presidential debate. And I think it underscores the fact that this is a guy who's disciplined. He knows what his message is and he hones in on that, unlike Donald Trump who's erratic, who's thin-skinned, and if somebody gets under that skin, he's going to blow up like a crazy man. And that's what we saw in the first debate. The question is, like, "What Donald Trump do we get five days from now? Does he come off more like Mike Pence did tonight, or do we get that same sort of persona that we saw in the first debate?"

VAUSE: OK. Let's stick with Tim Kaine in his role as attack dog or maybe even rabid pit bull. This is one of those moments.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

KAINE: Ronald Reagan said something really interesting about nuclear proliferation back in the 1980s. He said the problem with nuclear proliferation is that some fool or maniac could trigger a catastrophic event. And I think that's who Governor Pence's running mate is, exactly --

PENCE: Oh, come on.

KAINE: -- who President Reagan warned us about.

PENCE: Senator, that was even beneath you and Hillary Clinton. And that's pretty low.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

VAUSE: OK. So, John, you know, you say he didn't take the bait, but it also seemed to a lot of people that Pence just refused to defend Trump, because in some ways it was indefensible, the stuff that Trump has said.

THOMAS: And he was dealt a difficult task, because, you know, addressing Trump's quotes, if you kept taking that bait, that's all you're going to do the whole night, is defend those quotes. Pence would dismiss it and get back to the message that he knew Trump needed to be delivered.

JACOBSON: But I think the other question is like, look, he knows that some of these issues are not defensible, and so, like, rather than go and defend him, if he wants to have future presidential aspirations, like, do you go the route of defending Donald Trump to your death, or do you try to pivot and talk about some other issue to keep options open for the future, right? I think that's the (INAUDIBLE)

VAUSE: Clearly the (INAUDIBLE)

SESAY: Yeah.

JACOBSON: Also, I think he realizes if we're talking about Hillary Clinton and her problems, we - our team wins. If Donald Trump and Mike Pence are defending Donald Trump all the time, he's going to lose.

SESAY: Surely that, but any lines emerge during this VP Debate that will stick? Anything that emerge in your mind that you thought, "Oh, that's a winning line that we're going to see -

VAUSE: The one we'd be talking about every conversation (INAUDIBLE)

SESAY: Exactly.

JACOBSON: Look, I think the hire/fire dynamic actually will play well. And I think Donald - that's something that is going to be a preview of what you're going to see in future conversations that Hillary Clinton has and Tim Kaine has in the coming days.

THOMAS: I think it's just the broader positive message that Pence laid out, which is, look, we need a change in direction, and we can't do it with the same old politicians.

VAUSE: You know, it was surprising how much Russia came up, how much Vladimir Putin came up. Pence differed with Donald Trump because he seems to be living in a different universe than Donald Trump when it comes to this. He called Putin a small bullying leader. And also in Syria, he even suggested the direct use of military force.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

PENCE: The provocations by Russia need to be met with American strength. And if - and if Russia chooses to be involved and continue, I should say, to be involved in this barbaric attack on civilians in Aleppo, the United States of America should be prepared to use military force to strike military targets of the Assad regime, to prevent them from this humanitarian crisis that is taking place in Aleppo.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

VAUSE: You know, that (INAUDIBLE) back, John, because it seemed to me that he was conflating the Syrian conflict and attacks on regime targets with attacks on Russian targets, sort of suggesting a direct military confrontation with the Russians.

THOMAS: Yeah, we'll see. I think that question is not going to die tonight. I think it's going to go on and on.

VAUSE: Right.

THOMAS: I think we're going to see it on Sunday come back.

JACOBSON: When I think that was an effort to really calm the nerves to some of these establishment republicans who are like turned off with Donald Trump's fascination and flirtation with Vladimir Putin.

SESAY: That was a moment of substance, right? That was one of his most -

THOMAS: No, precisely.

SESAY: But does it matter? I mean, in a VP Debate?

THOMAS: I don't think -- and you just said at a VP Debate. I mean, look, Pence won tonight. I think most people would agree with that, but is it going to move the needle?

