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Trump Names Reince Priebus as Chief of Staff, Steve Bannon as Chief Strategist; House Speaker "Happy" With Choice of Priebus; Paul Ryan "Ready To Get To Work" With White House; "Parts Unknown" Airs Tonight at 9 PM. Aired 5-6 p.m ET
Aired November 13, 2016 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: (Voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: It is 5 o'clock here in New York. I'm Poppy Harlow. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM, and boy, do we have breaking news for you this hour.
Donald Trump officially naming Reince Priebus as his Chief of Staff, putting the republican national committee chairman in one of the most powerful positions in the White House, but that is not all.
Trump also announcing he has selected his campaign's CEO, Steve Bannon, as the Chief Strategist and his Senior Counselor in the White House. Trump writing in a statement, "I am thrilled to have my very successful team continue with me in leading our country. Steve and Reince are highly qualified leaders who worked well together on our campaign and led us to a historic victory. Now, I will have them both with me in the White House as we work to make America great again."
Let's dig into all of this breaking news, because perhaps the Bannon announcement is even more significant than the Chief of Staff announcement. We're going to get into exactly why. Dana Bash is with me, our CNN Chief Political Correspondent.
Dana Bash, I'm going to get to Reince Priebus in a moment, but let's just talk about Steve Bannon. This is so unconventional. This is someone who leads up until just a few months ago Breitbart news, seen by many as the leader of the media for the alt-right movement. What does this tell you and how the American people who see Bannon?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, you're right, Reince Priebus, that was sort of -- as we're getting that information, the fact that he is the Chief of Staff in the Trump administration, will be -- is a sigh of relief to a lot of republicans because he is somebody who's respected and well known.
Steve Bannon, frankly, among a lot of republicans, democrats and alike, is the opposite. He is somebody not only who has used, before he came to the Trump campaign, used Breitbart, which is a conservative publication, to go after republicans, even and especially more than democrats, fellow republicans. It also has been the source of a lot of controversy with regard to some anti-Semitic comments, some comments that have been viewed as in line with white supremacy and others along those lines.
It is -- frankly, he had represented a site, Breitbart, that is as out of the mainstream as you could possibly think of. Now, he argues that the people who are reading Breitbart are the ones who were not surprised that Trump won the presidency.
But if you kind of dig deep into some of the things that he has said and done, which is going to happen -- it happened a little bit when he became the CEO of Trump's campaign, but when you dig deep, it's going to make a lot of republicans extremely uncomfortable, the fact that he is going to have such a huge role inside the Trump administration.
HARLOW: And never mind that Reince Priebus is going to be working side by side with him. Dana, two questions. I mean, Bloomberg politics did this big, deep dive on Steve Bannon last year, before he was part of the Trump campaign. This is the headline -- "this is the most dangerous political operative in America." you remember this article.
BASH: I do.
HARLOW: And I wonder how the two men will work together. Is it sort of like one on one shoulder, one on the other? Who wins out? Do these guys get along?
BASH: They do. You know, they did work very closely together during the campaign, particularly during the last couple of months of the campaign when Steve Bannon not only became the CEO but became more and more prominent and influential behind the scenes with the Trump campaign and with Donald Trump himself.
Now, I was told by a source close to Reince Priebus that this is something that the two of them worked out based on their partnership in dealing with Donald Trump and his organization, meaning the campaign, during that time, and that they feel that they can each sort of manage different parts of the republican party, and frankly, different parts of Donald Trump himself.
The fact that Reince Priebus is in the Chief of Staff role, that he is a conduit to republican leaders, to republican establishment figures, to governors, to people who he has a relationship with just by virtue of the fact that he's been RNC chair, never mind the House Speaker, Paul Ryan, who he has a very close friendship with.
HARLOW: Right.
BASH: They grew up together in republican politics in Wisconsin. But given the fact that, you know, when we first heard the news first of Reince Priebus about an hour or so ago, I was reporting on the fact that this is going to make a lot of people breathe a sigh of relief.
But coupled with the Steve Bannon news, it's sort of relief, but then that's overtaken, I think, by a lot of people having heart palpitations about this.
[17:05:00] HARLOW: Yeah. Dana, stay with me. David Axelrod, to Dana's point, tweeting just a little bit about "choice of Reince as Chief of Staff over Bannon seems like a strong signal that Trump is taking a more conventional, conservative path." That just before the Bannon news broke. Let me bring in our White House Correspondent Jim Acosta on the phone. Jim what can you tell us?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, I think this is a pretty telling move by Donald Trump here. He is, almost like he did with his vice presidential choice, he's going with a selection here that is going to keep the republican establishment happy.
You know, we saw during the vice presidential search, a lot of people in the establishment pushing Mike Pence over Newt Gingrich and Chris Christie, saying this was the safer choice, this is the choice that's going to calm things down in Washington, calm things down inside the party.
And Donald Trump was faced with a similar dilemma here -- go with somebody like Reince Priebus, who is going to absolutely keep the establishment happy, absolutely keep people happy and the congressional leadership up on Capitol Hill, or go with the pugnacious Steve Bannon, who represents the alt-right, the conservative base, the part of the republican party that is very fired up about the prospect of a Donald Trump presidency.
