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Donald Trump's Taped Comments on Women Draws Controversy; Prominent Republicans Rescinding Endorsements of Donald Trump for President; Donald Trump Reportedly Refusing to Drop Out of Presidential Race. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired October 08, 2016 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:00:45] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right, hello again, thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield live from Washington University. We have got a lot of action here because we're trying to mike up our guests and everything. And we've got an audience of Washington University's freshman, juniors, and seniors, and sophomores in the house.
All right, we've got so much to talk about because we are talking about one day away from the presidential debate tomorrow. And, of course, everyone, whether it be on campus and beyond is talking about Donald Trump and how he will survive the fallout from the 2005 video where he made lewd and sexually explicit comments about women.
A lot of top Republicans are calling for the RNC to dump Trump. Senators John Thune of South Dakota, Mike Crappo from Idaho, Virginia Barbara Comstock and Congressman Jason Chaffetz of Utah, Governor Gary Herbert of Utah, John Kasich of Ohio, and New York governor George Pataki just to name a few.
Even Republican vice presidential candidate Mike Pence voicing his displeasure over Trump's comments. He said in this statement, quote, "As a husband and father, I was offended by the words and actions described by Donald Trump in the 11-year-old video released yesterday. I do not condone his remarks and cannot defend them. I am grateful that he has expressed remorse and apologized to the American people. We pray for his family and look forward to the opportunity he has to show what is in his heart when he goes before the nation tomorrow night." That from Donald Trump's running mate Mike Pence. Pence was supposedly to be at a rally thrown by House Speaker Paul Ryan in Wisconsin. But Mike Pence pulled out of that. He canceled.
We're going to take you live, you see the live pictures right now. We're going to take you there as soon as someone takes to the podium in just a few moments.
Meantime CNN national correspondent Jason Carroll is there. And he heads up our team coverage along with CNN correspondent Sunlen Serfaty with me here in St. Louis, and national politics reporter M.J. Lee at Trump Tower in New York.
So the calls for dumping Trump coming just hours after that video surfaced of Trump making sexually explicit and vulgar comments about women. His microphone was on during an unaired taping of "Access Hollywood" in 2005. And we do warn you that the language is extremely graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I moved on her actually. You know, she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her and I failed. I'll admit it. And I did try and -- her. She was married.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: This was, and I moved on her very heavily. I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said I'll show you where there's some nice furniture. I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn't get there. And she was married. And all of a sudden I see her, she's got the big phony tits and everything. She's totally changed her look.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's your girl's hot as -- in the purple.
TRUMP: Whoa! Whoa!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, the Donald is good. Oh, my man. You got to look when -- give me the thumbs up.
TRUMP: You are a --
Maybe it's a different one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Better not be the -- no, it's her.
TRUMP: Yes, that's her with the gold. I got to use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. I'm automatically attracted to beautiful women. I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet.
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: And when they're a star they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the --
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Do anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The legs, all I can see is the legs.
TRUMP: It looks good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, shorty.
TRUMP: Nice legs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the way. That's good legs. Go ahead.
TRUMP: It's always good if you don't fall out of the bus like Ford, Gerald Ford, remember?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down below. Pull the handle.
[14:05:00] TRUMP: Hello, how are you? Hi. Nice to see you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Trump, how are you.
TRUMP: Terrific, terrific. You know Billy Bush?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice to see you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm doing very well, thank you. Are you ready to be a soap star?
TRUMP: We are ready. Let's go. Make me a soap star.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about a hug for the Donald? He just got off the bus.
TRUMP: Absolutely. Melania said this was OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There we go. Excellent. You've got a nice co- star here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, absolutely.
TRUMP: After you.
Come on, Billy, don't be shy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as a beautiful woman shows up, this always happens.
TRUMP: Get over here, Billy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm sorry, come here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let the little guy in here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, let the little guy in. How do you feel now, better?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's hard to walk next to a guy like this. You get in the middle.
TRUMP: That's better.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is much better.
TRUMP: That's better.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you had to choose honestly between one of us, me or the Donald.
TRUMP: That's tough competition.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Serious you had to take one us as a date.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have to take the fifth on that one. I'll take both.
TRUMP: Which way?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Make a right. Here we go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here he goes. I'm going to leave you here. Here's my microphone.
TRUMP: OK. Oh, you're finished?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're my man? I'm going to do our show.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want to reset?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: That was the tape that's now set off a firestorm. Trump did respond by posting a defiant apology on Facebook.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Anyone who knows me knows these words don't reflect who I am. I said it, I was wrong, and I apologize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: CNN's Jason Carroll is outside the event in Elkhorn, Wisconsin, where Paul Ryan, House speaker, is expected to speak later on this hour. Jason, Donald Trump was supposed to attend and then it was Mike Pence who would attend in his place, and now neither one will be there. So Jason, what's going on there, and what's the expectation of how this rally will unfold?
