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Clinton Camp Mistakes; Pence Leads Transition; Trump Chief of Staff; Trump Tweets About Protests. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 11, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:13] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: You are watching CNN. (INAUDIBLE). My final day in our nation's capital. What a week it has been. But on this Friday, on this Veterans Day, I just wanted to begin this hour with this. You know, yes, we live in a divided nation and, yes, we have just witnessed one of the darkest presidential races of our time. And even though I know so many of your emotions are still so raw, no matter where you stand on the outcome, we're all Americans and we're grateful to the men and women who serve and who have sacrificed for us. So I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for all you do and for what everyone who came before you did. So, thank you.

Now to the news and this, the fallout from Donald Trump's victory and the tensions that surround it. We are watching now day number three of some of these anti-Trump demonstrations as the president-elect today holds his first meeting with his transition team behind closed doors. And the Democrats, they're not reflecting on Hillary Clinton's crushing defeat. They are also, though, (INAUDIBLE) deep soul searching about how exactly it happened and how they move forward.

So, let me bring in Jeff Zeleny. He's back here in Washington. He's our senior Washington correspondent. Sally Kohn is a CNN political commentator and columnist for "The Daily Beast." And Bill Burton is co-founder of Priorities USA super PAC. He served as the deputy press secretary during Obama's first term.

So, welcome to all of you. And, Jeff Zeleny, let me just turn to you because we have now heard bits and pieces from the Clinton camp on how the heck it happened, the loss. What have they acknowledged?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, what they're doing, and they're having phone calls, conference calls with top donors, other top supporters. In fact, one just wrapped up a short time ago. And I'm told by someone - a couple of people who were on that call that John Podesta, the campaign chairman, is still saying that the decision at the 11th hour by James Comey to sort of reinsert this FBI e-mail situation into the campaign, they believe contributed to the defeat. One of many factors, of course. He also says that the hostile media coverage that she received contributed to the defeat.

But talking to so many other Democrats, they believe that one thing is missing from this list, and that is Hillary Clinton herself and the campaign. So the campaign is trying to sort of slow down the finger pointing, but that is what is going to happen as the Democrats really fall into this new order here of being more decimated than they ever have been, at least in generations.

BALDWIN: I want Sally and Bill to weigh in on that, but first a big part looking ahead of sort of shaping the future of the party is, who leads the party as the next DNC chair? And just some of the names being tossed around, Howard Dean. He's led the party before. Would like to do it again.

You have former Maryland governor, and presidential candidate this past cycle, Martin O'Malley. He's also interested. New Hampshire Democratic Party chairman and DNC vice chair Ray Buckley is reportedly exploring the possibility. And you have Congressman Keith Ellison. Senator Bernie Sanders is one of the voices really pushing the congressman to give it a go.

Sally, to you on the names I just threw out, thoughts and also what really will you and will other Democrats be looking for in a leader and why is this pick so important?

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm - look, I'm a proud member of the Warren wing of the Democratic Party and I am a long-time fan of Congressman Keith Ellison. Also a friend. I think he is exactly what the party and, frankly, America needs at this moment in time. He has a rigorous commitment to the ordinary people, to their struggles, to their challenges, to their fears and aspirations and hopes.

And, by the way, it also would not be incidental that he is one of our country - one of two Muslims in Congress and would lead the DNC at a time when we can expect, if Donald Trump makes good on his threats, to see the Muslim community under sustained attack.

It's really important - I think we can talk about all the dissections of why this election happened, but there is no question that two forces came into factor. There is still a profound economic anxiety in this country felt in particular by working class and poor folks of all races. And at the same time - and that is --- that is - we need to do something about that. We need to have an economy that works for working people and not just for the very rich in big business. At the same time, the other issue is that Donald Trump and the Republicans have convinced, especially white working class and poor folks, to blame that crisis on immigrants and people of color and Muslims and that kind of divide is what happened.

BALDWIN: OK, hang on, before - before we jump in on President-Elect Trump, let's talk a little more about Hillary Clinton.