Keep in mind, Steve Bannon is credited with persuading Donald Trump to make that trip to Mexico, which was sort of an in-your-face move. There was a lot of second guessing on the republican side as to whether that was a good move for Donald Trump. It ended up being a very good move for Donald Trump.
And so, you know, he has counsel that he trusts in his inner circle, not only Steve Bannon and Reince Priebus, but Kellyanne Conway, his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, his daughter, Ivanka Trump. And I think what you're seeing here is sort of that core team from the campaign making its way to the White House.
I think absolutely that Steve Bannon becomes sort of the Karl Rove or David Axelrod of this incoming administration and this is going to be the person that Donald Trump turns to for political advice, perhaps when he's thinking about taking on a more aggressive tone on a certain subject.
And Reince Priebus will be sort of the guy that tries to cool things down, tries to calm things down. You know, Poppy, he was credited in the last stretch of the campaign, along with Kellyanne Conway, in persuading Donald Trump, listen, you've got to get off Twitter. Listen, you've got to stay on script.
HARLOW: Right.
ACOSTA: We can't have you going off the handle at your rallies at the very end of this campaign, and you saw Donald Trump sort of toned things down and cooled things down.
And so, he is sort of going to have -- and forgive the analogy here -- sort of the good angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other shoulder. That's sort of what he set himself up with going into this administration.
But just as everyone has been saying about this press release, you know, when Steve Bannon is sort of given top billing over the White House Chief of Staff, I think it's pretty telling that Donald Trump continues to want to have a pugnacious, aggressive tone going into this new administration.
HARLOW: Jim Acosta, stay with me. Just some other reporting this week from our Gloria Borger about why Donald Trump likes and trusts Steve Bannon so much. Because one source telling Gloria he is "completely about winning," and also, one point that a source told our Gloria Borger that is often overlooked when it comes to Steve Bannon is that he is more pragmatic than you would think when trying to achieve a goal.
For instance, not a huge Paul Ryan fan but encouraged Donald Trump not to go after Paul Ryan when Paul Ryan wasn't exactly on Donald Trump's side.
Let's dig into a lot more of this. Jim and Dana, stay with me, because my panel is here and we want to talk more about who these figures are, since they will be such a big part of the White House. Our Senior Media Correspondent, Brian Stelter is with me and also Charles Blow.
First, to play for you for a moment, Trump's acceptance speech on the early morning hours, Wednesday, after he was elected president. Here's what he did.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT: A very special person who, believe me -- and you know, I'd read reports that I wasn't getting along with him --I never had a bad second with him. He an unbelievable star. He is -- that's right! How did you possibly guess?
So, let me tell you about Reince. And I've said this ...
(CROWD CHEERING)
TRUMP: ... I said, Reince -- and I know it, I know it. Look at all those people over there. I know it. Reince is a superstar. But I said, they can't call you a superstar, Reince, unless we win. But I'll tell you, Reince is really a star. And he is the hardest-working guy ...
(CROWD CLAPPING)
TRUMP: ... and in a certain way, I did this -- Reince, come up here. Where is Reince? Get over here, Reince. Boy, oh, boy, oh, boy. It's about time you did this, Reince. Huh? My God. Say a few words.
REINCE PRIEBUS, INCOMING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: No. TRUMP: No, come here. Say something.
[17:10:00] PRIEBUS: Ladies and gentlemen, the next President of the United States, Donald Trump!
(CROWD CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: All right, let's bring back in my panel. Charles Blow is a CNN Political Commentator and Op Ed Columnist for "The New York Times." Brian Stelter is with us, our Senior Media Correspondent and Host of "Reliable Sources," Ron Brownstein, CNN Senior Political Analyst and a Senior Editor for "The Atlantic," and Jack Kingston, a Senior Adviser to Donald Trump and a former congressman from the great state of Georgia. Thank you all for being here.
And Brian, let me begin with you, because I think it's very important to explain to our viewers what Steve Bannon represents in terms of Breitbart, which as of last week, he was still -- or this week, he was still, you know, going to go back to running. What he represents in terms of the alt-right movement.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: This is the normalization of extreme alt-right rhetoric, unless Americans don't let it become normalized. Breitbart, a website that thrives with white nationalist rhetoric, very, very incendiary kind of commentary. This is the type that he was running up until he joined the campaign, he said he was going to go back as of Wednesday after the campaign ended. Now, of course, that's a question mark.
Whether he completely separates with Breitbart or not, Breitbart will be the media wing of the Trump administration. But let's concentrate more on the importance of the White House role here.
HARLOW: Right.
STELTER: John Weaver, who ran John McCain's campaign in 2008, just said on Twitter "the racist, fascist, extreme right is represented now, footsteps from the Oval Office."
Now, Bannon would reject that. In the one conversation I was able to have with him during the campaign, he said this is not a white nationalist movement, this is a populist movement. But certainly, what many Americans hear this afternoon is that a white nationalist is steps from the Oval Office.
HARLOW: Charles Blow, your thoughts?
CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's not just up to him to say it's not a racist organization. I mean, there is Southern Poverty Law Center who tracks hate groups in their April hatewatch report actually spelled out what the alt-right is, and it is racist, and it is anti-immigrant, and it is anti-Muslim, and it is anti- Semitic. And that is coming to the White House, right? And this idea of normalization is a real threat right now for all of America, because what Trump is doing is mixing in kind of conventional conservatism in with the extreme racism of the alt-right. And not that it has been -- that it can be completely separate anyway, but now it is mixing all of it together to make it feel like it's normal, and that is a real threat to America and the democracy.
HARLOW: That's an interesting point to make, for the appearance that it is normal, to make America feel like it is normal. Ron Brownstein to you, you say -- and I should note that many of the people closest to Donald Trump, including Jared Kushner, his son-in-law, including his children, wanted to see Reince Priebus as Chief of Staff. They were pushing for this. They got this.
You know, I wonder how they feel about Steve Bannon being in this very high position as well. They wanted Reince Priebus over Steve Bannon to have their father's ear. Now, both of these men have their father's ear. You say this is not a normal balancing of government. Explain.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No. No. I mean, look, there's a tendency to think of this as something, say, like, a Reagan decision in 1980, where he brought in Jim Baker to make the trains run on time and Ed Niece as the conscience of the conservative movement, but those were two kind of professionals from within the mainstream of republican thinking at different ends.
As both Brian and Charles have said, Steve Bannon represents something very different. Reince Priebus is someone who can go out and work with republicans in congress on the parts of the Trump agenda that overlap with traditional republican thinking, cutting taxes, cutting regulation, repealing Obamacare.
Steve Bannon is something very, very different. And as both of them have said, this was a website that has existed on the outer fringe of American political discourse with kind of virulent anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, at times anti-Semitic articles and attacks, for that matter, on Paul Ryan.
And what Donald Trump is now doing by bringing this in is signaling I think to the Republican Party that there is going to be, you know, turbulent water ahead. I've said I thought that Donald Trump in some ways was an independent presidential candidate running under the republican banner. There's about half of his agenda, as we said, that overlaps the traditional republican ideas.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Do you agree with this pick?
BROWNSTEIN: Yeah. Yes. I think it perfectly manifests that, because I think Reince Priebus is there for the half that overlaps with what republicans want to do.
There's a whole other half in terms of, you know, accelerating deportation and limiting legal immigration and walking away from trade agreements and questioning NATO, that is very much at odds with what most republicans in congress believe. And now, you're going to have both of those viewpoints institutionally represented right at the heart of power in the White House.
HARLOW: A spokesperson for Speaker Paul Ryan just gave this statement from the House Speaker to our Jim Acosta. "The Speaker is very happy for his friend and ready to get to work."
Obviously, Reince Priebus was a big part of sort of mending relations near the end of the campaign after the "Access Hollywood" tape between Donald Trump and the republican party that stayed with him or on the edge, and he was instrumental in, you know, Paul Ryan sort of coming back to Donald Trump.
[17:15:00] Obviously, both Wisconsin republicans, Paul Ryan very happy about it. Jack Kingston, to you, as a Donald Trump adviser, Steve Bannon, as we've been discussing, runs Breitbart news, the Southern Poverty Law Center which tracks hate groups, wrote the following about Breitbart, the news site that Bannon runs in April.
"Over the past year, however, the outlet has undergone a noticeable shift towards embracing ideas on the extremist fringe of the conservative right. Racist ideas. Anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant ideas all key tenets making up an emerging racist ideology known as the alt- right." What do you make of this choice, Congressman?
JACK KINGSTON, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, number one, Southern Poverty Law Center is not an objective third party. It's a partisan group. It's a left-wing group, and they're entitled to that opinion, but that's all it is ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Did you not think ...
KINGSTON: ... it's an opinion.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: ... that Breitbart represents -- so let's ...
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: No, no, absolutely not. And let me say this, as a lifelong republican, I've served eight years in the state legislature, 22 years in Congress. The first time I'd ever heard the term alt-right was from democrats who were against Donald Trump when Steve Bannon came on board.
I think if you did a pop quiz to most republicans two months ago, they would have never heard the term. So, it's something that I think the democrats or the liberal groups have fabricated. Steve Bannon, if you look at the product that he produced ...
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: That's ludicrous.
KINGSTON: Since he came on board, he kept Donald Trump on message, he kept him away from Twitter a lot more, not perfectly, but a lot more than he had been before, and Steve Bannon did not bring all this division and gloom and doom that everybody said he would bring.
Remember, he came on board in early August, and most of the rhetoric that the democrats and the protesters find so offensive happened prior to Steve Bannon coming on board. This is a Harvard-educated MBA, a Navy officer, a father who had his daughter into West Point ...
HARLOW: A former Goldman Sachs banker.
KINGSTON: This is a very good guy.
HARLOW: But do you -- OK, this is a very good guy. Brian, you jumped in there. You said part of what the Congressman was saying was ludicrous. Why?
STELTER: Well, the alt-right is a term that has been around for years. I know you've heard it before, Jack. We'd all heard it more than two months ago. It's become popularized ...