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A couple of things. A lot of disappointment here in the crowd. I've spoken to a number of people who were hoping to see Donald Trump. You've got Donald Trump essentially disinvited. You've got Mike Pence who decides to be a no show at the last minute. So you have a lot of disappointments.
I spoke to one GOP operative in Ohio who explained the situation to me this way. He called it, quote, "a mess." He said at this point, he says Donald Trump should step down. But as you know, Fredricka, at this point Donald Trump showing no indication he intends to step down, telling "the Washington Post," quote, "I'm not quitting. I have tremendous support." So where does that leave things? Right now you've got a number of GOP leaders who are stepping forward and condemning Donald Trump's remarks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JASON CHAFFETZ, (R) UTAH: I'm out. I can no longer endorse Donald Trump for president. There's no possible way I vote for Hillary Clinton. But these are abhorrent. They are wrong. To use a baseball metaphor, I got to call balls and strikes the way I see them. And my wife, Julie and I, we have a 15-year-old daughter. Do you think I can look her in the eye and tell her that I endorsed Trump for president when he acts like this?
And his apology? That was no apology. That was an apology for getting caught. To say that Bill Clinton did it and did it worse, I mean, that should have been his first clue that it was the wrong behavior. I'm not going to put my good name and reputation and my family behind Donald Trump for president when he acts like this. I just can't do it.
MITT ROMNEY, FORMER GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I was offended and dismayed by what was said and done by Mr. Trump. I think it's degrading to our women, to our daughters, our granddaughters, to future generations. And I dearly hope that we will come together as a nation and stand as firmly as we possibly can for the principles that have made us the shining city on a hill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: Paul Ryan also releasing a statement about Trump's comments, saying the following, "I am sickened by what I heard today." He released the statement yesterday, saying that "Women are to be championed and revered, not objectified." But Paul Ryan stopped short of pulling his endorsement of Donald Trump or calling for him to step down. But a number of GOP leaders have can come forward, saying it is time for Donald Trump to step down.
One of them, Senator John Thune from South Dakota saying the following, saying "Donald Trump should withdraw and Mike Pence should be our nominee effective immediately." I spoke to a source within Paul Ryan's camp who tells me that when he takes the stage out here, Fredricka, expect him basically to rally the base. The source told me, expect no fireworks when he takes the stage just a few moments from now.
And when it comes to the base, Fredricka, I have spoken to a number of women out in the audience about Donald Trump's comments. All of those who I spoke to identified themselves as Donald Trump diehard supporters. They say they accept Donald Trump's apology. One of the women telling me those in glass houses, she said, should not throw stones, of course referring to the Clinton camp. But when it comes to the base, that's not what Donald Trump has to worry about at this point. He has got to worry about beyond the base. Fredricka?
WHITFIELD: Interesting. So people there letting you know that they are there in full support of Donald Trump, their positions, their opinions are not being swayed by the release of the 2005 tape. Thank you so much, Jason Carroll.
Meantime, we have talked about the sentiment coming from many. You heard Senator John Thune, Kelly Ayotte, the list goes on. And now according to Dana Bash and her reporting, she talked with an RNC committeeman who will not name but says he was never a -- he or she was never a Trump fan, but, I'm quoting now, "I think the question will be whether Pence withdraws from the ticket. He is a straight arrow and is appalled. I don't see how he can even appear with Trump. Trump is the proverbial dead man walking. He is going to lose and be a national joke. Party trying to figure out if any escape routes. Only real possibility for rehabilitation would be for Trump to resign." That coming from an RNC committee person talking to our Dana Bash.
So last hour, we saw Trump's campaign manager Kellyanne Conway along with top aide, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani entering Trump Tower. That's where CNN national politics reporter M.J. Lee is. So M.J., the presumption is Donald Trump is inside with his closest advisors. We heard from a "The Wall Street Journal" reporter who I spoke with earlier today who says Donald Trump has expressed that he wants to be out with supporters this evening. What are you hearing about their planning inside, and if and when Donald Trump will be emerging?
M.J. LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Well, Fred, we certainly have not seen Donald Trump emerge from Trump Tower today. But what we do know is that he is inside hunkered down. And he is doubling down. He told "The Washington Post" this morning he will not leave the presidential race. He said, quote, "I am not quitting. I have tremendous support."
