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Trump Insists Election "Absolutely Being Rigged"; WikiLeaks Releases Clinton's Goldman Sachs Speeches; Wall Street Closely Watching Next Debate; Your Money, Your Vote: Battleground States; An Outsider's Presidential Run; Evan McMullin in Virtual Three-Way Tie in Utah Poll; Iraq PM: Offensive to Take Mosul from ISIS Underway. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 16, 2016 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: In zero room for interpretation, the candidate tweeting, "This election is absolutely being rigged by the dishonest and distorted media-pushing crooked Hillary, but also at many polling places. Sad." Claims like this are basically unheard of in modern day American politics. And Trump's tweet contradicts what his own advisor, Rudy Giuliani said this morning right here on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: When he talks about a rigged election, he's not talking about the fact that it's going to be rigged at the polls. What he's talking about is that 80 to 85 percent of the media is against him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: The thing is that's exactly what his tweet just said. At the polls, just moments ago, he took to Twitter, wring that a new poll shows the election is close and that Hillary Clinton is down among female voters. The ABC News poll Trump's talking about does show Trump four points behind Clinton within the margin of error considering Trump's rough week, this could be viewed as good news for the campaign. But take a look, the second poll just released by NBC shows Clinton with an 11-point lead over Trump. Clinton's campaign though has a distraction on its hands. Her team now dealing with the latest batch of hacked e-mails released by WikiLeaks, they include reported excerpts of some of those Wall Street she gave, namely three of them at Goldman Sachs events. In them, Clinton suggest that political reasons made in necessary for members of congress to take action against Wall Street after the financial crisis. We're going to dive into all of it this hour. But first, let's dig into Trump's assertion that this election is rigged.
Let me bring in CNN investigative correspondent, Chris Frates. Chris, do the facts bear out his claim?
CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Well, they really don't, Poppy. If you take a look at this, you know, Donald Trump not really providing any evidence to support this charge that somehow the election's rigged. And in fact, if you take a look at a 2012 investigative report by News 21, they looked at over a decade of data, and they found just 10 cases of voter impersonation at the polls on Election Day, just 10. And the report did point out that while there's fraud and fraud does occur, the number of cases are, quote, "infinitesimals," Poppy, so very, very small here. Not nearly on the scale that we're hearing from Donald Trump, Poppy.
HARLOW: Republicans, some republicans who have supported him or -- and also some who have abandoned him are speaking out about this. What are they saying?
FRATES: Yeah, that's exactly right. In fact, we heard from Mike Pence's running mate who seem to take a different view, not nearly as tough of a view. Let's take a listen to what he said just this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will absolutely accept the results of the election. Look, the American people will speak in an election that will culminate on November the 8th. But the American people are tired of the obvious bias in the national media. That's where the sense of a rigged election goes here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRATES: And we've also heard, Poppy, from Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan, he's weighing in, and I want to read you what he put out as a statement yesterday. He said our democracy relies on confidence and election results. And the speaker is fully confident the states will carry out this election with integrity. Now, we got some really tough choice words from Paul Ryan from Donald Trump, just a few minutes ago on Twitter saying, "Paul Ryan, a man who doesn't know how to win, including failed run four years ago must start focusing on the budget, military, vet, et cetera. So, all of these criticism, Poppy, coming a day before Trump heads to Ryan's home State of Wisconsin, he's going to campaign there tomorrow. But it's worth noting here, Ryan, Senator Ron Johnson, Governor Scott Walker, all the top GOP officials in Wisconsin, they're not campaigning with Donald Trump tomorrow, Poppy.
HARLOW: They're not campaigning but remember, Paul Ryan, speaker of the house, has not pulled his endorsement on Donald Trump.
FRATES: As a matter of fact, none of them -- none. Senator Ron Johnson and Governor Scott Walker all still endorsing him, but it does say a little bit that they're not going to appear with him in their home state tomorrow.
HARLOW: Uh-hmm. Yeah, definitely focusing down ballot, they are. Christ, thank you. We appreciate it.
FRATES: You're welcome.
HARLOW: Critics are Trump's rigged election claims dangerous and destructive. Let's talk about the big picture, what type of impact could they have? Why does it matter if a presidential candidate talks like this?
Let's bring in my political panel with me. CNN senior media correspondent, host of "RELIABLE SOURCES" Brian Stelter. In D.C. Philip Bump of the Washington Post. Thank you, gentlemen, both for being here. Brian, you dug into this big time on your show this morning and you opened by saying this is Trump's biggest lie. What -- why does it concern you so much, right? Because some folks, they are -- they're just words and this is the heat of election, you say?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Because this is the foundation of the house, and every room in the house, every wall in the house, everybody inside the house, we all depend on the foundation of the house, the integrity of our voting system. What Donald Trump says, even though they're just words, are taken very seriously by his supporters. And we've heard some of his supporters talk openly about wanting a revolution, wanting a coup --
HARLOW: Uh-hmm.
