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The Invasion in Mosul; Ohio Numbers Favoring Trump; Actress Susan Sarandon Advocates for the Standing Rock Tribe; Chicago Cubs Win World Series. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 03, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:30:03] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: He supports Hillary Clinton. And Gary Bernstein is a former CIA officer and national security surrogate for Donald Trump. Welcome to both of you.

Thank you

GARY BERNSTEN, U.S. AIR FORCE VETERAN: Thank you.

COSTELLO: It's nice to have you here. So, Gary, I want to start with you. Iraqi troops with the help of U.S. special forces, they just entered Mosul. So is this really a disaster?

BERNSTEN: No. What I would like to say is this, is that, the problem that we have in the Trump campaign has with President Obama's national security policies is that under law a president is required to draft a national security strategy every year. This administration has done this only two out of eight times. So therefore you don't have a plan from which the national - from which the Pentagon can produce a national military strategy.

COSTELLO: OK, so, Gary, I want to focus just on Mosul and what Donald Trump said about it that it was a disaster and that the United States looks stupid. Has that proved true?

BERNSTEN: What he's saying is - yes I will focus on that, Carol. Carol, let me just say this. When we invaded Afghanistan in 2001, after 9/11, and I was the senior CIA officer on the ground for that, we didn't announce in advance how and what we were going to do. And Donald Trump has constantly complained about the fact that this administration seems to telegraph every single thing it's going to do.

COSTELLO: OK, so how has that muddied the waters in Mosul. Because I want to focus on - we just reported on what's happening now.

BERNSTEN: Well, how it muddies the waters is it allows the - it allows the enemy to prepare in advance and set - many, many set walls(ph) of IEDs. I worked an IED task force for a year in Afghanistan. You don't want to allow the enemy to know in advance that you're coming, especially in this new environment, in this world of IED warfare.

COSTELLO: OK.

BERNSTEN: That's really what it comes down to. COSTELLO: So, Naveed, was the advance warning about the invasion of Mosul, has it kept Iraqi forces at bay for longer than anticipated?

NAVEED JAMALI, NAVY INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: Absolutely not. This is what the Trump campaign is hanging on in terms of pushing their point. I don't know where it's going. Look, there's a very big difference between ISIS in Iraq and ISIS in Syria. These are very nuanced - and, frankly, Yemen for that matter - these are very nuanced differences. And these are differences that, frankly, Hillary Clinton understands and Donald Trump does not. You know, Iraq is important. It's a success simply because - not just because we're pushing ISIS out, but also we're doing so under the auspices of the Iraqis. This is an Iraqi operation. It is an Iraqi operation to unify that country. And when it is successful, Iraq will be, you know, a stable, secure, self- sufficient state. That is progress that we haven't seen since we toppled Saddam Hussein. That is a huge win. To argue against it, I don't know where it's coming from.

COSTELLO: Well, Gary, you heard Arwa talking to those women(--)

BERNSTEN: It's coming from experience.

COSTELLO: (--) who are fleeing Mosul, right? So there's some success there, right?

BERNSTEN: Of course. Look, we - first off, our thoughts and prayers are with U.S. forces that are on the ground assisting the Iraqis and of course we want to see ISIS removed from and defeated in Mosul. But the point that Mr. Trump has made and that the campaign has made is that this administration is foolish in its handling and its tactical employment of these practices. I'll say it again. We entered Afghanistan in 2001.

COSTELLO: So tell me specifically about how the operation in Mosul (--)

BERNSTEN: We didn't make a (--)

COSTELLO: Gary, tell me specifically about the operation in Mosul, about how ineffective it has been when Iraqi troops are entering the city now.

BERNSTEN: Well, how ineffective it has been and the price that it will be is that in this day and age when you allow an enemy to know that you are coming and the path of your entry and if you actually expose your avenues of approach, these people are going to set up IEDs, IED after IED after IED.

COSTELLO: You don't think they would anyway?