SESAY: Yeah.

THOMAS: I don't think so. It's - my guess, get expectations and anticipation for Sunday night in the art of the comeback. Can that happen?

VAUSE: Well, he opened the door for Trump to come back next week, right? It was do no harm, don't screw up, do a good job.

THOMAS: Right.

VAUSE: OK. Another moment, a meaningful moment in the debate came to the discussion about abortion. But then again, the issue turned back to some past statements made by Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

KAINE: But the last thing, the very last thing the government should do is have laws that would punish women who make reproductive choices. And that is the fundamental difference between a Clinton/Kaine ticket and a Trump/Pence ticket that wants to punish women who (INAUDIBLE) PENCE: It's really not. Donald Trump and I, we'd never support

legislation that punished women who made the heart-breaking choice to end a pregnancy.

KAINE: Then why did Donald Trump say that?

PENCE: He just never will.

KAINE: Why did he say that?

PENCE: Well, look, it's - look, he's not a polished politician like you and Hillary Clinton.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

VAUSE: And one thing that really surprised me just to segway into this is that Kaine didn't go after Pence on his very conservative views on abortion and he may. He didn't go after him on his very conservative stance on LBGT laws - one of those discriminatory LBGT laws in the country. Why was that left on the table?

JACOBSON: I think because this is a prosecution against Donald Trump. He's the toxic candidate, he's the one who has said outlandish, outrageous things like punishing a woman for having an abortion. I mean, I think that's one of the most effective attacks that Hillary and Tim Kaine can sort of throw at Donald Trump is using his own words against him.

SESAY: Let me ask you this, as we talk about the way Pence handled the situation tonight. To many, he was calm, he was fluent in the - in the issues. Whether he was telling the truth or not, he appeared fluent. Anyone out there do you - do you think there's anyone out there who took a look at him, and thought, "Well, you know, Donald Trump may be erratic. You may never know what you're going to get, but with him around, maybe he's more palatable. I'm going to cast my vote for Trump." Do you think he did that?

THOMAS: I do. In fact, anecdotally, I received multiple text messages from NeverTrumpers after the debate going, "Pence calmed my nerves and reaffirmed to me why Clinton would be so disastrous to our conservative principles. Ugh, I'm going to cast my vote for Trump." At least 10 messages from friends. So, I think that might have worked tonight.

VAUSE: And so, with that in mind, Dave, if you look at the job that Kaine had to play, he didn't necessarily have to win the debate, he was a team member, he got bloody, he got in there, he got roughed up, and he went after Trump in a big way. He seemed to be a team player tonight, if you like.

JACOBSON: A team player and attack dog who did no harm, who raised issues that he wanted to be part of the dialogue as we get closer to the Sunday debate.

THOMAS: I think he looked nasty, he interrupted over 70 times. I just don't think that the attack dog that he was hired to be, I just don't think he came off well.

VAUSE: Yes. But they're not going to vote for him, they're going to vote for Clinton.

THOMAS: Yeah. But it might feed into the narrative that Pence is saying that Clinton is just so nasty.

SESAY: So, not a good (INAUDIBLE)

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: It's a hard sale with Donald Trump at the top of your ticket. I'll call you on that one. I was talking -

(CROSSTALK)

JACOBSON: Fact-checker.

SESAY: Yeah.

VAUSE: Stick around because there's more politics, a lot more to get to with the day's politics as well. Thank you.

JACOBSON: Appreciate it.

SESAY: Alright. Time for a quick break. The fiercest storm to hit Haiti in 50 years is now making landfall in Cuba. We're tracking Hurricane Matthew next on NEWSROOM L.A.

VAUSE: Also ahead, the President of the Philippines on another tirade against the U.S. saying Barack Obama can go to H-E-Hockey sticks, but he didn't say it like that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[01:18:06] DON RIDDELL, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Hey, I'm Don Riddell with your CNN "WORLD SPORT" Headlines. Maria Sharapova says she is counting down the days until she's allowed back on a tennis court after learning on Tuesday that her two-year drug ban was reduced by nine months and can return to play again on April 25th. Sharapova had been legally taking Meldonium before it was added to the ban list on New Year's Day. She said she hadn't realized and therefore failed the test at the Australian Open and was banned in June. Court of Arbitration for Sport ruled that she bore some degree of responsibility, but ultimately concluded that she wasn't trying to cheat.