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: Not to me ...
STELTER: ... when Bannon - well then Jack, with all due respect, I don't know where you've been for years because the alt-right is ...
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: Twenty-two in Congress. I've been involved in republican ...
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: ... something more significant over the recent years, and in August, when Bannon came on board the Trump campaign it became popularized and a lot of Americans who have not heard it before, did here for the first time.
I'm hearing from Trump aide right now who is saying we're being completely unfair to Donald Trump. I'm trying to keep an open mind here right now, but Steve Bannon is a name and is a figure who frightens many Americans. Jake Tapper, a colleague from CNN, just ...
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: I know -- I know the (inaudible) use terms like frighten and alt-right ...
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Let's go back to his ex-wife. Let's talk about his ex-wife, her experience. She alleges anti-Semitic language from him. And ... (CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: Oh, she does. An ex-wife would have something critical to say about her spouse. What a shock.
Here is a guy -- I mean, again -- and I want to say this, you asked me where I've been. I've been involved with conservative political activities for 30 years. Never heard the term alt-right. I don't think any of my friends had.
The left always has to label so that they can divide. I understand. It's label and divide all over again. But his product since he came on board in August was the best strategy and he ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: All right, guys.
KINGSTON: ... delivers no rhetoric that came out from that point.
HARLOW: Charles Blow, very quickly. I've got to get a break in.
BLOW: I simply can't do it. I can't simply watch him try to pretend that the alt-right does not exist. I can't watch you read a ...
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: Well, I know more about republicanism than you guys.
BLOW: I don't care what you know about you if you don't know about the alt-right, then that's a problem you're pretending that doesn't exist, you're pretending it is fabricated. It is a real problem. It is a part of the normalization ...
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: I'm not as paranoid as the others ...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: I'm sorry, unplug me now (ph). The idea that Paul Ryan would praise what Priebus but ignore the Bannon announcement, all of this is a (inaudible). It's in our face. It's trying to make us believe that what is happening is not happening right in front of our face. This is a problem. They are racists. this guy with a racist -- the fronter of a racist movement is moving into the White House. That is real.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Congressman, it's so true. It is also important, Congressman, to -- and we'll discuss this more, the context of all of this. This comes in a campaign where, frankly, when Donald Trump was pressed by our Jake Tapper time and time again about whether or not he denounced the grand wizard of the KKK's endorsement, he said I don't know who you're talking about. I don't know who that is. I don't know what that is. Later, he said of course I denounce. Also, by the way, this week in North Carolina, the KKK is planning a (inaudible) to celebrate ...
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: And it has been denounced.
HARLOW: It has been denounced by the North Carolina Republican Party, it has not been directly denounced by President-Elect Donald Trump yet. That is the context that we are talking about. And context is very important, sir, hold that thought. We are going to take a break. Ron Brownstein, Charles Blow, Congressman Kingston, Brian Stelter, we will be back, much more of this breaking news ahead. Don't go anywhere.
[17:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER (Voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.
HARLOW: If you're just joining us, we are following major breaking news this Sunday night. Donald Trump making two incredibly important White House appointments.
Today, naming RNC Chair Reince Priebus as his White House Chief of Staff and Steve Bannon, his campaign CEO and the executive chairman of Breitbart news, as his Chief Strategist and Senior Counsel. Our Dana Bash is back with me from Washington.
On top of all this, Dana, you also have new reporting on what Kellyanne Conway might do in terms of any role with Donald Trump as president. She's the one who, frankly, came in and turned around his campaign.
BASH: Yeah. She was obviously very much the public face of the Trump campaign in the last few months, in addition to her title being the campaign manager.
I am told that in the wee hours of election night, maybe the next morning, depending on how you look at it, that Donald Trump did have a conversation with her and made clear that he wants her to serve in his administration. I'm told that she has said that, first and foremost, it's a tough job for anybody, but she is also a mother of four small children, which makes it even tougher, and they don't live in D.C.
But that just professionally, she has been thinking that the better place for her is probably, not for sure but probably outside the administration. And the model for that or the template is David Plouffe, who was the campaign manager for Barack Obama. He opted not to go inside the White House. He stayed outside. He was more of a political person and helped the President that way.
[17:25:00] In this scenario, what Conway would do is try to help then President Trump pushing his policies, pushing his legislation, pushing his ideals and helping to do that by trying to get the outside conservative groups, which are so important, particularly when your republican president working with the republican-controlled congress, you've got to get everybody on board to do that.
The other thing is that -- I mean, it certainly pays OK to be in the government but nothing like the way that somebody who has been such a public face and even had an "SNL" skit done after her could probably cash in if she is not in the administration, Poppy.
HARLOW: And Dana, on top of that, let's talk a little bit more about Steve Bannon being named the chief strategist here. I mean, what Kellyanne Conway said about Steve Bannon just today on FOX, you know, he was the "general of the campaign, saying we couldn't have done this without him, or Reince Priebus, for that matter," she said. And you have some interesting reporting on, you know, how much Donald Trump trusts him.
