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Donald Trump Defends Allegations of Sexual Harassment; Another Woman Comes Forward with Sexual Misconduct Story Against Donald Trump; Billy Bush Hires Attorney. Aired 3-3:30a ET

Aired October 14, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And yes, we will build a wall. Crooked Hillary also wants a 550% increase in Syrian refugees to pour into our country (ph). And that's over Obama numbers. And those are thousands and thousands a day (ph). There's -- even though she admitted in private -- according to Wikileaks -- again, nobody's covering Wikileaks. They're covering somebody that I never saw before. That she knows terrorists are trying to infiltrate the refugee program. So you have terrorists coming in, she knows they're coming in, and yet she wants to increase it.

Hillary's support for open borders with the Middle East will put us in the same position as France, with multi-generational terrorism imbedded in our community. And our country will never be the same. So let me state this as clearly as I can. I am going to keep radical Islamic terrorists the hell out of our country.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, a defiant Donald Trump speaking there, rally, Greensboro, North Carolina. Responding to the latest volley of accusations against him. Minutes before he took the stage, a bombshell from the Washington Post. Allegations from now this new accuser, a woman claiming that Donald Trump sexually assaulted her. Specifically, she was a former model, she told the story to the Washington Post that Trump, at a club in the early 90s, reached up her skirt and grabbed her genitals.

An eerily similar scenario to what we've been hearing in other accusers coming forward this week, and on the hot mic there with Billy Bush in 2005 that caught him bragging essentially, about sexual assault, and he's a celebrity, so essentially he could get away with that. With regard to this story in the Washington Post today, let me be clear, CNN has not been able to independently confirm her claims. Again, this is what she told the Washington Post, but just a heads-up, the details in her story are graphic.

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KRISTIN ANDERSON, ALLEGES DONALD TRUMP SEXUALLY ASSAULTED HER: And I'm talking to my friend who I'm sitting to and across from on my left side. I'm very clear on this, this is the vivid part for me. So the person on my right, who unbeknownst to me at that time, was Donald Trump, put their hand up my skirt. He did touch my vagina through my underwear.

Pushed the hand away and I got up and I turned around and I see these eyebrows, very distinct eyebrows of Donald Trump. And I got up and I moved and I continued to talk with my friends. And they said, "oh, that's Donald Trump." I was like, "eew, he's gross, he just put his hand up my skirt." That's not OK. And we all sort of brushed it off and moved on.

But I was very young and sort of the whole thing was very inconsequential, seemingly. And I brushed it off. But now I feel like, you know, that's kind of a gateway. You know, if you're letting somebody stick their hand up your skirt that (1) has not even introduced themself, you weren't even speaking with them, and they're sort of groping you on the side, on the fly like you're some sort of stuffed animal on the couch, that is really not OK. And it opens the door for much worse behavior on their part and for the girl allowing worse things to happen to them because they feel that it's inconsequential. And it really does -- it's meaningless because, "oh, well you weren't hurt, so you're fine. It's nothing."

But it's actually not nothing and it really sends an awful message to women that they're nothing. If you're touched inappropriately, you should tell somebody and speak up about it. And actually go to the authorities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me be clear, Trump's campaign quick to respond to this accuser. Let me read their response in its entirety.

"This is a total fabrication. It did not happen. It is illogical and nonsensical to think Donald Trump was alone in a nightclub in Manhattan. And that the alleged incident, a recognition of Mr. Trump went unnoticed by both the woman involved and anyone else in this crowded venue. Further, why is this just coming out now? She described the allegations being inconsequential at the time. But why then wasn't it consequential when Mr. Trump announced for President or when he won the primary, or when he headlined the convention? Why is it just now, three weeks before election day, consequential? The answer is that this is clearly a political attack designed to tear down Mr. Trump."

[15:05:48]

Let's bring my panel in. David Chalian, CNN Political Director is with us today. I've got Abby Phillip, she's back, she's a reporter for the Washington Post. It was the Post that broke the story of the woman you just heard. CNN Chief Political Correspondent, Dana Bash. Danny Cevallos is with us, CNN Legal Analyst and criminal defense attorney. And Brian Stelter is here, CNN Senior Media Correspondent and host of "Reliable Sources."