[18:04:59] STELTER: -- if there's to be a Clinton election in about three weeks. Now, we shouldn't paint with a broad brush here, right, we're talking about a fringed kind of Trump supporter who actually believes that and buys into that. But even just a small subset of Trump supporters who believe the election is not a real, is not a valid, is a big problem for all of us.
HARLOW: Let's listen to what -- one of his, you know, biggest name advisors and surrogates, Rudy Giuliani, former New York City Mayor said this morning on CNN to
Jake Tapper about a rigged election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: There are a few places and not many in the swing states. There are a few places where they've been, I'm told, stealing votes, Pennsylvania, Chicago. There's been places where a lot of cheating has gone on over the years. He want me to tell me that I think the election of Philadelphia and Chicago is going to be fair? I would have to be a moron to say that. I mean, I would have to dislearn everything I've learned in 40 years of being a prosecutor.
HARLOW: I felt he was talking about the 2012 election in Philadelphia specifically, and Tapper pointed out to him with the Republican Party of Philadelphia said that that is a baseless claim, they themselves said that. But what -- I mean, what does it mean that even Rudy Giuliani is saying this happens?
PHILIP BUMP, WASHINGTON POST: Well, I think what it means this year is that Rudy Giuliani is fully on team Trump, which we already knew. You know, I'm going to think that it's hard to over -- to overstate the fact there's just -- there's simply no reason to think that the election is rigged, that voter fraud occurs on a scale that would actually affect the results. I mean, if you're going to talk about voter fraud in Chicago, you're talking mostly about going back to the 1960 Presidential Election, which of course is over 50 years ago. You know, I mean this is -- it's simply not the case that elections are decided by voter fraud. In Philadelphia you -- as you said there are -- the State of Pennsylvania admitting there was no voter fraud in the state after that 2012 election. I mean, this -- the question is Brian's right that this is something which obviously the -- having trustworthy elections, many people have confidence in the results of the election is essential to our democracy, but it's not as though there is any evidence out there, right? I mean, this is -- this is a simply a rhetorical point that is absolutely baseless. And I think for that reason alone, it's something that a presidential nominee shouldn't be saying.
HARLOW: But -- and I think the question becomes what kind of behavior does talk like this embolden, right? So, here's a prime example. It's getting a lot of attention, this is a new Boston Globe article. They're tweeting a 50-year-old man, who is a contractor, who is a big Trump supporter. Here's what he told the globe, quote, "If she, Hillary Clinton, is in office, I hope we can start a coup. She should be in prison or shot. That's how I feel about it. We're going to have a revolution and take them out of office, if that's what it takes. There's going to be a lot of bloodshed." And then The Globe goes on to say that he then placed a Trump mask on his face and posed for pictures. So, I mean, the bridge from words to action, Brian.
STELTER: It -- you know, that kind of description, that kind of comment is what I would describe as a fringe view. You know, it's important to say many Trump supporters would condemn that just like many Clinton supporters would. But that said, this is why this issue of this rigged election idea has to come up at the debate on Wednesday. This is why Trump needs to be asked about it in a very forceful way. A couple of weeks ago, at the first debate with Lester Holt, Trump indicated that he would accept the results of the election.
HARLOW: Right.
STELTER: Now, he seems to be wavering again by talking about an idea that these polls are going to be rigged. We just mention to our viewers, polls are run, elections are run on a state level by the democrats and republicans, it's a bipartisan effort. So, even if someone wanted to rig an election, it would be essentially impossible to do so. There are people that investigate, there are ways to prosecute in case of voter fraud when they happen, they're rare, but they do happen. So, there are actually a lot of systems and practices and checks and balances, already in place for this. And Trump is ignoring all of that, which is why the pressure is on Chris Wallace to bring this up on Wednesday. Look, and we know he is a, you know, phenomenal interviewer and he's going to push hard on both sides. Now, question, it will come up, what will the answer be, we'll see. Let's talk about 2012, because this is a new line of thought or things that Tump has said. I mean, Philip, when you look back at his Twitter feed after the night Romney lost on election night in 2012, he called the election a total sham. He said the Electoral College was a disaster for democracy. He also claimed that the Emmy's were rigged. On a different night, he said the process wasn't fair and the awards were, quote "all politics," because, you know, like The Apprentice didn't win. This is not a new line of commenting for Trump. BUMP: Right. Yeah, I mean, Donald Trump hates to lose. He hates to lose, he doesn't want to lose, right? And so, he establishes all these systems were -- it wasn't his fault that he lost. Look at Iowa, the Iowa caucuses is expected to win. Ted Cruz outhustled him on the ground and end up winning the Iowa caucuses that night. Donald Trump was very gracious, he came out and gave very nice speech, but then in following days, he was saying how Ted Cruz cheated and how his folks were, you know, sending a text message of Ben Carson and yada, yada, yada. And this is what Donald Trump does. And it's absolutely the case to Brian -- sorry?
HARLOW: But then, Philip, what is he say if he wins? What is he say if he wins?
BUMP: Well, this is (INAUDIBLE)
HARLOW: Did he won unfairly?