Now, obviously, he is saying this as an avalanche of Republicans are withdrawing their support form Donald Trump and some of them are even calling on him to drop out of the race. I won't repeat the names that Jason Carroll already mentioned, but this is significant because we're seeing even someone like John Thune, a member of the Senate Republican membership, saying that Donald Trump needs to get out of the race. It does not bode well for Donald Trump at all because it could signal more defections could be coming from Republican leadership in Congress.
We have seen some activity outside of Trump Tower. We've seen some of Donald Trump's top advisors, including Rudy Giuliani and Kellyanne Conway, Trump's campaign manager heading inside to meet with Donald Trump. They did not take questions from reporters. So as of right now, it is really unclear exactly what strategy Donald Trump's campaign plans to execute to try to contain this fallout.
And as of right now no word yet on whether Donald Trump will actually speak to voters and supporters at a rally later today. But I have to point out, tomorrow is the second presidential debate as we all know. It is so important to emphasize how important a day like today would have been for Donald Trump to spend all of his energy and all of his time practicing and preparing for this town hall style debate against Hillary Clinton. But instead of doing that he is now focused on trying to contain the fallout from the video that was released on Friday. So this definitely has an impact on his debate performance as well, a debate that is going to be so important as we head into the final stretch of the 2016 election. Fred?
WHITFIELD: All right, M.J. Lee, thank you so much at Trump Tower, appreciate that. Coming up, as we have been reporting, Donald Trump told the "The Wall
Street Journal" that he refused to quit and says that his phone has been flooded with a whole lot of support. An exclusive conversation with the reporter who spoke with Trump, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:17:44] WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in St. Louis on the eve of the second presidential debate. And the fallout continues. The list of people who are no longer supporting Donald Trump is also growing. And now it's Rand Paul who says this, quote, "His comments are offensive and unacceptable." This after we heard Senator John Thune who is withdrawing his support. You heard from former presidential candidate John Kasich also saying he is not going to support, but then he reminded people he never had supported Donald Trump. And even New Hampshire's senator Kelly Ayotte who says she will no longer support Donald Trump. She will write in running mate Mike Pence as her selection for the next president of the United States.
In the meantime, Donald Trump has vowed to stay in the race despite mounting pressure from both sides of the aisle to drop out. He told "The Wall Street Journal" there is, quote, "zero chance I'll quit," end quote. He went on to say, quote, "The support I'm getting is unbelievable," end quote.
Last hour I spoke to the "Wall Street Journal" reporter Monica Langley who talk to Trump this morning, and she had this interview as she reiterated a number of his thoughts to us, all as it pertains to that now infamous videotape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MONICA LANGLEY, "WALL STREET JOURNAL" REPORTER: I called him this morning in his residence at Trump Tower. And I said, you know, I have to talk to you because clearly the campaign is in crisis. And he said "Just the opposite, Monica." He said "The campaign isn't in crisis. The support I'm getting is unbelievable." I acted surprised, of course. And I said "How can that be?" And he said it's because Hillary Clinton is a horribly flawed candidate. People don't want to support her.
And so I said, "Well, there's so many Republicans now coming out against you." And I said they want you to quit. And he said "There's zero chance I'll quit." And I said, "Really, you know, you're getting a lot of pressure." And he said "You know me. I never ever give up," which is true. I mean, he never ever gives up.
And, you know, then he talked about how there have been so many times during the campaign when he's made these controversial statements. You and I have all covered them. And he ends up going up in the polls. I don't know if he is misguided or if he's going to be accurate that he may not even be in crisis or he may go up. We'll see.
WHITFIELD: So in your conversation with him, he doesn't -- it doesn't appear as though he is in crisis mode. He is moving forward, he's preparing or at least looking forward to the debate tomorrow night. Did he tell you anything about whther he will rephrase his apology that was released last night that is receiving some criticism within the GOP which people say within the GOP that it's not contrite enough? Did you have that kind of conversation about whether he needs to say more or whether he needs to redress his apology?
LANGLEY: In the conversation with me, he did not discuss going further in the apology. Actually, he was a little more on the offense. What he said to me is, "Go behind closed doors of the holier than thou politicians and pundits and see what they're saying. I look like a baby," he said. So he was on the offense. He wasn't being more apologetic when he spoke to me.
WHITFIELD: And did he say anything to you about what this has done to the campaign? How his advisors are responding? What they're telling him, how his family, his sons, his daughter, what they're saying to him in light of this release of this 2005 video?