Wow, where do I begin? Dana Bash, let me go to you first. Listen, it appeared he started on prompter. He was saying we're going to win, my thoughts and prayers to those of you in the wake of Hurricane Matthew. And then not too long later, veered into the territory of these accusers, their lives -- and I wouldn't have been in a club alone in the 90s. What did you make of all of that?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Vintage Donald Trump. There is nobody who he thinks can defend himself better than Donald Trump. Nobody has the platform, nobody has the microphone, or megaphone, and the influence with his supporters more than he does. And just -- while I'm talking about his supporters, the thing that we have to keep in mind here is that he does still have a core.

Maybe that core is shrinking a little bit, but he still does have a core of supporters who hear these things and don't really feel compelled to believe the litany of accusations. And continuously -- and just anecdotally, I was in suburban Philadelphia yesterday with four of Trump's supporters, Republican activists who, to a person, and mostly women said, I just don't believe it. This is the media, this is -- these are his opponents, these are people who are looking for their 15 minutes of fame. This is not what's important. What's important are the economic issues and so forth in this country. And by the way, that he's not Hillary Clinton.

Having said that, this is about -- and David has said this until he's blue in the face -- at this point this is about -- forget about shrinking core, this is about expanding the core to try to get elected. And it is not helpful that he's got to use his stump (ph) speeches to continue to hold onto his base.

BALDWIN: And, David Chalian, if I may just point out, let's take Donald Trump and his work. Let's say that all of these stories either we've heard in the last 48 hours, are false. Still, when you're talking about women coming forward with allegations of sexual assault, is the proper response from the man who would like to be President of the United States, to be "look at her." Or as he just said, "believe me, she would not be my first choice. That I can tell you." Laughter in the audience.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I mean, listen. His closing message of this campaign now is, "I don't go to nightclubs alone." His closing message to the American voters of this campaign right now is, "look at her. When you saw her last night what did you think? I don't think so." That's his closing message to American voters in his campaign for the presidency.

That is clearly not where he wants to be. So what is surprising to me -- and though, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised anymore Brooke, but -- what is surprising to me, and he addressed this in his remarks, he said people say, why don't I move on and talk about other things? He's like, but as I learned long ago if you get punched, you got to punch back. He said that straight-up. And that became (ph) ...

BALDWIN: He said they, as in his campaign advisors, don't want me talking about this.

CHALIAN: That's just revealing. But there's a reason his campaign advisors are not saying talk about this. Because to most Americans, this is not what they want to hear about from their presidential candidates right now. Obviously when being attacked you want to defend yourself. But you also have surrogates and others to be able to do that. Why is he not setting the sights higher a little bit to push forth on the message that has been working for him throughout this campaign.

BALDWIN: Because he can't help himself.

CHALIAN: Exactly.

BALDWIN: Well that may be part of the issue. And then Abby, it's your paper, it's Washington Post. I talked to Karen Tumulty at the top of the last hour about how this story came to her. And I guess you have Donald Trump saying it's -- you know, you and the Clintons and you're colluding and you're poisoning the electorate. This is the message from Donald Trump. What do you think?

ABBY PHILLIPS, REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well you know, one of the interesting things is that his reaction to all of these accusations really show why most of these women have, really nothing to gain by coming forward. I mean they are being attacked by a presidential nominee on a podium. And that is the environment in which they're coming into this conversation.

So very few of these women are sitting there saying, "hey, I want to do this for my 15 minutes of fame." And I think that's very evident to the American people if they're looking at this argument unfolding before their eyes. And you know, in Karen's great story today, she talked to this woman about her political leanings. And she says, Kristen Anderson says, I don't even know if I want to vote in this election. Because she is not enamoured with either of her choices.

So people are going to take all of this that's in the public domain and take it for what it is. And take Donald Trump's words for what it is and make a decision. I am surprised to see -- if Donald Trump wants to make an argument about his understanding of what sexual assault is, or harassment is, why not make that case to the American people? Why not say what he believes about this?

