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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Manhunt for Oklahoma Murder Suspect Continues; Father Rapes 12-Year- Old Daughter And Gets 60 Days in Jail; Vets Ordered to Pay Back Reenlistment Bonuses. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 25, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST: Day two on the loose, a double murderer who butchered his victims, shot at the police and civilians before
stealing their cars, and he`s out there somewhere tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police dragnet widens for an armed and extremely dangerous alleged double murderer. Michael Vance shared his terrifying
crime spree live on Facebook while on the run.
MICHAEL VANCE, SUSPECT: See? (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
BANFIELD: There is fear tonight he is not finished yet.
Just 60 days behind bars for a father who raped his own 12-year-old daughter repeatedly, and now the judge says he can serve time on weekends,
tens of thousands of people now crying, Impeach the judge.
And they are true heroes, many of them injured and awarded Purple Hearts. But now thousands of American soldiers are being ordered to return millions
in mistaken bonuses, bonuses they earned in exchange for risking their lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our trust was totally betrayed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Hello, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to PRIMETIME JUSTICE.
We`ve got breaking news that we`re following in Oklahoma tonight. Where is Michael D. Vance? Because tonight, a terrified community is praying for
some relief, and it is highly unlikely that they`re going to get any of it until police find out where Vance is hiding.
He is that alleged rampaging killer who left a trail of human destruction and pain and grief. He is armed with an AK-47. He is suspected of
brutally killing his aunt and uncle, shooting two police officers and several other people, as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He doesn`t have a regard for the people. Nothing`s stopping him. He has that mentality that he`s going to go on his path and
nothing`s going to be able to stop him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Vance went broadcasting live on Facebook while on his twisted, violent bender, sharing key details, possible motives and what police hope
end up as clues that will lead to his capture.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL VANCE, SUSPECT: Stay tuned to your local news. Wow! That really hurt. (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Joining me now, CNN national correspondent Ed Lavandera, who`s on this story. Sheriff John Whetsel with the Oklahoma County sheriff`s
department is with us live, as well. And Dawn Shelton is the publisher of "The Luther Register." She is in that community and she knows what they`re
going through.
Ed, I`m going to start with you and the reporting, the very latest on this manhunt. I understand they have tracked his cell phone. But have they
tracked him?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No word on just how close they might be to Michael Vance at this point. We do know that FBI agents, the U.S.
Marshals Service, as well as state authorities and every local authority there in the state of Oklahoma well aware of the situation and on the
lookout.
But we spoke to an FBI official, who remained very tight-lipped about what exactly was going on behind the scenes, saying that, you know, in a search
of this magnitude, in a search of this kind of situation, revealing too much would jeopardize the work that`s being done. But clearly, from
federal agencies all the way down to local agencies, a great deal of manpower being used to track down this individual tonight.
BANFIELD: And Ed, manpower or not, they`re absolutely terrified of what might come next because this man is desperate, angry and extraordinarily
dangerous.
I want to you listen to Sergeant Michael Oliver with the Luther PD, the police department, effectively saying people better lock their doors. Have
a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should people be concerned living in Luther here?
SGT. MICHAEL OLIVER, LUTHER POLICE DEPARTMENT: They should be. They should definitely make sure their doors are locked and everything just on
the off chance he does come back this way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So Ed, just on the off chance he comes back this way -- even today, there was a sighting, what was thought to be a sighting. And it was
a glimmer of hope, but it was doused. It turned out to be not true.
So are they any closer to finding this man who`s on the run tonight?
LAVANDERA: If they are, they`re not giving us any indication. But I think what is -- what is interesting in all of this is you remember, if you look
back at those Facebook videos in that pink shirt that authorities say was discovered at the murder scene of his aunt and uncle just a few hours after
the shooting of the police officers, that that shirt was found to have blood on it.
So we do know that Vance had to have been wounded in that shoot-out with the police officers Sunday night. And you have to imagine that if he had
gone to some emergency room or a hospital anywhere in the area, even in the states surrounding Oklahoma at this point, that authorities would have been
alerted by now.