RIDDELL: FIFA's new president Gianni Infantino has proposed that the World Cup should be expanded from 32 teams to a whopping 48. Infantino originally mooted a 40-team tournament when he was running for the top job in world football. He now says that you need as many as 48 to make it work. Any such decision won't be made until January, and if approved, nothing would actually change until the World Cup in 2026.

Arnold Palmer was laid to rest in a private family funeral last week. But on Tuesday, some of the sport's biggest names gathered to honor him at a memorial service in Pennsylvania. Rickie Fowler arrived clutching the Ryder Cup. Phil Mickelson, Ernie Els and Annika Sorenstam were also in attendance. And one of his greatest rivals and best friends, Jack Nicklaus, delivered an emotional tribute. That is a quick look at your sports headlines. I'm Don Riddell.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[01:19:50] VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. Hurricane Matthew is pummeling Cuba after making a second landfall, just hours ago. It's the first hurricane to hit Cuba since 2012, and could dump up to 50 centimeters of rain.

[01:20:01] SESAY: The Category 4 storm first made landfall early Tuesday in Western Haiti. At least seven people have been killed, and the flooding and damage are widespread. And this, this is a country that still suffering after the deadly earthquake in 2010 and the cholera outbreak.

VAUSE: Meteorologist Pedram Javaheri joins us now with more on the storm, where it is and where it is heading. And I guess, how much longer is this storm going to maintain this intensity?

[01:20:25] PEDRAM JAVAHERI, CNN METEOROLOGIST ANCHOR: You know, that's a great question, and it's really funny you asked that, John, because just about 30 seconds ago, my producer Michael Guy and I were talking about precisely that. This storm system has kept this intensity of Category 4 or Category 5 for over 100 hours that is going back to last Friday. You take every single hurricane since the year 2008 in the Atlantic Ocean, the intensities for all of them put together have not been retained for over 100 hours as this particular storm Matthew, has a really an ominous setup for how long it's been able to stay this strong. And what it has done is essentially stay over warm water. Any landfall it made like Western Haiti, it made it on the western edge of the tip there, so it really didn't disintegrate the storm much. And then the eastern edge of Cuba there, also just brushing the coast. So that is precisely where it's located at this hour. It is a Category 4 storm system. And really not forecast to weaken much over the next several days.

I want to show you the warnings that are in place. The hurricane warnings stretching not only out of Cuba all the way into the Bahamas Island Archipelago, home to some 700 islands. And something worth noting with these islands, of course, and you work your way into Florida. Now, we have hurricane warnings in place for places like Fort Lauderdale down towards West Palm Beach as well. But look at this, 3 to 4.5 meter storm surge for an island that is literally like a pancake. I want to lay a land here for the Bahamas Islands, because when you look at this particular region, the storm surge is the main concern. The beaches here very shallow, very gradual rise in the water, that allows everything to pile up and really pummel the coastal communities. I mean, that is predominantly the major, major concern for the Bahamas as we go in from Thursday into Friday across this region. So when you take a look at the forecast progression, the storm will actually slow down just a little bit as it moves over the Bahamas come Wednesday afternoon into Thursday. Eventually, it'll push off towards the Eastern seaboard of the United States. The coast of Florida, really going to be in close proximity to the storm system. And I want to show you exactly what we think will happen here as come Thursday. That's Nassau right here, home to 70 percent of the population of the Bahamas, a quarter of a million people live here. The forecast at this point takes it a Category 4 right through Nassau sometime Thursday into Friday morning. And then as you transition into Friday night, the storm could quickly park off the South Carolina coastline. So a lot - a lot of people really could be impacted by this major, major hurricane over the next couple of days, guys.

SESAY: Uh-hmm. Matthew still hanging around and causing problems.

VAUSE: OK. Pedram, thank you.