BERNSTEN: We've already lost several American citizens have died who were IED deploy(ph). Well, the point is they're not going to do that over a 50-mile stretch, but if they know exactly where you're coming, and if you telegraph every move that you're going to make, you're going to have increased losses. Of course you want to defeat ISIS. I've spent my life working and fighting against terrorist organizations and support Donald Trump in this fashion. But the matter is you don't tell the enemy what you're going to do. It's crazy.

COSTELLO: So, Naveed, is Gary right when he says, you know, if there wasn't this announcement that Iraqi troops were going to invade Mosul that ISIS wouldn't have been preparing and planting so many IEDs around the city which probably hindered the operation somewhat or at least slowed it down?

[10:34:40]

JAMALI: Absolutely not. I don't know where this - this is such a silly argument, frankly, Carol. I mean, this is a massive invasion. It's sort of like, all they have to do is look out the window to see the buildup. We're not telegraphing anything. And, you know, I'm tired of hearing about this. The reality is that - look, we just had two fatalities in Afghanistan which is something that neither candidate spoke about. And I would have loved to hear both Hillary Clinton's and Donald Trump's position on that. But putting that aside, look, when you get back to Mosul, this was a successful operation and it's done so with American air power and Americans on the ground in a support capacity. This is a model for future operations. I don't see how anyone can say that anything leading up to this was anything like a failure. This is a complete success. It's going to be textbook military operations. So I don't know where Gary is coming from, you know, we telegraphed this. It's, frankly, just silly.

BERNSTEN: It's coming from the battlefield. That's where I'm coming from.

COSTELLO: All right I have to leave it there.

BERNTSEN: I'm coming from the battlefield.

COSTELLO: Naveed Jamali.

BERNSTEN: Having done this myself.

COSTELLO: Gary Bernsten, I have to leave it there. Thanks so much. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

COSTELLO: One of the biggest prizes of all this election season, the battleground state of Ohio. It went for President Obama in 2008 and in 2012, but early voting data shows that right now republicans are voting in higher numbers than democrats. And Quinnipiac University poll has Trump up by 5 points over Hillary Clinton. CNN's Martin Savidge has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): If republican billionaire Donald Trump wins Ohio, it could be thanks to working class democrats.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are going to build the wall 100 percent and Mexico is going to pay for the wall.

SAVIDGE (voice over): His tough talk on illegal immigration, ISIS, and political correctness resonate in the suburbs.

DALE FELLOWS, LAKE COUNTY, OHIO GOP CHAIRMAN: So, we believe very strongly that Trump's going to be - going to win Lake County.

SAVIDGE (voice over): But Trump's latest Buckeye success has been winning over a group of once solidly democrat voters; in part by hammering Clinton on the subject of foreign trade.

TRUMP: America's running a nearly $800 billion annual trade deficit. In other words, our great negotiators we're losing in a trade deficit.

SAVIDGE (voice over): In 1990, Ohio had over a million manufacturing jobs. Today, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, that number is down to 680,000. Callers vent their frustration on local talk radio.

UNKNOWN MALE: We're sending a message to Washington we're not going to continue with this crap.

SAVIDGE (voice over): A recent CRC Ohio poll found Trump soundly beating Clinton on issues of the economy and foreign trade among older voters and white men. The numbers are almost crushing. But the Clinton campaign is firing back.

RICHARD TRUMKA, PRESIDENT AFL-CIO: She has a plan right now that will create 10 million jobs.

SAVIDGE (voice over): Sending supporters like the head of the AFL-CIO into union halls in factory towns, spreading the word Trump's no union man.

TRUMKA: This guy's the most anti-union, anti-worker candidate that the republican party has put up since before World War II.

SAVIDGE (voice over): But unions here aren't as powerful as they once were, all of which makes the turnout of another democrat dynamo even more crucial; African American voters, especially in Cleveland and Cuyahoga County.

REP. MARCIA FUDGE (R), OHIO: Oh, I'm concerned.

SAVIDGE (voice over): Clinton has to win the county big, some say by a margin of 200,000 votes to offset downstate republicans. But early voting numbers have some democrats worried.

FUDGE: You know, we're not that far off of 2012. And I just believe that by election day we'll be right where we need to be.