He's not saying any of that. Instead he's going on the attack, as David mentioned, counterpunching. And that, I think, is going to be what he has to hold up against, the stories that these women, and the American people will make a decision at the end of the day.

BALDWIN: Karen told me that Kristin Anderson said she actually doesn't like Trump or Hillary and that she might -- I think she said that she might write in Mitt Romney or Oprah Winfrey. Just on that note, Brian Stelter you were watching, you were strong on this yesterday talking about dog whistle attacks, potential violence. What did you make of today?

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BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well we're hearing Donald Trump continue this narrative about a big, grand conspiracy theory. He talked today about one big fix, one big, ugly lie. And let's not mince words about that. He's telling his supporters that he, and they are victims of a conspiracy. Trump's talked a lot about conspiracy theories during the election but this is the biggest conspiracy theory of all.

He's saying the Clinton campaign and the media are working together to take him down. And today he brought up a New York Times shareholder, Carlos Slim. I mean he's a big shareholder in the New York Times. Happens to be Mexican and Donald Trump made a point of saying that on stage.

Carlos Slim does not dictate news coverage of the New York Times. I used to work there, I would know if that was the case. But he's bringing up Slim in order to present this picture of a conspiracy against him.

BALDWIN: What about Danny, or just -- you have these women coming forward -- you know, I'm not hearing anything about anyone trying to file a suit. But what would -- even Erin Burnett here at CNN says she has a friend who has similar allegations of being groped by Donald Trump back in the day. What's the potential legal fallout here?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: When we're talking about defamation, you know, there's potential on both sides. Obviously Donald Trump has threatened a lawsuit against the New York Times for defamation. But the more Trump is up there responding to his accusers, if he starts calling them liars, then that is some of that (ph) ...

BALDWIN: He is calling them liars.

CEVALLOS: Right, yeah. If he does, as we saw with Bill Cosby, that can give rise to a defamation lawsuit, also. And in this case, while the accusers are what we would call limited public figures, Trump is unquestionably the classic public figure. And you would have a heightened standard that New York Times -- the Sullivan Standard, coincidentally enough -- to show actual malice.

First that the statements were false, but that's not enough. You'd have to additionally show actual malice. Which means, either they knew it was false, or they acted with reckless disregard as to its falsity. They stuck their head in the sand and said see no evil, hear no evil.

STELTER: Without judging the merits of these cases that we're hearing about, my heart goes out to the victims of sexual assault, the victims of sexual harassment, who are hearing a presidential candidate victim shame and victim blame. Or at least accuser blame. He's definitely accuser shaming, whether they are victims or not.

BALDWIN: I'm glad you brought -- thank you, Brian Stelter for bringing that up. But I read a piece this morning in the paper about that. And I hope in the end women feel empowered, at the end of the day, that whether or not these -- we don't -- again, these are accusations. But that women feel empowered to, if you are touched inappropriately, please, you have to say something.

Let me ask everyone to stand by, we have more breaking news. Because, as Donald Trump was just speaking, and I'm just getting this -- we're telling you what we just heard. Another accuser has now come forward. This woman actually competed on Donald Trump's show, The apprentice. You will hear her allegations, next.

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BALDWIN: Welcome back, you're watching CNN, I'm Brooke Baldwin. Breaking news, another accuser coming forward just in the last few minutes accusing Donald Trump of sexual assault. Moments ago attorney, Gloria Allred held a news conference with a former Apprentice contestant by the name of Summer Zervos. This is how she described her encounters with Mr. Trump.

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SUMMER ZERVOS, ACCUSES DONALD TRUMP OF SEXUAL ASSAULT: I met Mr. Trump when I was a candidate on The Apprentice in season five. I had the utmost admiration for Mr. Trump even after I was fired. I continued to see him as a possible mentor and his potential employee.

In 2007 I was going to be in New York for a social obligation. I contacted Mr. Trump's office to see if he was available for lunch. I was informed that he could not have lunch but that he would like to meet me with him in his office. When I arrived, he kissed me on the lips. I was surprised, but felt that perhaps it was just a form of greeting.