[20:05:00]So exactly how severe are these wounds? How is he treating them? Is it something he`s doing on his own? Is it something that maybe he`s,
you know, passed out from at this point? We don`t have answers to these questions. But obviously, you know, the blood trail is significant, and
just exactly what he`s doing to take care of himself at this point, assuming that these wounds are significant, is something that I think
authorities are probably trying to figure out, as well.
BANFIELD: Yes, watch -- you know, if you`re in that area, the Wellston, Oklahoma, area, Luther, Oklahoma, all the way to the Texas border, that
entire county, that entire area, watch your local drug stores. If someone`s coming in and buying medical supplies, if someone doesn`t look
right -- we`ve been putting up the tip line, but look at this enter trail of danger and death and destruction that he has wrought.
He may or may not be near that Texas border, folks. Those arrows point to the left, but there is some thought that he may have returned with some
kind of family vendetta back to the right, back to where the original murders of his aunt and uncle took place, where some of those people were
shot.
There is your tip line. Call. Do not approach this man. I said it before. I`m going to say it again about this guy. The authorities say he
is extraordinarily desperate and dangerous. And effectively, if you look at him on Facebook, he is out of his mind. So do not approach him. Stay
very far away and only call that tip line.
Real quickly, Ed Lavandera, there is a Facebook photo because, obviously, the authorities have not only been combing the road and coming for food
(ph), but they`re looking through all of the computer forensics, as well. This Facebook photo that they have been able to find with him and a small
child -- take note of that image. He`s teaching the child to shoot on what appears to the same AK that was visible in one of those live Facebook
posts.
Again, this guy posted live as he was on this spree. Take a look at this latest -- I`m going to draw your attention, though, as you look at the
Facebook post. I`m going to draw your attention. There is a fleeting glimpse of the gun that you`re seeing on your screen. But here it is as we
saw it live.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: Letting you all know. Look. This is real. See? That`s a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gun. That`s the real deal. This (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
ain`t a joke. This ain`t a prank. I`m going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) live. If you want to know what`s up next, stay tuned to your local news. Sister,
I love, and thank you for believing me. Everything that was said, it was all a set-up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Dawn Shelton, looking at that, it looks like his eyes are wild. His words are wild. And now there are residents who are, many of them,
left to fend for themselves with locked doors. I can`t imagine how you all feel in that area.
DAWN SHELTON, "LUTHER REGISTER" (via telephone): Well, after he had those wild eyes, he kept going westbound and then to his family members` house.
And just, you know, an hour or two after that is when Ron and Kay Wilkerson (ph) were murdered in their home. And so that -- but prior, we saw that
video prior to that happening.
BANFIELD: Sheriff John Whetsel, I have heard you refer to this guy as someone who, quote, "has nothing to lose." "Nothing to lose" sounds
extraordinarily dangerous to me. So how does law enforcement track a guy like that and effectively deal with him if you find him?
SHERIFF JOHN WHETSEL, OKLAHOMA COUNTY: Well, obviously, you know, one of the things that`s happened today, the FBI has become involved. We asked
them to come in, along with U.S. Marshals Service. There`s now been a command center set up at the FBI headquarters here in Oklahoma City. All
of the information that`s coming in from agencies all over the state, whether they be state, local, county, federal, are going through the
command center. That helps us coordinate nationwide the information as we try to track this individual.
BANFIELD: Michael D. Vance is the man that people are looking for at this time. Not just law enforcement but anybody in that community is well aware
of the face on your screen. The tip line is on your screen, as well, 405- 258-1191 -- 405-258-1191. This is an active manhunt, and the danger is real, folks.
Not only that, Sheriff Whetsel, but there is some concern that he actually may be beyond the borders of your state, that he may be anywhere at this
point in the United States. Can you speak to that?
WHETSEL: Well, he`s been off grid now about 48 hours. So in that span of time, he could have traveled anywhere. So we`re not assuming he`s here.
We`re not assuming he`s left.
We have law enforcement scouring the back roads. We have increased our patrols here on Oklahoma County, especially in the northeastern part of the
county, to provide protection to our citizens.
