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Trump and Pence Disagree on Rigged Election; Ohio Secretary of State Interview; Clinton E-mails; Hacked Clinton Speeches. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired October 17, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:15] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Hi, there. He we go. Start of the work week. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

Let's begin this hour with claims by Donald Trump that the election is a scam and that the results cannot be trusted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: And remember this, it's a rigged election, because you have phony people coming up with phony allegations, with no witnesses whatsoever, ending up from 20 years ago, 30 years ago.

The process is rigged. This whole election is being rigged. These lies spread by the media, without witnesses, without backup, or anything else.

The election is being rigged by corrupt media pushing false allegations and outright lies in an effort to elect Hillary Clinton president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And while at first it seems Trump may be suggesting the media is rigging the election with its coverage, Trump then doubled down, tweeting out a wild and unfounded claim. Let me read his tweet. Quote, "of course there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before Election Day. Why do Republican leaders deny what is going on? So naive."

Keep in mind here, for - for there to be a widespread voter fraud issue, which, P.S., there isn't, it would have to happen in tossup states with Republican governors. You have Florida, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nevada, Ohio, Michigan, Maine, Georgia, Arizona, all Republican governors. That would mean that Trump is suggesting that these Republican executives of these states would be complicit in handing the election to Hillary Clinton. Just think on that for a second. And while his surrogates are backing him up, many Republicans are backing away, including, on this precise point, his own running mate, Governor Mike Pence.

Let's begin with Dana Bash, our CNN chief political correspondent. Let's talk about Governor Pence. What has his response been to Trump's

rigged claims?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he had been sort of the one-outlier with regard to trump surrogates. Trump surrogates - the few who are still out there on TV, Rudy Giuliani, Jeff Sessions, these are Republican officials -

BALDWIN: Newt Gingrich.

BASH: Newt Gingrich, have been backing Donald Trump pretty wholeheartedly saying, no, no, we're talking about cities that are run by Democrats where they say that they're - I mean they're going back to like JFK in 1960 talking about dead people voting in Chicago, a alleging more recent issues with multiple people voting in places like Philadelphia.

Taking those allegations aside, they're trying to back him up. Mike Pence has been, you know, sounding more like the Paul Ryans and other Republican secretaries of state that we've seen on our air and elsewhere saying, we're going to make sure that there is no fraud and that the election results will be respect.

And it really just goes to show, Brooke, that, you know, the fact that you have Paul Ryan, who has been reluctant to keep this public war of words going on with Donald Trump that started last week, which has been very detrimental to Paul Ryan, that he felt that he had to speak out through a spokesman over the weekend to say, no, no, no, the election results are going to be respected, kind of tells you everything you need to know about how uncomfortable many Republicans are with this closing argument from Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes. But despite that, and despite the bus tape and despite the double digits now of accusers against Donald Trump, you've seen the numbers. Let me just show everyone watching who's following all of this closely with the rest of us, it is still a tight race in three battleground states. Look at this with me, Nevada, North Carolina, and Ohio. It is so, so close.

And so my question is, if you have, you know, Hillary Clinton saying essentially, I'm the last thing standing between you and the apocalypse, yet you look at the numbers, how do you - what do you make of this?

BASH: Well, that's part of the strategy that Donald Trump is trying to employ here. Look, he is going back to the primary. He is going back to the notion and the argument that worked so successfully back then, which is, it's us, meaning Trump and his supporters, again the establishment, against the media, against the rigged system, against, you know, everybody and everything that is considered, for lack of a better way to say it, the man, and he's kind of the leader to buck the system.

That's where he is going because, again, it was successfully, obviously. He is the nominee. Never mind that it's a whole different ball game right now because he's got those people he needs to get beyond the base and to bring other people in.

BALDWIN: Right.

[14:05:04] BASH: But he's clearly trying to make sure that the - that the Trump supporters out there are highly, highly energized and get out the vote and tell their friends to get out the vote. And that's partly of why he's doing this, in addition to, let's be honest, laying the groundwork for, if he loses, blaming somebody other than himself.

BALDWIN: Right. Right. Lots of possibilities here looking ahead as to why he's saying this. Dana, thank you so much.

On the notion that he's saying this is rigged, wide scale vote fraud, let me bring in a man who believes Trump's claims here are without any evidence is quote "irresponsible." He is the Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted, a Republican whose office oversees the state's elections process.

So, Secretary Husted, so nice to meet you. Thank you so much for coming on.