SESAY: Thank you.

JAVAHERI: Thank you.

SESAY: Now, the President of the Philippines says, "Barack Obama can go to hell." President Rodrigo Duterte is upset over America's criticism of his deadly anti-drug campaign. He said he's willing to cut ties with the U.S. in favor of Russia and China.

VAUSE: U.S. Officials say Mr. Duterte's tirade conflicts the warm relationship between the two countries. Mr. Duterte there clearly isn't feeling the warmth.

RODRIGO DUTERTE, PRESIDENT OF THE PHILIPPINES:

TEXT: "Instead of helping us, the first to hit back was the State Department. So you can go to hell. Mr Obama, you can go to hell. You better choose purgatory."

VAUSE: The caustic remarks came just as the U.S. and the Philippines started joint military exercises.

SESAY: Well, let's bring in Brad Adams, Executive Director of Human Rights Watch. He joins us now from Berkeley, California. Brad, good to have you with us once again. We have that as a backdrop, these comments made by Duterte in recent days. But I want to turn our attention to really the source of what seems to be the aggravation, the criticism he's faced for the thousands of people who've been killed since he came to power back in July. The thousands who've died in his war on drugs, so does Leila de Lima, head of the Senate Justice Committee is leading the investigation into the rising death toll. And she said this recently, "What is particularly worrisome is that the campaign against drugs seems to be an excuse for some, may I just emphasize some, law enforcers and other vigilantes to commit murder with impunity." Is that what is happening here, Brad, in your view? [01:25:24] BRAD ADAMS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: Oh, that's exactly what's happening. By the government's own count, more than 3,000 people have been killed since Duterte came to power. The police themselves say they've killed more than 1,200 and they blame the rest on vigilantes or unknown people. And basically, the police and other officials are drawing up lists of people they think are involved in the drug trade. And they're doing things like surrounding their houses, clearing out neighbors, and then pulling people out of the house, so they think are responsible and acting as judge, jury and executioner on the spot, and just shooting them. In many cases, they're putting signs next to the corpses. Apparently, some bodies -- and this is all exactly what Duterte said he would do. So this is not a big mystery. Duterte has said he will kill drug smugglers, drug dealers, drug users. He said last week that he would be happy to slaughter 3 million in comparing himself to what Hitler did to the Jews.

SESAY: So, it appears that when the U.S. criticizes him, when the United Nations expresses its concerns, it appears to embolden Duterte further. So, how should the international community deal with this situation?

ADAMS: I don't think it does embolden him, frankly. I think he's just trying to divert attention. He's picking a fight with the U.S. because -- these killings. He's picked a fight with European Union, and he started changing the subject and talking about U.S.-Philippine Military ties. But I don't think that the Philippines really plans to change its military alliances. I think the army would not be happy about that. And Duterte often walks back his very brash and overblown comments. So I think he's feeling the pressure. I think what we're seeing is that the concern that's being expressed internationally is having an impact. I think that the number of killings is likely to decrease as a result. I kind of expect Duterte sometime soon to say he's succeeded in his war on drugs and to slow down the pace of killings. But that will not help victims and their families. There are thousands of people who have been killed, and these are just government figures. We expect that there probably are more people who have been killed. And they will - they will need their day in court and they will need justice.

SESAY: I think the issue that bewilders a lot of people is the fact that while there's international concern -- condemnation, there in the Philippines, his standing, his popularity is still pretty high. So, the question has to be, are Filipinos willing to sacrifice law and order, they're willing to sacrifice the rule of law for drug-free safer streets? Does that explain the fact that he still has such high popularity numbers there in the country?

ADAMS: I think you make a good point. When somebody comes in and says, "I'm going to save you," and then appears to be trying to save the people who - say, who he thinks needs to be saved and is taking strong measures, often people respond. Remember, Duterte was elected with less than 40 percent of the vote. His approval ratings have been up in the 70s and 80s, because he seems to be doing what previous governments didn't. But at the same time, many people are starting to question his tactics. And I think that this is going to be an unpredictable pendular swing. His approval ratings have gone up. They're going to start come down because frankly, what he's doing is not going to solve the country's drug problem. What the country needs is drug treatment facilities, they need public education about the use of drugs, they need health facilities. This needs to be treated as a health problem, and people are slowly but surely coming to realize that.

