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Trump Softens on Immigration, Obamacare & More; Backlash over Trump's Picks; PBS Journalist Gwen Ifill Dies at 61. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 14, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is next. For our viewers in North America, "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Wolf, thank you so much. Good to be with you on this Monday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

After months and months of hearing about candidate Donald Trump, Americans now getting their first in-depth glimpse at Trump, the president-elect. And many are saying, hang on a second, these two aren't necessarily matching up. Trump appears to be softening on certain key issues that were at the core of his message, his campaign, promises that so many supporters are expecting him to live up to, to deliver on. Here is some of what he shared on CBS's "60 Minutes."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLEY STAHL, "60 MINUTES": Are you really going to build a wall?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Yes.

STAHL: They're talking about a fence in the Republican Congress.

TRUMP: Sure. (INAUDIBLE).

STAHL: Would you accept a fence?

TRUMP: For certain areas I would.

STAHL: What about the pledge to deport millions and millions of undocumented immigrants?

TRUMP: What we are going to do is get the people that are criminal and have criminal records, gang members, drug dealers, we have a lot of these people, probably 2 million, it could even be 3 million, we are getting them out of our country.

STAHL: You called her "crooked Hillary," said you wanted to get her jailed. Your people in your audiences kept saying, "lock her up."

TRUMP: Yes.

STAHL: But do you want to put -

TRUMP: But she did - she did some bad things. I mean she did some bad things.

STAHL: I know, but a special prosecutor? Do you think you might -

TRUMP: I don't want to hurt them. I don't want to hurt them. They're - they're good people.

STAHL: When you replace it, are you going to make sure that people with preconditions are still covered?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Yes, because it happens to be one of the strongest assets.

STAHL: You're going to keep that?

TRUMP: Also with the children living were you their parents for an extended period, we're going to -

STAHL: You're going to keep that?

TRUMP: Very much try and keep that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, let's start there. CNN special correspondent Jamie Gangel joins me, Matt Viser, deputy Washington bureau chief for "The Boston Globe," CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger is here, and CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

There was a lot in that - in that "60" interview. So, Gloria, just first to you on what we played. Did you hear - and I'm choosing my words very carefully - a softening of - softening, walking back, you fill in - fill in the blank, you know, these key campaign promises?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: You mean the alternate universe Donald Trump, is that what you're talking about?

BALDWIN: Sure.

BORGER: The man who is different. No. Well, this is - on the campaign trail, Donald Trump was black and white. That was it. He was going to lock her up. He was going to repeal and replace Obamacare. He was going to build a wall with a big, beautiful door in it. Not a fence, a big, beautiful door in it.

BALDWIN: That's right. That's right.

BORGER: And what we are seeing - although I must say, on the campaign trail at - towards the end of the campaign, he softened - he softened a bit on pre-existing conditions and keeping your kids - your adult children on your health care plan and he did soften on the Muslim ban. But this is a different Donald Trump. And I think it opens a window onto what he might do. This is somebody who has now discovered that he likes Barack Obama, and that Hillary Clinton can be graceful when she called him.

And I think one thing I've been thinking about, and I'm wondering what the rest of our panel thinks, but is - if you were an ardent Donald Trump supporter who wanted to lock her up, would this matter to you, or did you, as a Donald Trump supporter, not really care about the specifics but just want him to make your life better and bring back jobs and raise your wage?

BALDWIN: Yes, I think that is the question.

BORGER: That's the question.

BALDWIN: And I'm reminded of that Peter Teal (ph) quote from "The Atlantic" in September, and I'm roughly paraphrasing, but he was saying, you media, you're taking him far too literally. The rest of the country, his supporters, figuratively. You know, don't -

BORGER: Right.

BALDWIN: Don't parse every single piece of - piece of language of his. But under this - under the column of alternate universe/our current reality, let me play more sound. This is when, you know, he was ask about perhaps overturning Roe v. Wade or same-sex marriage. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If it ever were overturned, it would go back to the states.