And, Bill, let's just reflect back on Jeff's point about, you know, if we're looking ahead, we have to look at that went so wrong. And you heard about this, you know, call from the Clinton camp talking about the James Comey's decision, the letter and also just the e-mails and the hostile media. Shouldn't there be more of an acknowledgment, to Jeff's point, about it was also just the candidate herself?

[14:05:26] BULL BURTON, FORMER DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA: You know, look, this is a time for real reflection for the whole broad party of Democrats. And I think that when you look at this election - and I've been talking to my friends on the Clinton campaign and Democrats who are depressed across the board, it's hard to say that Jim Comey didn't have some kind of impact on the election. If you look inside the data and you're following how things are going, among college-educated whites, there is a total depression of turnout and activity after that first letter came out. And the second letter, which was probably meant to undo the damage that he had done previously, actually had the opposite impact and just reminded people again that this was a story that they were tired of hearing about. So I think Jim Comey is clearly incontrovertibly one of the reasons that Hillary Clinton is not the president-elect right now.

But there are a lot of other reasons. And I think that as we pick a chair for our party, and as we look at what the road forward is, we've got to be reflective about the fact that this wasn't just outside forces. It also was, you know, we - we were - Hillary Clinton was running, trying to put together the Obama coalition of voters, and she was never going to do as well with those voters as President Obama did for a variety of reasons. But that meant we had to find other voters, white working class voters -

BALDWIN: But so many of the voters that she was hoping for that you could have called a Clinton coalition, they didn't show up either.

BURTON: No, that's right. Well, 10 million people didn't show up compared to where we were in 2008. But those white working class voters that felt like they weren't spoken to, they don't look at Washington in terms of left and right. Like, politics is different now. There's a different axis. It's the people versus the establishment. The populous versus the institutions. And the next chair of the DNC needs to be able to reflect that. And we need to be able to talk to a broader swath of people outside of the old way of looking at things, which is left versus right. It's people versus powerful interests now.

(CROSS TALK)

BALDWIN: But, and, Sally, let me get to you. And we're talking to Congresswoman Debbie Dingle in just a little bit and she - she has said, and she will, I think, say to me live on CNN, you know, I warned the Obama admiration. I warned the Hillary Clinton campaign about working class folks in my home state who feel frustrated. Even though the numbers and the economy news goes up, they don't feel it. And I'm not feeling the love. I mean Hillary Clinton didn't even go to, say, Wisconsin.

KOHN: Yes, I mean, look, again, I don't think - you know, there are a number of factors that led to this happening. And I think Bill's exactly right, profoundly this is about a realignment of a broad swath of the country, black and white and Latino, recognizing, rightfully, by the way, that our economy, our politics, are rigged for the elites.

Now, that being said, what's interesting in that dynamic is that you still ended up with two elite people running to be president. I mean, effectively, Hillary Clinton may be a candidate of the political establishment. Donald Trump is a candidate of the economic and business establishment. And so there are other factors at play here, including, I think, how Donald Trump mobilized racial resentment and divisions of the country and undoubtedly how the FBI put its thumb on the scale. Bear in mind, while they were investigating Hillary's e- mail, they were also investigating Donald Trump's campaign relationships with Russia. But when they reached conclusion on that, Comey didn't hold a press conference. He didn't send letters to Congress. He didn't make a big hay out of it. It just got kind of burry. And, meanwhile, they made story over and over again.

BALDWIN: Well, not to mention these other Trump U cases that are - that are, you know, happening in the future. Perhaps they'll reach some sort of conclusion before then, but that's also floating out there as well. I've actually got to go because I want to move on to some breaking news.

Sally and Bill and Jeff, thank you.

Breaking news just into us here at CNN. We're learning more now about Donald Trump's transition team and who will play these key roles in a Trump administration.

Let's go live to New York to Trump Tower to Phil Mattingly who is there.