We have no idea. He may be dead at this point in time. We just don`t know. It`s pure speculation. But he is a wounded individual. He has
shown no respect for life, and he has nothing to lose.
[20:10:04]We would encourage our citizens, Do not approach. Make law enforcement aware. He is just as apt to kill you as not.
BANFIELD: And he (INAUDIBLE) I mean, he shot at two police officers. He shot at two civilians to steal their cars. He hit one of the civilians
with a bullet.
There is a little more insight into the mind of this madman, and that again from the computer forensics that investigators have been coming through.
Some of his Facebook postings -- and by the way, on your screen, you`re seeing two of the brave officers who were in the direct line of fire of
this man. These two officers were shot. They make up two thirds of the entire police department. Let me repeat. These two officers make up two
thirds of the entire police department of three. Two of them were shot and injured by this person.
These are the victims who -- I mean, this is such an incredibly terrifying story. They were not only shot. They were butchered. This madman tried
to sever their heads, tried to sever the arm of his aunt -- allegations so far, but from what he`s been saying on his live Facebook posts, it is
pretty frightening what he`s admitting to, and what he says is getting really intense. Those are his words.
In his Facebook postings, there are several memes that he has released, as well. And I don`t know, Sheriff, if we any insight as to this person`s
mindset, but one of them says, "My family is my life, and I`ll always protect them. So don`t lose your life for f`ing with them." And you can
see a gun in the hands of someone who is tattooed.
There`s also another Facebook posting saying, "Dear haters, I have so much more for you to be mad at. Just be patient."
There`s another Facebook posting showing a clown target riddled with bullet holes in it. And then another one that they`ve been able to glean, as
well, another Facebook posting saying, "You don`t always need a plan. Just go."
And that seems to be what`s happened in this respect. He`s been stealing cars, shooting at people and trying to make the getaway at this point.
Real quickly, Sheriff Whetsel, the issue now is that there is this minor child with whom he is accused of raping. He`s accused of raping this minor
child, a close family member. Much of what he says in the Facebook Live videos refer to coming back for someone, specifically targeting someone.
Do you know at this time the whereabouts of this minor child, the security situation of this minor child, who is looking after this minor child?
WHETSEL: I`ll be very honest with you when I tell you I cannot make a comment about that. You know, the security and the life of this minor
child obviously is at stake, and I really can`t comment.
BANFIELD: Ed Lavandera, just to the computer forensics and the investigators -- I don`t know what anybody can glean from those memes.
They are obviously aggressive. They certainly fit with the personality of the person on the video, who was tracking (ph) himself live on Facebook as
he was going from crime scene to crime scene.
But are the police suggesting anything more? Are they giving us any more insight, or do we even need any more than we`ve already seen?
LAVANDERA: Well, I think -- I think there`s probably two different things going on here, right? There is this sexual abuse of a child case, and
obviously, investigator work and prosecutorial work that`s being done on that is one front.
I think that`s very separate from what is of the most paramount concern for the sheriff that we`re listening to, and obviously, for other authorities
there in the state of Oklahoma.
I would be willing to bet they don`t really care too much at this point about these memes unless it gives them some sort of clue as to who might be
helping him, if he is getting help, or where -- where -- you know, it might help them point them in direction as to where he might be hiding, if he is
still alive.
So I think of paramount concern right now is just finding Michael Vance at this point and that`s really what they`re the most concerned about at that
point. And everything else after that, they`ll -- I imagine they`ll tell you that they`ll work all that out as soon as they can. But right now,
finding him is the most important factor in all of this.
BANFIELD: Take a good long look at your screen, Michael D. Vance, 38 years old, accused of two vicious and violent murders and mutilations -- those
are family members that were murdered -- accused of shooting two police officers and wounding them, accused of stealing their patrol car. But he
wasn`t finished then, accused then of shooting another civilian, stealing another car, shooting at yet another civilian and trying to steal a motor
home.
The word is in the investigation that that owner of the motor home wrestled him and was able to get the clip out of his AK. The word from the
investigators also that if he hadn`t gotten that clip out the AK, there would be many more deaths potentially to be reporting tonight.