JON HUSTED (R), OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE: Glad to be with you.

BALDWIN: Before we get to these quote/unquote "rigged" claims, I just have to ask you, the news of the day here, we know that Trump, over the weekend, cut ties with the head of the Republican Party in your state. A state that arguably, you know, is what one needs to win the White House. What do you make of that?

HUSTED: Well, it's been - there's been a lot of controversy between the Ohio Republican Party and Donald Trump. Donald Trump is running his own campaign in our state largely and they just decided that they were going to break ties, that they wanted to sever it clean, and there's been a lot of disagreement, but I don't - I don't think that in the end the average person in Ohio cares too much about that inside stuff.

BALDWIN: OK. You say it's inside stuff. How about the outside stuff, the stuff that's been made very public? How trump, you know, and he did this during the primaries when he wasn't doing so well, he didn't when he was winning and now again he's repeating this claim that it's rigged, the system is rigged, that there's wide-spread voter fraud. Your response there in Ohio?

HUSTED: Well, as a Republican, I want to reassure Donald Trump and all Ohio voters and voters across the country that the system is not rigged. That there are elections officials across this country that - that - this is their job. They take it very personally. We try to fulfil the goal of making it easy to vote and hard to cheat in Ohio. And I know that many of my colleagues who are secretaries of state around the country feel the same way.

Our leaders need to build confidence in American democracy, not undermine it. Elections in America today are more secure than they've ever been and I would encourage Donald Trump to move on from this issue and focus on building peoples' hopes for America's future, not undermining them.

BALDWIN: Can - can I just - let me follow up to that and channel Trump supporters, many of whom I've spoken with, and their question to you, sir, would be, why should I believe?

HUSTED: Well, we have a bipartisan system in this state. This is not - this is not run by the secretary of state. It's run by your neighbors who work at the polls on Election Day. It's run by Democrats and Republicans at the local level. Frankly, this is one of the only places where Democrats and Republicans work well together that you'll see when you go to the polls on Election Day that you have Democrats and Republicans working there cooperatively, checking identification, making sure that people are properly registered in full. But and then when we go count the votes on election night, that's an open public meeting. The media is there. The public's invited. It's all very transparent.

BALDWIN: OK.

HUSTED: And I want to reassure folks that this system works very well.

BALDWIN: Just so I'm clear, just because this man, Mr. Trump, cut ties with the Republican Party in your state, says this is rigged, you are still voting for him, correct?

HUSTED: Yes, because I have - I have really not very many good choices. I don't believe that what Hillary Clinton has done qualifies her to be president. I'm very disappointed in her. I'm very disappointed in the way Donald Trump is running his campaign. But in the end, I care about who's appointed to the Supreme Court, who's going to be the defense secretary, the secretary of the Treasury, and I believe that Donald Trump will make better appointments there than Hillary Clinton. But like most Americans, I'm not - I'm not thrilled with my choices.

BALDWIN: Jon Husted, I think you are not alone, having spoken with a lot of people in this country. Thank you so much. Good luck on Election Day. Thank you, sir.

HUSTED: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Here with me to discuss, I have CNN political commentator Bill Press, who supports Hillary Clinton, and Trump surrogate here, Matt Schlapp, who used to be the political director for George W. Bush.

Gentlemen, nice to have you back.

BILL PRESS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi.

BALDWIN: Matt - Matt Schlapp, to this point of -

MATT SCHLAPP, TRUMP SURROGATE: Why did I know this? Why did I know this?

BALDWIN: How - how - you know I'm coming to you first. I have love for you, Matt Schlapp, but I also have to press you because if you have Trump saying - and you just heard the secretary of state of Ohio saying it's not rigged, it's not rigged, it's not rigged, but Trump still says that it is, is that really a smart argument to make three weeks out of Election Day?

SCHLAPP: Yes, I like the idea that he's running against the media, Brooke, no offense. I think that's actually a smart tactic. By and large, most people in this country believe that the media, the mainstream media, tends to tilt a little left. Sometimes there are worse episodes than others. And I think he's smart to take them on. Most Republicans are scared to take on -

[14:10:05] BALDWIN: But - but - but take the media out of it.

SCHLAPP: Sure.

BALDWIN: Let me - let me just - I won't' take office. Let me just take the media out of it. Trump is saying the polling -

SCHLAPP: It's not aimed at you.

BALDWIN: But Trump is saying it's the polling places, it's the polling stations.

SCHLAPP: Right.