SESAY: We shall watch the situation closely. Brad Adams, we appreciate you joining us. Brad Adams with Human Rights Watch. Thank you so much.

ADAMS: Thank you.

VAUSE: And with that, we'll take a short break. And when we come back, we will have much more on the U.S. Vice Presidential Debate. We'll also take a closer look at what the top of the ticket has been doing on the campaign trail.

SESAY: Including a moment between Hillary Clinton and the 15-year-old girl and the impact of Donald Trump's remarks about women.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN HOST: Welcome back, everybody.

Tim Kaine and Mike Pence faced off Tuesday in the only vice presidential debate of this U.S. election. It was filled with interruptions, both men defending their party's presidential candidates.

ISHA SESAY, CNN HOST: Democrat Kaine hammered Donald Trump's temperament. Republican Pence hit Hillary Clinton's family foundation. A CNN/ORC instant poll finds most people think Pence was a winner, 48 percent to 42 percent.

VAUSE: Joining us now, CNN's senior reporter for media and politics, Dylan Byers.

Dylan, thank you for being with us.

SESAY: Thank you for staying up.

DYLAN BYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you for having me.

VAUSE: It was really interesting tonight that Pence, either he refused to take the bait or he just refused to outright to defend Donald Trump --

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: -- statements and positions that Trump had taken. But the moments that he did, he just seemed to deny what was blatantly true, like this one moment here. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM KAINE (D), VA: Donald Trump believes that the world will be safer if more nations have nuclear weapons. He's said Saudi Arabia should get them, Japan should get them, Korea should get them.

And when he was confronted with this and told, wait a minute, terrorists could get those, proliferation could lead to nuclear war, here's what Donald Trump said and I quote: "Go ahead, folks, enjoy yourselves."

I'd love to hear Governor Pence tell me what's so enjoyable or comical about nuclear war.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CBS NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Governor Pence?

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), IND.: Did you work on that one a long time?

Because that had a lot of really creative lines in it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And then Pence went on to say he never said it. But we know that he said it. It's clearly -- you know, it's on the record. And I mean this --

(EMERGENCY ALERT SYSTEM TEST)

[01:35:00]

(EMERGENCY ALERT SYSTEM TEST)

VAUSE: -- there was this line.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAINE: When Donald Trump says women should be punished or Mexicans are rapists and criminals --

(CROSSTALK)

PENCE: I'm telling you --

KAINE: -- or John McCain is not a hero, he is showing you who he is.

PENCE: Senator, you've whipped out that Mexican thing again. He -- look --

KAINE: Can you defend it?

PENCE: There are criminal aliens in this country, Tim, who have come into this country illegally who are perpetrating violence and taking American lives.

KAINE: You want to -- you want to use a big broad brush against Mexicans on that? PENCE: He also said and many of them are good people. You keep leaving that out of your quote. And if you want me to go there, I'll go there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: OK. We played a little too much.

But, clearly, it was "that Mexican thing." And you got to hand to it the Clinton campaign. They've registered thatmexicanthing.com, singled that out, redirects it to the Clinton campaign.

BYERS: It's a smart and obviously -- you have to highlight something like this.

On the one hand, it's extremely humorous and we won't go into all the reasons why that is.

And then, two, it's actually serious as well. There is so much fodder for the Clinton campaign to deal with when it comes to Donald Trump. The number one thing they have been hammering home on is the insensitive -- even more than the tax returns, the insensitive statements that he has made towards various groups.

And the fact that Mike Pence dismissed that as, oh, you just whipped out that Mexican thing again, is that -- in addition to all that is really comical about all this, there is actually something serious here, which is the inability of the Trump campaign, of both candidates, to take seriously how they deal with minorities, how they speak about minorities.

VAUSE: A lot more to get to. So come back next hour.

SESAY: Don't go to bed just yet.