Hold your thoughts, everybody, for a moment because we`re tracking other breaking news on several stories and several fronts tonight on PRIMETIME
JUSTICE.
[20:15:04]In Florida, police trying to ID two armed men seen on this surveillance video burglarizing a home. It is just west of Cocoa Beach.
Look carefully. You see what you think you`re seeing right there on the couches. Yes, those are sleeping children. These guys are creeping
through this house, creeping past these sleeping children and burglarizing and stealing! Lucky to report no one was hurt. But the video is chilling.
Heated testimony in that death, the hot car death trial in Brunswick, Georgia, the attorney for Justin Ross Harris clashing with the lead
detective in this case after claiming that Harris had a history of neglecting his son. Harris is accused of intentionally leaving his little
son, Cooper, to die in the back seat of an SUV in the hot weather.
We are continuing to follow the latest on the manhunt for Michael Vance. What`s being done to track down this accused murderer?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:02]BANFIELD: We`re following this breaking news out of Oklahoma, murders, carjackings, cop shootings all allegedly by the same armed
fugitive, a serial shooter who went on a deadly rampage. And he is still on the loose, and for some unknown reason, broadcasting his flight,
broadcasting all the way along on Facebook Live, where he was headed and who he was after without naming names.
Joining me again, Dawn Shelter, the publisher of "The Luther Register," and Justin Freiman, PRIMETIME JUSTICE producer.
Justin, you have been digging through the paperwork on this man`s past. And it turns out this is not the first time that Michael D. Vance, Jr., has
been considered dangerous to someone else.
JUSTIN FREIMAN, PRIMETIME JUSTICE PRODUCER (via telephone): That`s right. Actually, people seem to have been afraid of him for quite some time. We
have a protection order that was asked for back in August of 2003 by a woman who was once his roommate. And this woman actually says that, "When
Michael moved out, he began harassing and stalking me. He broke into my home and stole several items." She even says it includes car keys and
stuff from her car. She ended by saying, "I`m very afraid of him and I need protection."
BANFIELD: Now, he also, for his part, Justin, oddly enough, a man who has evoked that much fear in a girlfriend -- also filed some orders of
protection of his own against his family members and against his mother. The judge dismissed them. So clearly, they were considered frivolous.
But what is intriguing is some of the paperwork you were able to dig up on the charges. There`s a charging document that outlines what they`re
accusing Michael D. Vance, Jr., of doing to a minor child, a close family member, which may have actually been the genesis for this crime spree and
being on the run.
What did you find in those charging documents?
FREIMAN: That`s right. Just a few months ago, he was arrested for suspicion of rape by instrumentation, forcibly oral sodomy and lewd acts
with a minor. And they say this minor was a very close family member that he got into bed with.
BANFIELD: What about his past? I understand that that child was able to tell investigators some things about Michael D. Vance, and it`s listed in
the paperwork.
FREIMAN: That`s right. That same victim claims that Vance not only sexually abused her in the past, but has done so to other family members,
as well.
BANFIELD: All right, I want to you listen to some of the witnesses in this community who were actually there when the guns started firing, when the
accusation that Michael D. Vance unloaded an AK-47 and was shooting at police officers. This is what it sounded like to Michael Wayne Cox when
the bullets started flying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard -- shots were going off. (INAUDIBLE) I heard the AK-4 go off, real fast. (INAUDIBLE) whizzed by. I mean, they were
over me. But I was down on the ground behind a woodpile.
It really intensifying that AK-47 (INAUDIBLE) all around, you know what I`m saying? Dude had a big old bag of clips and stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of bullets went flying up there, a lot of bullets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy just come around the truck and started shooting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You could say two thirds of my department was shot. It was around shift change. So I had basically three guys, and it looks like
I`m going to be down two vehicles out of three and two officers out of three.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Two out of the three officers in that entire department shot allegedly by Michael D. Vance, Jr. He`s on the run, and he`s wanted
tonight and he`s dangerous, folks. So if you know or if you see this man, do not get close. Do not approach. Call the tip line, 405-258-1191.
That`s the picture on the screen. You`ll see several other photographs of him cycling through while we`re on and talking about him.