We sat and spoke. He was extremely complimentary. He said that he was impressed with how I handled myself on The Apprentice. He said that he had never met anyone with my combination of being smart, attractive, and with as large a set of balls as I have.

He would say -- he said that he would love to have -- he said he would love to have me work for him. Mr. Trump said he would be coming to Los Angeles soon and he would contact me. I felt as though I was reaching for my brass ring, I was very excited. I felt as though my dream of working for Mr. Trump might come true.

As I was about to leave, he again kissed me on the lips. This made me feel nervous, and embarrassed. This was not what I wanted or expected. He asked me for my phone number and I scrawled it down with a marker. I left hurriedly and called a friend who lived in New York because I was upset by the kiss. I also called my parents to let them know what had happened.

I spoke at length with my loved ones and we came to the conclusion that this was undoubtedly some form of greeting and I should not take it as anything other than that. Mr. Trump called early in the morning of the day I returned home. He referred to me as his OC (ph) angel. He wanted to know if he was with me at that hour (ph). He scolded me about my penmanship because it was difficult for him to read my telephone number as I had written it for him. Even though he had called me, he concluded the call by asking for my phone number.

He then called again, days later, to let me know that he was coming to Los Angeles. He then -- he again called me after he had just landed in Los Angeles. He asked me to meet him that evening at the Beverly Hills Hotel and asked me where I would like to have dinner. When I arrived, his security guards greeted me at the hotel. He walked with me to greet Mr. Trump. I assumed we were going to the restaurant in the hotel. Instead, I was taken to a bungalow.

The security guard opened the door and I went in. I was standing in the entryway. To my left was a bedroom and I saw Mr. Trump's clothes on the bed. I did not see him, but he greeted me with "hello," in a sing-song voice. It sounded like, "helllooooo." I thought the mistake had been made and Mr. Trump thought he was speaking to someone he was more familiar with.

I walked further into the living room, away from the bedroom, and sat down. I waited for about 15 minutes until Mr. Trump emerged. He had his suit on. I stood up and he came to me and started kissing me open-mouthed as he was pulling me towards him. I walked away and I sat down in a chair. He was on a loveseat across from me and I made an attempt at conversation.

He then asked me to sit next to him. I complied. He then grabbed my shoulder and began kissing me again very aggressively and placed his hand on my breast. I pulled back and walked to another part of the room. He then walked up, grabbed my hand, and walked me into the bedroom. I walked out.

He then turned me around and said, "let's lay down and watch some tele tele." He put me in an embrace and I tried to push him away. I pushed his chest, put space between us, and I said, "come on, man, get real." He kept repeating my words back to me, "get reeeeal," as he began thrusting his genitals.

He tried to kiss me again, with my hand still on his chest and I said, "dude, you're tripping right now," attempting to make it clear I was not interested. He said, "what do you want?" And I said, "I came to have dinner." And he said, "OK, we'll have dinner."

He paced around the room, he acted like he was a bit angry. He pointed out that someone had delivered a fruit basket. I felt that it was to show me how important he was. As we were waiting for dinner, I sat across the room from him, as far away as possible. He started saying that he did not think I had ever known love, or had ever been in love. I did not want to discuss my personal life with him.

Then just before dinner arrived, he transformed into being all about business and began questioning me as though I was on a job interview. Dinner was delivered to the bungalow. When dinner arrived, he asked me to wait in a small room ...

[15:24:11]

BALDWIN: All right so that is the first time, that is the first time we have all heard this account from this former Apprentice contestant. Paul Vercammen, let me go to you. You were in the room for the news conference. I know that you're on the phone. Allred, her attorney, says that she has corroborating evidence to back up the claims we just heard. Did she, did she show that? PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN REPORTER (via telephone): No, Gloria Allred

wasn't very specific about that. She said that she has these two corroborating witnesses that her client had talked to. And then when asked if she had emails or phone records or anything else she believed could corroborate the story, she said yes they did. But then she stressed that we are not attempting to sue or bring charges against Donald Trump in any way.

And also off-camera later on, I asked her will more alleged victims come forward that you're representing? And she said, not that I know of right now but there are other victims that she's been contacted by.