LANGLEY: Well, of course, he talks about all the support he's getting, all the e-mails, his phone, he said is ringing off the hook. Do you know what I asked him, because I have been covering him for more than a year. And I have travelled with him on the plane. I was just in the campaign headquarters this past Friday. And I do know the family, so I specifically asked him what has been the reaction to the two women with whom you are closest, your wife Melania and your daughter, Ivanka. And I said, "How are they taking this latest leak and your comments?" Here's what he said. "I was with Ivanka yesterday. I'm with Melania now. They fully understand and they're very loyal." Those were his comments. And then I said, well, how do you think --
WHITFIELD: Did he elaborate on what they understand -- I'm sorry go ahead.
LANGLEY: And here's what he said further. I said, "Well, how do you think, you know, the American public, if they fully understand? Do you think the American public and women understand?" And here's what he said, "People get it. They get life."
WHITFIELD: So he is in his own world, I mean, that's what it sounds like.
LANGLEY: Basically he expects that people understand him. That he -- as he said last night, you know, people understand that that's the kind of person that he has been, that he may not be that person anymore. That he is going to be a better man, I think that's what he said last night. We saw the statement from his running mate, Mike Pence, today, where he said he was offended and will pray for Donald Trump's family.
I actually traveled with Mike Pence last week. And I can tell you, being on the plane with him is -- he was with his, Mike Pence was with his wife of 31 years and one of his children, a daughter. And it is -- his wife sits with him. They come and go on to events holding hands. I mean, it's clear that Mike Pence is a very strong Christian person. And I can see how this kind of comment, the comments that were leaked would be offensive to him.
So I do not know what he will be advising Trump to say today. But -- and tomorrow at the debate. I did bring up to Donald Trump in my phone call, I said "How are you going to handle preparing for the debate?" And he said "I am studying and working on the debate." I said, "Exactly how are you preparing." He said "You know I don't like to talk about that."
[14:25:05] And I said, so what is it -- how are you going to make your case? I mean, what are you going to do? And he goes back to what he says all the time. He didn't threaten about the Clinton relationship as he kind of did last night in his apology. What he said is, if you want to make America great again, vote for me. If you want four more years of Obama, the failed Obamacare, open borders and horrible trade deals, vote for Hillary.
WHITFIELD: So Monica, it's extraordinary in your conversation with him, it sounds like you touched all the bases, but it also sounds like, based on the responses that you're giving us from him, that he is essentially -- he is in his own world. I mean, he sees this through a different lens. You said he says people get it, meaning they understand that that behavior, those words in the 2005 videotape kind of come with the territory in his world. And am I hearing you right that in your conversation with him about preparations tomorrow, he does not plan -- he doesn't have some plan on how he's going to better address this?
LANGLEY: You know, we did not get into that specifically. When I said, how are you preparing -- are you preparing? And his answer was "Yes, I am preparing and studying." But he would not offer specifics. And he said "But my focus is on how Hillary Clinton is four more years of Obama," and went into his main themes that have carried him to win the GOP nomination, you know, Obamacare, open borders, immigration, the horrible trade deals and how he would bring jobs.
However, he did not say I'm not getting into Bill Clinton. But he didn't say I am getting into it. He did not address it. I think that's something the campaign will be focused on today and tomorrow.
He also mentioned, by the way, that he wants to make a speech tonight. If they can pull it off, he wants to go give a speech tonight. He says he's got a lot of support even though so many of the big Republicans are now -- the establishment Republicans are coming out against him. There's an avalanche of them coming out saying they're no longer endorsing him --
WHITFIELD: Is that sort of like a dress rehearsal? Is he seeing that as sort of a dress rehearsal or that just kind of pumps him up with support so that he can feel more mentally fit going into tomorrow's debate?
LANGLEY: I think it's not a dress rehearsal for tomorrow's debate because tomorrow's debate is a town hall format. So it would not be a dress rehearsal for that. But I think it's a way for him to get out some positive themes, a different video than what everybody keeps watching. He wants to go out and show people he has support. He has enthusiastic supporters.
And to be honest, I think that in some ways having all these establishment Republicans come out against him once again the way he did when he first announced fires up his base. His base believes that the establishment is what got them where they are. His base, which is largely a lot of, you know, blue collar Americans and people who feel they are worse off than they were when President Obama came in, they believe that he is going to turn it around for them.
And so, you know what he said when I said all these Republicans are pulling their support for you. And he said "And that's why they don't win presidential elections." He said "They don't understand the American people." And he has been saying this week, I am the underdog. So the American people are underdogs. Our country is an underdog.
I mean, I was just talking to the campaign when I was at the headquarters this past Friday. I mean, after his very, you know, uneven, let's say, perhaps bad debate performance, the first performance with Hillary, I mean, how he knows he's not in the driver's seat and he has to come back.