[18:09:56] BUMP: Right. No, I mean, you know, he can't lose on this argument, because then he just enforced the whole thing was fair and I beat the rigged system. I mean, we've seen him make this argument before. And I think it's worth pointing out, that after that first debate, he was fairly close in the polls and that's why, I think he was willing to say, "Oh, no, I will accept the result." He's no longer close in the polls.
STELTER: Yeah. I mean, he hates to lose, but if after Election Day, a sizeable minority of the U.S. population doesn't accept the results. I mean, if they're led by someone like Trump who supports that idea and feeds that idea and promotes it on Twitter and on TV, then we all lose.
HARLOW: I mean -- and you remember what Al Gore did in 2000, right? He conceded, when the Supreme Court came down with their decision, he conceded. And he said, that's it? The decisions were made. Philip, thank you. Brian, thank you very much. Coming up this hour, WikiLeaks releasing more of those hacked Clinton team e-mails. How might this latest dump of stolen information impact the debate on Wednesday? What question will be asked about it? Also, I will speak live with Evan McMullin. He is running for president. He's launched an independent run. And is now in a virtual three-way tie, in a reliably red State of Utah. How he could potentially play spoiler in the state. He won't like it put that way. Also, your money your vote. We travelled across the Battleground States to hear not from the pundits, not the candidates, just from you the voter. We will take you to a swing state next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: WikiLeaks dumping yet another large batch of e-mails. The group says are hacked from the email account of an aid very close to Hillary Clinton. It is an enormous dump of thousands and thousands of pages of e-mails.
[18:15:02] A lot of them personal, a lot of them not interesting to the public, but mixed in those e-mails, some strategic conversations, inner workings of the campaign, things that Clinton insiders probably don't want the rest of the world to see, but now, we're all seeing them. I should note that Clinton's campaign is not saying that these are necessarily true.
Cristina Alesci is here with me to break them down, especially -- probably what is of most interest, these apparent Wall Street speeches she gave to three different Goldman Sachs events, is there a smoking gun?
CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No bombshell to your -- to your point, but it is very embarrassing, and essentially, a lot of these little comments kind of undermine her tough talk on Wall Street. She's been on the campaign trail saying, "Look, I rang the early alarm bells on excessive risk taking on Wall Street. I want to cut back on CEO pay, it's excessive and offensive. And I want to increase tax (INAUDIBLE) for hedge funds." Now, in these events, to your point, we have all these little comments kind of being a little -- the playful and also regurgitating some of the argument that Wall Street kind of wants to hear. And one of them in particular, was a question -- was a response to question about an answer regulation, where she says that it was politically motivated, and we have that excerpt, "For political reasons, if you are -- if you are an elected member of congress and people in your constituency were losing jobs and shutting businesses, and everybody in the press is saying it's all the fault of Wall Street, you can't sit idly by and do nothing.
HARLOW: Right.
ALESCI: Essentially, a critic could look at that and say, "OK, she doesn't really think these guys are responsible for the financial crisis," and that's a big problem for her.
HARLOW: I mean -- and in other e-mails, right, she also talked about, you know, needing the banking system to be involved in regulating itself or contributing to what the regulation would be. I mean, the question is how damming is that, what kind of impact will it really have? Because frankly, of course, if you're going to regulate an industry, you talk to the industry about it, they are part of the discussion.
ALESCI: Part of the discussion. I mean, you raise an excellent point, and I think that's a rational argument to make, but if you look at the Bernie Sanders supporters who she needs to come on board, this isn't going to resonate well with them, right?
HARLOW: That's a great point, right.
ALESCI: Because he made such a big deal of out these speeches, right? He elevated these speeches. And now, everyone is paying attention and picking them apart, and even her own aides were worried about these speeches getting out, right? There was even a point where if you actually dug a little deeper into these conversations, an aide said that they should leak some part of the speech that was more critical, and that more critical part on Wall Street was planted in there, so that they would have something to point to.
HARLOW: Something to leak, that was for the Deutsche Bank audience, right?
ALESCI: Exactly. Exactly. So, you could see that her people were concerned about this.
HARLOW: Well -- and the fact that they reportedly wrote something in the speech seemingly harder on Wall Street so that they could leak that to sort of placate the demands.
ALESCI: Yeah, it's quite incredible.
HARLOW: Incredible. Thank you.
ALESCI: Of course.
HARLOW: Cristina Alesci, we appreciate it. The third Presidential Debate is Wednesday night, and you can bet that'll come up, and Wall Street will be watching closely along with the rest of the country. CNN Money Correspondent Alison Kosik has a look at how the debate could shape the trading week.
ALISON KOSIK, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: You're right Poppy, the final debate is crucial for Wall Street. Investors have priced in that Clinton will win the election, especially if republicans keep the house and senate. Gridlock on a congress that doesn't pass major legislation, are actually pluses for Wall Street. Investors don't like uncertainty, they actually prefer the status quo. So, the focus now is on state and local races, but with the recent allegations about Donald Trump, it's increasingly possible the senate and maybe even the house could flip to the democrats and that could allow senators like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren to push for stiffer regulations on Wall Street and could make it easier for Clinton to install big tax hikes on the rich. That makes investors nervous so a strong Trump performance at the debate could put less pressure on those down ballot races. Poppy?