SAVIDGE (voice over): African American voters I talked to all support Clinton. STEVEN PITTS, CLINTON SUPPORTER: In this election, I'm going to go with someone that I feel is competent and someone who has a background in government.

SAVIDGE (voice over): And all say they have or will vote for her.

JULIAN ROGERS, CLINTON SUPORTER: I've heard that numbers are down as well, but I think we've got a strong team here in Cleveland in particular that will work in the next few - the next week to get people out to vote.

SAVIDGE: And, Carol, I know that sounds, you know, very basic, almost stupid simple, but the reality is the difference between the wins and losses in Ohio is going to depend on who shows up and who stays home on election day. There's very strong concern among Clinton supporters that perhaps the African American vote is not going to be strong enough. To that end, they're going to try to get out the vote again this week, using what's called Souls to the Polls. Historically, Black churches will, after their services, offer transportation to early voting sites. If you're not a member of the faithful, the rapper Jay-Z's got a free concert. He is a supporter of Hillary Clinton, and you can bet along with the music there'll be a message. Carol.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right, Martin Savidge reporting live from Cleveland, Ohio this morning. Election day 2016, we'll have all-day coverage right here on CNN. Still to come in THE NEWSROOM: Actress Sudan Sarandon joining the protest over construction of an oil pipeline. She says there's no time to wait. President Obama must take action now. My interview with her next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:45:00]

COSTELLO: Violent clashes continue between protestors and police on sacred ground in North Dakota. Members of the Standing Rock Sioux tribe and hundreds of environmental activists are trying to stop the construction of a gas and oil pipeline. They say the pipeline runs through land that's not only sacred, but the pipeline could potentially contaminate the tribe's drinking water. The pipeline's developer, Energy Transfer Partners, insist there is no danger and that the pipeline would decrease dependence on foreign oil and create thousands of jobs. Susan Sarandon, who is fighting against the project told me it's time President Obama put a stop to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN SARANDON, ACTRESS: They're water protectors, some of whom are native, some of whom are not, who were having a peaceful ceremony. And so to wait, as Obama wants to do, for two weeks to see how it plays out - it's already been playing out with people being arrested and strip searched and put in dog kennels overnight naked, putting numbers on their arms. Things that don't even seem like this could be America. And because no one is really, from the mainstream media, is doing stories on it, people don't know. And the Missouri river, which they're trying to protect - I mean, this was on their sacred land where this confrontation took place, so the police had no right even being there.

COSTELLO: President Obama said, "You know what, it's time to reassess." The oil company has agreed to do that. So why isn't that enough?

SARANDON: Because they're at the edge of the river. They've been drilling no matter what's been said or what injunctions have been there, they're now at the river. We found out with drones yesterday they are at the river. So it's not just a question of even stopping them here, they're ready to go under the river. There needs to be an environmental study and he has to call for that environmental study before they continue to go under the river.

[10:50:00]

COSTELLO: What would you say to those people in the United States that say America ought to be energy independent and this pipeline will help America achieve that? What would you say to them?

SARANDON: Well, I would say, you're absolutely right. We need to be independent, but the pipeline will not achieve that. There was just a huge explosion the other day in Alabama, just recently. There's explosions - it's not a question of if they leak, it's a question of when. And so we're poising - we need to change. We need to take those people along and start new industries and actually make a difference. The oil idea is gone and natural gas is so (--)

COSTELLO: These same people, Susan - these same people, Susan, would say, you know what, this pipeline will also create tens of thousands of jobs. It will pump hundreds of thousands of dollars into our economy. And isn't that worth it?

SARANDON: Well, not if you don't have water. It's not worth it if you're water's poisoned.

COSTELLO: The candidates running for president, at least the two in the forefront, right, they're not talking about this issue at all. Why do you think that is?

SARANDON: Because if you look at who supports their campaign and who's contributed to Hillary's campaign, it's every single one of these corporations and banks; everyone from Goldman-Sachs to the major banks. So that's one of the problems. You're not going to hear anything from her just naturally, and I doubt that's going to change.