So he is attempting to position himself as a comeback. And clearly, he wants to show that he is on the side of the American people who feel like they want to come back. And so having the establishment come out again him today over this, he's trying to show they've always been against me, and I don't care.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: All right, that was my conversation with "Wall Street Journal" reporter Monica Langley who spoke with Donald Trump this morning by phone. Her conversation with Donald Trump before Mike Pence issued his statement expressing disappointment in the videotape but also saying he was praying for his running mate ahead of tomorrow night's debate.
And now the list is long. I've been describing it as an avalanche of people who are saying they are not supporting Donald Trump or at least an avalanche of sentiments from people who are describing their disappointment as well of Donald Trump.
[14:30:09] And this one now coming from former presidential candidate Ben Carson, and in a statement -- and I'm giving you just a portion it because it is a very lengthy statement. He says, quote, "In no way do I condone Trump's behavior. In fact I condemn any form of disrespect towards women. We should always honor and respect the dignity of our mothers, sisters, and daughters. Even though the incident happened 10 years ago well before Trump entered the political arena, this behavior is unacceptable especially by someone who aspires to higher office. Trump did the right thing by immediately and unequivocally apologizing."
We'll have much more on the avalanche of sentiments in response to the release of that 2005 interview of Donald Trump. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) WHITFIELD: Welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in St. Louis, Missouri. Live pictures right now out of Elkhorn, Wisconsin, the rally about to get underway being hosted by House Speaker Paul Ryan. The guest of honor was supposed to be Donald Trump. And then after the release of his 2005 videos with the use of his vulgar language it then became Mike Pence, his running mate, who then bowed out today.
[14:35:02] And then you're also seeing on the opposite end of the country in Philadelphia, Bernie Sanders there stumping for Hillary Clinton. All this ahead, one day ahead of the second presidential debate taking place here at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri.
So Donald Trump under fire for these vulgar comments he made back in 2005 that were caught on video. Now one of his closest a most loyal confidantes, Ben Carson releasing a statement saying in part, quote, "In no way I condone Trump's behavior. In fact I condemn any form of disrespect towards women. We should always honor and respect the dignity of our mothers, sisters, and daughters. Even though the incident happened 10 years ago, well before Trump entered the political arena, this behavior is unacceptable, especially by someone who aspires to higher office. Trump did the right thing in immediately and unequivocally apologizing." That is Ben Carson's comment in part.
I want to bring in my political panel now to discuss all of this, CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein, CNN political analyst Rebecca Berg, and CNN correspondent Sunlen Serfaty, also CNN senior media correspondent and host of "Reliable Sources" Brian Stelter as well as CNN presidential historian Tim Naftali. Good that all of you could be with us here.
Folks are really fired up, excited about this debate about to happen tomorrow. But now, I mean, the stakes are even higher as a result of what's transpired just in the past couple of days. And then within the past 24 hours, Donald Trump apologizing, many with the GOP saying not contrite enough, and the list goes on about those who within the GOP who are criticizing him.
So the stakes are very high. Ron, let me begin with you first on this. Donald Trump, we know he is in Trump Tower with his closest advisors. In this interview with the "Wall Street Journal" he says he's is not quitting, and he has been enjoying the phone ringing off the hook. People are supporting him. He feels more confident than ever going into tomorrow's debate.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: There's no reason for him to feel more confident than ever. But there's also a limit to what the Republican Party can do. I talked today to Ben Ginsberg who is the premier election law strategist in the Republican Party. He was the field general for George W. Bush in the 2000 recount. And his take is there is no practical way for the Republican National Committee to force Trump from the ticket if he doesn't want to go. If he is willing to go, they could replace him. But then even then they would be in an enormous state by state legal struggle over trying to replace him. WHITFIELD: The ballots have been printed.
BROWNSTEIN: There would be a lot of broken crockery if you want that way.
On the other hand, the big fear that Republicans have had about Donald Trump throughout is what was his ceiling, how high could he go? He's had enormous difficulty getting above 41, 42 percent in the polls. The new question may be what is his floor? And the risk they face is it's one thing if he loses narrowly, that's one thing. If the support starts bleeding away, and in particular if a lot of these Republican leaning voters feel this is hopeless and stay home, the down ballot consequences could become much more catastrophic.
WHITFIELD: Tim Naftali, you're with us now as well. No one has seen anything like this in a race for the presidency. We really are in uncharted territory in so many different ways here. When you've got a candidate in Donald Trump who is headstrong, who says he is not quitting. He told that "The Wall Street Journal" reporter, "You know me. I am not a quitter." How does this change the dynamics of this presidential race, especially as you have members of the GOP who say they're most concerned about now the down ballot races?
TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, we're in a remarkably unscripted moment in history. I think the closest analogy, really, are the final weeks of the Nixon administration when tapes mattered. What we need to keep in mind is there's two different bases. There's the Trump base and there's the base of the Republican party. They overlap in many cases but they're not the same.
Values voters have been since the Reagan era, have been an important part of the Republican base. If they start to leave, that's a huge problem for Trump. Trump may have what used to be called the George Wallace blue collar populace and white supremacist, if you will, white vote in the south, they may stick with him. But you can't win. That's not enough. You have to have the Romney coalition plus.
So what I'm looking for in the next few days is whether we start to see southern Republicans peel off from him. We've seen Rocky Mountain Republicans, places where there are a lot of Mormon voters.
[14:40:01] Their elected leaders have been skeptical about Trump right from the start. We're seen high plains people are moving. Women in the Republican Party have been uncomfortable with Trump all along. But will he lose southern Republicans? And if we start to see senators from Mississippi, Alabama, or Louisiana starting to move away from him, he's finished.
And then I think what you'll see is a rebranding of the Republican Party to keep it together through this election. But that's what I'm looking for, because for Richard Nixon, when he lost the George Wallace vote, when George Wallace wouldn't return his call, he knew he had to resign. Trump, it's remarkable, but Trump's base is now the old George Wallace base in the old Confederacy. And if we see southerners start to move from him, then I predict the candidacy will be over rather quickly. WHITFIELD: So Brian, you know, this debate already had heightened
importance, particularly after the vice presidential debate which changed the dynamics of how people were looking at Mike Pence versus the man heading the ticket, Donald Trump. And now as result of this, this is a don't miss kind of debate. The stakes are very high, particularly for Donald Trump on how he tries to reshape the message. But in that " Wall Street Journal" reporter conversation, he said while he's preparing, he has no intention of re explaining himself.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Clinton also has to rethink what she'll be saying on that stage here at the university tomorrow night. There's actually a lot of time that can still pass between now and this debate. My first question is what's Trump going to do between now and tomorrow night. Is he going to hold a public event? Is he going to keep tweeting? Is he going to keep talking to reporters? He told "The New York Times" a few minutes ago, he's not hearing from anyone telling him to drop out. He's obviously not watching CNN right now then. I have a feeling he is watching a lot of television, he is consuming this. In some ways he loves being the center of attention. But this is the worst possible kind.
What's he going to say, when's he going to say it? What's he doing to change his strategy here. Is he going to go nuclear tomorrow against the Clintons? And then my other question, Fred, is, how many more tapes are there? We know there have to be more tapes like this. We don't know what's on him. But he said a lot of things for a lot of years on "The Apprentice" behind the scenes, and I wonder if that is one of the X factors these Republican senators and Congressman have to consider as they weigh what to do about Trump.
WHITFIELD: This has really become a power struggle, Donald Trump versus the GOP in a different way. He says, so what, all of these Republican leaders are coming forward and saying he needs to step aside? But hasn't he from the very start.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This has always been a struggle between Donald Trump and establishment Republican. But this certainly has reached a tipping point for a lot of Republicans who came out, high profile Republicans coming out and saying I don't condone these statements, some backing off of their endorsements. That is significant. This is basically the last straw for a lot of Republicans.
And it does seem that Donald Trump right now is operating somewhat detached of the political world around him. This is a candidate that for the moment right now is saying, no, my supporters support me. They get it. They understand. No, I don't need to show contrition. It seems like right now at least publicly he's putting a public face on it. No, no, everything is OK, when it very clearly is not.
BROWNSTEIN: There's also an avalanche effect here. When you have Kelly Ayotte and John Thune coming out and saying he should step down or I'm not going to vote for him, it makes it tougher, the question becomes more pointed for other Republicans, especially in swing states. Pat Toomey, if this is a breaking point for Kelly Ayotte and Joe Heck, why isn't it a breaking point for you? And of course the calculation is so difficult because if they break
from Trump they risk alienating his base. If they don't break from Trump they risk alienating the swing voters, particularly the college educated white women who have already moved against him in overwhelming numbers. And it's a hostage choice for them, but I do think all of them now, once you have this kind of fissure, the fissure tends to widen, and all of them will be asked every day if this was enough for Kelly Ayotte to get off the bus and Jason Chaffetz and Joe Heck, why are you still there?
STELTER: In the Twitter age it's ever more frenzy. The avalanche goes even faster. The snowball rolls down the hill even faster in the Twitter and Facebook age.