HARLOW: Alison, thank you very much.
Up next, here for us, more on those hacked e-mails from WikiLeaks. How could it impact the debate on Wednesday? What questions will be asked? How will Hillary Clinton answer, if it all? I will see -- say yes, they are legitimate, and will Donald Trump seize on this new information? We'll discuss it all next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00] HARLOW: Today, another large batch of stolen e-mails connected to the Hillary Clinton campaign went public through WikiLeaks, and a document dump, it is a high-tech security breach that Clinton insiders are comparing to Watergate. You make your own mind up on that.
Ryan Lizza with us, he's our Political Commentator. Ryan, also, of course, the Washington Correspondent for the New Yorker. Ryan, let's dive in first to these Wall Street speeches, right?
RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. HARLOW: Cristina just went through them, the Goldman Sachs speeches showing a different persona in front of these bankers than to the public, certainly in the primary, when she was running against Bernie Sanders. I think the question becomes how much does that hurt her as she tries to get these Sanders supporters on board and enthused to go to the polls?
LIZZA: You know, it is a good question. There's no doubt that one of her weaknesses is with the -- is with that segments of the left, especially millennial men. They have never been enthusiastic about Hillary Clinton. And this, frankly, I think will confirm a lot of the beliefs of those on the left, that Hillary Clinton in private is a moderate, and was never really that enthusiastic with this sort of anti-Wall Street, anti-bank populism.
HARLOW: Right, she's no Elizabeth Warren.
[18:24:54] LIZZA: She's no Elizabeth Warren. And, you know, she was kind of faking it a little bit in the primaries, and, you know, you see this through several issues in these e-mails. So, I think it could cause her a little bit of trouble with that one segment of the electorate.
HARLOW: So another segment -- I mean, when you look at union workers who Trump has certainly been talking to and trying to get on board, this solidly blue block, apparently, according to another WikiLeaks dump, and the Clinton campaign hasn't said that these are indeed actual e-mails, but they haven't said they're false either. She was apparently speaking to a group of union workers behind closed doors and it was emailed about that apparently, she said, talking about environmentalists and activists, they come to my rallies, they yell at me, and you know the rest of it. They say, "Well, you promised to never take any fossil fuels out of the earth again," and I say, "No, I won't promise that. Get a life, you know?" Saying to the (INAUDIBLE) activists, "Get a life," and then she goes on to say, "I want to defend repairing and building pipelines." That's in private. In public, she comes out against keystone.
LIZZA: She came out against keystone which in other -- some other e- mails that suggest there was some turbulence in the campaign about that one, because previously, as Secretary of State, she seemed to indicate that she was OK with Keystone. And look, here in this meeting with union officials, she's trying to balance two key constituencies in the Democratic Party. Unions who depend on jobs and construction jobs in the pipeline world, and in general, the oil services world, and environmentalists, who are coming to her rally, and to be honest, fairly extreme environmentalists if you're saying no hydro carbon should ever come out of the ground again. I mean, most environmentalists are OK with natural gas as a transition fuel. But anyway, it's her balancing these two and as she did with Black Lives Matter, or initially showing a little bit of frustration, and as she did with the young Bernie Sanders supporters, showing frustration with the young millennial left who at points in the campaign she just thought didn't get how politics works.
HARLOW: All right. Ryan Lizza, thank you. We appreciate it. LIZZA: OK. Thank you, Poppy.
HARLOW: We'll see how it's brought up, how she responds on Wednesday in the debate. Coming up next, the economy's top of mind for voters across the United States. We hit the road in the key Battleground States including Ohio, to hear from voters directly. Don't miss it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK
[18:30:05] HARLOW: Welcome back. We have been traveling across the key swing states to hear firsthand from you, the voter, about this election and how much your vote has to do with your wallet and your personal economy. What we found in the Buckeye State of Ohio is that their economic concerns for many people there run deep.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTA SHOCKEY, OHIO VOTER: A lot of businesses have closed up, and people lost their jobs.
SIERRA LESLEY, OHIO VOTER: Low income, poverty, hurting for jobs.
HARLOW (voice-over): Economic pain shared from one end of the Buckeye State to the other.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once they get in there, they're thinking they got a good job, and next thing you know, they're getting cut.
HARLOW (voice-over): These voters come from different cities and circumstances, but they all live in state so critical, no candidate has won the White House without winning Ohio since 1960.
SCOTT HAMMOND, OHIO VOTER: I'm 49 years old. I've voted in every election since I was 18. I'm disgusted.
HARLOW (voice-over): In a state where unemployment is under 5 percent and more than 200,000 jobs have been added since 2012, there are still many people who feel left behind here.
HARLOW (on camera): This neighborhood in Cleveland, Ohio was one of the strongest for President Obama in 2012. Mitt Romney did not get a single vote from people living in these homes, not one. People living here have been struggling economically for a long time and they still are. So the question is, will they come out in droves for Hillary Clinton the way they did for President Obama?
JEANNIE WHITTAKER, OHIO VOTER: Hillary?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Hillary is the best candidate.