COSTELLO: What about Donald Trump?

SARANDON: Well, I don't think he's concerned either.

COSTELLO: So, Jill Stein, she's the green candidate, you're supporting her because she's the green candidate? SARANDON: I wanted to vote for somebody who in some way is concerned about the things that concern me. And I - after my experience in the primary, it's very clear to me that the DNC - and also reading emails - that the DNC is gone. And we need a progressive party. And so if she can get 5 percent, the next time round that means that we could have a really viable third party.

COSTELLO: What do you mean the DNC is gone? What do you mean by that?

SARANDON: It's completely corrupt and in bed with - every super delegate is a lobbyist. And the way that the system is set up in terms of having super delegates, that you could win a state and not get the delegates, is crazy.

COSTELLO: Do you still hold admiration for Bernie Sanders since he is supporting Hillary Clinton now.

SARANDON: Absolutely. Look, Bernie has said, "You have to - don't ever listen to me if I tell you how to vote." What he did was show people that they counted. He brought them hope. He's supporting a lot of candidates. It's very important to go to vote for the down the ticket.

COSTELLO: Most Americans think this election is one of the worst ever because they have these two candidates that are unlikable. Do you feel the same way?

SARANDON: Yes. I think that whether they're unlikeable or not, they're untrustable. And I think we've been voting the lesser of two evils for too long and that's why it's really important. The good news, if you want some good news.

COSTELLO: I do.

SARANDON: Is that everybody's so frustrated that at least we're awake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We certainly are paying attention, no doubt about that. Back to what's happening in North Dakota. President Obama did say the Army Corp. of Engineers is trying to come up with a solution, but that could take time. Protestors want action now and say they will not leave until that pipeline is rerouted. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:00]

COSTELLO: The curse is broken. The Chicago Cubs are World Series champions, ending the longest drought in baseball history in a dramatic game seven over the Cleveland Indians. Even President Obama wants a piece of the action, tweeting this: "It happened. Cubs win World Series. That's change even this south-sider can believe in. Want to come to the White House before I leave?" Andy Scholes has more from Cleveland. Good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. What an incredible game we saw last night. One of the best World Series games in the history of the sport. The emotions the fans, both fan bases had to go through in this one; really enough for an entire lifetime. Picking up in the bottom of the eight, the Indians were down by two and Rajai Davis gets ahold of this one, and it sent the whole Progressive Field crowd into a frenzy. That's a two run home run that tied the game. Labron James was in the stands, and he was going nuts. Everyone was pumped up. The game would go to extra innings and after a short rain delay, the Cubs left fielder bends over, coming through in the clutch with an RBI double in the tenth inning. He would be your World Series MVP. And lifelong Cubs fan Bill Murray weeps as he watches his team win an absolute thriller 8-7 to end their 108-year World Series drought.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THEO EPSTEIN, CUBS PRESIDENT OF BASEBALL OPERATIONS: One hundred and eight years.

JAKE ARRIETA, CUBS PITCHER: One hundred and eight years doesn't mean anything anymore. It's the start of something new, a new chapter for the Chicago Cubs, for the entire city.

SCHOLES: What do you say about this team, the way you all came back from 3-1 to win this?

DEXTER FOWLER, CUBS CENTER FIELDER: We never quit. We always said that we never quit. It's never over 'til it's over. When it's over now we're on top.

KRIS BRYANT, CUBS THIRD BASEMAN: This is what you dreamed for as a kid. And I'm 24 years old and I'm the luckiest guy on the planet, man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Now congratulations for the Cubs coming in from all over the sports world. Their friends the Chicago Bears tweeted congratulations to them with #flytheW. And, Carol, I'll tell you what, we know Cubs fans are very superstitious and they thought the number 108 very meaningful for them. And I'll tell you what, there may have been a 108 champagne bottles in that locker room last night, maybe not that many. But it was quite the party.

COSTELLO: Oh my god, I'm sure there eyes were killing them. It looks like so much fun. Andy Scholes, thanks for sharing. We loved it.

Thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. "AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.