WHITFIELD: So Rebecca, you know, it's damage control, not just for Donald Trump, his camp, but it's damage control for all those Republicans particularly who have town their support behind him reluctantly or otherwise. This, everyone is assessing how this might hurt them.
REBECCA BERG, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "REAL CLEAR POLITICS": Exactly, Fred. And what is so interesting to me is amidst all of this, as we are seeing this avalanche of Republicans fleeing Donald Trump, condemning him, asking him in some cases to withdrawal from the presidential race, I've been speaking with Republicans throughout the day on Capitol Hill, on the outside, asking them is the Trump campaign doing anything right now to reach out to you and to try to stop the bleeding here, to give you a reason to at least wait and see what he says in the debate tomorrow?
[14:45:06] They are not doing that right now as far as I have heard. And that is amazing to me. That is politics crisis management 101. Make sure that your party at least is staying quiet, waiting, watching. They're not doing that in this case, and that's a major problem for Donald Trump over the next 24, 48 hours.
WHITFIELD: And another big question, Mike Pence, what about the demise for Mike Pence? That he would issue this statement after refusing to appear at the rally today at the invitation of the House speaker. I mean, Ron, Mike Pence is also trying to save his own career here.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, and I think Mike Pence is genuinely offended. Knowing Mike Pence and knowing the part of the party that he represents, he really does come out of the values voters, the Christian conservatives. It was always a little bit of a shotgun marriage.
And this has been in many ways a hostile takeover of the Republican Party. There was very little institutional support for Donald Trump, even in the primaries. This is the first time when we have seen the blue collar wing and white collar wing of the Republican Party diverge, and the blue collar wing win. Half of non-college Republicans voted for him. Only a third of college educated Republicans -- WHITFIELD: That's why I wonder those Republicans who decided to step
forward reluctantly or otherwise who did say, OK, we're finally going to be behind him because he's the Republican nominee. And now you have this, you've got another contingent of folks like John Kasich who said I told you so.
BROWNSTEIN: And we're going to be watching Paul Ryan. Not only Mike Pence, but Paul Ryan has had one foot out the door since Judge Curiel, what he said was the textbook definition of racism. I interviewed him about 10 days ago, and the list of issues he disagrees with Trump. He wants Trump to sign their tax bill. He wants Trump to repeal Obamacare, roll back regulation. But the vision of the party that Trump has put forward is fundamentally anathema to what he thinks the future of the Republican Party is. So there are a lot of Republicans who have been uneasy and we are beginning to see how many of them now follow in this kind of avalanche that is developing.
SERFATY: To pick up on it, to underscore again how remarkable it is that you have Mike Pence issue a statement today about his own running mate, the man at the top of the ticket, to say not only is he personally offended. But I thought the part that was so striking was when he said I'm going to be praying for his family and I'm going to hope that Sunday night at the debate he brings in essence a different tone.
WHITFIELD: There's a distance, isn't there, with that comment, there's a distance between --
BROWNSTEIN: And Tim could make this point. But even if you compare to Barry Goldwater in '64, or George McGovern in 72, there is -- the level of internal party defection from the nominee, you'd have to go back to William Howard Taft in 1912 when Theodore Roosevelt ran against his own chosen successor I think to find anything like the level of fissure that we are seeing in the Republican Party.
STELTER: Can we spare a thought for Melania Trump right now and Ivanka Trump and the women in this family that are watching this coverage and seeing Donald Trump quoted this way? I wonder if they'll weigh in at some point. I wonder if we're going to hear from his female family members.
WHITFIELD: Of course we want to hear from him. And you know, Monica, with "The Wall Street Journal," Langley, she said when she was talking to Donald Trump, he said Melania is with me right now, Ivanka is with me right here. They are with me. There is loyalty. Those were the words he used.
SERFATY: In the past Ivanka has had to come out and defend her father. When some allegations came up earlier this year, she said I'm not there with every exchange that my father has, but my father is not a groper. That's what she said point blk. Of course, this being many months ago. We haven't heard from Ivanka or Melania about this, but that's really the dynamic.
BROWNSTEIN: What will be one thing to watch in the polls next week is the women's vote is not monolithic. Yes Donald Trump is trailing among women overall by 20 points. But you've really got to look at that in three big baskets. He is facing enormous deficits among women of color, much worse than among minority men. Among college educated white women he is on track for the worst performance ever by a Republican. Not Republican has ever lost them by more than eight. He is down by 20 to 25 in some polls.
