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Nine Days Until Election Day; FBI Discovered Huma Abedin's E- mails Weeks Ago; Clinton Controversy Potential Game-Changer for Trump; Bill Clinton and Tim Kaine Stumping for Hillary; Can McMullin Block Clinton and Trump from Electoral College Majority? Aired 5-6p ET
Aired October 30, 2016 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: How will the Trump campaign react to the revelation? We will soon find out when the GOP nominee speaks at a rally in Colorado.
CNN Justice Correspondent Evan Perez joins me now from Washington on the phone. Evan, walk through this timeline with me. And also, just explain, why would the FBI sit on knowledge of these e-mails for weeks if they were going to release them anyway?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Poppy. The issue here now is we are learning for the first time that the FBI was aware -- was aware that the -- I'm sorry, Poppy, I've been getting a lot of feedback on our conversation right now.
We're told that the FBI director was fully briefed on Thursday, that is the day before he disclosed to members of congress that there was an issue with the Clinton investigation that may have been found with these Huma Abedin e-mails.
However, the team that was investigating the Weiner investigation -- that was conducting the Weiner investigation, learned of this much earlier, as early as the first week of this month, when they first learned that there were some e-mails from Huma Abedin that were contained on Anthony Weiner's computer.
And that set off a cascade of events inside the FBI as they tried to figure out exactly how many e-mails they were talking about, what type of e-mails they were.
There was a lot of technical work that was done, including looking at the metadata to see whether or not the e-mails went through the Clinton e-mail server. And that became clear certainly by mid-month that there was an issue here.
We're told that the officials of the FBI decided that it was not yet time to seek a search warrant because they needed to know more. They need to figure out exactly what they were dealing with here and that's why we now have this letter going from Director of the FBI, James Comey, on Friday, just 11 days before the election. Poppy?
HARLOW: It is a stunning revelation. Again, Evan breaking the news just this afternoon. Thank you very much, Evan, for that. More from Evan later.
Let's go to where Donald Trump is. He is set to speak at a rally in Colorado in just a little bit and we'll see if he does talk about these new revelations and what he says. Our Senior White House Correspondent Jim Acosta is traveling with the Trump campaign, covering the candidate. He is in Greeley, Colorado tonight.
You've covered both the Clinton campaign and the Trump campaign as well as obviously covering the White House for us. What is your take on how this new timeline, this new revelation that the FBI had these e-mails for weeks and didn't say anything until 11 days out, how does that affect this whole race now nine days out?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, I certainly think it changes the contours of this campaign. It certainly has given the Trump campaign an opportunity to be on offense.
When is the last time that they've been on offense for a few days in a row? We haven't seen that for several weeks from Donald Trump. They're used to playing defense against -- whether it is allegations of misconduct on the part of the republican nominee or if it is just something he said at a rally that reverberates or at a debate that reverberates for several days.
They're not caught up in that kind of news cycle right now so that can only benefit him, Poppy, just as these polls are moving in his direction. That is why you're hearing Donald Trump sound like somebody who is winning this race even though the polls show he still has some catching up to do in some key swing states.
Donald Trump earlier today was thanking Anthony Weiner because of these new e-mails that the FBI is looking at that are connected to the Anthony Weiner sexting case.
Donald Trump, who said all sorts of things about Anthony Weiner throughout the course of this campaign, was thanking him earlier today. Here's what he said to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have a feeling they've just found a lot of them, don't you think? I have a feeling.
(CROWD CHEERING)
TRUMP: Huma, they just found a lot of them.
(CROWD CHEERING)
We never thought we were going to say thank you to Anthony Weiner.
(CROWD CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And you can hear the cheers at that rally in Las Vegas, Poppy. that just goes to show you how jubilant these crowds have been ever since the news came out on Friday and it certainly has sort of changed the narrative upside down when it comes to the FBI.
You'll recall earlier this year, I mean, at almost every rally, Donald Trump would go after the FBI and question why the FBI, in their view, let Hillary Clinton off the hook. Now, they are coming to the FBI's defense, you know, when hearing the Clinton campaign go after the FBI. Go after the FBI director and ask why this is being brought up now.
You're seeing campaign manager Kellyanne Conway as with the other top Trump campaign officials come to the FBI's defense. Poppy, this goes to show you, until this race is over, things can get turned upside down and right side up over and over again as these days tick down, Poppy.
[17:05:00] HARLOW: It is not over till it's over. Jim, let me ask you about the strategy there from the Trump camp, and we'll have his spokesman, Jason Miller on with me in the next block. But just, you know, Colorado, he's down, right? It's Clinton, 45 percent; Trump, 37 percent, in the latest public polling in Colorado. Perhaps their internal polling says suddenly (ph) differently. But clearly, this is a strategy now, feeling more emboldened trying to arguably flip blue states?