Phil, what are you learning?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not just who's going to play the key roles going forward in a Trump administration, it's who's going to play the key roles on the transition team. Now, Chris Christie, Brooke, has been leading Trump's transition operation for months. He's been the direct contact for the Obama White House. He has basically been running the show.

Now, we have been told over the course of the last couple of weeks, Chris Christie has started to step back. Jess Sessions, the Alabama senator, has played a more robust role in the operation. Now this is news. A source tells us that Mike Pence, the vice president-elect, is now coming in to run the transition operation. Chris Christie will be bumped down to vice chairman. He will still be involved in the process, but Pence is taking the reins.

Now, sources - this isn't unusual. Dick Cheney had a similarly large role once the president-elect was actually named. But it's an interesting moment because of a couple reasons. First and foremost, Chris Christie has been an interesting voice throughout this process inside Donald Trump's orbit. But, most recently, people familiar with this saying that he's been urging the Trump operation, Trump's inner circle, to allow a number of those people who were never Trump or critical of Trump to be allowed into the administration, saying it was crucial, particularly on the national security and foreign policy side, that these people be included. They are some of the - had more expertise than many other people in the field. They needed to be open to that.

[14:10:26] Well, Chris Christie has now been moved, at least officially, further away from that inner circle. Mike Pence taking the reins on this front. It will be really interesting to watch, Brooke, because, obviously, we know there are a lot of positions that need to be filled, need to be filled fast. A lot of speculation about who will be filling those positions. And now Mike Pence will have kind of probably the biggest role in this whole process short of the president-elect, Donald Trump.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, so chess pieces moving around. Other key pieces about to be filled. We've been - we've been really focusing, Phil, on who will serve as President-Elect Trump's chief of staff, right? And so the latest reporting had been could it be the campaign chair, Steve Bannon, who's headed up Breitbart, or could it be RNC chair Reince Priebus. And from what I'm hearing now, sources are pointing to Reince Priebus, is that correct?

MATTINGLY: Yes, that's exactly right. That's what we're hearing now. And I think it's worth noting that this has been a bit of a roller coaster. Reince Priebus was kind of the initial favorite to get this position. And I can tell you, when you talk to Republicans around Washington, when they try and figure out the person that they want close to Donald Trump, Reince Priebus is really the first name that they've put forward just based on his work with the campaign and his outreach to the broader Republican establishment over the course of these six, seven, eight, nine rather crazy months if you will.

But, while Reince Priebus's name was being floated as the favorite, Steve Bannon, campaign chairman who came on and, frankly, Brooke, when he came on, things changed and changed for the better if you were a supporter of Donald Trump, started to also make a play for that position.

Now, as you noted, people are starting to say that things are moving back towards Reince Priebus's direction and here's a pretty good reason why. I'm told that when Donald Trump was in Washington, D.C., yesterday, it was made clear by both House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell that Reince Priebus is the individual they would be most comfortable with in that position. It is a very crucial position inside the White House. A very powerful position inside the White House.

The big question now, and I think this actually extends to all of the major positions that need to be filled, which way does Donald Trump want to go? There's been reporting, we've heard from people that Donald Trump was leaning towards Steve Bannon, feels most comfortable with Steve Bannon, with everybody outside, including some of Trump's inner circle leading towards Reince Priebus. Is that the direction that he's going to head? It sounds like yes at the moment. But, again, this is very fluid and it's really all up to the president-elect, Brooke.

BALDWIN: It is indeed. Phil Mattingly, thank you so much for the news there from Trump Tower.

I've got Gloria Borger, who has just been seated. Jeff Zeleny, I'm keeping you around as well, please. So it's fascinating this push/pull it sounds like between - not that

we can climb into President-Elect Trump's mind, but sort of that the inner circle, the gut who he knows really well, versus a choice of someone perhaps who's best for the party, Reince Priebus.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Reince Priebus is somebody who he obviously owes a lot to. I mean we all remember after the Indiana primary Reince Priebus tweeted and said "it's over, guys, Donald Trump is our presumptive nominee." So he has been with him and he has taken a lot of guff for it from within the Republican establishment.