However, if you look at the non-college white women, the working class white women, they are largely sticking with him in numbers comparable to what Republicans have won before. He's up 13, 15 points in some polls among these blue collar white women. Will they stay with him? That's how you get down to mid-30s.
WHITFIELD: Rebecca, you're still with me. Real quick, your assessment of the dynamic of a Mike Pence with his statement, there's a distance now. And we're talking about a ticket when there should be this sense of unity. They're in it together. Mike Pence as far as we understand is not in the Trump Tower with Donald Trump in what could be the toughest, potentially most grave moment of their candidacy.
BERG: There is a distance not only because Mike Pence put out this statement, Fred, but think about Donald Trump's reaction when Pence was getting these rave reviews for his debate performance and Donald Trump's first performance was panned in the press.
[14:50:00] Now, Republicans are coming out saying Mike Pence should be at the top of the ticket. Donald Trump must be furious at Mike Pence right now. So there is definitely a rift here building between the top of the ticket and Mike Pence. It's unclear how this will develop over the next few days. It's significant that Mike Pence for now, even though he obviously condemned Donald Trump's remarks, is standing by Donald Trump in spite of that. He really has no other choice at this stage. But we'll have to see where this goes in the next few days. It is very unpredictable.
WHITFIELD: And Tim, last word?
NAFTALI: I just want to say that actually Mike Pence is the one to watch, I agree. He did very well in the debate with Tim Kaine. He is looking to 2020. He does not want to go down with the ship. And this will hurt his brand. He's the one to watch the next little while. The fact that he didn't turn up in Wisconsin is very important today. As I said, this is an unscripted moment. We don't know what's going to happen in the next few days, but I wouldn't be surprised, I wouldn't be surprised if Donald Trump changes his mind. But we'll see.
WHITFIELD: All right, we will see. Tim Naftali, Brian Stelter, Ron Brownstein, Sunlen Serfaty, Rebecca Berg, thanks to all of you, appreciate it. We're going to talk much more about this. For now we're going to take a short break. We'll be right back.
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WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in St. Louis Washington University a day ahead of the second presidential debate. So much at stake. Donald Trump has vowed to remain in the race despite calls for him to drop out. If he were to quit, there is potentially a way to replace him. It's called rule number nine. CNN's Chris Frates has been digging into what it all means and how it would work. He's joining us live. All right, Chris, is it a possibility?
CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a possibility, Fred. But first we should acknowledge we're in really uncharted territory here. It's really unclear if this rule could be used this late in the game. And perhaps more importantly, the thing to remember here, to invoke rule nine, Donald Trump would have to drop out of the race for the rule to take effect. Trump has said just this morning that he'd never drop out. So what we're talking about, we need to point out, it's a long shot
right now. But if Trump were to step aside, here is what would happen. According to the rules as they're written now, which are also vague and could be open to interpretation, the RNC could hold another convention, that's pretty unlikely. It's impractical to get all those people together with just weeks to go until the election.
So what's more likely is members of the Republican National Committee would choose a replacement nominee. Now, that replacement isn't chosen by a popular vote. The committee members vote by state. Each state, they're entitled to the same amount of votes as it cast at the Republican National Convention this summer in Cleveland.
For instance, New York has 95 votes. They have three national committee members. If all three Republican national committee members were to agree on a replacement candidate, say Mike Pence, then Pence would get all 95 of those votes.
[14:55:06] Now, if those three members chose a different candidate, those 95 votes get split. And in that system, it's a little vague exactly how that split would happen. But we do know that each state delegation would repeat this process. A replacement would need to receive a majority of the votes from the states across the country to become the nominee.
So we've also talked to RNC members about the rule nine. And they're telling us there is concerns that it wouldn't work. They couldn't do rule nine because early voting has already started in some states. Donald Trump's name is already on the ballots. And again, this entire scenario, not triggered unless Trump drops out. And right now, Fred, as we've been reporting all afternoon, Trump saying there's zero chance of that.
So we're going to have to wait and see. But certainly this is in the back of a lot of people's minds, Fred.
WHITFIELD: All right, lots to consider. All right, thank you so much Chris Frates in Washington, appreciate that. And a reminder, you don't want to miss the second presidential debate moderated by Anderson Cooper right here on CNN. Our special coverage kicks off at 4:00 eastern tomorrow with the two candidates facing off at 9:00 p.m. eastern.
I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Thanks for being with me. Much more straight ahead in the newsroom with Poppy Harlow right here from St. Louis after this.
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[15:00:01] POPPY HARLOW: Hi, everyone. Welcome to a special live edition of CNN Newsroom. I'm Poppy Harlow coming to you live today from the campus of Washington University in St. Louis.