ACOSTA: Yeah. And there is a little bit of gamesmanship there. No question about it. They want to look like they're putting Hillary Clinton back on her heels.
But keep in mind, even if Donald Trump wins all of the states that Mitt Romney won back in 2012, he's still short. he's still well short of the 270 electoral votes that he needs.
So he needs to flip blue states, and that's why you're seeing Donald trump here in Colorado. he is going to New Mexico later on this evening. Who would have thought Donald Trump would be campaigning in New Mexico and then off to Michigan, where they feel like there are a lot of those Donald Trump-style voters, people who have been caught in the wheels of, you know, this changing U.S. economy.
You know, people who perhaps lost jobs 10 years ago, were not able to get the kind of jobs that they had in a factory in years past. They think Michigan is chock-full of those kinds of voters and that's why, Poppy, it may not make a lot of sense for them to get out of these swing states if they desperately need to win. But they have to flip some states if they want to get to 270.
HARLOW: Yeah. I mean this will (ph) be tough. It hasn't gone red since '88. It's been (inaudible) even Mitt Romney, a son of the state, wasn't able to take it. We'll be watching. Jim, thank you very much for that.
A lot ahead this hour. Nine days out, and it is a crowded day on the campaign trail. Bill Clinton and Tim Kaine speaking right now. Stumping for Hillary Clinton. This, as we wait for Donald Trump. He is set to speak in Colorado within the hour. We'll take you there live. Also, how are both the campaigns reacting to this news about the e- mails found on Huma Abedin's computer? You will hear from both sides on this program. Stay with us. You're live in the CNN "NEWSROOM."
[17:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Nine days to go until you go to the polls unless maybe you've already voted, but the polls themselves are actually tightening. This as Donald Trump, stumps hard in blue and blue-leaning states. He'll hold a rally tonight in New Mexico after he speaks in Colorado today. He's there for a second day.
Take a look at this latest polling though in Colorado. It does show Clinton up eight points. The latest polls don't look great for Donald Trump in Michigan either, where he will head tomorrow. This, as he aggressively pushes the Clinton e-mail controversy as a potential game changer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This is bigger than Watergate. This is bigger than Watergate, in my opinion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: All right. Is it bigger? Joining us now, Trump Campaign Senior Communications Adviser, Jason Miller. Thank you for being here.
(CROSSTALK)
JASON MILLER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: Poppy, thanks for having me on. Appreciate it.
HARLOW: Let's just talk about the news. I mean, the fact that we've now learned from our Evan Perez that it looks like the FBI got on the news that they had many more, thousands more, e-mails that could be relevant or maybe not, we don't know, for weeks and then came out, sent a letter to Congress, 11 days before the election. Both of your camps have said we want all the details, we want the e-mails. What do you make of this latest revelation and how is your candidate going to play it?
MILLER: I think it's overall news that there are some potentially 650,000 e-mails on Anthony Weiner's computer ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: You know, that is in the "Wall Street Journal". We don't have that number confirmed ourselves. those are all the e-mails, not the Huma and Clinton ones, to be clear.
MILLER: I just read it on the "Wall Street Journal" before coming on board. This is a huge number. The articles said there could be upwards of thousands there from Huma Abedin on this.
But here is what this gets to. This is a continued pattern of drip, drip, drip, news of the Clintons and just more questionable activity behind the scenes we don't know.
You know, supposedly, Huma Abedin had handed everything over to Law Enforcement. She'd even signed the form when she left the State Department under oath, saying that she'd given overall confidential and classified information that everything work-related for the State Department have been given back.
How the heck did they not find this other computer until now? I don't know. I obviously don't work at the FBI. But the fact that that guy has this in early October, but this just raises everything back up again.
The $66 million for Clinton, Inc. that we found out a few days ago with the advanced (ph) operation, and it's this drip, drip, drip of these questionable things coming forward that really have to make people wonder what would Clinton in the White House(ph) even look like?
HARLOW: Let's talk more about the e-mails. And first of all, I want to play for you what your candidate, Donald Trump, said about them. He said, you know, they're akin to Watergate. Let's play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This is bigger than Watergate.
(CROWD CHEERING)
TRUMP: This is bigger than Watergate, in my opinion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: James Comey said in his letter, as I know you've read, to congress, we don't know how significant they are. and t hen Trump's running mate, Mike pence, this morning went on FOX Sunday morning with my boss and -- with Chris Wallace, I should say. And he said this. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WALLACE, "FOX NEWS SUNDAY" HOST: So shouldn't you and Mr. Trump be cautious in talking about how significant this is?
GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), U.S. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think we have been cautious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: He's saying "we're being cautious." Your candidate is saying, this is Watergate. Which is it? And if he thinks it is like Watergate, where is the evidence to back it up?