BASH: A lot. A lot. And you know, somebody described it to me this way -- Donald Trump sees Steve Bannon as an equal. And that says a lot. If you're anybody, but especially if you're Donald Trump.
And so, you know, that is the way that he saw him, and frankly the way, the reason why he agreed to listen to Steve Bannon on some of the issues that really hurt Trump during the entire campaign, you know, mechanical ones like his Twitter account.
I'm told that Bannon is the guy who could actually take the phone away from him and say, you know what, this is not going to help, this is not going to help you if you tweet that a republican who said nasty things about you.
And it doesn't really sort of comfort, maybe, at first blush, given the time that he ran Breitbart, and that was a publication whose, for a long time's sole mission was to try to keep the republican establishment in check.
He talked at one point about -- and I'm looking for the quote here -- about the fact that he -- here's what he said in a radio interview in 2010 -- "what we need to do is bitch slap the republican party and get those guys heeding to, and if we have to, we'll take it over."
So, that's where he comes from. And the fact that he, in the past couple of months, tried to get Donald Trump to kind of swallow some of that sentiment in order to get elected president and consolidate the republican base around him, which he did incredibly successfully, is kind of telling.
HARLOW: Dana Bash, thank you for the reporting. Stay with me. We have obviously a lot more to get through right here. We're going to take a quick break. Much more of our breaking news straight ahead after this.
[17:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Welcome back to our breaking news coverage. Donald Trump making -- President-Elect Trump making two huge choices tonight, Reince Priebus, the head of the RNC, to be his chief of staff. Steve Bannon, the executive from Breitbart News and a man who helped run his campaign will be the chief strategist and senior adviser. Ron Brownstein is back with me as well as Charles Blow, Brian Stelter and former Congressman Jack Kingston.
I think telling is what was written in Bloomberg Politics about Bannon just a year ago before he was part of the campaign. In the year of the outsider, it is perhaps fitting that a figure like Bannon who nobody one saw coming would broil the national political debate.
Brian Stelter, that was a year ago, and now (inaudible) we are today. Let's take a look at Breitbart right now. This is the news site that he still ran as of -- you know, because he is going to back there this week. Here are two of the headlines, one, meltdown continues, wave of fake hate crimes sweeps social media."
The second big headline on Breitbart is "anti-democracy crybabies march by the thousands nationwide." Brian?
STELTER: This morning I described frankly, I have (inaudible) anti- media. And what I mean by anti-media is that it gives you an alternate reality to exist in. There have been, it seems, hundreds of examples of harassment and hate crimes, assaults, racist graffiti, kind of a wide array in these incidents ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Even in elementary schools, by the way.
STELTER: Yes. In schools, in the past five days, since Trump's election. A few of those have been documented to be hoaxes. A couple of those people have recanted, a couple. There have been hundreds of these incidents.
And if you read Breitbart, you're told, don't worry, those are hoaxes, liberals are making that up to trick you and make you look bad. So it's an example of how Breitbart provides this alternate reality, one that Donald Trump has sometimes bathed in and repeated.
I would describe Bannon as a political, dirty trickster, those are not always a bad thing. Sometimes you need to do that to get things done in Washington or elsewhere. But I'll give an example of that, the day before one of the presidential debates, the debate in Vegas. He was at the "National Enquirer" office. He was at the "National Enquirer" office, working on an interview with a Bill Clinton accuser.
So, that's an example of, again, anti-media. The "National Enquirer" being legitimized by the Trump campaign or by Bannon. He worked very closely with those kinds of news outlets or "news" outlets to get stories to bubble up from, I guess, Donald Trump would call the swamps into mainstream discourse.
HARLOW: Congressman, to you. You called Steve Bannon a good guy. There are some people who agree with you, there are many people who disagree with you and say that he is anti-Semitic. They say that he pushes, you know, white nationalists and tries to normalize them through Breitbart, through a media outlet like that. Would you want Steve Bannon to advise you?
KINGSTON: I would not listen to any advice on those topics from Steve Bannon, but I haven't seen any evidence that that's part of his agenda at all. And when you looked at what's happened to the Trump campaign from the time he came on board to victory night on Tuesday, everything that he has his fingerprints on has done very, very well.
And I want to say this as a republican. You know, we didn't really like Paul Begala or David Axlerod or James Carville because we felt like, you know, they were too tough for us.
So, I understand why the liberals are screaming and hollering, because we felt the same way about those guys. These are very tough operatives. They're bare-knuckle streetfighters, and that's why Donald Trump is now President-Elect Trump because somebody like this is very, very capable.
He's got a Wall Street background, he's got a business background. He actually has a connection to CNN, by the way, because he sold Castle Rock Films or Studios to Ted Turner. I'm not sure if that was when Ted Turner owned CNN or not.
[17:35:00] But you know, he's a media guy, he's a business guy, he's a political guy. And I want to say this in terms of him selling stories and pushing stories, that's what campaigns do. They talk to media that's friendly to them and try to get their side of the story published. Nothing unusual about that. And, you know, we've seen on WikiLeaks that the democrats had an ongoing operation with many major media outlets. And so, you know, fair game for all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not true.