But Dawn Shelton of "The Luther Register," this is your community. And to hear those witnesses and those police officers talk about this, it makes me
think it`s a small enough community that people actually might know Michael Vance, but I don`t think that`s the case, is it.
SHELTON: That is not the case. No one knows him in Luther. He maybe did (ph) most of his life at the next county over in Chandler, east of us.
We`re finding out about him now, of course. But his relatives who are here, even some of the sons and daughters of the victims, don`t know him
real well.
And you know, our hearts are just turned to them now, and we`re vigilant about our community, and the word if he might come back or he might not
come back. But our Luther Police Department, which is bigger than Wellston`s, but Oklahoma County has provided mutual aid. We`ve seen U.S.
Marshals out here. And the kids were able to have football practice today, this afternoon, and...
BANFIELD: Wow!
[20:25:00]SHELTON: ... the kids went out on recess. And so it -- the community -- you can just see us trying to be normal today but vigilant.
The cafe was kind of busy, and you know, people were on our little main street and school was alert and because the authorities were watching it.
So it -- it`s scary, but we are just trying our hardest just to proceed with life and not let him run our lives with rear.
BANFIELD: Hard to believe after the accusations that he shot and butchered his aunt and uncle, that he shot at two police officers, injuring them,
that he shot at two civilians, the bullet hitting one of those civilians. But he stole a patrol car and vehicles, as well, on this crime spree and
that he could be anywhere. According to Sheriff John Whetsel, he could be anywhere in the United States by this point.
The thought is, though, is that he is somewhere in that vicinity in Oklahoma, maybe close to the Texas border, but certainly potentially closer
to Luther, Oklahoma, or to Wellston, Oklahoma. There`s the information on your screen, police searching everywhere at this point for Michael Vance.
If residents spot him first, could they take matters into their own hands?
[20:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Breaking news out of Oklahoma where towns are on edge as a manhunt for an alleged double murderer Michael Vance takes a brand new
urgency. If you see this man, call 911 immediately. Do not approach him. He is dangerous. Extremely dangerous. And he is most likely still armed. And
it is believed he has an AK.
Joining me, Matthew Fogg, retired chief deputy of the U.S. Marshals Service. He has captured over 300 fugitives during his career. Deputy Fogg,
thanks so much for being with us. I want to ask you. If there`s an intense manhunt this big and now we are well past the 48-hour mark, what do they do
about I-40? Where there are something like 35 major truck stops right across the State of Oklahoma? Are they on red alert at everyone of those
truck stops? Or is there something more to it?
MATTHEW, RETIRED CHIEF DEPUTY OF THE U.S. MARSHALS SERVICE: Well, they would be on alert, but the bottom line is, you know, you can`t stop every
vehicle. All you can do is have your folks out there. You got the blue alerts out there. You got police officers. You got networking with the
local sheriffs, U.S. marshals, FBI.
All of the agencies out there working in tandem to work, make this thing happen. And we do this all the time. We track fugitives around the country.
We set up, you know, posts and task forces. So, they`re doing the best they can and believe me, that`s a great job.
BANFIELD: So let me ask you this, Deputy Fogg. There is a Facebook live offering that he did well on the run that maybe gives us some clues as to
who his next targets could be. He talks about someone in this video that he intended as a target. But that they got off easy since the aunt and uncle
ended up murdered as well. Have a listen.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me tell you. It hurts. It sucks. You knew this was gonna happen. That I would get my guns and I would come and you`re just
lucky this went down this way. I was coming for you and that little boy too. This is more intense than what I thought was gonna be, to say the
least. Come on. This truck is about dead. I need it to get out of the road, which I hope it does. Because I`m about to steal another car like right
now. This is gonna be intense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Deputy Fogg, it is frightening to hear that. That there might be another target. The sheriff in the area said that they are protecting some
of the family members who might be targets. But what about others who might actually seek little revenge themselves? Some vigilante justice. This has
to be terribly dangerous.
FOGG: That`s the thing that they have to be concerned about. I mean, who else might want to get pay this guy back? These were two heinous crimes
that he committed with family members. So, you know, you got a lot of folks involved in this thing as far as feelings and emotions. But I think that
for the most part, the sheriff and the FBI and those guys listen to what he said.
They understand exactly what he`s talking about and probably already got that pretty much secured. If you listen to his breathing, it sounds like to
me he is in pain, he is hurting. And it sounds to me a possibility that he could be somewhere where he is actually laid down somewhere and he is
bleeding to death or something of that nature.
BANFIELD: I think for a lot of people in this community, that would be a welcome relief to what they`re dealing with right now. Michael D. Vance, 38
years old, 405-258-1191. The phone number to call. If you see him, stay away from him. We will continue to track this manhunt story. We will
continue to bring updates as well. Thank you so much, Deputy Fogg.
A man rapes his 12-year-old daughter repeatedly. And the judge says serve your 60 days sentence whenever you feel like it.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: How in the world does a judge sentence a man, a man who admits to raping his own 12-year-old daughter multiple times, to just 60 days? 60
days. That`s jail. Not prison. 60. The father even gets to choose the days that he spends in jail. If he wants to do weekends, he can do weekends.
Tonight, there is quite a call out there to have this man, Judge John McKeon, taken off the bench. The calls are getting louder and the
signatures are mounting. Joining me now, Aja Goare, reporter, CNN Affiliate KTVQ. Belvin Perry, retired chief judge of Florida ninth circuit. He
presided over the Casey Anthony murder trial. And Angelica Hernandez, a child advocate and incest survivor. Heather Hansen is the defense attorney.
Aja, first to you, first of all, I think our audience needs to know we can`t show the perpetrator. We can`t identify the perpetrator. Because if
we do that, we identify the victim as it is his daughter. So unfortunately, no picture of the perp. No name. Just the sordid details and a warning to
our audience. Aja, I know what you`re going to tell me is graphic but it is important for our audience to know what he did to his daughter.
AJA GOARE, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE KTVQ: Well, Ashleigh, the court documents describe three separate incidents where the sexual abuse was
perpetrated against this 12-year-old girl. On each of the three occasions, she was either raped or sodomized. On at least two occasions, the girl was
forced to perform oral sex on her father and each of those occasions, she was molested.
We know two of the those three times, the abuse occurred in this girl`s own room. And then on that last occasion, Ashleigh, very disturbing, the girl`s
mother walked into the room, saw what was happening, and turned around and left.
[20:40:00] BANFIELD: Judge Belvin Perry, just so we`re clear, this little girl told investigators that there were five instances of force, that there
were four instances of her father forcing himself into vaginal intercourse with her, and that there were two instances where he sodomized her. This is
what this little girl told the investigators.
This man himself admitted to some of it. His wife first lied but then admitted to some of it as well, to knowing about it. Judge Perry, is there
any circumstance in which you as a judge can understand why anyone who wears the robe would only foresee a sentence of 60 days being okay?
BELVIN PERRY, RETIRED CHIEF JUDGE, FLORIDA 9TH CIRCUIT: Ashleigh, when I heard about this, I was totally mortified. This is an injustice. This
victim was victimized twice. Victimized by her own father, and then victimized by the very court system that was supposed to meet up proper
punishment. He received no punishment in this case.
BANFIELD: I think that`s an understatement. The judge said something along the lines of, a judge shall uphold and promote the independence, integrity,
and impartiality of the judiciary, and shall avoid the impropriety and the appearance of impropriety. A judge shall perform the duties of judicial
office impartiality, competently, and diligently. I am prohibited by the above canons, rules and statute from further comment on this recent Valley
County sentencing.
Which basically means, I`m not talking. So that`s all we had from the judge in this case. But I am very curious about how the judge got there. Angelica
Hernandez, from your advocacy position, as a doctor, as a child advocate, as an incest survivor yourself, how on earth does somebody actually do an
investigation and interview this child, and come up with the idea that this might be okay? Provide the report to the judge that this man could get
counseling and could be treated.
ANGELICA HERNANDEZ, CHILD ADVOCATE AND INCEST SURVIVOR: Well, if anyone knows sexual predators as this man is, anyone in their right mind and that
is competent and understands the psychology of a predator, knows that this man is disturbed. And anything other than that is really neglecting and
sacrificing the child. Because anyone would know that he is a danger to his family and to the community.
BANFIELD: He, by the way, Michael Sullivan, the psychosexual evaluator, gave us a comment just in the last hour. In fact, he said, these matters
are extremely complicated and emotionally charged. They can become highly sensationalized and as a result misunderstood. I believe that it would be
inappropriate for me to specifically address this case.
Heather Hansen, I get it. I don`t wear robe. I don`t fit. But I do know that a 12-year-old child should never be around the man that does that to
her. I don`t care if he is a stranger. I don`t care if he`s a father. But that guy gets to serve weekend jail if he wants and go home with that
child?
HEATHER HANSEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m not 100 percent sure that he`s actually gonna be with the child. There is a lot about this that I`m not
sure of. And one of the rules of his.
BANFIELD: As long as he`s supervised. That`s all it is. If he`s supervised, he can be around kids.
HANSEN: Listen, there`s a lot of problems here and it is not just the judge. By trying to get the judge impeached, you`re not actually solving
the problems. First of all, there was no one who spoke for this victim, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: No kidding.
HANSEN: No one.
BANFIELD: That`s the biggest problem.
HANSEN: That is the biggest problems.
BANFIELD: Including mom and grandma.
HANSEN: That`s right. But including someone like Angelica. Some sort of a victim advocate should have been called if the mother and grandmother were
not going to speak.
BANFIELD: A guardian lied at anything.
HANSEN: On top of that, the fact that the psychosexual evaluator spoke really on behalf of the defendant. The prosecution could have brought
someone else forward. So there are a number of places where there are cracks in the system. I think impeaching the judge first of all is not
likely to happen. He`s retiring within six weeks.
BANFIELD: But don`t judges need to know that community is there judging? Don`t they need to know this isn`t okay? Don`t they need to say, huh! On
the line of discretion, this is not appropriate?
HANSEN: Absolutely. And I think that this type of coverage and we`ve seen this. We`ve been seen this throughout the past few months.
BANFIELD: Amen!
HANSEN: Absolutely. With this type of coverage, the judges do see this. With a judge like this though who is retiring in six weeks, the impeachment
process takes two-thirds of the state legislature or a judicial recommendation so it isn`t going to happen.
BANFIELD: Okay. But you know what? What happens is people like me get on T.V., and we talk about these cases, and we talk about Judge John C.
McKeon. Let me repeat. Judge John C. McKeon thought that the psychosexual evaluator`s report made it okay to give this man 60 days. 60 days for
multiple rapes of his own daughter.
Multiple rapes in which daughter said it hurts, please stop. It hurts, please stop. Multiple rapes in which this child was crying and was ordered
by her father to clean herself up and get into his bedroom. Multiple rapes. 60 days. Serving on the weekends if you want.
That`s what happened in this story. John C. McKeon. Judge John C. McKeon for another two months. Here`s one way to start an uproar. Order thousands
of soldiers to pay back bonuses that they earned for serving during war time. Not kidding.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: At the height of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Pentagon had to make sure there were enough soldiers and active service. So, special
reenlistment bonuses were brought in to entice thousands of soldiers. And guess what? Mistakes were made. They were not eligible, many of them. And
now so many of them are under orders to return that money. Tens of thousands of dollars each in some cases.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
[20:50:00] BRYAN STROTHER, SERGEANT FIRST CLASS: It has been hell. It has been hell. If there is any kind of PTSD I`ve suffered, it has been from
this, not from any place I`ve been.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Sergeant first class Brian Strother, the soldier that you just listened to, is by far not the only one who felt betrayed by his own
country. Joining me, Susan Haley, a 24-year veteran of California National Guards. She served in Afghanistan, at Bagram. She has been ordered to repay
her enlistment bonus.