STAHL: But then -

TRUMP: So it would go back to the states and the states -

STAHL: Some women won't be able to get an abortion.

TRUMP: No, it will go back to the states.

STAHL: By state. No, some -

TRUMP: Yes. Well, they'll perhaps have to go to another -

STAHL: But do you want -

TRUMP: They'll have to go to another state.

STAHL: Do you support marriage equality?

TRUMP: It's irrelevant because it was already settled. It's law. It was settled in the Supreme Court. I mean it's done.

STAHL: So even if you appoint a judge that -

TRUMP: It's done. You have - these cases have gone to the Supreme Court. They've been settled. And I think - and I'm - I'm fine with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Jeffrey Toobin, again, on the softening, he never said - and I've played it back a few times. He never said, yes, I will overturn Roe v. Wade.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, but, you know, put me in the no-softening camp. I don't buy this whole softening hypothesis.

BALDWIN: Then what are you thinking?

TOOBIN: Well, I think he's going to appoint someone who's going to overturn Roe v. Wade and thus states can ban abortion. I don't think that is a softening at all.

[14:05:05] In terms of same-sex marriage -

BALDWIN: Yes.

TOOBIN: He's right, it is a settled issue in the Supreme Court. There's no way now for a state to challenge that ban. That ban is gone. Politically, there is not a big movement to reinstate the ban on same-sex marriage. But in terms of ending Obamacare, in terms of building a fence, in terms of getting millions of people out of the country, I don't see any softening at all. I mean rhetorically you could argue that he's sounding a little different but - and in terms of prosecution of Hillary Clinton, he's not ruling out a prosecution of Hillary Clinton. I mean Donald Trump - you know, one of the things we miss about politicians, I think, is that they believe in their campaign promises. And by and large they keep their campaign promises. And I see every sign that that is what Donald Trump is going to do.

BALDWIN: Matt Viser, what do you see? Do you see wiggle room? Do you see softening? I mean, you know, in one breath he says, you know, maybe, maybe not to Roe v. Wade, another he says, no, same-sex marriage, that's established law. How do you read this man?

MATT VISER, DEPUTY WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "THE BOSTON GLOBE": Well, I think for so long it's been hard to read Donald Trump because ideologically he doesn't seem to have a specific core that he believes one exact thing. I mean you see that in - over his lifetime, even in recent decades -

BALDWIN: He was a Democrat for years.

VISER: Yes, he was a Democrat. He donated to Democrats. He sort of does whatever is useful at that period of time. And so I think what you saw over the course of his campaign is sort of the - the first part of his deal, laying out his own terms. But all of that is almost always negotiable with Donald Trump. So you're sort of seeing, after a meeting with President Obama, Donald Trump emerges, you know, kind of walking more toward President Obama's position, you know. So I think that we're going to see over time kind of an ability to deal or an ability to try to come to some sort of a deal, which is frustrating probably to his supporter and probably to people who try to pin him down and try and figure out exactly what he thinks and how come that's different from what he campaigned on. BALDWIN: Well, so - so the big piece of the news is now we know some

names, right? We know Reince Priebus, the RNC chair, will, in fact, be the staff of chief. Steve Bannon will be Trump's chief strategist. He's getting - Trump is getting all kids of backlash over his pick of Bannon, who was his campaign chairman, who is, you know, closely tied to white nationalist and misogynistic and anti-Semitic beliefs. Like, when you looked at Breitbart, which he ran, some of the headlines included, would you rather your child had feminism or cancer, Jamie Gangel. So, on the Bannon pick, but also on Priebus, what are your establishment Republican sources telling you?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: No surprise, they are happy about Reince Priebus.

BALDWIN: OK.

GANGEL: They are not so happy about Steve Bannon. They have really hoped - I spoke to a half dozen people over the weekend. And they hoped that Bannon would go off, make money, do something else. What about Trump TV?

BALDWIN: Yes.

GANGEL: Anything else. They knew that he was going to stay as a voice in Trump's ear, but they'd hopped he wouldn't have such of it.

