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Six More Villages Freed from ISIS Control; Central Italy Hit by Two Earthquakes; Clinton Accuses Trump of Using Undocumented Workers to Buld New Luxury Hotel; Venezuelans Protest Both for and Against President Maduro. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired October 27, 2016 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:00:00] ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN NEWSROOM SHOW HOST: People in Italy are waking up to find buildings destroyed after two earthquakes struck within hours.

Plus.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That can't even clear whether dead bodies from that fighting in case there's a booby trap. This is a place where ordinary life will be impossible for the foreseeable future.

CNN is with Iraqi and Peshmerga forces as they clear ISIS fighters out of villages near Mosul.

And later, Hillary Clinton accuses Donald Trump of using undocumented workers to build his new luxury hotel.

Hello and welcome to all our viewers around the world. I'm Rosemary Church, and this is CNN Newsroom.

ISIS resistance is intensifying as Iraqi-led forces get closer to Mosul. Iraq says it clear six more villages Wednesday but a fight for a key town on the Tigris River is expected to be fierce.

Witnesses say ISIS is sending foreign fighters into defender. Troops were able to free more than 1,000 civilians who were being force to stay in their villages as human shield.

And western leaders are stepping up their plans to isolate the militant's stronghold in Raqqa, Syria, as well.

There are concerns ISIS will try to launch more attacks from there.

The international organization for migration says more than 10,000 people had been displace since the offensive began. But many more are trapped where they are in a war zone.

Nick Paton Walsh visited one village where survivors are cautiously emerging.

WALSH: Each new day is hard fought here in a dust around Mosul where ISIS covered even the tiniest village like O'Mara Kimchi (Ph). Even with American help, an armor it takes days to ISIS dug in.

The problem civilians trapped inside here. But also in Fadiliya next door. That tiny white flag symbolizing an increasingly hazardous problem for advancing forces here moving against ISIS and that civilians caught in this case inside that tiny town, and increasingly now in the crossfire.

There could be as many as 1.2 million people caught between ISIS' medieval death cult and the array of often rival forces taking them on.

They were the O'Mara Kimchi (Ph) before ISIS kicked them out and they sheltered for months in an old farm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (TRANSLATED): We are humiliated. Humiliated in every way. My brother and nephew and another relative went to Mosul when it fell to ISIS. They were abducted and disappeared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: Suddenly two men are led forward. The village has informed on them. One the father of an ISIS leader, another, a brother. This has the process of recrimination will be happening now slowly over villages all across this area in northern Iraq, who collaborated with ISIS who worked with them and what happens to these people now.

Tomorrow, it's no easy task. On still spotless Astro turf, children insuppressible. Yet, still mortars land meters away. The man trying to digest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (TRANSLATED): I took my cousin's body from the morgue. It had a bullet in the head. They came after him and took him for 20 days then told me to pick up his body from the morgue. I saw horrible things there. There was scattered, shot, it was full of bodies. That's what they do to people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: We drive to the village to see what its best. Endless mines we are warned. Yet very few ISIS flags. Maybe not needed as only ISIS' loyal fighters live here and die here, too. Their contortions hide whether they felt fear or abandoned when they fell.

The town has already been through the nightmare of having ISIS live in it and be purged from it. But they can't even clear or whether dead bodies from that fighting in case there are booby traps.

This is a place where ordinary life will be impossible for the foreseeable future. Dusk falls and yet more flee the olive groves in to the dust again. Priest heard it unsure who to ask where home is now.

[03:05:04] Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, O'Mara Kimchi (Ph), northern Iraq.

CHURCH: And let's get more on the offensive now. Our Michael Holmes is near the Mosul front line. He joins us now live. So, Michael what more can you tell us about the change in ISIS' tactics as this offensive draws ever closer to Mosul?

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and it does draw ever closer in a lot of places around Mosul. Iraqi or Kurdish forces are within a little of four kilometers of the city's outskirts.

What we are seeing in some parts is an attempt by ISIS to delay that advance. So, not everyone is at the same distance from Mosul, which of course would allow them for entry into the town, the city in a uniform way.

There's a town called Hammam al-Alil as one example, that's about 15 kilometers south of Mosul on the ISIS -- on the Tigris River. And witnesses have been reporting that a number of ISIS fighters have been moved in there.