WHITTAKER: That's a no brainer.
HARLOW: Are you as excited about Hillary Clinton as a candidate as you were for Barack Obama?
S. LESLEY: Actually, I'm more excited about it.
TARA LESLEY: You know, she's more so for low income people and trying to build us up as far as jobs and educational needs.
HARLOW (voice-over): Rowena Washington bought a home here.
ROWENA WASHINGTON, OHIO VOTER: New houses. It's peaceful and quiet. All the more reason we need to keep the country going into positive direction. There's been ups and downs, but you definitely are seeing the true American dream. And I say they will be crazy not to get out and vote for Hillary. She's definitely the person.
HARLOW (voice-over): But there have been decades of economic despair here, and there's a dwindling faith that politicians will help.
JEFF CROSBY, OHIO VOTER: I think the Democratic platform is saying the same thing we have heard they've been saying for about the past 50 years. I haven't --
HARLOW: Over and over?
CROSBY: Over and over.
HARLOW: Since the war on poverty was declared?
CROSBY: Yes.
HARLOW (voice-over): Jeff Crosby used to be in gangs. That landed in him prison. Now, he's working to keep kids from the same life he lived.
CROSBY: I deal with kids that some of them have no hope. I deal with kids that have been shot before. Some kids have shot people. I've dealt with people that are really knee-deep in the street. It's one of the highest crime areas in Cleveland.
HARLOW: This is?
CROSBY: Yes. About 10 gangs over here. Oh, what's up?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's up?
CROSBY: How you've been? You good?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. How you doing?
CROSBY: I think the Democratic Party is taking us for granted. The Republican Party literally ignores us, except for Trump. Trump is striving, striving to make end roads but he is a polarizing figure.
HARLOW (voice-over): As for his vote, he's undecided but decidedly against Donald Trump.
CROSBY: I do not like how he talks about women, I think he's insensitive to our race, and I think it's despicable what he said about disabled people. HARLOW (voice-over): But he sees the problems many of his mentees
face today as a product of the 1994 Crime Bill signed into law by then President Bill Clinton.
CROSBY: I think a lot of people are incarcerated that didn't need to be incarcerated.
HARLOW (voice-over): Many here calling for change, but they don't think Trump can make their America great again.
WHITTAKER: I just don't trust Donald, that's all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because he got money? That ain't everything.
S. LESLY: I'm willing to vote for a clown before Donald trump.
HARLOW: Really?
S. LESLY: Yes. With a red nose. I do agree with Republicans sometimes, but I don't agree with nothing that Donald Trump is standing for.
HARLOW (voice-over): But living in the same public housing here, we met James Pierce who couldn't disagree anymore.
JAMES PIERCE, OHIO VOTER: I believe that Hillary slash Obama is just giving it all away so that people can be lazy and that people with the job pay for it.
HARLOW: You live in housing that is paid for by the government.
PIERCE: Yes, but there's circumstances to that, why I'm there. I mean, I'm trying to better myself. As soon as I can work and get on my feet, I'm not there anymore.
HARLOW (voice-over): And that brings us to the second part of this Ohio chapter, 200 miles south.
HARLOW (on camera): We're in Pike County, Ohio, and this place matters a lot. Not for the number of votes here, but because of what it represents. It used to be solidly blue, but it's been moving more and more red.
[18:35:06] In 2012, this was the closest county in the country. Mitt Romney won here by a single vote. Just one vote. It's 96 percent White, largely blue collar, and unemployment here is high. These are exactly the voters Donald Trump has been speaking to.
HAMMOND: I'd say right now, you're looking at a coin toss.
HARLOW: A coin toss among union workers who, until now, have been solidly blue. Have you ever seen anything like that before?
HAMMOND: No.
HARLOW (voice-over): Many see Donald Trump as their best shot at getting ahead.
BILL STANLEY, OHIO VOTER: He gets a lot of things that is amazing that he was telling us he can do for us.
HARLOW (voice-over): Since 2000, Ohio has lost nearly a third of its manufacturing jobs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump, a businessman, yes, I like that about him.
STANLEY: If he can run, like I said, a big Trump Plaza, he can run this big town and the whole United States.
CENDI JEAN NEWBERRY, OHIO VOTER: He's a businessman.
HARLOW: What do you know about Donald Trump's business history that gives you the confidence that he is a successful businessman?
NEWBERRY: First of all, he had a television show.
HARLOW (voice-over): At a local bar after work.
HARLOW (on camera): The three of you, you make a good living. You can support your family, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HARLOW: You're among the lucky ones.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HARLOW: So the quote, unquote Obama economy has worked for you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
RANDY BARR, OHIO VOTER: Well --
HARLOW: Am I right?
BARR: -- in a sense.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BARR: But I don't think it's worked for a lot of other people, a lot of medium income people in low --
HARLOW: So you're voting for other people?
BARR: Well, yes, I'm voting to help the small guy. I still think I'm a small guy. But, yes, I mean, I haven't seen wages, you know, increase, jobs increase as much as what I thought everything would. HARLOW (voice-over): We went for lunch at Diner 23. Krista Shockey
lives on government funded disability benefits and she plans on voting for Trump.