BALDWIN: In a simple capacity.

GANGEL: And also, when the announcement came out, he was listed first on the announcement, and they were equal partners.

TOOBIN: So where's the softening there? I mean - and also, Reince Priebus, this guy, his whole job, for the past five years, or however it's been, has been to attack Democrats.

BALDWIN: Right, to turn those states - to turn those states red.

TOOBIN: I mean so that's not exactly -

BALDWIN: I know. I know. I know.

GANGEL: Well -

BALDWIN: Gloria - Gloria, let me just pivot to you. What do these names - you have Reince Priebus on one side, but a Steve Bannon on the other. What does that tell you as far as how he might govern and the softening or not.

BORGER: Well, I want to know who reports to Trump directly, to Donald Trump directly. And I think both of these people will. And I think that could create a bit of a problem. There's only one chief of staff in the White House, and that's the person who, you know, is the first person to meet with the president in the morning, the last person to see him at night, controls the flow into the Oval Office, tells the president what's the top thing on his agenda. And I think Steve Bannon will be the person who is there to keep

Donald Trump honest with the people who got him elected. Those - you know, Bannon, I have been told by people working in the campaign, believe it or not, one person who worked with him in the campaign told me the other day that he is less Breitbart and more pragmatist. This is from somebody who worked with him in the campaign. And said - and said to me, that will surprise you, but he is all about winning. And that is what Donald Trump has always been about, which is winning.

BALDWIN: Well -

BORGER: And this is how they had their bond. So I - we're going to have to see how this works out. I think it's a little delicate. These folks have worked together before, but not inside the West Wing. And that's different.

BALDWIN: This is also part of why, Matt, I wanted to bring you on. I read your piece in "The Globe" over the weekend and you had this, you know, all kinds of fascinating color about how, you know, President- elect Trump - or really as a businessman makes - has made decision like this, hired the - tell me about the guy he hired after, what, he saw him breaking up a fight? I mean this is someone who acts very quickly, which could be very challenging because government can be like molasses.

[14:10:10] VISER: Yes. I mean in one instance he hired a security guard that he saw at the U.S. Open breaking up a fight. And that guy now runs a portion of Donald Trump's business, I mean, which illustrates another part of Trump and his loyalty. I mean he sticks with people for quite some time.

But the biggest thing that we learn I think from his business years, which is all we really have to guide us at this point, is, you know, his erratic behavior, his gut instinct. He would act very quickly. And he also was very hard working. I mean he was hard to out beat in terms of the hours that he would put in, rarely taking time off. So there's - there's some good qualities that come along with it and some bad qualities that do as well. But it's sort of what we have to guide us given that Trump has so little government experience - has no government experience, actually, (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: Says he's not taking vacations. Not taking vacations.

BORGER: No.

BALDWIN: He's taking $1 off that - that big president's salary. So there is that as well. We continue to fill in the pieces. For now, thank you all so much.

Coming up next, a warning from Trump directly to his supporters over these racist incidents happening across this country. We'll talk live with the bishop of this church where someone sprawled "Trump nation, whites only" on this church wall.

Also ahead, did you watch? "Saturday Night Live," David Chappelle's mighty return and his moving monologue, the olive branch he's offering to Trump, but under one condition. We're going to have a huge conversation on this.

Also ahead, if a candidate wins the popular vote, should he or she win the election? Trump thinks so, as Hillary's lead grows wider.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:41] BALDWIN: We're back and we have some breaking news. Sad. This is tough to report. A role model of my own personally, legendary PBS journalist Gwen Ifill, has died at the age of 61. Got a lot of voices who know her, who love her, and who have worked with her. But first, let me just go to our senior media correspondent, Brian Stelter.

Brian, what happened?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Gwen Ifill had been quietly battling cancer for many months, Brooke. She did not want to make public this information. When she went off the air this spring for a period of time, she kept it quiet. She didn't talk about her illness. But she had been in hospice care recently and that is where she passed away earlier today.

