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Obamcare Premiums on the Rise; ISIS Sends Suicide Squads into Mosul; Donald Trump Fights to Bring Down Property Tax; Cleveland Wins Game One in World Series. Aired 10:30-11a ET.

Aired October 26, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:30:00] JONATHAN GRUBER, ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY: Eighty-five percent of people buying insurance on these exchanges get subsidies. And for those people, this premium increase doesn't affect them. Now for those remaining people, that is a problem. And that's something we need to address, but it's not a crisis. It doesn't mean the system is collapsing. And most importantly, it doesn't affect the 150 million Americans who get employer insurance, who have actually seen the premiums fall dramatically relative to what was expected before Obamacare.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN HOST: OK. So let's talk about how exactly you can fix Obamacare. And I just need you to be specific, because I think people really want answers. So Hillary Clinton says she can fix Obamacare. So what would be one fix that would drive premiums down.

GRUBER: Look, once again, there's no sense of oh it just has to be fixed. The law is working as designed; however, it could work better, and I think probably the most important thing experts would agree on is that we need a larger mandate penalty. We have individuals who are essentially free riding on the system. They're essentially waiting until they get sick and then getting health insurance. The whole idea of this plan which was pioneered in Massachusetts was that the individual mandate penalty would bring those people into the system and have them participate. The penalty right now is probably too low and that's something ideally we would fix.

COSTELLO: So somebody who is president could go to congress and say, "You know what, lawmakers, this is a fix. Can you pass this?" Is that what would have to happen to put that fix into place?

GRUBER: Basically, it's hard to know what dramatic fix we could do without congress participating in the process. We could do things like a stronger mandate is one. We could do things like increasing the pressure on states to expand their Medicade programs, a horrible act of political malpractice where states have left millions of people of their lowest income citizens uncovered. We could do things like that, but a lot of that would involve congressional participation. It's hard to know what you can do just on your own as a new administration.

COSTELLO: What about the insurers who have fled the system? How do you convince them to come back or new companies to sign on? GRUBER: Once again, I think the press here has been misleading. Some insurers are leaving. Other insurers are thriving. I think what you have is a system where we've shaken up the status quo, exactly what we expect of new innovation, disruptive innovation if you will, to do. Insurers who were thriving in the old system are finding this new system sort of hard for them. Other insurers are doing really well and what's going to happen is the natural process as the market evolves. These premiums are going to increase. That's going to allow profitable opportunities for new insurers to enter they are(ph) and bring premiums back down. So we're just seeing the ups and downs of a new market. What you have to remember is that premiums in 2014 came in way below what we expected. In fact, where they are today is exactly where they thought they'd be today. It's just they came in lower than we thought and they rose faster than we thought. And that's just some of the unpredictability of a new market. That will settle down over time. And new insurers will enter.

COSTELLO: OK. So hindsight is 20/20, right?

GRUBER: Yes.

COSTELLO: Looking back, is there one thing that you wish was done differently?

GRUBER: I think there's really probably two things I wish was done differently. One is I wish the mandate penalty was stronger. The other, I wish the federal government had done more to get states to expand their Medicaid programs. I think that this is a fundamental flaw in our system that states are leaving so many systems uncovered and citizens who are sick who are coming into this exchange pool and making it more expensive.

COSTELLO: So realistically, you know, after the next president is put into office, what do you think will happen with Obamacare?

GRUBER: I think nothing much is going to happen, to be honest. I think that basically a system that largely works , that the flaws your seeing now or the premium increase you're seeing now are just the natural dynamics of a market as it transitions to its new state, and I think that we're just going to let it go for a couple years and it's going to get better on its own. And basically I think it's a system which largely works.

COSTELLO: What if Donald Trump becomes president, he has a republican congress, and he does repeal it? What happens then?

GRUBER: Well, first of all he won't repeal it. Remember, the whole argument and public debate against this law is that people didn't get to keep insurance they liked. Well, you're going to have 20 million Americans or more who are now getting insurance that they like. You're not going to take that away from them. And let's be clear, there is no replace. There is only repeal. There is no republican alternative to this law, and the reason is because this is fundamentally a bipartisan legislation that was originally drafted on republican principles, to be honest. And so there is no republican alternative. And so his repeal and replace is just repeal and leave people uninsured. That's not going to happen.

COSTELLO: All right, Jonathan Gruber, thanks so much. Coming up in THE NEWSROOM: Iraqi forces closing in on Mosul; as they get closer to the city, families are fleeing ISIS to nearby villages. We'll take you to the front lines next.

[10:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: ISIS is doing everything it can to keep Iraqi forces from liberating Mosul. Witnesses telling CNN ISIS is sending suicide squads form Raqqa and neighboring Syria to Mosul and rigging bridges with explosives. But there are also incredible scenes of joy. Near Mosul, families who were held captive by ISIS for years have been freed by Iraqi forces and you see them there. They're weeping as they're reunited with their parents, with their loved ones. CNN International Correspondent Michael Holmes near the front lines outside of Mosul. Hi, Michael.