Now these are some of the more capable fighters, foreigners like Chechens, Tunisians and Moroccans and so on. That town is surrounded but what you can expect there is a fight to the death from those very determined foreign fighters who probably also have things like car bombs and truck bombs at their disposal.

Delaying tactics, if you like, also trying to degrade the Iraqi military in terms of equipment but importantly, perhaps to in terms of morale by putting up a stand in places like that, it allows ISIS to continue its preparations inside of Mosul. It's of course had two years to do so.

And we do know of a number of preparations that have been made, suicide squads moving in to the town over the last few days, indistinctive uniforms, wearing suicide belts and most of them too, foreigners.

We have heard of car and truck bombs being positioned around the outskirts of Mosul and readiness for any advance by Iraqi forces. And even rocket launchers being put on at least three sides of the city.

So, the preparations are being made inside the city. Outside in a few places we are seeing this fierce resistance. Probably designed to degrade Iraqi capability but also delay the advance and perhaps damage morale. Rosemary?

CHURCH: All right. Our Michael Holmes, just near the Mosul front line there, where it is after 10 o'clock in the morning. Many thanks to you, Michael.

Joining me now to talk more about this is CNN military analyst General Mark Hertling. Thank you so much for being with us. Now the battle for Mosul is advancing ever closer.

And as we heard, Iraqi commanders say six more villages have been liberated. How concerned are you about the inevitable urban warfare that will of course unfold once the coalition forces arrive in the city?

MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, having fought in Mosul before myself, Rosemary, it's going to be a very difficult battle. The eastern side of town, which the Peshmerga and the Iraqi security forces are approaching now has not been as tough and they have made greater strides than they anticipated at this point.

But I believe that's because the ISIS forces are delaying on that side of town. They are - they are basically moving as soon as they are shot at, they are pulling off suicide vests.

But the real fight is going to be on the western side of the Tigris River in Mosul. That's where most of the large sprawling urban areas are. There's an airport on that side of the river. There's a lot of slums, as well as a lot of more fancy houses for the Iraqi elite that live on that side of the river.

But the old cities on that side of the river, as well. And that means a lot of labyrinth and streets and a lot of underground marketplaces and a lot of potential for tunnels and really tough fighting between the Iraqi security forces and ISIS when they get on that side of the river.

CHURCH: And how long do you think that will take?

HERTLING: Well, this is a large city. As you know, a population of over 1 million Iraqis normally live there. And there's a lot of places where ISIS can hide. And they will fight to the death, as we've seen and seen reports of ISIS fighters reinforcing the western side, already wearing suicide vests.

Most of them likely foreign fighters from outside of Iraq and even from Syria, probably from other nations that are trying to consolidate in that part of the town.

So, they are going to fight and try and take as many Iraqi security forces with them when they die. So, it is going to be bloody. There will be a lot of house born improvise explosive devices.

I'm sure there will be bevies of car bombs and IEDs along the roads. And the forces are going to meet up with quite a few ISIS snipers who are going to shoot as long as they can and then try to take as many as what they call infidels along with them when they execute their suicide vests.

[03:10:07] CHURCH: And as this advance takes place, of course, a U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter has revealed that the offensive against ISIS in Raqqa, Syria, will begin in just a matter of weeks from now. How different will that fight for the ISIS capital be to what we are witnessing right now?

HERTLING: Yes, extremely different. For a variety of reasons. First of all, there is a newly reborn Iraqi security force, which is doing most of the fighting in Mosul. Estimates anywhere from 65,000 to 80,000 varieties of Iraqi forces, Peshmerga, army, PMUs, even the tribal forces are fighting to regain Mosul in the area around it. When you get to Raqqa, there's still the civil war. And the Syrian

refugees and the Syrian freedom fighters are going to attempt to contribute to the retaking of Raqqa, but that's not their primary focus. Their primary focus is Assad.

And you are also going to have the challenges between the way we see the fight against ISIS and the way Turkey and our Turkish NATO allies see the fight against Assad and who contributes to that fight? Will the Kurdish YPG be allowed to contribute to the fight or will Turkey in some political way try and prevent them from doing that?

And again, Raqqa is a very large city, too. Not quite as large as Mosul but it is still a sprawling multi-story and Raqqa -- and ISIS has been there for a very long time. So the defensive positions are well in place and they are going to fight to the death.