BYERS: I will stay.

VAUSE: Dylan, thank you. You're coming back next hour.

We're going to take a short break here. A lot more on the election campaign, including what the top of the ticket has been doing over the last 24 hours.

SESAY: Stay with us.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:40:00]

SESAY: Welcome back, everyone. The U.S. vice presidential candidates clash in their only debate Tuesday night. And they spent much of their time defending their running mates.

VAUSE: Meantime, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have been hammering each other on the campaign trail. Trump called Clinton a criminal over her e-mail scandal and is promising a much stronger Justice Department if he is elected.

SESAY: Clinton, meanwhile, has gone off of Trump's unflattering comments about women and his unwillingness to release his tax records.

VAUSE: Joining us once again, Democratic strategist Dave Jacobson, Republican consultant John Thomas, to talk about the top of the ticket.

OK, this is a powerful moment for Hillary Clinton today. She was on the campaign trail. A teenaged girl, I think she's 15 years old. She asked her how to undo the damage caused by the comments that Donald Trump has made about women and their looks. This is how Clinton replied.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My opponent insulted Miss Universe.

I mean, how do you get more acclaimed than that?

But it wasn't good enough. So we can't take any of this seriously anymore. We need to laugh at it. We need to refute it. We need to ignore it. And we need to stand up to it.

And especially the bullying. There are too many young women online who are being bullied about how they look.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: OK. The campaign says the questions weren't (INAUDIBLE). It was completely natural. Not a chance.

(LAUGHTER)

VAUSE: -- exactly. But that --

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: -- put that aside, does this, Dave, in many ways, does this moment sum up Donald Trump's women problem?

DAVE JACOBSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, it sums up the shift that we've seen over the last week since the last debate. It was Donald Trump who fanned the flames with those 3:00 am tweets talking about Miss Universe.

I mean, this is a major problem for Donald Trump. It's why he's got a ceiling in this race at 42 percent to 44 percent. He hasn't been able to break through that ceiling because he is not appealing to white suburban women in places like Cleveland or Philadelphia. That's a major challenge for him.

And with these belittling comments or these outrageous comments against women, they're the majority of the electorate. And if you can't appeal to them, you ain't going to be the next president.

SESAY: John, how do you deal with this issue, especially when you have it crystallized by a 15-year old?

How does the Trump campaign come back?

JOHN THOMAS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It's hard. You can't make this race about things Donald Trump said in the past. Donald Trump has to make this race about Hillary Clinton and the direction of the country and ask people if they want a change in direction. You have to -- just like Pence showed it well tonight. You can't talk about that. You've got to move forward.

VAUSE: Not an entirely bad day for Trump. He did get a gift from the former president, Bill Clinton, about ObamaCare. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're all of a sudden, 25 million more people will have health care. And then people are out busting it at sometimes 60 hours a week, wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: It is a little hard to hear. But basically he's saying about your premiums going up, it's the craziest thing in the world. OK. So that was a softball. Here is the swing for Trump and it's out of the park. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: President Bill Clinton came out and told the truth about ObamaCare. This was yesterday. He's absolutely trashed President Obama's signature legislation.

Remember, Hillary Clinton called ObamaCare one of the greatest accomplishments of President Obama, of the Democratic Party and of our country. Give me a break.

[01:45:00]

VAUSE: Dave, what is going on with the former president?

JACOBSON: #unforcederror.

(LAUGHTER)

JACOBSON: President Bill Clinton going rogue.

No comment.

THOMAS: Well, the fact is Clinton isn't as slick as he used to be. In 2008 -- VAUSE: Slick Willie --

THOMAS: -- he is not?

No. In 2008, when Hillary Clinton's campaign was imploding, they sent him out on the back of a pickup truck and he was a gaffe machine.

SESAY: No more of that.

THOMAS: They kept him largely under wraps. And so I would recommend they do that again.

VAUSE: Good advice from a campaign manager.

Also today, we saw Trump -- to your point, I think, earlier -- Trump back on message. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Clinton can't talk about real problems facing our country because she's the one who helped create all of those problems in the first place. They're not going to be able to do anything about it. To hide her corruption, she deleted 33,000 e-mails after getting a congressional subpoena.