But I think there's also a sense with Trump that Reince Priebus is so close to Paul Ryan, who's kind of been his nemesis this entire race. And the thing about Steve Bannon is, Bannon comes on, along with Kellyanne Conway, and Trump starts doing better. So I think he listens to Bannon and likes him, but the question is whether the people on Capitol Hill can work with Bannon. You know, Bannon has been somebody who's been affiliated and in charge of Breitbart -

BALDWIN: Right.

BORGER: Which has criticized Paul Ryan and a lot of the Republicans on Capitol Hill, so they don't like him very much.

ZELENY: I mean he's - he's slung more arrows at Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan than he has at Democrats.

BORGER: Right. Yes.

ZELENY: That would be incredibly controversial (ph).

BALDWIN: He's - didn't he write a book criticizing the Bushs? I mean this is - what, when we talk about alt-right, this is Breitbart, this is Steve Bannon.

We might this be a great move, knowing we have a Republican controlled House and Senate, and to Gloria's point the fact that Reince Priebus, he goes way back in Wisconsin with Speaker Ryan, how might that help the cogs turn along here?

ZELENY: Well, I think it would help in terms of the relationship between the White House and the House, but I'm not sure that Donald Trump's going to need that much help in that respect. I think the chief of staff position, as soon as we know that, we're going to know a lot about who Donald Trump is going to be as president. He is the most evolving sort of unformed figure I think that we have seen in a recent president. And many people in this town, many Republicans, hope he simply becomes, you know, an old-school Republican. I don't think that is likely to happen, but we'll see on the chief of staffing.

But Reince Priebus, he's not exactly going to be an emissary to all of The Hill either. You know, to Chuck Schumer and others because he's been the head of the opposition. So, you know, there are definitely people who also questioned, does Reince Priebus have the chops for this? The foreign policy chops. Other things. The chief of staff of the White House is the second most important job in this city, probably, most stressful, other things. Some Republicans wonder if he has the chops for it.

[14:15:22] BORGER: But you don't have to have foreign policy experience per say. I remember Bill Daley was chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel chief of staff, not a lot of foreign policy experience. You have to be able to talk to -

ZELENY: But he'd been in a cabinet before and other things and -

BORGER: Right, but you have to be able to talk to Capitol Hill.

ZELENY: Sure.

BORGER: Well, that's right, Bill Daley, you know, was commerce secretary.

ZELENY: Commerce secretary, yes.

BORGER: You have to be able to talk to Capitol Hill. But they also have Mike Pence, don't forget.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ZELENY: Right.

BORGER: And Pence came from Capitol Hill. He's an alum, OK.

BALDWIN: His leadership. Right. Right. Not to mention running a state.

BORGER: So - but he's an alum and he's a conservative Republican. So he can talk - he can talk to conservative Republicans. And I think Reince Priebus also understands the national Republican Party very well.

I think with Donald Trump, it always comes down to a question of loyalty. Complete loyalty. You know, the fact that Chris Christie is now no longer in charge of the - of the transition -

BALDWIN: You have more scoop on that.

BORGER: Well, yes, I mean everybody's sort of reporting all of this, but it -

BALDWIN: Tell me more.

BORGER: I think the point is that Christie was first on board, but I think there's a sense among some Trump people that when the going got tough, Christie got going. After the "Access Hollywood" videotape.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BORGER: And I think even though he prepared Trump for his debate right after that, that he wasn't there at the debate. And so I think there - it is kind of a loyalty test. Trump demands 100 percent loyalty. And if there is a crack, somewhere he's always going to question you. BALDWIN: You're out.

OK. Gloria and Jeff, thank you so much.

Coming up next, President-Elect Trump taking heat for a tweet condemning the protesters who are speaking out across him - against him across the country, I should say. Then later, pull the total 180 on Twitter, praised them. Hmm.

And, was Megyn Kelly poisoned before that first debate, including with Donald Trump. She has new revelations about this drama over her faceoff in this new book of hers. We have a sneak peek into that.

I'm Brooke Baldwin here in Washington. You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

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[14:21:24] BALDWIN: And we're back. We're in Washington, D.C. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me.

Let's get back to those protests and the demonstrations erupting across this country. Much of it is in the wake of this past week's historic election. Thousands of protesters poured into the streets across the U.S. overnight. Most of the rallies, we should add though, were peaceful. But in Portland, Oregon, tensions exploded.

(VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Police referred to this actually as a riot, deploying flash- bang grenades to break up some of these crowds. Across the country, police have arrested more than 200 people and more anti-Trump demonstrations are planned for tonight, night number three.

Trump, by the way, is now weighing in on Twitter. He tweets, quote, "just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters incited by the media are protesting. Very unfair." But then, this morning, an about face. The tweet reads this way, "love the fact that the small groups of protesters last night have passion for our great country. We will all come together and be proud."

Barry Bennett is with me. he is the former campaign manager for Dr. Ben Carson. He was also a Trump supporter. And Joshua Dubois is back with us, the former director of President Obama's Office of Faith Based Partnerships and a former spiritual advisor to the president.

So, gentlemen, welcome.

JOSHUA DUBOIS, FORMER SPIRITUAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT OBAMA: Great to be here.

BALDWIN: Congratulations to you, sir, on the big Trump win. So let me begin with you because you have that first tweet, right, where he, you know, mentions incited by the media and these protesters.

BARRY BENNETT, FORMER CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR DR. BEN CARSON: Right.

BALDWIN: And this 180.

BENNETT: Right.

BALDWIN: This is no longer candidate Trump, this is President-Elect Trump, Barry. The rules have changed.

BENNETT: Yes.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BENNETT: Yes. Well, but, I mean, you have to admire growth, right? That's what we want.

BALDWIN: I mean it must have been the quickest turnaround of some sort of cleanup on the Trump side on a Twitter we've ever seen.

BENNETT: But, I mean, I like the trend line.

BALDWIN: I appreciate the positive response, but can we go back to that initial tweet, if I may, from the president-elect. "Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters incited by the media are protesting." That's not OK for a president-elect two tweet that, don't you think?

BENNETT: Well, i mean, they were protesting. I don't know exactly what they're protesting. They don't like the Electoral College, I guess. You know, we learned about it in high school.

BALDWIN: Or the person who won.

BENNETT: But, you know, I don't have any problem with peaceful protests. Peaceful protests are good. (INAUDIBLE) -

BALDWIN: Why didn't he say that? Why didn't he say that off the bat?

DUBOIS: You know, there's this fine line between growth and schizophrenia, and that's sort of seems like what we're seeing. And we need him to sort of calm down and be presidential if he's now the president-elect.

To speak to what folks are protesting, this - and this is something that I think people are getting wrong, most folks are not out there in the streets because their preferred candidate lost. They're out there because they take Donald Trump at his word. When he said that he supports stop and frisk around the country, African-Americans took him at his word and now they're out in the streets because they're concerned about what that would mean for black families.

BENNETT: (INAUDIBLE).

DUBOIS: Latino communities out in the streets because - the Latino community is out in the streets because they're concerned about mass deportations and this big, beautiful wall. Women are out there because they're taking Donald Trump at his word about how he sees the standing of women in the world. So this is not a protest just because the candidate lost. It's a protest based on what Donald Trump has said his agenda is going to be. And if he wants to address the protests, he's going to have to speak to his agenda.

[14:25:00] BENNETT: You know, I see a bunch of millennials out there who, had they spent time calling people and knocking on doors, they would have been more effective.

I would like to cross last - that 200 people that got arrested with who actually voted?

BALDWIN: But don't you think for President-Elect Trump it was a missed moment? I mean I remember not even a week ago we had President Obama, he was doing a rally for Hillary Clinton and there was a Trump protester who disrupted the whole thing. And I thought it was - it was class how he said, listen, hey, that is his First Amendment right to speak up. Looks like he's a veteran. So, you know what, we're going to respect that. And that is something that the president-elect could have done.

DUBOIS: Yes.

BENNETT: Yes. But, I mean, he did do this morning, right?

BALDWIN: He did do this morning.

BENNETT: Yes. So I mean we - we can't -

DUBOIS: He did this morning, yes.

BENNETT: We should be encouraged by what he's done. We should be encouraged about the Obama meeting yesterday. I don't know if you were there, Joshua, but, I mean, those were good statements both on The Hill and in the White House.

DUBOIS: Very good statements.

BALDWIN: Yes.

DUBOIS: (INAUDIBLE).

BENNETT: And I mean the trend line is very, very good.

Now, this guy is a first-time candidate.

DUBOIS: Yes.

BENNETT: You know. He's never run for anything before.

BALDWIN: Right.

BENNETT: The transition to take over the White House, I mean, my wife worked for George W. Bush and was one of the liaisons to the Obama administration. It took months. You know, it was a big -

BALDWIN: It's a learning curve. BENNETT: Big deal. And so he's got a lot of learning to do in the next

ten weeks.

BALDWIN: Will he be tweeting about it along the way?

BENNETT: I hope - I hope he's too busy to tweet.

DUBOIS: But one thing that's important, though, is you can't foment hate and division around the country for 18 months and think you're going to solve that and think that you're going to solve that with a - with a positive speech and then a couple good meetings.

BENNETT: But which is more hate, what's going on in the streets -

DUBOIS: I mean this -

(CROSS TALK)

BALDWIN: Harry Reid is appalled by that. Harry Reid is appalled by that, the rush to normalize Trump.

DUBOIS: He has seeded this - he has seeded this division and now it is coming to fruition.

BENNETT: (INAUDIBLE) _-

DUBOIS: So he has got to speak to what he has done and his agenda.

BENNETT: (INAUDIBLE) never - there's never a justification for violence.

DUBOIS: And that's important for him to do.

BENNETT: Never.

DUBOIS: That's right, but he's the one that said, rough them up.

BENNETT: Burning someone in effigy or burning an American flag is not acceptable.

DUBOIS: Donald Trump said rough him up. In 2012, Donald Trump tweeted that we should have a revolution in the streets after President Obama won. This is what this man has said and done for 18 months. He can't just roll that back now and act like it didn't happen. So this is - this is the people -

BENNETT: That justifies people burning the American flag in the streets.

DUBOIS: No, absolutely not. That's never justified. But Donald Trump has set the agenda and it's an agenda of hatred and division.

BENNETT: Oh, come on.

DUBOIS: And he needs to speak to that and turn that around. I hope that he does. I do hope that he does. BENNETT: That is - you know, you've got to - you've got tone that down, too, though if you want to go - if we want to get along.

DUBOIS: Well, listen -

BENNETT: You can't call - I mean, he's been called a racist now for months and months and months, right? We've got to tone down our rhetoric or our country will continue to be as divided as we are now.

DUBOIS: Let Donald Trump, I think, as the president-elect, he should set the tone with toning down his rhetoric.

BENNETT: I think he did this morning.

DUBOIS: And speaking to the things that he has said about his agenda, what that agenda will be moving forward. When he does that, I think people will respond and hopefully we can come to a place where he is implementing policy that brings us together, rather than divides us.

BALDWIN: It looks like - yes.

BENNETT: Yes.

BALDWIN: Amen to both of you. It looked like a positive meeting in the Oval Office yesterday, calling President Obama a good man, realizing it could have happened, you know, the meeting could have been 15 minutes, ended up being 90. Hopefully that's a good sign. We have open minds.

Gentlemen -

BENNETT: Got to.

DUBOIS: Got to.

BALDWIN: Open minds.

Coming up next here, back to our breaking news as we're learning more about Trump's transition team and the shakeup within. New Jersey Governor Chris Christie now no longer leading that effort. We have more on that.

Also ahead, my next guest considered running for president as an anti- Trump independent. David French joins me to discuss the next chapter for the so-called never Trumpers.

We'll be right back.

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