BALDWIN: OK, Paul thank you so much. Let me just tell all of you that obviously this is one woman's account. CNN is working right now to vett her story and we are also reaching out to the Trump campaign. And apparently they have told CNN at the moment, no comment.

Dana Bash has still been standing by, Brian Stelter is here, Danny Cevallos is here. Danny let me just go to you first. You've heard, you've been following like the rest of us, these accusers coming forward. What do you make of all of this?

CEVALLOS: It's interesting because it reminds me of the Cosby case. And you have an interesting -- similar to the Cosby case, you have incidents that, some of these happened way beyond the statute of limitations. But what everybody says at this point going forward is critical because words can be actionable as defamation. Even if the original incident itself, too much time has passed.

So it's interesting that you have somebody like Trump who goes so off- script, who may say things about some of these accusers, that may actually boomerang back to him and make him liable -- as he's in the midst of a fight for the presidency.

BALDWIN: You hear these different stories, though. And again, doing my due diligence, accusations, but there are all these similarities.

STELTER: Right.

BALDWIN: It's the open-mouth kissing, unwanted. What did you ...

STELTER: One of the challenges here is, obviously and importantly, a presumption of innocence. At the same time, we have to take accusers' stories seriously. We have to be able to hold those two thoughts in our hands at the same time and know those are both true statements. He is innocent until presumed -- he is guilty -- innocent until proven ...

BALDWIN: Innocent until proven guilty.

STELTER: And you know at the same time, we hear some victim blaming, or victim shaming going on. Which is very damaging for victims of sexual assault. What is striking me about Summer's case that we're hearing about for the first time, is that she said she told her parents very early on. That she told her parents right away. So in this case there is some corroboration from other people, potentially. They can say she did tell the story at the time.

BALDWIN: Let me actually, Dana, Dana let me go to you. Because I think it's important as we're hearing these different stories, just to state -- take a step back, big picture. What, in the last 48 hours we have seen the President of the United States and the First Lady give impassioned speeches in attacking Donald Trump. And then you have Donald Trump just this time yesterday and again just now, making his own vociferous attack on a lot of people, as well. And saying that these women are liars. We are in a divided America.

BASH: Ya think? I mean it doesn't get any more evident than to see the way with which people are reacting to these allegations. Nevermind the candidate himself who is being so aggressive and going after these women as saying that they are not -- they are accusing him inappropriately, that it is just false.

Now, I mean, as you said earlier, Brooke, let's just say for the moment, giving him the benefit of the doubt ...

BALDWIN: Yeah.

BASH: To be accused on this kind of level is, it's kind of hard to imagine what that feels like if you are innocent. But still, we're talking not just about a legal battle, or criminal accusations, we're talking about a presidential campaign.

BALDWIN: 25 days away.

BASH: And right, and the fact is that true or not true, by the candidate himself, taking this head-on and responding personally, it gives more oxygen to the story. It just does. You know they ask, why are we not covering these Wikileaks? Which we are. But it's just, it's almost hard to do with all of the time that Donald Trump is contributing to these stories by the way he is reacting. So I think that that is something that we have to keep in mind in the big picture here, as we go forward.

BALDWIN: And also keep in mind -- I want to bring another voice in -- keep in mind it was just a week ago today that the Billy Bush, Donald Trump, Access Hollywood 2005 tape was leaked to David Fahrenthold over at the Washington Post. Thus begat this entire week. And joining me now, Executive Editor of The Hollywood Reporter, Matthew Bellamy, with new information. And just full disclosure for -- Matthew, earlier in your career, you worked as a lawyer at a law firm run by the attorney now representing Billy Bush. But so tell -- you're reporting is stunning because your reporting indicates Billy Bush has hired this mega, mega attorney and he, what, is he readying for a fight with NBC?

MATTHEW BELLAMY, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: I think absolutely. This does suggest that Billy Bush and NBC have not reached an amicable settlement as many believed there would be at the beginning of the week. Where he would just be paid a sum of money and go away and NBC would move on.

The hiring of Marshall Grossman who is a very well-known litigator in Los Angeles suggests that Billy Bush believes he has some claims against NBC --

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