MILLER: Well, I think what they're saying is the same thing. Because, number one ...
(CROSSTALK) HARLOW: It's not the same thing.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: You know what, Poppy, it is.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Jason, it's not the same thing. It's not the same thing. You just heard it.
MILLER: Poppy, it's -- what we want to see is we want to see justice served, we want to see the investigation completed. it needs to be done very soon. They need to get through it. Obviously, when you find out there's upwards of 650,000 e-mails that they have to go through, this is -- again, this is mind boggling, that they didn't have this information before.
But look, you already have, in this investigation, five different people who have taken the Fifth Amendment. There's a lot of questionable activity.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: I just want to get to question, and my question is, your candidate says that this is -- he said -- this is a quote. "It is bigger than Watergate." What evidence does he have to back that up?
MILLER: Well, it is big. I mean, this is an entire -- this whole system is setting up an outside server where confidential and classified information is going through. Top-secret information. The rerouting of materials outside of the norm.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Is it bigger than Watergate? Watergate took a president down and all we know so far about this is that Comey thought it was extremely careless but not enough to bring charges.
MILLER: As we've seen, I believe when the entire investigation is completed and everything is brought together, people will see Mr. Trump as right. This is a lot bigger than any of us even realize right now.
HARLOW: All right. let's move on to the final nine days here. I really want to understand your strategy because we just talked about some of it. Colorado, New Mexico, Michigan. He's down seven in Michigan, down eight in Colorado.
Yes, he's doing better overall in the polling. He's going to struggle in Colorado with suburban women and Latinos; New Mexico, you've got a huge Latino population, Michigan hasn't gone for a republican since '88. Walk me through the thinking here.
[17:15:00] MILLER: Absolutely. There are two things I want to point out. Number one, is the great numbers we're seeing early with early voting and absentees.
In Florida, we're 100,000 votes ahead of the pace where the campaign was ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: But these states, what is the ...
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: I also want to point out in North Carolina, we're 35,000 votes ahead of the pace. In Iowa, over 17,000 votes ahead of the pace when you look at the difference of republicans turning out higher and democrats turning out lower. In Nevada, we're right about the same as we were four years ago.
But here's the thing that we saw just last week. With the news about the Obamacare premiums, which Mr. Trump has been talking about replacing Obamacare, effectively since the beginning of the campaign. He's been very adamant. there's a clear difference between the candidates on this issue. That came out. That was something where we saw in Arizona, 116 percent increase, Pennsylvania, 53 percent ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: But that hasn't have to do specifically with why you're ...
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: Yes ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: You're getting a lot more aggressive on states that lean blue.
MILLER: Because of what's happened this last week, things have been moving so fast and so quick. We're seeing a number of these states that are traditionally blue or purple, the numbers are closing quick.
So we see in New Mexico, our polling shows this race is a dead heat. In Michigan, we showed as a dead heat. Some of the polls that you put up earlier, a little further back, don't incorporate some of the most recent news. We're seeing fast movement that's why we have Mr. Trump in New Mexico today, that's why he'll be in Michigan tomorrow. We'll be in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin then on Tuesday. Things are moving quick and we're looking very good in those states.
Secretary Clinton, she's bumping up on the ceiling to 41 percent, 42 percent. She's ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: She's polling high - she's polling higher than you guys, but I want to move on to money because you got nine days to go. Mr. Trump has repeatedly said including to our Dana Bash, he would spend $100 million or more of his own money.
He wired the campaign $10 million on Friday, that still puts him about $30 million off of that $100 million mark. Will he put $100 million in? because as of October 20th, she had $62 million, he had $16 million. And that matters.
MILLER: Well, Mr. Trump did just put in another $10 million, so that brings his contribution up to a heck of a lot, so far. I'll leave it to Mr. Trump for exactly how much he puts into the campaign.
What I do know is that he has made a commitment that we will have the resources that we need to win this race, and that's why we're looking at expanding ad buys and adding more ads to the rotation. And we'll have what we need to win this race.
HARLOW: One of the struggles on why you guys have been behind on money is not because he is not rich, it is because he's had a hard time closing the deal with big money, traditional republican GOP donors. And the issue is, Donald Trump constantly says, I am the best deal maker on the planet, you know, the art of the deal. Why hasn't he has been able to close this deal and get those traditional, big money GOP donors more of them on board?
MILLER: I'd point to our successes where we've teamed up with the RNC to fully fund our victory programs and to make sure that we have money coming in.
Chairman Priebus has done a fantastic job working with him and the overall RNC in our campaign. We're going to have the money we need to win this race and we're going to have the money to expand.
So, as we start going to the New Mexicos and the Michigans and Pennsylvanias and Wisconsins and different blue states where Hillary Clinton is struggling. she's not hitting the numbers, there's not the enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton but there is for Donald Trump. and we're seeing a real movement here, Poppy, with tens of thousands of people usually showing up ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: We see them.