CHURCH: All right. And we'll be watching very closely. General Mark Hertling, always great to talk with you. Thanks so much.

HERTLING: Thank you. It's a pleasure, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Well, people in central Italy are waking up to the aftermath of two powerful earthquakes. The tremors hit not far from where a quake killed almost 300 people just two months ago.

The first earthquake on Wednesday night was a magnitude 5.5 Then, a 6.1 magnitude quake hit near Perugia. So far no reports of any deaths but there is some damage.

And Barbie Nadeau joins us now from Campi in Italy, near the epicenter of the earthquake. So, Barbie, certainly thankful that there were no reports of deaths, but there is damage. What are you seeing there and what are what are you hearing?

BARBIE NADEAU, CNN ROME CONTRIBUTOR: Well, there's some serious damage and there's still aftershocks. We just feel like a couple of seconds ago. We have been feeling those on and off throughout the night.

But if you look behind me, this was a 15th century church. Really the postcard of this area this part of Italy. During the first earthquake, the 5.5, two giant fissures were created in the facade of the church. During the 6.1 earthquake two hours after that, it just fell apart.

The church is completely destroyed and exposing this ancient frescos and just a beautiful art work inside the church. So, we've seen this case -- this repeat itself over this community where the first earthquake did some damage and the second one really did much more devastating damage.

Some towns are inaccessible right now. You can't get to them. One of the bright spots of this, if you could even call it that, is the fact there weren't a lot of people here. That's why we are not seeing a massive loss of life and injury. And that's because so many people left after the August earthquakes where they killed 300 people. A lot of people are still living in tents, temporary homes, have just

moved to live with other relatives or staying in hotels. We spoke to a woman who has been in a hotel since then and was shaken out of hotel that she moved to her car and she slept there overnight last night.

The people here are just in a sense of shock and panic. And they just -- this doesn't feel like it's over. It's not this earthquake happened now they can move on because the ground is still moving. It feels very fresh and it feels very much like it is still going on. Rosemary?

CHURCH: Yes. And as we've been talking to you we're looking at these live pictures, we can see the damage there on the ground. And talk to us more about just how nervous people are. Because it was so close to the deadly earthquake that took place two months ago.

And the problem is a lot of these structures, once they are hit like this it's very difficult and very dangerous to actually stay in those homes. So, talk to us about what the government is doing in terms of offering alternatives for housing and other needs that these families will have.

NADEAU: Well, one of -- you know, the earthquake in August, two months ago, they are still living in tents. They haven't put up the pre-fab houses yet. So that tells you just how slow the process is to sort of get people in the even semi-temporary homes.

[03:14:59] But these people here are don't really know what to do. They live in a seismic area, they certainly know that these sort of things happen here. There are remnants from earthquakes in the 16th and 17th centuries here along the countryside.

But what's happened and where people feel a little bit let down is that the government hasn't done what they feel they should in order to help people put the anti -- anti-earthquake and seismic reinforcements in the houses.

And that's something -- we spoke to a man who said that about this church. There was no seismic reinforcement in this beautiful church. Rosemary?

CHURCH: Yes. That is a big problem. Barbie Nadeau joining us there from Campi, Italy. Many thanks to you for bringing us up to date on the situation on the ground.

So, let's turn to our Pedram Javaheri, he's our meteorologist and he joins us now with more on these quakes. Give us an idea on what people can expect in terms of aftershocks. We heard Barbie there refer to some of those.

And of course it's a real concern for people, but also talk to us about the weather going forward. Because that's going to be critical certainly for those people who can't stay in their own homes.

PEDRAM JAVAHERI, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Correct. Yes. And some big changes as well across this region that we'll touch on momentarily. but you take a look at this quake. It was felt by over 30 million people. And we know about 300,000 of them feeling very strong shaking across this particular region.

And that's a complex setup, Rosemary. When you take a look at the Eurasian plate, the African, the Adria microplate, all of them coming together across this region. We had thousands of quakes in recorded history across the area and of course a collision area and a subduction area, as well to work with across this region.

But you notice, since 1997 we've had now four quakes of 6.0 or greater. Of course just a couple of months ago, we saw one that took with it almost 300 lives there at 6.2. This particular one, the difference here is that we are seeing this quake come in in the evening hours.

Big, big difference in what happened a couple of months ago with that quake happening at around 3.30 in the morning when people were asleep, very vulnerable to this.