HARLOW: What are you talking about?
KINGSTON: Not true? Are you kidding?
HARLOW: What are you talking about, Congressman?
KINGSTON: Let me tell you about WikiLeaks, pal.
STELTER: In the WikiLeaks e-mails, there are some examples of journalists acting like idiots, sometimes sending information to campaign aides when they shouldn't have. Those were isolated examples.
BLOW: Well then we're in agreement with that.
HARLOW: Ron Brownstein, to the argument. Ron?
KINGSTON: A Trump aide as we speak to get information. That's what reporters do. That's what was in WikiLeaks.
HARLOW: Ron, to the argument that the congressman just made, do you think it's analogous that Steve Bannon is analogous on the right to a David Axelrod on the left?
BROWNSTEIN: No. No. Not in terms of where he comes from. Look, I think the most important thing here, the one thing I think everybody can agree is that from this point forward, there should be no confusion or illusions within the republican party or the country more broadly about what they are getting with Donald Trump.
I think, you know, in the campaign there were a lot of republicans, quietly, Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan and kind of people in that circle who believed that they could kind of -- that Donald Trump would sign the legislation that they passed, that was the phrase you often heard, where they kind of agree -- where, again, he overlaps with conventional republicanism on cutting taxes, cutting regulations, repealing Obamacare, and beyond that, they could kind of steer him away from the elements of his agenda that were converging with the alt-right movement and taking the republican party in a more racially confrontational way.
And for an hour this afternoon, they all probably felt like, well, we were right, Donald Trump is going to be domesticated. Reince Priebus is the Chief of Staff. But when you see Steve Bannon in the White House, I think what you're getting is an unmistakable signal that the republican party has now signed on for this full program that includes not only the parts that they are comfortable with but the parts that could be historically racially divisive and risk branding the party as a party of white racial backlashers.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Charles - Charles Blow.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've now got the full Monty.
BLOW: You did not believe that. That's absurd.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: All right, guys, this comes as this announcement, Charles Blow, comes as thousands of people are in the streets of cities across America protesting this. Many of them saying to our reporters on the ground it is because of what they perceive to be racism directed at them during the campaign. That is also, of course, met by half of this country, millions of American people cheering this election and thrilled with the outcome.
My question, though, is Donald Trump is yet to, as president-elect, directly address the protesters except for what he's written on Twitter. Then he makes this announcement, which is sure to fan the flames of those protesters. Your take on the timing here.
BLOW: I mean, it's horrible, but it is consistent, right? So, the track we don't want to take is to -- the false equivalency that racism is ideological, that there is an equivalency between Bacala and Bannon. There is none. There are republicans who hate racism. This guy, however, is not one of those people. He himself said that Breitbart was now the home of the alt-right. It does not take a long time ...
KINGSTON: Not ...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: ... I'm sorry, you're not going to interrupt me. It does not take a long time ...
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: I'm sorry, (inaudible).
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: You're still not going to interrupt me even with the "I'm sorry".
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: (Inaudible)
BLOW: Don't say I'm sorry and then interrupt. It doesn't make it OK.
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: What does alt-right mean?
BLOW: OK, if you don't understand something, that is not my problem. Your deficiencies of understanding are not my problem.
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: I just wanted to know what alt-right means.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: Your deficiencies are fine (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: (Inaudible).
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: Your deficiencies are not my problem. They're you're problem.
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: I don't know what alt-right is.
BLOW: We cannot -- OK, keep saying that and try and interrupt and stop me from making this point. But the point still remains, racism is a problem. And if you're going to invite someone who has kind of hitched himself to that as a movement, that's a problem for all of us. And it does not take a long time with Google to look at what has happened on Breitbart since Bannon arrived at Breitbart. There are people who believe ...
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: Let me say this.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: ... that Andrew Breitbart hated racism and that changes under Bannon. That is the problem.
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: OK, let me say this. Number one, I respect David Axelrod and Paul Begala. In fact, I consider them ...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: There you go.
KINGSTON: ... in fact, I consider them friends. Same with James Carville. I don't know him but I respect him. What my point was and is, is that republicans feared and disliked them the same way and accused them of all kinds of things the way you are Steve Bannon. Unless that there is ...
(CROSSTALK)
[17:40:00] BLOW: Wrong. That's a lie.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: I'm going to call a lie a lie.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: This is a lie, is a lie, is a lie, is a lie.
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: No. No ...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOW: Racism is not ideological. You are not going to put ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: OK, guys, I have to break in. It is an important conversation that will continue. Congressman, Charles Blow ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Congressman, Charles Blow.
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: ... have denounced the protesters.
HARLOW: All right, Congressman, I've got to jump in here, I got to get a break in. You will both be back with me. Brian Stelter, Congressman Kingston, Charles Blow, Ron Brownstein, thank you very much.
Straight ahead for us here, he is the former Clinton Chief of Staff, and he says Priebus is a solid pick. Why? I will ask him live, next. Stay with me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Breaking news, two very key announcements from the President- Elect tonight. Two men that he has named to very senior positions in the Donald Trump White House, Chief of Staff Reince Priebus and Chief Strategist Steve Bannon.