[10:39:48] MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Carol. Yes, you know, it was only a few days ago that we were talking to a Sunni tribal leader just west of Mosul, and he was saying how ISIS fighter's families, even leaders, were leaving Mosul and heading into Syria across ISIS held territory. Well what's happened in the last few days according to sources inside of Mosul is there has been traffic back the other way; in this case, suicide squads. We're talking about hundreds of hardcore fighters who've been crossing from Syria into Mosul, wearing, we're told, distinctive uniforms and wearing suicide belts as they come into town. Now these are obviously suicide squads.

They're going to be positioned around and act against Iraqi forces and police when they move into Mosul. Also other activity inside that beleaguered city: We're told that ISIS fighters who are already in there have started pulling back from the eastern side of the city, crossing over the Tigris river, and putting explosives on the four main bridges. And you can guess what they're going to do when Iraqi forces enter the city through those bridges. They're moving to the western side. There you'll find the old city, a rabbit warren of narrow alleyways and roads, wholly unfit for the types of military vehicles that the Iraqis and the Peshmerga fighters have been using in the planes, the towns, and the villages on their way to Mosul. Certainly, an upper hand for those who are incumbent in an urban warfare situation.

I want to tell you some more positive news that comes out of misery, and that is reunions that happened over the last day or so. What happened - this is six villages just to the east of Mosul that Iraqi forces liberated. There were people in there, about a thousand people, a little over a thousand, who had been kept by ISIS as human shields. That was the plan, anyway, until these villages were liberated. And these people were taken back to a camp for internally displaced people, and there they were not only freed but reunited with family members. Now, in some cases, they had not seen these family members since ISIS rolled into this part of Iraq, more than two years ago now. And there were these joyous scenes, emotional embraces, we're told children kissing the feet of their elderly parents. You know, some good news but born out of two years of utter misery living under the rule of ISIS, Carol.

COSTELLO: Michael Holmes reporting live from the battlefield, thanks so much.

Firefighters have spent the day putting out fires at a massive makeshift camp in France known as The Jungle. Officials say four migrants from Afghanistan are under arrest for starting these fires. The camp has been home to as many as 10,000 migrants over the past two years. A team of workers with bulldozers has been working to dismantle it since Monday. Local authorities say the camp will be evacuated and shut down by the end of the day. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:45:00] COSTELLO: Donald Trump is taking time off from the campaign this morning for the grand opening of his new hotel in Washington. He's at the ribbon cutting right now. Trump has been aggressive in fighting to pay as little tax as possible on his dozens of properties and that includes his latest (INAUDIBLE) investigative correspondent Drew Griffin has this for us. Good morning, Drew.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. You know, many of us who have houses like to challenge our property tax bill when we get it, Carol. But what we found in our study of Donald Trump's properties is, almost the second he acquires a property he starts pressuring the local governments to lower his taxes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: It's the shiniest new example of Trump's success, the old D.C. post office project has turned a crumbling Washington landmark into a luxury Pennsylvania Avenue hotel.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: When it's completed, it will be truly one of the great hotels of the world.

GRIFFIN (voice over): A double win for D.C.: New jobs, new business taxes, and a big new piece of commercial property that it can tax. Only, something unusual about that property tax is going on here. according to Trump, his new hotel is worth just a third of what D.C.'s tax assessors claim, at least when it comes to property taxes. While (INAUDIBLE) D.C official (INAUDIBLE) the kind of cut being asked for here is way out of the norm, just not for Donald Trump. Call it good business or call it aggressive anti-tax strategy, it's just what Trump does. CNN has reviewed more than two dozen properties owned or partially owned by Donald Trump in which property tax records could be obtained. We've spoken to tax assessors in each location and found that Donald Trump has filed appeals, petitions, or challenges to lower the taxable value in 25 of 26 buildings, golf courses, and homes; like in the District of Columbia where the current battle over this old post office could cost the district thousands and thousands of dollars annually. D.C. originally assessed the hotel at $98 million. Donald Trump says his assessed property tax value, the possessory interest tax as it's called here, should be reduced to just $28 million. Tax expert Lee Sheppard says this is exactly how big property owners do business. LEE SHEPPARD, TAX EXPERT: Everyone with a big commercial building does that. Everyone. I mean, this is how the system works.

GRIFFIN (voice over): Another case in point, the stunning Trump National Golf Course just north of Charlotte, North Carolina. Before Trump bought it this lakeside course had a tax value at nearly $24 million. But from the moment he bought it, Trump fought the county assessor and today for tax purposes, the course is valued at $9.7 million. Loss to the local county, says North Carolina professor of accounting Hughlene Burton, is substantial.

[10:49:57] HUGHLENE BURTON, NORTH CAROLINA PROFESSOR OF ACCOUNTING: The reduction in the value in this situation would be somewhere between $80,000 to $200,000 per year.

GRIFFIN (voice over): It's the same situation at another Trump golf course in Briarcliff Manor, New York. The assessor has valued the course for tax purposes at $15 million. Trump's lawyers are fighting to have the course valued at a mere fraction of that, $1.4 million. If he wins, town supervisor Dana Levenberg, a democrat, says her town and its citizens will lose.