BALDWIN: It's the offices of the secretary of state.

SCHLAPP: Right.

BALDWIN: That's what's rigged. Why do that?

SCHLAPP: Look, it's a - it's a tactic to try to get everybody to realize that every vote matters. Every single person that is even considering voting for Donald Trump - we all know what's going on in the minds of a lot of voters. You just had the previous secretary of state of Ohio. There are a lot of voters out there who are saying, OK, there are things about Donald Trump's message I love. There are things about what he has said I don't like, but yet I'm looking at Hillary Clinton, the most recent revelations (ph) coming from WikiLeaks and these (INAUDIBLE) shows that she is someone that I believe to be just corrupt. So voters are having to make this choice. And if every person realizes that, hey, North Carolina, Nevada, Ohio, Florida, could come down to be very, very, very tight in the end, every vote matters and he wants them all to vote. Do I think this is -

BALDWIN: To your point - no -

SCHLAPP: The whole system is corrupt? I don't. I don't think our whole voting system is corrupt. And he's going to accept -

BALDWIN: Thank you, because it's not.

SCHLAPP: That's right. And, look, I've spent a lot of time in that. I've spent 36 days in the Florida recount. I was in the Dade County Courthouse when they tried to take the counting behind closed doors. I think we have a very - pretty transparent process and I think he said he's going to accept the election results. Mike Pence has said the same thing and I will as well.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Bill.

PRESS: I was just going to say, Donald Trump has not - he said in the first debate, he will accept the results of the election.

SCHLAPP: Yes, he did.

PRESS: He hasn't said it since. In the last couple of days, in fact, he's indicated that he would not - let me just say something. If I were setting up my - if I knew that I was going to lose probably the biggest Electoral College loss since Barry Goldwater, I'd be looking for somebody else to blame, wouldn't you, Matt? I'd be looking for somebody else.

But let me tell you something, this is just the latest in the Donald Trump conspiracy theories with zero evidence. There's zero evidence that Hillary Clinton took drugs before the last debate, zero evidence that Barack Obama was born in Kenya, zero evidence that nine women - those nine women were lying, and zero evidence that this election is corrupt. And beyond that, I think it is dangerous and un-American for Donald Trump to suggest because it undermines everybody's confidence in the electoral process, whether you're a Republican or Democrat.

SCHLAPP: It's not un-American.

BALDWIN: But hang on, Matt, because I want to -

PRESS: Yes, it is.

BALDWIN: I want to press Bill because, still, despite everything that we have covered in the last however many weeks - and, by the way, this thing's been going on 17 months. And now what you just outlined, still, when you look at some of these polls, and throw them up on the screen, Becky, if we can, there are, you know, no huge changes, also in some of her favorability ratings. It is so, so close in Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio. You know, she's not on the trail at time. You still have this drip, drip, drip from WikiLeaks, which reinforces what Americans are worried about, about her. How do you explain that, Bill?

PRESS: Well, I think Matt and I would agree on this point. We have said from the beginning, this is going to be a close election. There is a lot of -

BALDWIN: But why?

PRESS: I'll tell you why.

BALDWIN: OK.

PRESS: Because I was just about to say -

BALDWIN: OK.

PRESS: There is a lot of -

SCHLAPP: Bernie Sanders was right.

PRESS: There's a lot of frustration with the establishment. The political establishment, the media establishment, the financial establishment, but Donald Trump is not the answer. And I just want to point out, nothing against CNN, but there are other measures out there - let's look at the University of Virginia, Larry Sabato, one of the best in the business. Today, his count is - I checked it on the way up, 347 electoral votes for Hillary Clinton, 191 for Donald Trump, and zero still up for -

SCHLAPP: Could I add -

PRESS: Zero still up for grabs. I think this is going to be an Electoral College landslide.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Matt.

SCHLAPP: OK. So basically what we have going on here is Bill Press was for Bernie Sanders because they believed that Hillary Clinton was a pawn of corporate interest, that she said one thing - she said one thing -

PRESS: No, no, that's not true. No, no, no.

BALDWIN: Don't put words in his mouth.

SCHLAPP: Let me go - let me go - let me try to do my -

PRESS: Don't speak for me. I'll speak for myself.

SCHLAPP: I'll try to do - I'll do my best impersonation of Bernie Sanders because when she appeared before corporate audiences, like she did in her speeches, she said things like, we can't vet these refugees from Syria. She said things like, we should have open borders. She said things like, look, I have to have a private policy position and a public policy position. And then she'd collect her $225,000, $250,000 check.

What we're seeing from Hillary Clinton is that, no matter how much you throw at Donald Trump, and he has the kitchen sink resting on his head, he has had the best dump in October that we ever saw. And Hillary Clinton is sitting in the mid 40s.

PRESS: Let me just -

SCHLAPP: She is not liked. She is a miserable candidate.

PRESS: Oh, no, wait - wait -

SCHLAPP: And she is not going to have a landslide victory. That is absurd.

PRESS: No, no, no, you've got them confused.

BALDWIN: One of you says landslide, one of you says not so much.

Quickly. Quickly.

PRESS: You've got them confused. Donald Trump is the one who's sitting in the low 40s and he hasn't moved yet. And I just want to point out, for the record -

SCHLAPP: He had the worst month (ph) in presidential history.

PRESS: Bernie - if I may, if I may - you're talking about somebody who just had a bad month. I man your guy's been in the toilet for the last two weeks.

SCHLAPP: I'd agree.

BALDWIN: That's what he's saying. That's what he's saying.

PRESS: Let me - let me say something. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren were yesterday out in - I think it was Colorado, wherever, for Hillary Clinton. Bernie Sanders is in Arizona tomorrow for Hillary Clinton. There's no doubt where Bernie Sanders is. There's no doubt where Bernie Sanders supporters are. They're with Hillary Clinton because Donald Trump is uniquely unqualified and unhinged.

[14:15:09] BALDWIN: And on that, Bill Press, Matt Schlapp -

SCHLAPP: Bernie was right. Bernie was right.

BALDWIN: Thank you, guys.

PRESS: Bernie is right today.

BALDWIN: Matt and Bill, thank you so much.

Just ahead, a manhunt underway in the firebombing of a Republican office in a town in North Carolina. Donald Trump is blaming it on Clinton's quote/unquote "animals."

Plus, a major divide in the Clinton campaign about whether to focus on swing states, or the red states they would love to turn blue. Could taking a risk backfire?

And breaking news today, it is the last ISIS stronghold in Iraq, and right now a battle underway to take it back. Our CNN crew caught in the crossfire. We'll take you there live.

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NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A lot of coalition (INAUDIBLE).

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BALDWIN: And we're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. To some breaking developments in the investigation of Hillary

Clinton's use of her private e-mail server when she served as secretary of state. Today, the FBI released a batch of new documents and the bureau is now denying there was any sort of exchange of favors between its own people and the State Department.

[14:20:03] Senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns is here to explain.

Joe, what do the new documents from the FBI show?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, look, the importance of this story is that, once again, congressional Republicans are seizing on an issue that arose around the time Hillary Clinton was secretary of state and raising questions about whether the department was playing fast and loose with the rules of handling classified documents during the time she was there. They're also asking if there was talk of an inappropriate bargain surrounding all of this. The FBI, in a statement today, says, no, that didn't happen.

But here's what we know. Undersecretary of State Patrick Kennedy wanted of the FBI to declassify a document about possible arrests in the Benghazi case, which had been classified a secret by the FBI. He asked the bureau to downgrade that document. According to the FBI, an official at the bureau, who spoke with Kennedy, had been trying to reach him to talk about the need for addressing additional space for FBI personnel stationed in other countries and brought up the issue apparently around the same time.

The question that later arose was whether the State Department was considering addressing an offer for additional space in exchange for the class - the changing of the classification of the document, which could have been construed, of course, as an inappropriate quid pro quo. The FBI says it did look into the situation that arose here, concluded there was never a quit pro quo, but that the allegations were nonetheless referred to the appropriate officials for review.

Still, congressional Republicans, including House Speaker Paul Ryan, aren't satisfied. They say the situation demonstrates that Hillary Clinton had a complete disregard for properly handling classified information. That the State Department was just trying to hide the mishandling of information. And State Department, on its own, issued a statement today asserting that the allegation of the quid pro quo is inaccurate and does not align with the facts, Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, so that's one piece of it today. Joe, thank you.

There is another bit of information that is affecting Hillary Clinton today, 22 days out from Election day. Remember those six-figure speeches she gave to the big banks. Hillary Clinton's primary rival, Bernie Sanders, insisted she should reveal them, reveal the transcripts. Well, it appears excerpts of her speeches to Goldman Sachs are finally out. WikiLeaks published the hacked e-mails from Clinton's campaign chairman. The Clinton campaign won't confirm the authenticity, but so far there are no denials either coming out of the camp. The speeches appear to confirm that there is a difference between what

Hillary Clinton says on the podium versus what she says behind closed doors. Quoting an excerpt here from WikiLeaks, it's written, "it's unsavory, but it always has been that way. But if everybody's watching, you know, all of the backroom discussions and the deals, you know then people get nervous to say the least, so you need both the public and a private position."

So with that, David Chalian is next to me here, our CNN political director. And on that, the public versus private, to me your takeaway is less on what she thought, but how she clearly had a thought publicly versus privately, which is on her character?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. I mean, listen, Hillary Clinton's Achilles heel in this entire election, and maybe for her entire public career -

BALDWIN: Yes.

CHALIAN: Has been when people - people don't trust her. In this election, people have a more unfavorable than favorable view of her. And this is largely due to this notion of, is she playing by a different set of rules? Does she play by the same rules as us? Is she upfront with the American people? Is she doing things for political purposes? And that's really her calculation. And so when you see -

BALDWIN: And this reinforces -

CHALIAN: Exactly. This reinforces that question that hovers around her. So this is not a good thing that's out there for the - for the Clinton campaign to see this. And, you're right, these are hacked e- mails. We should note that. And that's a clear context. But what is inside of them is important to note.

Remember, Bernie Sanders kept wanting to pressure her, as you noted, to get these Goldman speeches out there. He said, if she wants to hide them so much, I mean, and she's getting paid that much money, it must be the stuff of Shakespeare. I'm not sure it's the stuff of Shakespeare. I don't think that's come to fruition. But I do think you hear her say, well, nobody knows better how to fix the financial industry than those that are in it. That's very different sounding than sort of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, right?

These things could have been a little more damaging, perhaps, in the Democratic nomination fight in terms of the stuff with the banks, the talk with the banks, than they are right now. But I do think it helps the Trump folks paint a picture of Hillary Clinton as somebody who presents something in private that she doesn't present in public and, therefore, double down on this notion of, can you really trust what she's telling you.

BALDWIN: To thine own self be true.

CHALIAN: There you go.

BALDWIN: David Chalian, debate within the Clinton world, do they keep their heads down, keep the focus on the states they know they could win, and those battleground states, or do they pivot, because some of these red states are looking like they could turn blue. Talk to me about that push and pull.

CHALIAN: Right. I mean Robby Mook, the campaign manager, says we're going to do a little bit of both, right? I mean that's sort of where they are. They are putting some money and some high-level surrogates into a state like Arizona, and that state hasn't gone Democratic since Bill Clinton won in his re-election in 1996.

[14:25:09] BALDWIN: Isn't Chelsea and -

CHALIAN: Chelsea's there.

BALDWIN: Bernie Sanders.

CHALIAN: Michelle Obama is now going in. Bernie Sanders is there.

BALDWIN: All headed that way.

CHALIAN: All headed to Arizona.

BALDWIN: Which indicates something, like you said.

CHALIAN: It definitely indicates - but it also is a bit of like, hey, Trump campaign, Republicans, spend more time and money here because now we're here. Come find us here.

BALDWIN: That's funny.

CHALIAN: Don't spend it in North Carolina or Ohio, right?

BALDWIN: Yes.

CHALIAN: So, they're not getting - look, you know what the core battlegrounds are. We've seen it. I mean Florida, Ohio, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, that - that's where this campaign is being fought. But they are dabbling in some of these other places, A, to distract the Republicans, try to get them to spend money, and, B, to see if there really is something there. I mean Arizona, I think, is probably of all of them the one that may be the most hopeful because of the demographics of the state, because John McCain is - has sort of walked away from the nominee, but there may be something to play with there.

BALDWIN: Yes.

CHALIAN: But I don't see the map being dramatically different on election night than you've seen it.

BALDWIN: OK. All right, David Chalian, a man who dreams in states 22 days away. Thank you so much.

CHALIAN: And in Shakespeare occasionally, yes.

BALDWIN: Yes, a little bit of Shakespeare. I was voted a Shakespeare nerd.

A big programming note, by the way. Tonight, Melania Trump is breaking her silence in an exclusive interview with Anderson Cooper. Her reaction to everything happening in this campaign, including the allegations of Trump's inappropriate behavior toward a number of women. Do not miss this, tonight, 8:00 Eastern. Melania Trump and Anderson Cooper here on CNN. Back in a moment.

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