HARLOW (on camera): What do you like about Donald Trump the most?
KRISTA SHOCKEY, OHIO VOTER: He's running against Hillary Clinton.
HARLOW (voice-over): Her friend, Cendi Jean Newberry, says this economy is not working for her.
NEWBERRY: I go to a food bank. That's how bad it is. And sometimes, I stay at her home in the winter because I don't have a heat.
HARLOW (voice-over): She plans to vote for Trump.
HARLOW (on camera): You're a lifelong Democrat?
CHARLIE SALTKIELD, OHIO VOTER: Yes.
HARLOW: So you're voting for Hillary this time around?
SALTKIELD: No, I'm not.
HARLOW: No?
SALTKIELD: My dad was a coal miner. They put the coal miners out of work.
HARLOW (voice-over): That doesn't sit well here especially among union folks.
HARLOW (on camera): You're angry at President Obama?
HAMMOND: I'm angry for what he's done to our business.
HARLOW: So Donald Trump says he's the one to bring these jobs back?
HAMMOND: Donald Trump is saying that. That's total propaganda. Where is his merchandise made? What does he have to offer to American industry? Nothing. Are you telling me that those are the best two candidates for the presidency of the United States? I don't buy that.
HARLOW (voice-over): We left Ohio asking this question. Why does economic pain from one town to the next push some people left and others right?
WHITTAKER: They say money is the root of all evil, but that's not true. The lack of money is the root of all evil.
HARLOW (voice-over): So what's the solution?
WHITTAKER: People get out there and vote.
HARLOW (voice-over): It's your money, your vote.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: We should note that this special was filmed before the 2005 "Access Hollywood" tape of Donald Trump surfaced, so we called back all of the Trump supporters we interviewed. Nearly everyone with the exception of just a few are still supporting Donald trump, and they say they will vote for him.
Coming up, a Utah poll shows voters split between Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump and Evan McMullin. If you are not familiar with that name, Evan McMullin, you will be in three minutes. A live chat with the presidential candidate, next.
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[18:42:38] HARLOW: We have seen a lot of polls this is election, but last week, one poll out of Utah really stood out. It showed a virtual three-way tie in the presidential race, Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton and Evan McMullin.
If you haven't heard the name, Evan McMullin, you are not alone. He is a former CIA operative and chief policy director for the House Republican Conference who refused to back Donald Trump and, instead, threw his hat in the race and is running for President, declaring his candidacy back on August 8th.
He's also a Utah native who is drawing big crowds in his home state -- he joins me now -- in over the past 48 hours. Thank you for being here, Evan.
EVAN MCMULLIN, (IND) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Great to be with you, Poppy. Thanks for having me.
HARLOW: Of course. Look, I mean, you guys are all neck and neck. You're all in the mid-20s in this latest Utah poll. So let me get your take on the Republican candidate because, over the last 48 hours, Donald Trump has said several times that he believes this election is rigged, and you tweeted this in response.
You tweeted, "Donald Trump is actively undermining our democracy by attacking its legitimacy just as Putin does and GOP leaders remain complicit."
You are a former Republican. Are you saying you think the entire Republican Party and Republican leadership is attacking the legitimacy of this democracy?
MCMULLIN: Well, no, not the entire leadership and not the entire party. But the party leaders are standing with Donald Trump even as he attacks the legitimacy of our democracy, so they are complicit. It's just that they cannot escape responsible for this if they're going to continue to back him. And I would go a step further. They cannot escape responsibility for this if they're not willing to stand up and say what they're for and to even actively oppose him.
It's not enough for those who have condemned him or withdrawn their support of him. That's not enough. That's not leadership. They need to stand up and say what they are for and fight for that.
HARLOW: It's interesting because a week ago, just a week ago, you know, a number of leading Republicans like John McCain, like others, pulled their endorsement from Trump because of the 2005 "Access Hollywood" tape that came out. We're not seeing many pull their endorsement because he's doubling down on these rigged election comments.
MCMULLIN: Yes, that's right, which is just a total shock to me. I mean, as you mentioned, I'm a veteran of the Central Intelligence Agency, and it's very clear that Donald Trump is helping Vladimir Putin undermine our process, our democracy, just as he's done in Europe.
[18:45:12] And our intelligence services are saying, even publicly, that this is happening yet the Republicans are nowhere to be found in condemning this or pulling their support in general from Donald Trump. It's absolutely unacceptable. But this is just one of the many things that is unacceptable about the relationship that Donald Trump has with the GOP.
Look, this country needs leaders who will stand up for the country and stand up for liberty and our democracy and for Americans. Right now, we have a Republican nominee who attacks Americans based on the color of their skin, their gender, their ethnicity, their religion, all of that. Meanwhile, Republican leaders just go along.
HARLOW: But you --
MCMULLIN: And I just question the ability of people to lead if that's what they're going to do.
HARLOW: One thing you can't question, though, is the voters and the number of voters that came out voting for, nearly 14 million, Donald Trump in the primary.