MILLER: I know, that's what I'm saying (ph) ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: we see that. But let me get to one group finally before we go. You guys really want to get more of this. You're not going to win African-American voters as a whole but you want to get more than you've had in polling. OK.
MILLER: We do.
HARLOW: Here's what Donald Trump said about Hillary Clinton being a racist and a bigot previously. Play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton is a bigot ...
(CROWD CHEERING)
TRUMP: ... who sees people of color ...
(CROWD CHEERING)
TRUMP: ... only as votes, not as human beings worthy of a better future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: He says he is the one who can give African-Americans struggling economically a better future. But if you go back to august 2011, in New Hampshire, here's what he said. According to the New Hampshire Union leader, talking about Bill and Hillary Clinton, Here's two people, Hillary and Bill Clinton, who've really devoted a lot to African-Americans. They did probably as much as anybody and he made them into racists.
Talking about President Obama, he then went on "Hannity" in September of 2011, he said, whether you like them or don't like them, they have done so much for African-Americans. What changed?
MILLER: Well, I think what we've seen with this administration, what we've seen with Secretary Clinton's leadership is no new ideas. We've seen too many communities that have been taken for granted. Mr. Trump has laid out his plan for an urban renewal ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: You're talking about ...
MILLER: ... an American urban renewal.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: ... the Obama administration. I mean, he was still complimentary of the Clintons specifically on this point, five years ago.
TRUMP: Number one, he wasn't a candidate then, but also, we've seen the -- the lack of ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Then (ph) he think differently?
[17:20:00] MILLER: No. But now we're contrasting on specific issues. And as we start talking about tax reform, as we start going into issues like school choice and how we make communities better, is it going to start talking about infrastructure development, Hillary Clinton has not been a leader on these issues and she has been a failure, in fact, I'd say, on these issues. Mr. Trump has put together a positive plan and, think about this, Poppy, how late in the cycle we are, that we still have a candidate, and Mr. Trump is going on saying, I want to be a president for all Americans. Not just some Americans in some states or in some communities, he wants to be a president for all Americans, and I think he's going to really surprise people on November 8th with how well he does, not just with the African-American community but even with Hispanic and Latino communities around the country. I think that will really be impressive.
HARLOW: We will watch the numbers. Jason, we're out of time. Thank you. Thanks for coming on ...
MILLER: Thanks, Poppy. Appreciate it.
HARLOW: Really appreciate it. Coming up next, you have just heard from the Trump side, you will hear from the Clinton campaign their reaction to the latest news. They join me next.
Also, two of Clinton's biggest supporters, Bill Clinton and Tim Kaine and are stumping for her right now in North Carolina and Michigan, respectively. Stay with us. You're live in the CNN "NEWSROOM".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: The Clinton campaign tonight pushing back hard against FBI director James Comey, arguing that he should not have notified Congress of the review of newly discovered e-mails tied potentially to Hillary Clinton's private server so close to the presidential election.
Joining me now to talk about all of this, the latest developments, Criminal Defense Attorney Abbe Lowell, a Hillary Clinton supporter. He also served as Chief Minority Counsel to Democrats in the U.S. House (ph) during the Bill Clinton impeachment proceedings. Thank you for being here.
[17:25:00] ATTORNEY ABBE LOWELL, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: It's great to be here. Thanks.
HARLOW: Let me get your reaction to the latest breaking news just in the last few hours, that according to our justice correspondent, Evan Perez and Pamela Brown, the FBI knew about these e-mails on Huma Abedin's computer weeks ago. And internally went back and forth, what do we do? Do we tell congress? Do we make a notification? What do we do? And then decided to do just that on Friday. What's your reaction to this new timeline?
LOWELL: The new timeline only confirms what we knew maybe even 24 hours ago, and what the FBI did and what the director did, is unprecedented, it's unprofessional, and it is unintelligible. And it basically defies all the policies that have been in effect for decades.
I mean, think of it this way, under longstanding Justice Department rules, Law Enforcement would not do what the head of the FBI did if we were talking about an election for dogcatcher or register of wills, and yet, he did it in the most important election in our country. and it really defies logic.
One other point, and this only has underscored what you just reported, there is actually no legitimate law enforcement purpose for what the director did. Zero. It doesn't advance the law enforcement ball an inch. And so that's why he's being subjected to so much criticism.
HARLOW: Look, both campaigns, the Clinton campaign and the Trump campaign, are calling on the FBI to release all the e-mails, to put all the information out there so that the voters can decide for themselves.
It's unlikely, according to our justice reporters that that is going to happen, we'll see if we get anything more. But the Clinton camp, Clinton's team, has been effusive in their praise of Director Comey for quite a while now. I mean, as recently as October 16th. Here's what her running mate, Tim Kaine said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA), U.S. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What I do know is this, that there was an extensive, as you know, investigation by the FBI under the direction of a wonderful and tough career public servant, Jim Comey.
Jim was in the U.S. Attorney's office in the Eastern District of Virginia when I was the mayor of Richmond and he is somebody with the highest standards of integrity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Someone with the highest standards of integrity, and then the Clinton campaign put out this ad. Here is part of it, just today, on Twitter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: FBI Director James Comey released to Congress an unbelievably vague letter that was light on facts and heavy on innuendo, and it only serves to give Republicans a new line of attack against Hillary Clinton.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: As a Clinton supporter, do you think this close to the election, they risk looking hypocritical and also making it look like this is Clinton versus the FBI? Does it worry you?
LOWELL: The latter doesn't and the former needs to be put in context. If you remember, there was two parts of what Director Comey did back in July, it was the decision that he was no there, there, in the investigation over Secretary Clinton's e-mails and I think when Governor Kaine says what he says about Director and the FBI in general, they're basically pointing out that a correct decision was made based on the evidence and the law. But back then, others, me included, were incredibly critical of that
the Director went beyond the decision to say that there was no crime or no proper charge, and then he opined on his personal opinion about whether it was a good thing or a bad thing. That's a dangerous thing, when people in Law Enforcement give us their personal opinions about conduct there there (ph) or particular reason to decide whether the law was being broken.
And so, I have been, and others have been completely consistent, and this is what comes from that. If Director Comey believed that he owed it to Congress or the American people, and I don't know why he does, to make a statement prior to the election because he made a promise in July, that only undercuts the promise he made in July plus his conduct in this last week.
And the other thing that's absolutely clear about this is that normally, it wouldn't be the FBI Director at all. I mean, I understand that Attorney General Lynch has deferred to the decisions of the FBI and the career prosecutors as it made sense. But it shouldn't be that the Justice Department disappears when it is their policies ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Do you ...
LOWELL: ... being violated ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: ... do you believe ...
LOWELL: ... by these kinds of announcements. it doesn't have it.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Do you believe at all ...
(CROSSTALK)
LOWELL: I'm sorry. Continue.
HARLOW: Let me jump in here on the point you're making. Do you believe at all that Attorney General Loretta Lynch felt or feels as though her hands are somewhat tied because former President Bill Clinton walked on to her plane for 30 minutes for a discussion on the Tarmac in Phoenix days before the FBI's decision came down?
(CROSSTALK)
LOWELL: That very well may be.
HARLOW: Yeah. And then after that ...
(CROSSTALK)
LOWELL: No, no, no ... HARLOW: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: may be. That may be.
(CROSSTALK)
[17:30:00] LOWELL: But then take it to the next step. Everyday, 365 days a year, decisions of the Justice Department on criminal cases are made by the Deputy Attorney General, the number two person.
She also is a former U.S. Attorney. These are the kinds of things that could have been done and performed by the Deputy Attorney General, that always is done by the Deputy Attorney General. So, it almost doesn't matter whether the Attorney General herself is or is not deferring. That's one thing.
But I have to underscore something that has not yet come out. I don't care if it is 100 e-mails or 1,000 e-mails or 10,000 e-mails on the new laptop or the new device. It doesn't matter.
Remember this, under the law, if Huma Abedin and the Secretary are conversing between themselves, they are allowed to converse, they are both in the same part of the government. And if it is classified or not classified, they have the authority to discuss things between themselves.
And if there is no physical removal of documents because it was electronic, the decision the FBI made back in July is the proper decision today, and that's what's so wrong about what the Director did. It is just full of suggestion and innuendo, it has us and everybody else speculating, and there's still no there there (ph).
HARLOW: But what they can't do is mishandle or put at risk to hackers, etc., classified information. That's what they can't do.
LOWELL: Actually, the law, under the classified information statutes is a little nuanced more than what you just said. Here is a provision that talks about the reckless or the high level of disregard, but not to put at risk hacking.
Heck, if the law said that you can't put at risk hacking, given what the Russians and others are doing, there would be a lot of people behind bars. The use and the withholding of classified information is a way more nuanced and there's never been a case that's been brought by the Justice Department when there wasn't the physical removal ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: So you're ...
LOWELL: ... of data ...
(CROSSTALK) HARLOW: All right, I got to wrap it up very quickly. You got 30 seconds. You're not concerned then, if indeed -- and we don't know -- Huma Abedin forwarded e-mails from Secretary Clinton that may have included classified information to her personal computer to then print out. Doesn't it concern you?
LOWELL: Well, there's so many little pieces there. So, she did it, it was personal computer and she printed it out. We don't know any of it, and isn't that the point?
Ten days before the election, we are speculating because of something the FBI Director did that defies 100 years of Justice Department precedent.
HARLOW: Abbe Lowell, I wish we had more time. Thank you for joining me.
We're going to talk a lot more with our panel about this after the break. Stay with us. s
[17:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Welcome back. The campaign trail rattled by major developments in the FBI's review of the e-mails belonging to Hillary Clinton's long-time aide, Huma Abedin.
Law Enforcement officials tell CNN that FBI agents found the new e- mails weeks ago but the bureau's director, James Comey, didn't disclose that discovery until Friday, 11 days before the presidential election.
While it is unclear when Comey knew about the e-mails himself, the timeline is raising a lot of questions as to why the information was withheld and then why it was suddenly shared.
Joining me now to debate Hillary Rosen, a CNN Political Commentator, democratic strategist and a Hillary Clinton supporter. Also with us, Betsy McCaughey, the former lieutenant governor of New York and a Donald Trump supporter. Thank you guys, very much for being here. We appreciate it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Poppy.
HARLOW: Hi, guys. Let me just jump in on this really quickly. Let's listen to what Donald Trump said yesterday in Arizona -- actually, in Florida. let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And I have to tell you, I respect the fact that Director Comey was able to come back after what he did.
(CROWD CHEERING)
TRUMP: I respect that very much.
Likewise, they have essentially corrupted the Director of the FBI, to the point at which stories are already saying that the great, and they are truly great, men and women who work for the FBI are embarrassed and ashamed of what he's done to one of our truly great institutions, the FBI itself.
HARLOW: So, Betsy, Donald Trump was just saying what you just heard there, the last part, two weeks ago. And then yesterday, he came out in Arizona with effusive phrase for the Director. Does he risk looking hypocritical, looking like he only likes the bureau and the Director when it works to his benefit?
BETSY MCCAUGHEY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Not at all. What has happened with the FBI and the Justice Department is the very definition of Corruption.
Long before the FBI released this report in July, the President of the United States went on television and said Hillary Clinton is innocent. That was corrupt.
Then President Bill Clinton went on Loretta Lynch's private plane for 30 minutes, just days before the ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Betsy, I don't ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: Wait a second, I'm explaining to you.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: No, Betsy. I don't ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: I'm explaining to you why ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: ... but I asked you a specific question and I don't want ...
MCCAUGHEY: Yes, and I'm answering it.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: ... to relitigate this in the court of public opinion. What I want to ask ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: I'm answering it, Poppy. Let me just finish.
HARLOW: ... is about your candidate who you are endorsing. I want ... (CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: Yes, and he is correct.
HARLOW: We did ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: He is correct that what happened in July was corrupt. It was the essence of corruption. And then just days after that FBI report was rendered, Mrs. Clinton is suggesting that Loretta Lynch will be Attorney General under her administration.
(CROSSTALK)
HILLARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: She didn't say that.
MCCAUGHEY: That is exactly corrupt. Now, fortunately ...
ROSEN: She did not say that.
MCCAUGHEY: ... James Comey is doing his job, and ...
ROSEN: That is not ...
MCCAUGHEY: ... is doing his job. And the Clinton administration is trying to make Comey the issue. It's Hillary Clinton who is the issue. She is the one ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: I want to get to Hillary Rosen ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: ... who set up an e-mail system ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Let me jump in here Betsy ...
MCCAUGHEY: ... in violation of federal law.
HARLOW: Betsy, let me jump in here and Hillary Rosen and I are going to get to you in a moment, but I want to correct one fact, and that is that -- you said that Attorney General Lynch was promised to be the next Attorney General under her ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: I didn't say "promise", she suggested it ...
ROSEN: That's not it.
MCCAUGHEY: She suggested it.
HARLOW: There is no reporting to back that up. Hillary Rosen, your thoughts.
ROSEN: I want to say, I don't know whether Betsy is actually saying the FBI is still corrupt or not corrupt at all. I subscribe to what your prior guest have said of the lawyer, Abbe Lowell, smart, you know, reasoned lawyer, who basically said, in July, we had Comey come out with a conclusion.
After investigations, after interviews and, in fact, even shared his interview documents with the congress, after all of this, they came to a specific investigative conclusion and a recommendation that they made to prosecutors, that Hillary Clinton was not to be subject to any criminal prosecution.
What he did on Friday, though was not a conclusion, was not really even anything that was called for in statute. What he did on Friday was kind of unleash a bunch of vague speculation, and threw, you know, a lit match in a kerosene tank ...
(CROSSTALK)
[17:40:00] MCCAUGHEY: This is absolutely untrue. absolutely untrue.
ROSEN: And the reason why those two things are different is because the FBI themselves, in the last 24 hours, have gone to pains to talk about how, well, maybe there really isn't anything there. Maybe there is. Maybe there isn't.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: That's complete garbage. There are 650,000 e-mails according to the "Wall Street Journal" on that machine, and it is very likely the State Department e-mails were in the hands of a sexual pervert who could be easily blackmailed. If ...
(CROSSTALK)
ROSEN: That is not true.
MCCAUGHEY: ... that is not the definition of carelessness, putting this nation at risk, I don't know what is.
ROSEN: You're totally speculating.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: I'm not speculating. Read the "Wall Street Journal" this afternoon.
(CROSSTALK)
ROSEN: That number is not the number that we - your viewers know, the 650,000 e-mails is not the number that CNN ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: It is up on the "Wall Street Journal" website now. (CROSSTALK)
ROSEN: I understand that. And it pertains to all of the e-mails on the device.
MCCAUGHEY: That's right.
ROSEN: Many of them which would have been Anthony Weiner's, not the e-mails in question.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: You know, you're so busy defending Mrs. Clinton. Why don't you take a look at the big picture.
Mrs. Clinton set up a private e-mail system in defiance of federal law. Section 769 of the Federal Records Act. She sent confidential information on it, putting the nation at risk. She destroyed thousands of e-mails and 13 devices, and you're telling me James Comey's behavior is the issue? (Inaudible)
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Who are you talking to, Betsy? Are you talking to me or Hillary Rosen?
MCCAUGHEY: I'm talking to both of you.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: I'm talking to both of you because James Comey's behavior should not be the issue. Everyone watching knows that when you leave a job, you don't destroy your computer and your e-mails, if you're an honest person.
HARLOW: Hillary Rosen, let me ask you this, we learned today that the FBI is trying to get a warrant to access these e-mails. Do you think in full transparency, Huma Abedin and the Clinton camp should just give it over to the agents without having to have a warrant? Is it better that they should say, here is -- here is everything. You know, go through it. You don't even need to get a warrant. Just to be fully transparent. If there is no concern there, why not do that?
ROSEN: Well, the FBI themselves said that these e-mails might already have been turned over. They don't know whether they're duplicates or not from the thousands and thousands of e-mails that Huma Abedin already had turned over and already did cooperate with the FBI on. So, let's be clear about that.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: We don't know about that.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: If Huma Abedin had turned over every device and every e-mail, we wouldn't be talking about this, frankly.
ROSEN: That's right. Well, the device is different, because this is apparently, you know, a shared device. But the issue of the e-mails are the FBI themselves said to reporters that these could have been duplicate e-mails. They don't know yet. So, I can't imagine that ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: They didn't ...
ROSEN: Stop it, Betsy. You're just ranting ...
(CROSSTALK)
ROSEN: You're just ranting today. What is going on with you? You're ranting ridiculously.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: Because it's ...
ROSEN: Let's be reasonable.
MCCAUGHEY: ... so disturbing to the American people to see ...
(CROSSTALK)
ROSEN: No.
MCCAUGHEY: ... That's being turned ...
(CROSSTALK)
ROSEN: What is disturbing ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: ... about James Comey when it's clearly Hillary Clinton who is ...
(CROSSTALK)
ROSEN: What is disturbing is an 11th hour ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: ... put our nation in danger.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Hillary Rosen ...
(CROSSTALK)
ROSEN: What is disturbing is an 11th hour, you know, interfering here, and giving people like Donald Trump and you fodder when there are no facts.
And until there is an investigation, and I have every confidence that Huma Abedin is going to cooperate as much as she can with these facts and with this investigation, as she has all along, until there are facts, the FBI should not be speculating and handing people ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: James Comey had to make this announcement. Because people ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: All right, I'm getting wrap at my ear. Betsy ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: ... people in July.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Betsy and Hillary, I've got to leave it there because I have more guests coming up this hour. I appreciate you both joining me. Thank you.
Coming up, Donald Trump slamming Evan McMullen, calling him a, "character who is running all over Utah." Is he getting under Trump's skin, the third-party candidate joins me live, next.
[17:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: There are a lot of obstacles between Donald Trump and 270 electoral votes. That's what he needs to win the presidency. But, the polls are getting a lot tighter, as you know.
Ironically, one of the obstacles, though could end up being the ruby- red state of Utah and its six electoral votes. it's suddenly a three- way battleground, thanks to independent candidate, Evan McMullin. On Friday, Trump went after the Utah native in a FOX News interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If the incredible people of Utah, they're incredible people, I know the people of Utah. If they go enough for this character that's running all over the state, and we lose the state of Utah, that's devastating. Because that means we're probably going to lose the Supreme Court of the United States for 60 years. By that time, it won't matter because at the end of 60 years we won't have a country left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Evan McMullin joins me now. Thank you for being here.
EVAN MCMULLIN, INDEPENDENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you for having me. HARLOW: Walk me through your goal in all this, because you're not on the ballot in all states, right? You're on in 11 states, you're registered in a ballot writing option in 30 plus (ph) more, but what's your ultimate goal when we all wake up on November 9th?
MCMULLIN: Yeah. We have ballot access in one way or another in 43 states. So, on election day, the vast majority of Americans will be able to cast a vote for me. But the goal is this, so we have a modest goal. It is a hard one, admittedly, but it's what we had available to us, which is to block Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump from reaching the majority in the electoral college. Now, that depends, as you point out ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: So that it goes to the House then? So that what -- you know, so that happens?
MCMULLIN: Well, if neither gets a majority, then the top three finishers in the electoral college on November 8th then would proceed to the House of Representatives ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Right.
MCMULLIN: ... where each state would get a vote, and we think we could compete very well there.
HARLOW: Why is that a more democratic option than what we have now? Why is that better than the electoral college?
MCMULLIN: I'm not saying, look, it's our system. It's just the way ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Do you think it is better?
[17:50:00] MCMULLIN: ... it is the way the -- it is the way the Constitution has set up our system. That is a fact. That is the way it is.
And, you know, look, I would be much more pleased if we had two better candidates from the republicans and the democrats. The reality is, we have two highly corrupt candidates from the two major parties and most Americans don't like either one of them. And we need better options.
And so, I hope that somebody else would get into this race and do what I'm doing, somebody perhaps who had run for office before, maybe a former presidential candidate. That didn't happen, but I love this country dearly and I believe we need to try to stop them both. And that's what we're doing.
HARLOW: Are you worried about a permanent split within your party? I mean, where the GOP goes from here, frankly, whether or not you win the White House, this has been divisive within your own party. Are you worried about a permanent split?
MCMULLIN: Both parties need to be disrupted by new ideas and new parties, in my view. We're building a new conservative movement that welcomes people of all races and religions. The republican party has failed to do that. That's partially why I'm doing what I'm doing. We may help ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: But the republican party -- wouldn't you -- I mean, wouldn't you agree is the one really much more in danger of being split given what we've seen in this election?
MCMULLIN: Both parties in the years to come will face serious challenges. I believe the republican party and the conservative movement is a little bit further down this road. and that's why you see the bigger break up and conflict that you see now.
The democrats will see that in the coming years as well. There are very serious reasons for that. That's what I see happening. But right now, the republican party is going to continue to shrink in size if it goes down the road of Trumpism, which is a road of populism and white nationalism.
And for somebody like me who believes that all men and women are created equal and that we all have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, I just can't go along with that. And the millions of people are supporting Mindy Finn, my running mate and I, they also are not going to be able to go along with that.
So either the republican party will reform after this election, which I think is highly unlikely, or we'll have to start something new. But we'll see.
HARLOW: Evan , thank you very much. We appreciate having you on.
MCMULLIN: Thank you. Appreciate it.
HARLOW: Coming up, we are going to take you to Colorado, well, a state certainly in play right now with its nine electoral votes and a crucial part of the road to 270 for both Donald trump and Hillary Clinton.
Donald Trump knows how important this state is that is why he was there yesterday and why he is there today, and why you will hear from him live from Colorado in just moments. Stay with us. You're live in the CNN "NEWSROOM".
[17:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: All right, this time, take a look at the newest episode of "Parts Unknown" as Anthony Bourdain breaks his own stereotypes about Houston, Texas. I guess a bit of a lesson in car culture while he's at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (RAP MUSIC PLAYING)
ANTHONY BOURDAIN, "PARTS UNKNOWN" HOST: L.A., they have low riders, but Houston has slab. It's own car culture with its own accompanying style, it's own chops and screws, hip hop style.
(RAP MUSIC PLAYING)
SLIM THUG, HOUSTON MUSICAL ARTIST: This pretty much like one of the most classic designs of a slab. It's the Cadillac. See, I got the insides customed with the stitching and (inaudible), you know, this is a complete slab. You know.
BOURDAIN: Full reclining, is the ...
THUG: Full reclining. It's a laying back thing.
BOURDAIN: Houston musical, Slim Thug, and his friends follow him and David called some people to bring their cars over to McGregor Park in the southern part of the city.
BOURDAIN: If you're going to do it, what do you have to have? What are the rules?
THUG: Candy paint.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got to have these types of rims. The elbows (inaudible).
THUG: Fifth wheel and grill is maybe like for slabs. That's what's making this complete, you know. And the music, you know how they have to pop trunk with the custom music, you got to have that ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(VOICE-OVER): Anthony Bourdain "Parts Unknown", is brought to you by the Venture card from CapitalOne. Earn unlimited double miles you can use on any airline, any time.
[18:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