The head of WETA, the station in Washington, the PBS station that produces her newscast, "The NewsHour," calls her one of the leading lights of journalism. And, Brooke, as you and I both know, that is true indeed.

I just spoke with one of her best friends, Michelle Norris (ph), who, as we both are, are heartbroken by this news. Michelle remembers Gwen as a giant in the journalism industry. Someone who co-anchored "The NewsHour," also moderated two vice presidential debates over the years. An icon of the journalism world and someone who was going to be receiving a prestigious journalism prize, the John Chancellor Award at Columbia University just two days from today. She has passed away at the age of 61.

BALDWIN: She has broken gender barriers and race barriers in this wonderful career of journalism. I've got a number of voices I just want to bring up. I've got Jamie Gangel, Nia-Malika Henderson, Gloria Borger all here just to celebrate her life.

Nia, to you first. She was a role model, wasn't she?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: She was. I've loved Gwen. I once - I was a cub reporter at "The Baltimore Sun" and I had a little picture of Gwen Ifill on my computer that I printed out and pasted on my computer because I wanted to be Gwen Ifill. She had worked at "The Washington Post." She had done television. She had worked at "The New York Times." And she was someone I could look on TV and see myself. She was warm. She was smart. She was funny. You read her biography and you talk about seven - covering seven presidential campaigns. But she was always herself. She was always so relatable on air. So I got to spend a good bit of time with her. And I told her about this little picture that I had on my computer when I was a cub reporter at "The Baltimore -

BALDWIN: Oh, what did she say?

HENDERSON: She said, Nia, that's really sweet, but a little creepy. And that's how she was. I mean, she was, you know, incredibly funny and great and warm. And, my goodness, such a role model for me and for so many people.

She was loved by all sides, right? I mean she was one of those figures that crossed all sorts of barriers in terms of politics, in terms of - just in terms of who you can be in this business and such a leading light for so many people. And, my goodness, it's so sad. Every year she would have this party at her house. And everyone in Washington would pile into her house for New Year's, for New Year's Eve. That would be the place that everybody went to. And it was such a generous and warm place to be and really a symbol of who she was and how she was able to just bring everybody together and how everyone knew her through all generations of journalism.

BALDWIN: Knew her, wanted to know her.

Jamie Gangel, you overlapped with her in your careers. You shared an office space, you lucky, lucky woman with her.

GANGEL: Right.

BALDWIN: What was that like?

GANGEL: Well, first of all, like Nia, I - we all loved her. She was a great person. She was funny. As you heard from that story, saying it's a little creepy -

BALDWIN: A little creepy.

GANGEL: That is - that is classic Gwen.

BALDWIN: Yes.

GANGEL: She was so down to earth. But she was also, I think, a role model for every reporter in that she was fearless. She was smart. She was fearless. She would stand up to everyone. She knew what her core was. And that is -

BALDWIN: Everything.

GANGEL: Everything. And so we all just loved her, respected her. This is - this is a real loss for - for all of us.

BALDWIN: The fact that she kept her battle so private.

GANGEL: Right. So we - and she really did, because those of us who were friends knew it was going on. But when I e-mailed her, she really didn't want to go into any detail. She kept it very quiet. I was stunned by today's news. I - I did not know that it had gotten this far. So she really did want it kept very, very private. [14:20:22] BALDWIN: Gloria, of course, we - we know her and we love

her from being on PBS with Judy Woodruff. But before that, and Nia hit on this, all the - all the campaigns she's covered, the vice presidential debates she had the honor of moderating. I think she was a co-moderator for the Democratic primary this last go around. Talk to me just about how big of a deal that - that - that was for her and for women and for African-Americans in this career.

BORGER: First of all, I - I want to say this is hard for me because she's a really good friend.

BALDWIN: Oh.

BORGER: And I think we're all diminished without Gwen. And her preparation for those debates was stunning. And she did it with a sense of humor, as she did everything else. And as she battled her cancer, I have to tell you, she was amazing. She - you know, I had lunch with her and she wanted to keep it quiet. And she was just ready to get back to work and do what she loved doing. And I just - the world won't be the same for me without her.

BALDWIN: I love all - I love all of us ladies all, you know, talking about her and I wish - I had never met her personally. I remember, I called someone out on my show this past year and she tweeted at me, you go girl. And I wanted to frame the tweet. I mean, it's Gwen Ifill.

HENDERSON: Yes.

BORGER: And can I just say - can I say one thing?

BALDWIN: Yes.

BORGER: Gwen - Gwen was one of the first girls on the bus in the generation.

BALDWIN: Oh, yes.

BORGER: And, you know, we were girls on the bus together. And when it was largely male.

BALDWIN: Men.

BORGER: And there were - we had a lot of fun making fun of the guys on the bus, I will just tell you that. And for the next 20 years, it kind of never stopped.

HENDERSON: Yes.

BORGER: And that's the way she was.

HENDERSON: And - yes.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Nia.

HENDERSON: And, for me, the biggest deal for me in terms of my life was being on "Washington Week." BORGER: Right.

HENDERSON: I felt like I had made it once I was on "Washington Week." And this was sort of years into my career. I'd been on other television outlets. But to be at that table with the Gwen Ifill, someone who I had looked up to and to have her acknowledge me -

BORGER: Right.

HENDERSON: And give me a place at that table, that - I mean that was something for me.

BALDWIN: Tell me more stories. Nia, tell me another story.

HENDERSON: Gloria, do you - you want to go?

BORGER: Well, I - you know, so Gwen and I started out at the girls on "Washington Week" because, you know, there were a lot of these august male reporters, Rick Smith of "The New York Times" and Haynes Johnson of "The Washington Post" and Paul Duke was the moderator. And it was just at a time when they were sort of letting women reporters actually be on this show. And Gwen and I always had a lot of fun with it because when we would sit across the table from one person in particular, whose name I will not mention, he used to wink at us before the show started.

BALDWIN: Oh, please.

BORGER: And Gwen and I would look at each other and go, did you get that wink? And I'd say, yes, I got that wink. Did you get that wink? And so - and then, of course, it was so wonderful when Gwen became the host of "Washington Week." It was really an important moment for that show and to recognize Gwen as the person who would take it over and do such a wonderful job with it. I mean taking the show on the road, which she did during election years, and bringing herself into that - into that show.

HENDERSON: Yes.

BORGER: Which I think made for its longevity over these years.

BALDWIN: Let me - I want to keep -

HENDERSON: And - yes.

BALDWIN: Actually, Nia, if I may, I want to bring one more voice in, Michelle Norris is on the phone. Michelle is a close, close, close friend of Gwen's and a colleague.

BORGER: Yes.

BALDWIN: So, Michelle, thank you so much for calling in.

There's been laughter, there's been tears in the last couple of minutes. My sincerest condolences to you for losing such a near and dear friend. How are you doing? Michelle, are you with me? It's Brooke. We're live on CNN.

We lost her. Hopefully we'll get her back.

But listening to all these stories and, just, Jamie, jump in. Do you have another one?

GANGEL: So there - there are two things I just want to tell people about her. She came from New York. She went to Simmons College. She came from a large family that was very important to her. Her father was a minister, an AME minister.

[14:25:00] But Gwen had a very big career before she came to TV. I knew her in the late '90s when we shared an office at NBC, but she was a newspaper reporter. She worked at "The Baltimore Sun." She worked at "The New York Times." And she brought those reporting skills with her. To watch her prepare for an interview -

BALDWIN: So Gloria was saying like the debate prep.

GANGEL: Or to watch her when she did the debate with former Vice President Dick Cheney and John Edwards, she read everything. She did everything. She was just meticulous. And so she was a role model as a person and as a friend, but her reporting was just impeccable.

HENDERSON: Yes.

BALDWIN: Jamie and Nia and Gloria, just thank you all so much. Gwen Ifill, we honor you. We thank you. Gwen Ifill has passed away at the age of 61.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)