You also tweeted this. You said, "If this election is close, then we can block both Clinton and Trump from getting 270 votes and take the election to the House."
If that were to happen, that's a long shot, but if that were to happen, wouldn't you be concerned about most Americans, you know, not being willing to accept the legitimacy of that, their voices being heard? Is that the kind of election you want?
MCMULLIN: Well, I wouldn't say that. Only 9 percent of Americans voted for Hillary Clinton or Donald trump. Both of these candidates have historically high negative ratings. The American people are not happy with these two choices. If they were, this would be the last thing I'd be doing. That's the reality.
And in fact, the process that you just laid out which is, you know, not a strong possibility as long as Hillary Clinton is dominating Donald Trump by such a large margin, but if we were able to block them both, this is a process that is part of our democracy.
HARLOW: And I think the --
MCMULLIN: It's laid out very clearly in the constitution.
HARLOW: All right. Evan, I'm getting breaking news in my ear. I'm sorry. I will have you back because you deserve more time.
MCMULLIN: Sure.
HARLOW: I'm sorry about this. Thank you, Evan.
MCMULLIN: Thank you, Poppy. Thank you.
HARLOW: Breaking news into CNN. In Iraq, an offensive to retake the key city of Mosul from ISIS is now under way. Mosul has been in the hands of ISIS for the last two years, and it is the terror group's last stronghold within Iraq.
Our Ben Wedeman is near Erbi, Iraq. Ben, what do we know?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, just a few moments ago, Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi finished a televised speech on Iraqi Television declaring that the operation to liberate Mosul has begun. As you mentioned, that was a city that was occupied by ISIS since June of 2014.
He said that the offensive would focus primarily on forces of the Iraqi Anti-Terrorism Service as well as the Kurdish Peshmerga -- that's what they call the fighters here -- and that the operation will focus on trying to avoid civilian casualties.
He called upon the people of Mosul which, at this point, amount to somewhere between 700,000 and a million civilians, to cooperate with the Iraqi forces as they enter their city on this historic final battle for the second largest city in Iraq.
HARLOW: As you mentioned, the second largest city in Iraq, also as we noted, the last real ISIS stronghold of a major, major area in Iraq. But when you look at ISIS, the terror group, in largest context, Ben, speak to me about the strategic importance of Mosul falling in terms of ISIS holding control. They've held control for two years. Speak about the strategic importance for ISIS across the region.
WEDEMAN: Well, it certainly represents, perhaps, the largest loss in terms of important cities for ISIS to date. This was the largest city that ISIS controlled. It's where it Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi announced on the 29th of June his so-called caliphate.
Now, if you look at what has happened in Iraq in the last two and a half years, ISIS, in early 2015, reached the high point in terms of its control of territory. Since then, it has lost 50 percent of the territory it once controlled and only controls about 10 percent of Iraq, unlike before when they controlled cities like Ramadi, Fallujah, Tikrit, and Baiji. So they really are sort of on their last legs in terms of territorial control in Iraq.
[18:50:10] And in Syria, we've seen similarly that ISIS has steadily been losing ground. Just today, it was announced by Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army fighters that they had taken the town of Dabiq in northern Syria. And, of course, that town figures highly in a saying of the Prophet Muhammad that there, the armies of Rome and the Muslim world would meet for a battle that would mark the beginning of the end of days.
Certainly, what we see in Syria and even in Libya, as well as Iraq, is that steadily, slowly perhaps, today perhaps, the beginning of a more dramatic move, ISIS is being pushed back perhaps to the point, months down the line, to the point of extinction.
HARLOW: Wow. To hear those words, Ben, ISIS potentially being pushed to extinction months down the road. As you have said in your reporting, this will be a messy and prolonged battle, but it speaks to the significance of Mosul in Iraq and the significance of it to ISIS' strategy, a city that they have held, again, for two years.
Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi taking to the airwaves there, taking to television in Iraq. Can you speak to what the people of Mosul, what they have gone through in the last 24 hours or so? I understand that leaflets were dropped from the air, telling them to stay inside and stay secure.
WEDEMAN: Yes. Of course, those leaflets also included a phone number to call if they need help, if they want to know how to get out of the city. The Iraqi authorities are eager to avoid a mass exodus of the residents of Mosul because U.N. agencies and NGOs will tell you, they just don't have the resources to deal with potentially 700,000, potentially a million people, rushing out of that city.
What they've endured in the last 24 hours is they've been witnessing intense bombardment of the city and its outskirts. They have seen many ISIS fighters seem to have disappeared off the streets. They've seen, for instance, the prisons. Prisoners have been released. Not prisoners held for political reasons, but rather people who hadn't shaved, who had shaved, who are smoking cigarettes, who are wearing western clothing. The prisoners have been forced to dig or help dig a network of tunnels and trenches around the city.
We understand that food is in short supply. There's very little fuel available for ordinary citizens. Most people are simply staying at home, staying put. They've been instructed by the Iraqi authorities, when the forces, Iraqi forces, enter the city, to put up white flags to indicate that they are not combatants. That's the tactic that has been used in the past.