This time we had a 5.5, a couple of hours later we have a 6.1. So folks had the opportunity to potentially be alerted a little bit and then get out of their properties which is typically what kills people.

But when it comes to aftershocks, you look at this, a 6.0 generates typically one 5.0 aftershock that. That has not happened yet, Rosemary.

And then, you look at 4.0 about 10 of them typically occur and threes to get into the thousands. But the largest aftershocks would be expected within 24 to 36 hours of the initial quake. That is what we think, Thursday certainly could bring another large aftershock before conditions begin improving in that sense.

And weather-wise there is a storm system departing across southern Italy. So this particular region will remain rather dry. That's good news.

But what we do know is the temperatures are going to cool off. Of course we're headed into November. They're down to about 11 to 12 degrees, 16 is what is normal. We should make it to normal by Saturday but still that chilly time of the year, especially in the overnight hours as we go into the weekend, Rosemary?

CHURCH: Yes. At least it is going to be dry. That is very important. Pedram Javaheri, thank you so much for bringing everyone up to date on the situation there. I appreciate it.

JAVAHERI: Thank you.

CHURCH: Well, Samsung's disastrous smartphone is burning up the company's profits. Next, how much the company lost after reports the Galaxy Note 7 burst into flames.

[03:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: NATO is preparing for its largest military buildup near Russia's border since the Cold War. At a meeting in Brussels on Wednesday members of the western alliance

including the U.S. and Britain promised to support the deployment. It's meant to stop Russia's military aggression in Eastern Europe.

This all comes as two Russian warships, armed with cruise missiles, entered the Baltic Sea between Sweden and Denmark. Separately at least three other Russian warships are believed to be on their way to Syria.

And joining me again is CNN military analyst General Mark Hertling to talk more about this beefing up of Russia's Baltic fleet in the midst of NATO tensions. So, what does this mean do you think and where is it all going?

HERTLING: It is happening for several reasons, Rosemary. First of all, I think the Russians are attempting to intimidate. They are trying to strike back at the various factors that have been involved with the Ukrainian fight and what Western Europe is attempting to do to get them out of eastern Ukraine and the Crimea.

But it's also the protecting of their bases in Kaliningrad. That small Russian naval compound has seen the advantage of being on the Baltic Sea, right between the two NATO nations of Lithuania and Poland.

It has been a contentious spot for several years, but in the last several months it's been even more so.

I think part of that has been because of the intimidations back and forth, not only in Ukraine but also what Russia has been doing in Syria, and they want to reestablish their weight as a regional power in Europe.

There have been many conversations between Secretary Lavrov and Mr. Kerry in terms of what is happening and what are the tits for tat going on in Europe. The sanctions that have been placed on Russia has forced Mr. Putin to flex his muscles and show off his power. And he's doing that against NATO nations like Poland and Lithuania, as well as snubbing the nose at the United States.

Now what's happened in the last few days, is that there's been the insertion of two more corvette cruisers, small, fast ships, smaller than cruisers and destroyers but fast enough and armed enough to carry the caliber cruise missile, which the Russian forces have in their Baltic fleet.

That's a very dangerous step up in terms of intimidation because when you have that kind of missile system that close to NATO forces with a lot of exercises going on, all of the NATO exercises are -- Russia is given warning when those take place, but they are still something they don't like to see happening there on their borders.

This has been going on in all the Baltic States for several years. It was happening when I was a -- when I left as commander of Europe in 2013 and it's much more intensified today than it was when I was there.

CHURCH: How concerned should we be? Nations, you mentioned Poland and Lithuania but the international community. How alarming is this?

HERTLING: It is very alarming from the standpoint of Russia using its military power. What I would suggest is Russia is failing in the other elements of national power, their economy, their diplomatically, and their information.

Now certainly the diplomatic community has been attempting to thwart Mr. Putin in some of his actions in various locations around the globe as a bully. So, he is losing diplomatically. His economic situation I think he is negative 4 percent on his GDP for the last six months or so.

So, you are seeing an economic condition due to low oil prices caused him to try and use his military power, and he's certainly trying to use that, as a means to not only garner public support within Russia but also intimidate the west when he is losing on the other fronts.

CHURCH: It is a real concern I think for everyone watching this. General Mark Hertling, thank you so much for explaining it so well to us. We appreciate it.

HERTLING: Thank you, Rosemary.

CHURCH: And to another story we are watching closely, the world's largest smartphone maker just saw its quarterly profits go up in smoke.

Samsung's earnings are down 30 percent over this time last year. The company blames the massive recall of its Galaxy Note 7 phones after numerous reports of it bursting into flames.

[03:25:04] The Korean Electronics Company lost nearly $2 billion and its revenue was down more than 3 billion.

Well, Alexandra Field is live in Seoul, South Korea, with more on this. So, Alexandra, given what happened with the Galaxy Note 7 phones, was anyone surprised with the loss and earnings and what does this mean going forward for Samsung?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look, Rosemary, frankly, everyone saw it coming when you consider that this was a dangerous debacle, an embarrassing debacle and now it's proving to be a very costly debacle for Samsung.

Executives had come out earlier this month announcing that they expected these kinds of losses for their third quarter profits. That was confirmed. That suspicion was confirmed when the actual reports came out today. And you should see this carry forward in the next quarter and even in to next year.

There are analysts who are predicting that Samsung will lose billions more in profits by the midway point of 2017.

However, Samsung, even with this bleak report is sounding some note of optimism saying they expect some recovery in that mobile sector because of strong sales for the s7 and the s7 edge. Those are two other mobile models.

They are hoping that will help them recover after the embarrassment of Note 7 which has become this international story, affecting the world's largest smartphone maker.

People here in South Korea keeping a very close eye on what happens with Samsung in the next quarter and in the next year. We know that this is a company that is very closely tied to the South Korean economy. It's one of the largest exporters in South Korea.

And just this week South Korean officials coming out and saying that slowed growth in the third quarter was directly a result, in part, related to this Samsung problems, Rosemary?

CHURCH: Yes. And we will continue to watch this story, as will you. Alexandra Field, reporting there from Seoul, in South Korea where it is 4.26 in the afternoon. Many thanks.

Well, Donald Trump mixes business with politics as he cuts the ribbon on his new hotel just blocks from the White House. Why Hillary Clinton is blasting the move. We'll explain.

[03:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: And a warm welcome back to our viewers from all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church. I want to update you now on the main stories we've been following this hour.

Iraqi commanders say six more villages are free of ISIS militants as forces advance closer to Mosul. The troops face a key battle for a town couth of Mosul. Witnesses say ISIS is sending suicide squads from Syria to help defend Mosul.

Two powerful earthquakes hit central Italy not far from where a quake killed almost 300 people just two months ago. A 6.1 magnitude quake hit near Perugia on Wednesday night. About two hours earlier, a 5.5 magnitude quake hit nearby. No deaths thankfully have been reported.

Anti-U.S. protesters marched again to the American embassy in the Philippines, they are demanding U.S. troops get out of the country. A similar protest turned violent last week. The controversial Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte called on Tuesday for all foreign troops to leave his country.

Donald Trump takes his presidential campaign to the battleground state of Ohio in the day ahead.

On Wednesday, he was in Washington, just blocks from the White House for the grand opening of his new hotel. And that drew some sharp criticism from his democratic rival Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(APPLAUSE)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He relied on undocumented workers to make his project cheaper. And most of the products in the rooms were made overseas. And he even sued to get his taxes lowered.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We didn't have one illegal immigrant on the job. Everybody knows it. Nobody was -- believe me, we could have hired plenty. They're all over the place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Well, First Lady Michelle Obama will campaign alongside Hillary Clinton in North Carolina Thursday. It is a battleground state Trump needs desperately to win.

CNN's John King is at the magic wall.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A brand new Fox News national poll puts Hillary Clinton's lead at 3 points. And when you average that out with all the other recent national polls or CNN poll of polls it shows a shrinking, but still significant Clinton lead.

Forty seven to 41 nationally over Donald Trump as we head into the final 12 days of campaigning. When you go to the states though, it gets more interesting when you start thinking about can Donald Trump pull off an epic comeback?

Let's start in Florida. You look at the numbers here in the state of Florida, a Bloomberg Politics poll out today, it shows Donald Trump actually leading in Florida, 45 percent to 43 percent. That's a statistical tie.

Other polls have shown Clinton with a narrow lead but clear Trump momentum in Florida. That's good for Donald Trump because he needs to win Florida. The reasons why are quite interesting.

If you look at why candidates get their support, if this election is about creating jobs and about changing Washington, Donald Trump wins by a big margin. If it is about who has the right temperament to be president, who would be a role model, Hillary Clinton wins on that.

So watch the candidate in this final 13 or 12 days try to frame to voters on what this election is most about. Some other polling at the state level, battleground New Hampshire it's smaller state. A mix verdict here. If you look at this poll from Monmouth University, it shows a closer race, a four-point Clinton lead in that state where she has had a big lead.

But NBC/Wall Street Journal also out with a new numbers that still show a nine-point Clinton lead. So, we'll keep an eye on New Hampshire. Clearly of a volatile electorate. Some changes as we head into the final weeks.

But we leave that one advantage to Clinton at the moment. And now let's head out west. This one here more encouraging news for the Trump campaign. Nevada key to both of Barack Obama's big victories, well, NBC/Wall Street Journal poll tonight has it 43-43, a dead heat in the state of Nevada. A critical state for Donald Trump as he tries to get to 270 and a

critical state for Hillary Clinton as she hopes to block him.

So, let's go to the map that matters most. The race to 270, we, at the moment still have Secretary Clinton winning overwhelmingly so. But what this new day to do. It makes us think about Nevada, maybe Donald Trump can take Nevada. If he does that he changes the map.

What about Florida, if he can hold that momentum, Donald Trump he needs to win Florida. If he can do that, she is still above 270, but now Trump is back in play. Back in play but still a very steep hill for the final dozen days.

Donald Trump must win North Carolina, must win Ohio, and Mike Pence out in Utah today.

[03:35:01] Mike Pence campaigning in the west. These are ruby red republican states. Donald Trump doesn't have them yet, he must get them back heading into the final week. If he gets them back that is in play, but even then he needs to change another one of these blue state to get there.

So, is Donald Trump in play, is this poll -- are these new polls more encouraging, yes, but is the still very, very steep? Absolutely.

CHURCH: Joining me now is republican strategist Brian Robinson and Tharon Johnson, who is a Hillary Clinton supporter and democratic strategist. Thank you, gentlemen for coming in. We do appreciate it.

BRIAN ROBINSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes, it's good to be here.

CHURCH: So, we've seen in these polls this tightening race, particularly in Florida. And that is a critical state for both candidates here.

And up to this point of course, we've heard from Donald Trump saying that the polls are rigged.

ROBINSON: Right.

CHURCH: But now we are seeing that he's ahead in Florida. We are not hearing that so much. So, how does it play out with the electorate when you're calling them rigged behind when you're behind but you accept them when you are ahead, Brian.

ROBINSON: I think that his voters have shown over and over again, going back to early in the primary that they can look past a lot of the bluster that he spouts from the podium.

You know, they love the show. They love that he's -- that he represents their anger. And that's what really matters that he's going to go and change Washington which they see as broken. That detail don't really seem to matter to them.

CHURCH: Tharon, what do you say to that? THARON JOHNSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think the bottom line is

this, you know, Donald Trump starts at 206 electoral votes. Those are the amount of votes that Mitt Romney received in 2012.

So, let's just hypothetically say and I'm not saying he will win Florida. I think ultimately Hillary Clinton will win Florida, that will be 29 electoral votes but then he has to go win states like Ohio, he's got to win New Hampshire, and he's got to win Iowa, which we just saw that he is down in Iowa, he's down in New Hampshire.

And he's within the margin of error in Florida. And in Ohio, he's actually behind. And so, I think ultimately, the problem with Donald Trump's campaign is that he's really failed to build a coalition you need to win a general election.

Listen, if only white men in America were voting in this election, Donald Trump would be the next president of the United States, but he fails to realize that there are going to be women voting, there are going to be Latino voters voting, there are going to be Muslim- Americans and Asian-Americans, and more importantly African-Americans.

He has done a very poor job of reaching out to those folks. And I think ultimately that's why he is not going to be the next president of the United States.

CHURCH: I mean, there's a problem here, Brian. You got the DNC suing the RNC saying that they're not doing enough or saying enough to counter this argument of the election being rigged.

And by continually laboring that point that the elections will be rigged, which they won't and there's no evidence that they will be.

ROBINSON: Right.

CHURCH: It means that you exclude some minority voters who think well, OK, if it's rigged I'm not going to go out there. What do you say to that, how do you counter that argument? Do you agree that the GOP are not saying enough?

ROBINSON: No, it's not their job to do that. And I think as the party -- the party's job is to back the candidate who's nominated. That is what they're doing. But when it comes to republican rank and file and republican leaders, I see them stepping out every day in the media, in public saying, Donald Trump is saying something that's dangerous for our democracy.

We got to be able to accept this election. It's important for the future of this country. Even Kellyanne Conway, his campaign manager says that. Even Mike Pence, his V.P. candidate says that.

So, the idea that republicans aren't out there countering an irresponsible message is flatly wrong. Even internally in Trump's orbit, republicans are stepping out and saying the right things, saying the responsible things.

JOHNSON: Here's the bottom line, is Donald Trump has no republicans coming to his defense. No one is coming to say, you know what, Donald Trump is absolutely wrong. I mean, Rosemary, he's attacking the core of America. He's attacking our democracy to infer and insinuate that the elections will be rigged is just so disingenuous.

I mean, what he's really doing is that he is basically setting up the narrative for his defeat. I mean, he's already whining. I mean, President Obama said listen, stop whining. Don't start complaining about the process.

But the truth of the matter is that Donald Trump is trying to divide this country. And I've truly believe that Hillary Clinton, not only needs to be the next president of the United States because she is a democrat and she's sane and she's fit, but more importantly, I think that she is living up to her campaign slogan, which is stronger together.

And as citizens of America, I mean, we always have been very strong together and we've always been able to prosper when we work together. But we can't let Brian and others come with this divisive rhetoric saying that oh, my God, people will feel broken and people left out.

We got our president, President Obama who has an approval rating right now that's very high. American people right now believe in his leadership and they trust him.

CHURCH: All right. But there are...

(CROSSTALK)

ROBINSON: I agree with him that that her campaign is represented by stronger together. That is meaningless blather. And that's exactly what her campaign has been.

(CROSSTALK)

[03:40:00] CHURCH: All right. Well, let's go back to her campaign. Because WikiLeaks and these e-mails that keep dripping, dripping, dripping, coming out and of course we've got this that the releasing of the hacked e-mails from campaign manager john Podesta, a Clinton aide saying Clinton has, quote, "terrible instincts," and Podesta saying someone in the Clinton team weren't forthcoming with the facts on the private e-mail server.

I mean, just how bad is this likely to be for her? Because it will not go away. Every single day we are hearing about more leaks.

JOHNSON: But two responses to that. Number one, I was on the presidential campaign in 2012, Rosemary. And listen, do we have e-mail exchanges where we may say things that maybe inappropriately conveyed to the public to gain a center view for the candidate to discuss how we may want to respond or promote an issue, absolutely.

But I know John Podesta. He is a great man. In no way, shape, form or fashion that he was trying to insult the person that he's ultimately going to be working for.

CHURCH: So, Brian, what impact is this having then?

ROBINSON: I think John Podesta's e-mail is the most frank, honest things come out of the Clinton campaign from the very beginning. That she has bad instincts, that she is driven towards secrecy and will never apologize or admit that she was wrong. You know, he goes on and on in there about how she is giving interviews and refusing to say hey, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have done this.

(CROSSTALK)

JOHNSON: no, that's not true, Rosemary.

ROBINSON: That's what he says.

JOHNSON: You guys -- you guys have proven -- you guys have misrepresented on the show. Where she came out and she said exactly this, "I'm sorry about the e-mails." But to say that...

(CROSSTALK)

ROBINSON: Days later.

JOHNSON: But to say that she didn't apologize I think is inaccurate. She said I would do it differently.

CHURCH: But it hasn't put it to bed, has it?

JOHNSON: Well, because you know why we haven't put it to bed, is because there are hackers out there, particularly folks who we think are from Russia who is intentionally trying to frame this election and sway it in the way of Donald Trump.

And this whole WikiLeaks thing, I mean, look, the real issue with this WikiLeaks is not so much that they are trying to influence the outcome of a presidential campaign. It's a national security campaign.

And me as an American who lives here, the fact that someone can go in and hack my personal e-mails or someone who is running for president personal e-mails and display them and tamper them, because let's not forget these e-mails are have not been authenticated. So, we don't know how real they are.

But it's definitely a failed attempt by Trump, Trump campaign and the WikiLeaks to try to influence this race.

CHURCH: All right. I want to move in to another issue, because of course, we all saw that rather heated exchange between Fox News host Megyn Kelly and Trump surrogate Newt Gingrich.

And I just want to listen for a moment, if we can, to Trump's reaction to that exchange and then to a little bit of that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Congratulations, Newt, on last night. That was an amazing interview. (APPLAUSE)

NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: Do you want to go back through the tapes of you recently? You are fascinated with sex and you don't care about public policy.

MEGYN KELLY, THE KELLY FILE SHOW HOST: Me, really?

GINGRICH: Now that's what I get out of watching you tonight.

KELLY: You know what? Mr. Speaker, I'm not fascinated by sex. But I am fascinated by the protection of women and understanding...

GINGRICH: OK.

KELLY: ... what we're getting in the Oval Office.

GINGRICH: OK.

KELY: And I think the American voters would like to know.

GINGRICH: And therefore we're going to send Bill Clinton back to the east wing because after all you were worried about sexual predators.

KELLY: Yes, listen, it's not about me. It's about the women and men of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: All right. Brian, I want to go to you. Because an extraordinary exchange there with Newt Gingrich clearly attacking Megyn Kelly there and then you have Trump congratulating him. How does that exactly reach out to women voters? He is struggling to appeal to them at this point?

ROBINSON: Yes, not a great strategy to get that vote that you really need to bring in to put you over the top. But then again, I do think many republican women see what Newt Gingrich was saying and agree with him that there is a vast disparity in the negative coverage of Trump.

And the negative coverage of Clinton that get a -- you know, as Newt said in the interview, 23 minutes of attacks on Trump and seven minutes on the WikiLeaks and on the stories on Clinton. And that's how it has been the whole campaign.

(CROSSTALK)

CHURCH: But Trump -- the Trump campaign does keeps providing the media with a lot of stuff and he just can't play back.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBINSON: Absolutely he's honest. He feeds it, yes. And that is going to be probably what brings his campaign down at the end of the day. It's just like in the debate last week when she was asked about these leaks she pivoted to Putin, and instead of keeping the topic on the leaks and her hypocrisy and her pandering to Wall Street and lying about it to average Americans, he pivoted to Putin, too. It's just a huge blunder.

JOHNSON: But this was another missed opportunity for Donald Trump to come out and, Rosemary, and be presidential. To say, you know what, I support Newt Gingrich. He is a supporter of my campaign. He could have probably handled it a little differently.

But he -- you know, it was so contrast, that he egged him on and he complimented him for getting in a very national verbal altercation with a woman at a time when you are struggling with women voters.

[03:45:00] And so, I think that again, if you look at the conduct between the two candidates, Hillary Clinton from the inception of this campaign until today has handled herself in a very presidential way.

Donald Trump continues to entertain us in America and I think that voters are going to be smart enough to know that we don't want an entertainer in the White House. We want someone who is going to bring us together and lead us to the future.

CHURCH: All right. We'd love to continue talking. We have to wrap it there. Tharon Johnson and Robin Robinson, thank you so much, both of you for joining us in this discussion. I appreciate it.

ROBINSON: Thank you, Rosemary.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

CHURCH: Well, protests get violent in Venezuela as the president and the opposition face off. We'll have the details for you next. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Well, demonstrators were out in force across Venezuela on Wednesday with protests both for and against the government of Nicolas Maduro. The interior minister says unrest led to the dozens of injuries and the death of a police officer.

CNN's Shasta Darlington has more.

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thousands of Venezuelans took to the streets on Wednesday in protest, some of the protests turning violent in different regions, in Caracas, demonstrators packed on to a major highway.

They called for a general election on Friday and said they would march on the presidential palace next week if their demands aren't heard.

The opposition accuses the embattled President Nicolas Maduro of acting like a dictator when his government quashed efforts to hold a nationwide referendum that could have seen him voted out of office this year.

Now, anger and frustration with Maduro and his government have grown as the crisis has deepened. The inflation is skyrocketing. There are serious shortages of food and medicine that have sent Venezuelans pouring across the borders in to Colombia and Brazil.

But last week, government blocked the efforts to hold a referendum. Now the opposition says it's going to take to the streets again if those objections aren't lifted.