On the phone with me now, former White House Chief of Staff under President Bill Clinton, Mack McLarty. Thank you for being with me.
MACK MCLARTY, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF (via telephone): Poppy, delighted to be with you this afternoon.
HARLOW: Let's get your take on both of these picks. You like the Reince Priebus pick. Why?
[17:45:00] MCLARTY: Well, I think Chairman Priebus has done a fine job as chairman of the Republican Party. He enjoys a fine reputation. I think he is a solid pick. He rode the roller coaster of the campaign, which was indeed a mercurial, fast-paced, campaign, to say the least, and seems to have established a good working relationship with Donald Trump.
That's all to his edit. He's also worked with Steve Bannon as well as Kellyanne Conway and others. He will send a positive signal, without question, to the republican members of the House and the Senate. He is particularly close to leader Ryan.
Having said that, Poppy, I did put a but, so to speak, in that description. While I have a good regard for Chairman Priebus, now Chief Priebus, I don't think this sends the best message in terms of forging a bipartisan consensus on the major issues of the day, and I think President Trump will need that to get things done.
And I do have a reservation and concern about that. We've had other chairmen, Robert Strauss, when he was chairman of the Democratic Party, Frank Farrincof when he was chairman of the Republican Party, who we have known to really achieve real substantial things in a bipartisan manner but not in the Chief of Staff position.
HARLOW: What do you make of his pick of Steve Bannon as his chief strategist? Yes, these two men worked well together on the campaign, but they really couldn't be more different in the way that they go about politics.
MCLARTY: Well some would say it's an odd couple, but that's not the first time you've had differing personalities and differing views, really, in the White House. There's been some references with some of your earlier commentators in that regard. And it's not unusual for the chief political person, Karl Rove, for example, among others, to be in the White House. So, Bannon played a key role in the campaign, he and others, including Reince Priebus and Kellyanne Conway, which I mentioned earlier, were clearly key figures in Donald Trump's campaign and his victory.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Does he concern you ...
(CROSSTALK)
MCLARTY: But I do think that his reputation is really a very, very pugnacious, aggressive (ph) person and personality in the Breitbart affiliation, which I'm not totally familiar, but some of the values seem to be very, very much at odds with my values. I think that's going to be an issue.
HARLOW: Does it concern you on that point, his ties to the alt-right movement?
MCLARTY: It does. I think from a political standpoint -- from a political standpoint, I think it does respond to some of the conservative support that Donald Trump received in the election. I think that's fine.
But when you move that needle further to the right, to the alt-right, and you have a racial inference there, that's not acceptable. Now, Steve Bannon seemed to be able to manage that somewhat in the campaign, but it's very different, I think, when you're in the White House, so I do have a concern there.
HARLOW: Your take on that, given the context, given the state of race relations in America right now.
MCLARTY: Well, I think that's need, and President-Elect Trump's kind of first comments certainly suggested that, is reassurance to the country. We've had a very, very bitter, hotly contested, close campaign, where really Secretary Clinton received more of the popular vote, but a very close campaign, very, very divisive.
And what the country I think is yearning for is for the country to come together, to find common ground where we can, President-Elect Trump said that in his opening statements. He's talked about that.
That's what I think the country and, indeed, that's the signals that need to be sent internationally. That's my point and that's my concern about the Bannon appointment.
But having said that, to be fair, every administration has had some type of political operative, either directly in the White House or close, as a close adviser outside, the Breitbart, and perhaps some of the things that's written about and said, that's the concern and reservation. HARLOW: Mack McLarty, I appreciate your input on this, given that you
held that role in the White House, Chief of Staff. Thank you very much.
MCLARTY: It was a privilege to serve. Thank you very much, Poppy. Enjoyed being with you.
HARLOW: We appreciate it. Let's bring back my panel, Ron Brownstein is back with me, Brian Stelter, Charles Blow and Congressman Jack Kingston.
You know what I just keep thinking is I don't think we've seen an interview, Brian Stelter, correct me if I'm wrong, with Steve Bannon in this entire campaign, right?.
[17:50:00] STELTER: That's true. Yeah. He's called into his own "Breitbart News Daily," a radio show and (inaudible) and I were able to talk to him when we got off a plane on the way to Vegas for a debate. We were able to talk to him for a few minutes. He is a charming guy, a very likable guy in person. He says he is focused on the movement. He was focused, in our conversation, less on Trump, more on the movement that Trump represents. I think that's a really important point.
He said, we in the media, Brian, you're got it all wrong. He said, you've got to go to these rallies and experience what the crowds are like. And that was his main message to us. But other than that conversation off the airplane, he really has hot spoken, has not given interviews, not part of his mystique. So to be fair to him, we don't really know him well because he has not spoken with the press.
HARLOW: So, let's listen to what Kellyanne Conway said about him just this morning on FOX News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Bannon has a background as a Naval officer, a Goldman Sachs managing partner, he's been successful in Hollywood as well. And who wouldn't know that about him because he's just so easy, if you don't know someone to always think of negative effect.