Wow. How she got away with that one.

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(WEATHER REPORT)

[01:50:00]

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VAUSE: Activists in Syria say airstrikes have killed at least 20 people in rebel-held Eastern Aleppo over the last 24 hours. Syrian and Russian warplanes have been attacking the city relentlessly since the ceasefire fell apart two weeks ago.

SESAY: There are casualties on both sides. Syrian state media reports rebels shelled government-held neighborhoods on Tuesday, killing at least six people. The U.S. is defending its decision to suspend talks with Russia over the crisis.

Washington accuses Moscow of failing to uphold the cease-fire by deliberately targeting civilians.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: You can't choose your own facts. And the facts are that the Russian military is aiding the Assad regime as it continues this devastating siege on Aleppo and continuing to kill innocent people, who are simply trying to live a better life. (END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: The Russian foreign ministry again blamed the U.S. for the ceasefire collapse. It accused Washington of protecting the Al-Nusra terrorist group.

It said, "The United States has never put real pressure on Jabhat Al- Nusra. It has done nothing to separate the moderate opposition from Al-Nusra or to stop the front's bloody attacks and, at the same time, Washington actively prevented Russia from stopping these attacks."

Joining me now from Anaheim in California is Hassan Twiet. He is president of the Syrian American Council's Los Angeles chapter.

Hassan, thank you for being with us. Just on that last point, just to be clear, Al-Nusra says it severed ties with Al Qaeda back in July. They've changed their name.

But from your understanding of the situation in Syria, did the United States put in a good faith effort to try and separate the moderate rebels from Al-Nusra?

Because that was one of the conditions of the ceasefire.

HASSAN TWIET, SYRIAN AMERICAN COUNCIL: Yes, they did. And thank you for having me. Yes, they did. The United States their best effort to distinguish the bad people from the moderate people. And they tried to assist.

Unfortunately, the Russians, anybody is against the governments, they consider them as a terrorist. So it's anybody. It doesn't matter who, what their affiliation is. No matter what, if they are standing against Assad or a change of the regimes, they consider them as a terrorism.

And unfortunately that's why they are bombing the civilian and they're bombing hospital, they're bombing schools and they're bombing markets. I mean, so far since 12 months into this one here since Russia got into the Syria and assisting the Assad, they killed almost about 12,000 people.

And most of these are actually -- it's 600 of them are children under the age of 5 years.

VAUSE: Now there is this real outrage coming from the U.S. secretary of state, John Kerry. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Together the Syrian regime and Russia seem to have rejected diplomacy and furtherance of trying to pursue a military victory, over the broken bodies, the bombed-out hospitals, the traumatized children of a long suffering land.

People who are serious about making peace behave differently from the way Russia has chosen to behave. (END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Do you think Russia and the Syrian regime were ever interested in diplomacy?

TWIET: No. The only language they understand is really obstructions of justice and democracy. And we know the history of Russia, what they did --

[01:55:00]

TWIET: -- in many, many part of the world. They never brought peace, democracy in any country. All they did is devastations.

So, unfortunately, this is the only language they understand, is the force. And that's why we see a lot of devastations. We have not seen this devastation in Syria or any part of the world since World War I or World War II.

It is very savage regime. And the Russian government, they are actually propping up the Assad in any way possible. They use all kind of weapons that is prohibited internationally.

And, unfortunately, the inaction of the Obama administration is leading more devastation. So we ask the Obama administration to really put their -- put in actions and put some force after their word.

You know, we -- the Obama administration said so many time there is going to be a red line. And Assad must then step down. But there is absolutely no actions.

VAUSE: OK, Hassan (ph), we'll leave it there. But point well taken. Appreciate you being with us.

(CROSSTALK)

TWIET: Thank you very much for having me.

VAUSE: -- Syrian American Council.

Thank you, sir.

SESAY: Well, you are watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm Isha Sesay.

VAUSE: And I'm John Vause. Back with another hour of news right after this.

You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles.