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The Long Battle for Mosul; Obama to Trump: "Stop Whining"; Trump Intensifies Claims of Rigged Election; The Importance of Retaking Mosul; Why Third Party Candidates Run. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired October 19, 2016 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:00:12] MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: The coalition pushing ISIS from Iraq's second largest city is already in progress. But the effort to reach Mosul could take weeks, and the subsequent urban battle could last for months. We will bring you the very latest from Erbil in Iraq.

Also ahead this hour, Barack Obama tells Donald Trump to stop whining as Trump continues to insist the 2016 election is being rigged.

And do you recognize any of these faces? Millions of Americans don't. And that's a problem for them because they too are running for president.

HOLMES: Hello, everyone and welcome to our viewers all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes in Erbil, Iraq.

SIDNER: And I'm Sara Sidner at CNN Los Angeles. NEWSROOM L.A. starts right now.

Iraqi and Peshmerga forces are advancing on Mosul. They are reporting progress to east and south of Iraq's second largest city. But they're facing intense resistance from ISIS. One Iraqi soldier has been killed in a suicide car bomb attack.

The U.S. believes eventually the militants may try to use crude forms of chemical weapons in this pitched battle. The militants are said to be setting oil and tire fires so that the smoke will obscure their positions from the air. A Peshmerga commander said it could take two months to liberate that city.

Let's bring in Michael Holmes who is in Erbil -- that is east of Mosul. Thank you for being here -- Michael. Tell us a little bit more about what is happening. There has been talk, and we're hearing from officials that yes indeed there is more progress today.

HOLMES: Yes, it has been -- this is a very methodical campaign, both from the Iraqi security forces, the army, and from the Kurdish forces as well. They are taking their time. They're being very methodical. They are clearing villages as they go. They're still 30 to 40 kilometers from Mosul itself. A Peshmerga commander has been telling us that his forces are also ready to take in civilians who are fleeing the front line. Senior international correspondent Arwa Damon spoke to some villagers recently freed by the Iraqi army and who are still very afraid of ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): We just came across this group of people. They're from one of the villages nearby. We were actually on our way towards one of the Iraqi army Ninth Division position.

According to what these gentlemen were saying, and we can go now and talk to some of the women as well, their village was liberated by the forces about two days ago. All these people were actually living under ISIS.

And then today they heard a rumor that ISIS was returning. So they all actually fled their village and have now ended up here and are waiting for permission to go back home.

And so what these women are saying is that ISIS actually reemerged from some of the orchards, some fighters did.

And so they ran out. She doesn't even have her shoes on as you see this. They lived under ISIS. They now have to flee. I mean this is one of the ongoing catastrophes of this war.

They're talking about the fact that the children are hungry. And she's saying every day they would say come to us. They would say do you have guns? Do you have mobile phones? Give them over. Whoever they found a mobile phone they would kill. They starved us. They killed people that would smoke.

And they were so happy then when the army came in. And then ISIS reemerged.

They're saying come on, let's go, let's go. And they're going back to their village. Most of the families are returning. And the Iraqi and Kurdish commanders who we spoke to say that there was no ISIS counterattack.

But you heard what they were saying to us. You saw how scared they were. And this just shows you the psychological and other trauma that they have been through where just the rumor that ISIS has returned sends them running for their lives.

[00:05:09] Arwa Damon, CNN -- Kenesh (ph), Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Ranj Alaaldin is a visiting fellow at the Brookings Doha Center and specializes in Middle East modern history. He joins me now via Skype from Doha. And thanks for doing so.

Victory in Mosul is one thing. But it's how that victory is managed after the battle. Things like basic services, governance, and who does the governing. Would you agree?

RANJ ALAALDIN, BROOKINGS DOHA CENTER: Absolutely. And that's why this campaign itself will be far more complicated, more complex than it seems at the moment. At the moment there is some element of deception (ph) to the whole operation. The villages, for example and the towns that are being recaptured from ISIS have been largely without any significant populations.

There is a very significant political dimension to this. Because in order to prevent ISIS from resurrecting itself, from reorganizing, you have to address the kind of conditions you've alluded to. That includes things like rehabilitating Mosul, rehabilitating places like Fallujah and Anbar that have been destroyed.

You have to integrate the people that have left back into their local communities, back into their homes, back into their local economy. You've got give them jobs, basic services because these are the conditions that gave rise to ISIS in the first place, of course.

HOLMES: And there are so many interested parties in this battle literally on the battlefield. And many of them do have differing agendas. I'm curious what your take is on the fragility or otherwise of the Iraqi state at the moment.

ALAALDIN: Well, the humanitarian and the political interact significantly. There is a massive problem when it comes to administration in Iraq. You've got a fragmented security environment. And this operation itself, you've got forces that are loyal to and answer to the Baghdad federal government. You've got an array of Shia militia groups. You've got the Kurdish Peshmerga forces in the north.

So what is missing is the political structures and the political agreements and frameworks that could enable any military gains to count in the short-term and medium term. What Iraq really needs is a serious effort to mend and reconcile some of the divisions and the problems because you've got a host of actors involved in this operation that have had conflicting agendas. They've had disputes over the past ten years.

These are the problems that have enabled groups like ISIS to thrive over the past ten years, of course, because the organization has come in different forms in the past. And even after the initial operation, they could splinter into different groups and still make use or exploit those kinds of political disputes and disagreements.

HOLMES: That has been a big fear. I mean you have even among the Sunni tribes, you have disagreement. The Kurds aren't even on one page completely when it comes to what they want, what their agendas are. You have the Turks on the outside looking in and wanting to be involved. It is such a complex geopolitical as well as a sectarian makeup.

You alluded to this a moment ago. But, you know, you can't defeat an ideology militarily. And that's a sort of adage that has been proven true over and over again. I'm curious what you think will become of ISIS once they in a geographical sense no longer exist inside of Iraq. They're not just going to go away if that ideology still exists. And the circumstances remain for that ideology to be appealing -- correct?

ALAALDIN: You're absolutely right. So we've seen that ISIS over the past six months, for example, has committed atrocities throughout Iraq in its usual form. And that is by way of its sleeper cells in Baghdad and other parts of Iraq. It's committing the kind of bombings, suicide bombings, the IED attacks that it's done with deadly impact over the past ten years.

And as you say that's because the conditions are still there for it to do all that.

It's important to be wary of any absence of resistance in the coming period. ISIS could very well blend into the local population in Mosul, just because it doesn't put up much of a fight this time around that doesn't mean it isn't investing its resources into the kind of terrorist attacks that I just referred to. It doesn't mean it isn't saving itself for another day to put up the kind of violence, the kind of resistance that it's been putting up over the past decade more generally.

HOLMES: Yes. Many feel that once it goes as the geographical entity, the caliphate per se it will just morph into an insurgency if those conditions do remain.

[00:10:02] I'm wondering what you think in terms of Iraq's future as, I don't know, a contiguous state under central government, given those competing narratives from Kurds who want some measure of independence, Sunnis who want some measure of autonomy. Do you think that there will be some form of federalism? What do you think?

ALAALDIN: Well, this comes back to the point about the lack of a serious centralized unified Iraqi security force. One of the reasons why ISIS was able to take places like Mosul in the first place was because the national army, the Iraqi army, the military wasn't respected by the local population. To provide security and therefore to provide basic services, you need to have a serious, credible and respected local security force.

Now there is talk of potentially having an Arab-Sunni contingency that provides security in places like Mosul. There is even talk of potentially decentralizing Iraq even more to the extent that the Arab- Sunnis have their own region, to the extent that Mosul itself becomes divided into different little autonomous areas.

But all that comes with its own complications, simply because you need much more than just power-sharing to remedy the kind of problems that Iraq has. That's things like the continued perception that you have a sectarian government in Baghdad. That includes problems like corruption, dysfunctional governance.

So not only do you need the resources, but you also need the capacity (inaudible) and Iraq just lacks that. There is also no guarantee the international community will fill the gap, especially if ISIS falls off the radar. There is no guarantee the international community in places like the United States will have the political will to continue its investment in Iraq as it is right now.

HOLMES: Yes, and certainly there are those in the Kurdish and Sunni communities who do fear that the U.S. will pack up after this and the problems will remain.

Great analysis. Great to talk to you -- Ranj Alaaldin. Thanks so much for that.

ALAALDIN: Pleasure.

HOLMES: All right. That will do it from us here in Erbil for the moment. We'll be back a little bit later in the program.

For now, though, back to Sara Sidner in Los Angeles -- Sara.

SIDNER: Thank you so much, Michael.

Now to Syria, where people in rebel-held parts of Aleppo say they haven't heard any air strikes after Moscow announced there would be a pause in the bombing by Russian and Syrian forces.

Despite the ongoing civil war, the wife of Syrian president Bashar al Assad tells Russian media that she is staying put. She says she has even turned down lucrative offers to safely leave the country with her children.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASAMA AL-ASSAD, WIFE OF BASHAR AL ASSAD: First of all, I've been here since the beginning. And I never thought of being anywhere else at all.

And secondly, yes, I was offered the opportunity to leave Syria or rather to run from Syria. These offers included guarantees of safety and protection for my children and even financial security. It doesn't take a genius to know what these people were really after.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: And that was Asama al Assad speaking there.

Coming up, Donald Trump says the U.S. presidential election is rigged. Why he now says polls that he once touted, are too.

And just ahead on CNN NEWSROOM L.A., U.S. President Barack Obama to Trump, "stop whining". What more President Obama has to say about that subject coming up.

[00:13:33(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEDRAM JAVAHERI, AMS METEOROLOGIST: The record heat still continuing around portions of the United States. I'm meteorologist Pedram Javaheri.

And this one's (ph) high pressure here across the southeastern portion of the United States, temperatures for some have soared well above seasonal values. In fact, in places like Dodge City in the U.S. state of Kansas, they broke a record that has been standing for over 140 years. -- incredible setup there with temps approaching 40 degrees Celsius for this time of year.

But you notice still from New York City, a mild setup at 28 degrees. Chicago still an enjoyable afternoon with partly cloudy skies and 22; and portions of Texas there, warming up into the lower 30s. But you'll notice the trend is a cooler one and that's a pretty significantly cooler one for the U.S. capital there, going from 28 down to 13 degrees.

This is more in line with what you would expect in the month of August. Down here more in line with what you would expect in the month of November. So literally within four days, the temperatures will take a two to three-month shift in the climatological norm in store across parts of the United States.

There is the mild air on Thursday. You'll notice the cool air pushes in. And it's a short-lived trend here. As we approach later next week, more warmth looks to build here as we approach Halloween across the United States. So, an impressive trend still looking to develop across that region.

We're on the Caribbean watching a storm system north of San Juan, and also parts of the Turks and Caicos Islands, about an 80 percent probability this will form. But it looks to track more to the north and east.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: In case you missed it, the last U.S. presidential debate is less than 24 hours away. Republican candidate Donald Trump now says he does not believe the polls anymore. Trump has cited poll numbers a lot during his campaign, especially when they are in his favor.

But the latest polls show him trailing Democrat Hillary Clinton in nearly every battleground state. And Trump says he just isn't buying it, even though the head of Trump's super PAC says it will take a miracle for the Republican to win the election.

Now after days of Trump complaining about a rigged election, President Barack Obama slammed him, noting that the election hasn't happened yet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is no serious person out there who would suggest somehow that you could even rig America's elections, in part because they're so decentralized and the numbers of votes involved, there is no evidence that that has happened in the past or that there are instances in which that will happen this time.

And so I would advise Mr. Trump to stop whining and go try to make his case to get votes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Trump is not backing down, as you might imagine. At a campaign rally in Colorado Tuesday, the Republican nominee ramped up his charges of voter fraud across the entire country. Jason Carroll reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump is escalating his talk that the election is being rigged against him.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: This is an election about truth. And you're not going get it from the dishonest media.

CARROLL: The GOP nominee is blaming the media for playing a role in the rigging process by reporting on sexual misconduct allegations against the GOP nominee, which he continues to assert are all false.

TRUMP: They have rigged it from the beginning, by telling totally false stories, most recently about phony allegations where I have been under constant attack.

CARROLL: All as Trump digs in his heels, charging without evidence that there is a conspiracy to undermine the electoral process by allowing dead people and undocumented immigrants to cast ballots.

TRUMP: People that have died ten years ago are still voting. Illegal immigrants are voting. I mean, where are the street smarts of some of these politicians?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't have any.

TRUMP: They don't have any is right. So many cities are corrupt and voter fraud is very, very common.

[00:20:07] CARROLL: Some of Trump's fellow Republicans are strongly his unfounded claims, including former primary opponent Marco Rubio.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: There is no evidence behind any of this. So this should not continue to be said.

CARROLL: As the campaign enters its final weeks, Trump looking to go back on the offense against Hillary Clinton by seizing on her latest e-mail controversy after newly-released documents by the FBI raise questions as to whether a State Department official sought to have the bureau declassify the contents of an e-mail from Clinton's private server.

TRUMP: This is worse than Watergate.

CARROLL: While he takes aim at Clinton, Trump is still feuding with House Speaker Paul Ryan, suggesting the top Republican in Congress is not defending Trump because he has his eyes on the White House in 2020.

TRUMP: Maybe he wants to run in four years. Or maybe he doesn't know how to win.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: And Trump took his attack on the media one step further saying that at this point the media is worse than his opponent, Hillary Clinton.

Jason Carroll, CNN -- Grand Junction, Colorado.

SIDNER: All right. Let's talk this through.

Joining us now Mo Kelly, he's the host of "The Mo Kelly Show" and "The Mo Kelly Experience", radio programs that are in Los Angeles and San Francisco.

All right. We see that Trump is doubling down.

MO KELLY, RADIO HOST: Or quadrupling down.

SIDNER: And not just when it comes to the entire election process being rigged, but also the polls. Is this a good strategy in the end?

KELLY: I don't know if he has a strategy to win, but it's a strategy to increase his profile. If you're trying to say that the election is rigged, you're telling your own voters that your vote does not matter.

And if you were to tell me that my vote doesn't matter and my candidate can't win because it's already been predetermined, then why in the heck would I actually go out of my way to spend time in line to cast a vote? So if anything he is suppressing his own vote, not the vote of Hillary Clinton.

SIDNER: It gets people really riled up, though. And it could potentially have the opposite effect -- right. I mean it gets people so angry that you think that it might push them towards going -- all right, I'm going get my friends and my family and everybody I can that can vote, and I'm going to get them out to the polls. We've got to top this thing.

KELLY: I don't know if they'll go out to the polls to vote, but they'll get their friends who go out to the polls to police. And what scares me is, what is the likely end result of telling people that our democracy is a fraud potentially?

You heard him in the clip where he was saying that dead people are voting. Illegal immigrants are voting, but not providing any evidence. And so if you're going to cast aspersion of the whole over democracy, that's a very dangerous proposition when so much is riding on any election, much less a presidential one.

SIDNER: And to be fair, there have been some cases that have been brought up that show that there have been people in the rolls that were deceased, that there has been some voter fraud, but it hasn't been widespread. There is no study out there that says this is happening on a large enough scale to actually impact a presidential -- especially a presidential election. KELLY: Right. But I've sent in my ballot already, what happens if I

die tomorrow? I'm still going to show up on the roll. And the function of voter rolls is to say who has been registered, not who has illegally voted. I don't think people understand the fullness of our process.

SIDNER: All right. Let's move on the Hillary Clinton. She is facing some embarrassing revelations that came out in a video that was done by a conservative operative who has been debunked before. But there are some comments said on this video from a Democratic operative who basically says they've been telling people, activists to go into these Trump rallies and incite either violence or at least unrest inside these rallies.

And, you know, Trump for a very long time has been saying this is the Democrats doing this. You're seeing this and they're doing it on purpose and they're trying to make us look bad. And now there is some evidence that he may be telling the truth. How much does this hurt Hillary Clinton?

KELLY: I don't know how much it hurts Hillary Clinton if only because I believe most people have actually made up their minds at this point. And if you feel that Hillary Clinton is corrupt or is engaging in illegal behavior, this is only going to add to that. It's not going to take away from it. It's not going to change someone's vote or not sway this election.

But for me personally, it is disturbing and concerning that quite possibly, you have people who are trying to provoke people at Trump rallies. But the question is, was this a top-down directive or was it a bottom up directive? And that is the key point which needs to be determined.

SIDNER: Right -- there is a question as to who ordered this or if it was ordered or was this one or two people kind of doing their own thing trying to --

KELLY: Absolutely.

SIDNER: -- trying to incite people.

Let me ask you about some of the things that we have heard from Donald Trump about women. Clearly, some women are disturbed by this, even if they were going to vote for him they may have changed their minds.

But I want to let you hear from several women who have been watching this campaign since the beginning, which feels like about two years ago. And have been following Trump and following the campaign. And here is what they say, even after all the revelations about why they are voting for Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[00:25:09] UNIOR, TRUMP SUPPORTER: For me, it's a battle between good and evil. I think Hillary is evil. I think Trump is good. Is he perfect? No. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You literally do pray for him?

JUNIOR: I literally get on my knees and I pray that Trump will become the President of this United States. Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Now the reasoning behind this -- it isn't just the good and evil scenario. The reasoning behind this they said was that they think that his policies will be in line with their beliefs. And that he is a person that they don't like what they heard from him, but they like the idea that he sort of policy-wise thinks the way they do.

Is that argument going to sway someone who might be on the fence? A woman in particular?

KELLY: At this point it's clear that that argument is not going to sway the multitude of women. More women than not are going to be adversely impacted at the prospect of sexual assault or boasting about it or saying it's locker room talk. We already know that.

But there are still those women who are not going to be affected by that. Ultimately Donald Trump -- depending on the poll you read if you don't believe that they're rigged is some seven to nine points behind. So ultimately he is going to need more than just a handful of women. He is going to need the majority, or at least a plurality of women to believe that he is actually not guilty of this and it's not an issue which is disqualifying in nature.

SIDNER: It speaks to character. And obviously every time there is especially for presidential candidates, but for generally politicians, character is a big deal.

KELLY: Absolutely. Absolutely.

SIDNER: All right. Mo Kelly, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate you.

KELLY: Thanks for having me.

SIDNER: Great to have you on.

All right. A reminder that the final presidential debate is less than 24 hours away. CNN is live in Las Vegas with full coverage from 11:00 p.m. Wednesday in London and that is 6:00 a.m. Thursday in Hong Kong.

They aren't in the debate, but Gary Johnson and Jill Stein can still change the course of this election. A little bit later, why third party candidates run for the White House even though they've never actually won.

Plus the U.S. President says he is confident ISIS will be driven out of Mosul but it will not be easy. Why reclaiming the city is vital for Iraqi forces.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [00:30:45] SIDNER: Thanks for being with us. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles, I'm Sara Sidner. The headlines for you this hour.

U.S. President Barack Obama is slamming Donald Trump's claims of a rigged election. Mr. Obama says Trump is whining and his claims aren't based on facts. Trump's poll numbers have been dropping. Critics say his debate performances have been mediocre.

President Barack Obama's half-brother will be Donald Trump's guest at Wednesday's presidential debate. In July, Malik Obama says he would vote for the Republican candidate. Obama's half-brother has criticized Obama for not doing enough for the American people or his extended family.

Despite the ongoing violence, the wife of Syrian President Bashar Al- Assad is staying in Syria. Asma Al-Assad told Russian media she has turned down lucrative offers to leave the country with her children. She said the offers were just an attempt to shatter people's confidence in her husband.

Two days into the Mosul offensive, Iraqi and Kurdish forces say they have made progress to the east and south of the Iraqi city. But the resistance is extremely strong. One Iraqi soldier has been killed in a car bomb attack. A Peshmerga commander says it could take two months to retake Mosul from ISIS.

Let us bring in Michael Holmes. He is in Erbil, Iraq, which is east of Mosul.

Thank you so much for being with us again. There have been some developments. But this new information that this could take months just to get into the city, we're talking about an incredibly difficult fight, aren't we?

HOLMES: Yes, you are, especially once you get in. The sort of conventional wisdom at the moment is this is a very methodical process now with Iraqi security forces, the army, and the Kurdish fighters working their way through towns and villages, edging closer. They're not in a rush to do this. They need to -- a lot of the towns and villages that they're going through don't have residents in them. But they have some ISIS fighters. They do have IEDs and booby-traps. And each of them has to be cleared one by one.

They're about 30 to 40 kilometers, I supposed, from Mosul itself or the outskirts of the city. And the thing is you're looking at weeks, maybe two weeks, maybe three to actually get to Mosul. Once inside, that urban warfare could be difficult. It's estimated it could be anywhere from 3,000 to 5,000 ISIS fighters inside the city. And they're going to be congregating around the western side of the city, which is where the old city is. It's a very dense, built-up narrow roads. A very hard place to fight an enemy that is already well dug in.

Although there, Sara, warnings about how long this fight could last, U.S. President Barack Obama convinced like many others that the militants will eventually be driven out of Mosul.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mosul will be a difficult fight. And there will be advances and there will be setbacks. But I am confident that just as ISIS has been defeated in communities across Iraq, ISIL will be defeated in Mosul as well. And that will be another step towards their ultimate destruction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Well, an estimated one million people are still living in Mosul. Civilians and retaking this city would be a major defeat, obviously, for the terror group.

Senior international correspondent Clarissa Ward has more on that aspect.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): The battle for Mosul is a really big deal. And here is why.

(voice-over): Mosul is the second biggest city in Iraq, and it's the last remaining ISIS stronghold in the country. It's also the place where ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi first declared that he had established an Islamic caliphate or state.

Now the last time the Iraqi army was in Mosul was back in 2014, once were fleeing from ISIS fighters. This time it's hoping to reverse those losses.

Iraqi Army Forces won't be the only ones on the battlefield, though. Kurdish Peshmerga forces will be involved and the U.S. military will also be playing a supportive role.

[00:35:10] (on-camera): But the battle won't be easy. Officials estimate there are between 3,000 and 5,000 ISIS fighters still inside the city. And they have created an elaborate network of defenses.

They fill moats with oil and then set it alight, creating these thick black plumes of choking smoke. Houses are booby-trapped. The streets are littered with IEDs. And then there is the human toll. An estimated one million civilians are still living in the City of Mosul. And the U.N. says that the exodus that could follow a battle might be one of the biggest man made displacements in recent times.

Some commanders estimate it could take as much as three months to take the city. And then there is the aftermath to deal with. But if the operation is successful, it will deal a major blow to ISIS.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Clarissa Ward reporting there.

That will do it from Erbil for the moment. We will be back later. Meanwhile, back to you, Sara Sidner, in Los Angeles.

SIDNER: Thank you, Michael Holmes.

It costs millions of dollars and months, if not years of your life to run for the U.S. presidency. So why would third party candidates do it when historically they don't win? An expert weighs in, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: It's easier to forget that the race for the White House this go-round has four people in it, not just Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Gary Johnson is the libertarian candidate for president and Jill Stein is the Green Party's choice.

They aren't taking part in any of the televised presidential debates. But they're still getting numbers in the polls.

In the latest CNN Poll of Polls, Johnson has seven percent support of likely voters and Stein has two percent. Now no third party candidate has ever won a U.S. presidential election. But that has not stopped people from trying and sometimes having a serious impact.

Joining me now is Craig Thomasoff. He is the author of "The Can'tidates: Running for President When Nobody Knows Your Name."

CRAIG THOMASOFF, AUTHOR, THE CAN'TIDATES: RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT WHEN NOBODY KNOWS YOUR NAME: Thank you for getting that whole title out.

SIDNER: I love the title. It tells you a lot about what your book is about.

THOMASOFF: Oh, yes.

SIDNER: So, first of all, just the simplest question ever. Why, why put yourself through this? It is grueling. It's expensive. And it could take a toll on not only, you know, you personally, but your family as well.

THOMASOFF: It's -- I mean, that was actually the motivating theory to do the book because I was just fascinated by this notion of people who wake up in the morning and go, I'm going to do this thing. My family will hate me. I'll lose my friends. I'll lose my money. And there is zero shot at me succeeding. Sign me up.

Nobody does that. And the psychology of doing that is fascinating.

[00:40:00] SIDNER: When it comes to the candidates now and the candidates that you have written about, is there a difference between those candidates? Is there something that you see, the candidates that are in place now that differs from those from the past like Ralph Nader for example?

THOMASOFF: Yes. I lived through John Anderson, I live through Ralph Nader, I live through Ross Perot. And those, I don't know, movements is the right way to say it, but there was a genuine feeling I like this guy. I'm not just making a protest vote. I really want this guy to win.

I don't get that with Gary Johnson or Jill Stein. And I think they're just there for the -- instead of none of the above, it's just Gary Johnson and Jill Stein.

SIDNER: They can still have an impact, though. What is it about this election that has numbers with Gary Johnson who has said some pretty damning things, I guess you could say, where he just didn't know information that any candidate should know. But he is still getting six percent if you look at the poll of polls.

THOMASOFF: Yes. I don't think it's people going, God, I love what Gary Johnson stands for. It's just, God, I hate Trump and Clinton. And I think as you get closer to the election, you'll see their numbers go down, the Johnson, Stein numbers go down because people realize oh, crap, I guess I really do have to decide this election.

SIDNER: Let me ask you about those that are in your book, the examples that you use. You just mention three of them. Did they go on to do something significant? Did they run for office and win in say a local election or do they do something that really had an impact on the American electorate?

THOMASOFF: I mean, nothing that would ever impact anybody nationally. Everything that they're doing, all the people in my book is for a very personal reason. Each of these people had some hole in their lives. Something bad happened, some problem. Running for president gave them a new focus. And something to kind of devote their lives to whether it's proving to your son you're not a failure, or you know, standing up for the Vietnam vets who died right alongside you. It's people who will never win, but it just makes them feel better to run. And I don't necessarily see the problem in that.

SIDNER: When it comes to these two candidates, who do you think they will hurt most? Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump?

THOMASOFF: I mean, my feeling is I don't think they'll hurt anybody. I think the numbers will dwindle. We haven't seen any real change in quite some time already with Hillary and Trump's numbers. I can't imagine these people have that much of an impact. Again, because there is no feeling like I want to vote for them.

SIDNER: The movement candidates we heard from were Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. And both of them were in a party, although either of them could have gone as independents.

Does the Democratic and Republican Party, do they do things to try and dissuade those in these other two parties who clearly have never been able to win an election?

THOMASOFF: Yes. These stories that I heard in the course of doing the book I heard from a lot of people who told me Democrat and Republican local committees really put pressure on to not have you run. If you're not the one they already know. And these people in the book have never run for anything in their entire live, most of them. So no local party, Republican or Democrat is going to take you on.

That's why most of the people I talked to were not liberal, we're not conservative, we're not Democratic, we're not Republican. They're just people who are having a hard time and want to make things better.

SIDNER: Well, a lot of people in America like that. So it is unfortunate, though, because a lot of there -- there are a lot of potential candidates out there if the parties would kind of let them go for it.

THOMASOFF: Actually, the thing that stood out the most, I think, in almost everybody I talked to at the end of the interviews, because I talked to them all for like five or six hours. And they would all end up saying, you know what, you guys are crazy for not doing it.

This is our right. We think of them as nuts. But it's the right to do that. And they don't understand why we all don't take advantage of it.

SIDNER: Thank you so much for being here. We appreciate your time.

THOMASOFF: I appreciate it.

SIDNER: And thank you for joining us here on CNN. From Los Angeles, I'm Sara Sidner. "World Sport" is next.

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