If you're part of the Trump campaign, that's what we have lived through for the last, however, many months. But the two of them I know will have very important roles in this administration and this inner circle, and Mr. Trump -- President-Elect Trump loved the sound of that -- President-Elect Trump will be my own man, and the padre of other supporters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Ron Brownstein, as far as the problems -- I mean, well, you know what? America's going to get to know Steve Bannon now.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. HARLOW: So, what Steve Bannon do they get to know? I guess is the question, the one that Kellyanne Conway just described or the one that my panel has been debating?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, look, they both could be true. they cold be kind of pragmatic political operator who starts with very extreme belief that has been outside the boundaries of mainstream political dialect.
I think it was money (ph) (inaudible) I believe Josh Green who wrote that story that you ...
HARLOW: Yeah.
BROWNSTEIN: ... you held up from earlier off the Trump campaign. And one thing that was clear, as Brian said, this was a (inaudible) was that Steve Bannon sees Donald Trump, it's not only part of a movement in the U.S. but part of a global movement that includes parties like Marine Le Pen of National Front in France and in England this kind of racial nationalism backlash against globalization rooted in kind of working class discontent all across the globe.
I think the one point here is when someone tells you who you are, you should listen and I think message for republicans here is that they are not going to get The message for republicans here is that they are not going to get just the Donald Trump that they were hoping for that they could domesticate. Bannon, for example, Breitbart has had a crusade against Paul Ryan for many years, attacking him relentlessly, supporting his primary opponent, accusing him of being kind of an ally of President Obama and the avatar of Open Borders.
In essence, Donald Trump has brought into the White House the parts of his agenda that are most at odds with conventional republican even as he kind of said a reassuring thing with Priebus. And the answer is, they are going to get both. And I think this day could not be clearer if there is going to be a lot of conflict
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: (Inaudible).
HARLOW: Congressman, as he brings in a conventional republican in Reince Priebus, Congressman, let me ask you this. How -- Reince Priebus is rally going to help Donald Trump with Paul Ryan and sort of the Paul Ryan wing of the party.
How does Steve Bannon complicate that?
KINGSTON: Steve Bannon is a strategic thinker and is a chess player, and I understand why the democrats are trying to discredit him and understand why they fear him. I just want to emphasize that since he came on board the campaign, the rhetoric tamped down and it was all about strategy. Kellyanne Conway became the ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: I would just note that it's not, Congressman. Not the democrats trying to discredit him. I mean, as a journalist, straight down the middle, like Brian Stelter who are ...
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: Sometimes ...
HARLOW: ... telling our viewers facts about him.
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: Some say forward suggests ...
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: ... ran case of campaign. Ron Weaver is out tonight.
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: Some people would suggest that the word journalist and democrats sometimes can be synonymous. I mean ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: That's really ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: ... you know what, Congressman? I take issue with that. That's really unfair.
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: ... Hillary Clinton, there might be a little bit of a (inaudible) ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: We're not -- we're not going to -- you know what, Congressman?
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Congressman? We're not going to do that on this show because I did not nor any of my colleagues contribute to any political campaign. My question to you was will Steve Bannon complicate the relationship ...
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: Absolutely not.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: ... with republicans on the Hill?
KINGSTON: No, absolutely not. Let me tell you this. Paul Ryan is a guy who wants to get an agenda passed, and that does include immigration reform, tax reform, repealing and replacing, Obamacare, looking at trade agreements.
There is some agreement on that but I think they all agree that they want good trade agreements. Conservative (inaudible) unleashing American energy, tax reforms, simplifying it and reducing it. Those are all great commonalities that Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan and Donald Trump have in common.
And now, that's going to be possible to get done and I think that what you're going to see is a real, real productive session. but I also want to tell you this ...
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: All right, Congressman ...
(CROSSTALK)
KINGSTON: I believe that the cabinet is going to be diverse and the critics are going to be very, very happy when they see who the team is.
[17:55:00] HARLOW: It's already a diverse team now around (ph) the President-Elect. Charles Blow, I did not get you in here. You will be with me after a very quick break. I'm sorry about that. Stay with us. Much more of our breaking news ahead right there.
Coming up on a brand new episode, though, tonight also of "PARTS UNKNOWN: ANTHONY BOURDAIN" gets a crash course in sushi and Japanese culture ha a rough turn. Here is a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sushi is the best meal. We can enjoy every single small piece of different fish. We can see the chef right there. He was slicing wasabi ... make (inaudible).
ANTHONY BOURDAIN, "PARTS UNKNOWN" HOST: Japanese tiger prawn, octopus and fluke sushi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Japanese cooking we care very much under (inaudible) which is hiding the skirt (ph).
BOURDAIN: (Inaudible) they just -- Striped (ph) Jack brushed with soy and sake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... woman, do not miss this. You didn't grab it right. Sip. You got to eat quickly, 30 seconds, 1 minute.
BOURDAIN: It's dying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Key is leaving somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... also the fish alive, moving, swimming, very fast. Done. Amazing. This momentum is right there. It's very important.
BOURDAIN: Anago, or sea eel , a hand roll, in fresh, crackling seaweed.
Wow.
[18:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