DANA LEVENBERG, TOWN SUPERVISOR, OSSINING, NEW YORK: And that means a teacher, that means a garbage truck, that means, you know, parks can't be fixed up and fields can't be played on because we are going to have to offset that somehow in the budget.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: Carol, in our review of these properties owned by Donald Trump, we could only find one where he has not sought to reduce his property taxes.

COSTELLO: Which one is that, Drew?

GRIFFIN: Well, funny you should ask. It's the golf course he operates in Bedminster, New Jersey, where he's also held many of his pre-debate sessions with the staff advisors. That course already receives a pretty decent deduction for a different Trump strategy, goats. New Jersey law allows deductions if part of your property is deemed agricultural. He keeps goats on that property for that specific purpose.

COSTELLO: Oh my gosh. I don't even know how to respond. I guess any way to get your taxes down. Drew Griffin, thanks so much.

GRIFFIN: Thank you.

COSTELLO: An intense manhunt now underway in Oklahoma for a gunman accused of killing two people during a violent crime spree. Police say 38-year-old Michael Vance may be armed with an AK47. He's suspected of killing his aunt and uncle and wounding four others, including two police officers. While on the run, Vance posted videos on Facebook taunting police and thanking his sister for "believing in him." Controversial Arizona sheriff Joe Arpaio charged with criminal

contempt for violating a judge's order in a racial profiling case. Six-term sheriff is accused of defying the terms of a 2011 court injunction that barred his officers from conducting immigration patrols. His trial is set for December. Arpaio could face up to six months in jail if is he convicted.

Game one of the World Series is in the books and the Cubs got clobbered. Andy Scholes with this morning's BLEACHER REPORT next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:00] COSTELLO: World Series game one in Cleveland and man, let me tell you, it was all Cleveland. Yes, the Cubs got clobbered. Andy Scholes is live in C-Town, as in Cleveland, with this morning's BLEACHER REPORT. Good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Yes, you couldn't have asked for a better night if you're a Cleveland sports fan. The atmosphere here in downtown Cleveland last night, just electric. I saw a fan walking around with a big poster that said, "It feels like it's been Christmas all year." And that sums up perfectly what it's been like to be a sports fan here in Cleveland over the last year and game one of the Indians really couldn't have gone much better against the Cubs. They're ace Cory Kluber pitching lights out baseball. He was just mowing down the Cubs early in the game, had eight strike outs through the first three innings. That was a World Series record. And the unlikely hero for the Indians was catcher Roberto Perez, the nine hole hitter, the guy that's not expected to do much, only had three home runs the entire regular season, he hit two in game one of the World Series as the Indians went on to win this one easily in a shutout, six to nothing. That's a bit win for the Indians because the winner of game one has gone on to win 12 of the last 13 World Series. And I should note game two, tonight, has been moved up an hour because there is rain in the forecast.

Now the awesome night for Cleveland got started next door last night at Quicken Loans Arena as the Cavs celebrated their first, the city's first championship in 52 years. Lebron and company getting their rings, raising the banner. And then the Cavs, well they definitely looked like the champs against the Nicks; Lebron having an awesome opening game and the Cavs winning a blowout 117 to 88. The NBA actually moved up the ring ceremony for the Cavs 30 minutes so all the fans here in Cleveland would be able to take that in and still have time to either get to game one of the World Series or then just flip their TVs over to that. And, Carol, I went to both. I went to the ring ceremony, watched Lebron and his teammates get their rings and I walked over to Progressive Field. And I saw a cool time lapse of me making the walk over. It only took me about five minutes, but it was really cool to be able to be at both the ring ceremony and game one of the World Series, kind of a unique opportunity right there.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHOLES: And, Carol, I talked about all the cool things for Cleveland right now, you know, you got the Indians and the Cavs winning. They do balance it out quite nicely with the Cleveland Browns who are 0 in 7, the worst team in the NFL right now. A welcome distraction, the Browns are - or I should say the Indians are for the Browns. You know the fans here are just like, the Browns season really isn't happening right now. So they're all in over the Indians.

COSTELLO: The Browns are so bad and no quarterback wants to play for them because if they do they're probably going to get injured. It's just been something

(CROSSTALK)

SCHOLES: Career might not go well.

COSTELLO: You know and I do feel for Cubs fans, I do, but you know I'm a Tigers fan, Cleveland in my division, right? In our division, and I'm from Northeast Ohio and Cleveland's been so beleaguered and they did such a great job during the republican convention and now this. That's why I have to root for Cleveland.

SCHOLES: Yes, and 52 years without any kind of championship, Carol, and now they could get two in a matter of four months. Just what an incredible turnaround.

COSTELLO: I know. It's really exciting. All right, Andy Scholes, reporting live from Cleveland, thanks so much. And thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. "AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.

[10:59:56] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm John Berman.

KATE BOLDUAN: Hi, everybody, I'm Kate Bolduan. It is live at ventapalouza(ph) once again this hour.