Master Sergeant Haley, thank you so much for being with me. I`m reading here. You were a signals intelligence analyst. Your son, your oldest son is
a vet. He lost his leg in Afghanistan. You`re married to a 26-year vet. You`re a military family. They ask you to reenlist. They offer you this
bonus. You go ahead and you do it because you think your government got it right. They didn`t. What did the notice say that you got?
SUSAN HALEY, RETIRED NATIONAL GUARD: It told me that I had received fund in violation of federal law.
BANFIELD: How much?
HALEY: The final count was $22,500.
BANFIELD: And they asked you to pay that back right away?
HALEY: Well, in 2012 -- I had been given bonuses in 2003 and 2006. In 2012, I received a letter in the mail saying that I had received these funds in
violation of federal law and that I needed to provide paperwork to them. And within a certain amount of time. And then appeals process and then
before even the appeals process was finished, they were taking money out of my paycheck.
BANFIELD: Did they ever say my bad? Our apologies? We made the mistake?
HALEY: They said they made a mistake. But they said it was still my problem basically.
BANFIELD: And for that mistake that they made, they`re charging you a 1 percent processing fee and interest on those, what? 13 and, was it 10 and
13-year loans?
HALEY: Well, I don`t know, they`re not -- I don`t know what they mean by that. I know that I have to pay interest and I have to pay it back within
about three and a half years.
BANFIELD: Effectively, they`re treating it like loans. Because if you got it in 2003, you know, that`s 13 years ago. So having money for 13 years
that they told you you could have. Now they`re telling you you need to pay. It is appalling what has happened to you, Master Sergeant Haley. Appalling.
Would you agree enlisted, by the way, would you agree enlisted if they didn`t give you this bonus as an enticement?
HALEY: I most likely would have reenlisted anyway. But the bonus was just a bonus.
BANFIELD: Hold that thought for a minute.
HALEY: It was carrot.
BANFIELD: The government needed more soldiers in Iraq and they needed them in Afghanistan. Now, thousands of vets who went and risked their lives are
paying a price. Is help finally on the way? I got something for you in a second.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Will the Pentagon reverse its decision to force thousands of veterans to repay the bonuses? It now says the soldiers actually weren`t
eligible for it. My bad, says the army. You`re too late though. So late today we heard from the senate committee on homeland security and
governmental affairs.
They sent the defense department a cease and desist letter asking that the DOD stop all further collections. So Capitol Hill is saying to the DOD, cut
it out. These are honorable people. You`re killing them. What about the people already in the system?
Joining me now, Tom Perumean, an editor of the advocacyreport.com. Tom, interesting that we hear that Capitol Hill might be doing something about
this. Cease and desist turned out until we come back after the election and figure out maybe some law. But what does that mean for someone like Master
Sergeant Haley who is in the system now? Maybe all future collections are being halted, but what about the people who are in the system now?
TOM PERUMEAN, EDITOR, THEADVOCACYREPORT.COM: They`re caught in the vacuum about -- about what`s going to happen. They are the ones that they`ve been
served the bill. And they certainly have to pay that bill. And until some action is taken by congress, which apparently has known about this for as
much as two years, it`s not going to really, you know, no other action to save these soldiers that have already been billed from getting an immediate
reprieve.
BANFIELD: Tom, I got 30 seconds left. But as I read it and correct me if I`m wrong. One by one, they can strike and waive many of these vets. They
just can`t do it in a blanket fashion or can congress eventually do that?
PERUMEAN: Well, we`ll certainly see what happens. If congress can authorize the Pentagon to, you know, wave a magic wand and say that`s it, we are not
going to collect these bonuses that`s we`re attempting to claw back. We`ll see what congress has to do but the fact of the matter is that congress
needs on act on this and they need to take action as swiftly as possible. Waiting until after the election is just going to compound the problem.
BANFIELD: Well, they`re on election vacation right now. So, I`m not so sure they`ll come back early to handle this. But when they do, if they do, they
better get this right and not attach stupid pork plans to it to fork any bill. Thank you, Tom, I appreciate it. Thank you, everyone. We will see you
right back here tomorrow night at 8 p.m. for PRIMETIME JUSTICE. We spotlight injustice wherever it happens. Stay tuned for "FORENSIC FILES."
[21:00:00]
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