Now, Prime Minister al-Abadi did say that -- you know, call upon the inhabitants of Mosul to cooperate with Iraqi security forces, as they have in other operations, to drive ISIS out of the cities, and that they should cooperate and inform the security forces if they know where ISIS positions are.
So this is the culmination of months of work by Iraqi intelligence and PSYOPs units to try to lay the ground for this very operation that is going on. And what we've seen, certainly within the last year, is the emergence of resistance groups that have been fighting ISIS from within Mosul. And, of course, they've been come to -- they're known by writing the letter "M," mim, in Arabic on lots of walls and doors. That stands for "muqawama," which means resistance.
So, certainly, we have seen a growing tide of resistance of violence by the inhabitants of Mosul against ISIS, which, initially, was -- it should be important to note -- gridded by some residents of Mosul who are unhappy with the heavy hand of the Baghdad government. But after two and a half years of ISIS rule, they seem to have changed their minds.
HARLOW: Ben, stay with me -- Ben Wedeman is live for us tonight in Erbil, Iraq -- because I'm going to bring in Arwa Damon, our CNN international correspondent. She is literally hillside right now near Mosul, Iraq.
It is the middle of the night, almost two o'clock in the morning there, Arwa. I know it is difficult to obviously see any of these operations. What are you hearing? What can you tell us?
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we have been hearing fighter jets overhead. We've been hearing what sounds like artillery in the distance at this stage. The troop morale, whether it's the Peshmerga or the Iraqi army that we've been speaking to over the course of the last 24 hours are fairly confident at this stage.
[18:55:11] They do acknowledge that it is it is potentially going to be a very long and difficult battle, one that they have been preparing for, but they do feel, at the end of the day, ultimately, they will be able to recapture the strategic city of Mosul from ISIS.
But they don't necessarily know exactly what to expect, Poppy. And you were hearing, Ben, describing some of the activity that ISIS has been undergoing, such as that underground tunnel complex that is being dug. They're also anticipating similar ISIS tactics that they've been seeing in the past, such as booby trapped homes, roads and lanes with roadside bombs, suicide bombers, suicide car bombers.
ISIS is expected to put up a fairly significant fight, especially when it comes to the western part of the city of Mosul itself. And Ben was also mentioning there the Mosul battalions' activities, with the letter "M" for "muqawama" as he stated.
We do know that, especially over the course of the last few months, these underground, secret battalions have been launching small-scale operations against ISIS, things like targeted assassinations. And they also have been, according to sources that we spoke to a few weeks ago, doing things like digging up IEDs that ISIS had put into place and then using them against them.
And they, according to what they were telling us, are waiting for a strategic moment when the forces are able to get closer to the city to then rise up from within. There is also a separate battalion that is at the ready inside Mosul that is meant to rise up once the forces begin to enter the city. And this particular battalion's role is to try to ensure that the kind of chaos that we saw erupt in Baghdad in 2003 after the U.S.-led invasion does not happen in Mosul itself.
But, again, this has been a much anticipated operation, one that is very significant when it comes to not just trying to rid Iraq's territory of ISIS, but also more broadly speaking, when it comes to the battle against ISIS in and itself now, just finally being announced by Iraq's Prime Minister as having just begun.
But, again, we are really, at this moment, in its first initial minutes.
HARLOW: Arwa, there are still a million, at least a million, civilians inside Mosul. Just to give our viewers, especially here in the United States and around the world who are just joining us, a sense of the magnitude of how big this city is, a million civilians here. This is a city that has been held by ISIS for, now, two years. It is strategically, incredibly, incredibly important.
Speak to what this says about the Obama administration's strategy in terms of building up local Iraqi forces to try to defeat ISIS. What does this say about that strategy?
DAMON: Well, the U.S. has been approaching this very differently to its previous presence in Iraq. In the past, when the U.S. occupation was well underway, even while they were training and advising and assisting the troops back then, the Americans were still very much in the lead. And what they've tried to do this time around is ensure that it is an Iraqi operation. There are not going to be Americans on the ground breaking down doors like we saw in the past. They are in an advisory role.
But, of course, what is very crucial here is the assets that the U.S. brings to the table. And what's been very interesting in speaking to Iraqi commanders is how this new dynamic has boosted their confidence.
Remember, the American-trained Iraqi security forces were, at the end of the day, the ones that were very ineffectual and did not stand and fight in Mosul. They fled fairly quickly and they left behind tanks, artillery, weapons that had been, to a certain degree, provided by the United States to the Iraqi security forces that then ended up in ISIS' hand, American Humvees being driven around by ISIS.
Throughout the course of the last two years, as the U.S. has attempted to rebuild the Iraqi security forces, especially those that were part of the Nineveh Operations Command, we also did actually see their confidence being boosted as they moved forward.
In the beginning, they were struggling greatly. It would take them weeks, if not longer, just to be able to capture a village. But with that increase in U.S. air support, with that boost in confidence, and as they moved forward and got closer to Mosul, they told us that not only did they feel, yes, more confident in their own capabilities, but that they also saw ISIS, to a certain degree, beginning to change its tactics.
