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Senator Harry Reid Blasts Trump; McCain Rips Trump Over Putin; Trump Transition Turmoil?. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 15, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:35]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go, hour two. You're watching CNN. Thank you so much for being with me.

Right this very moment, Donald Trump is meeting with his future vice president, as drama is mounting inside Trump's transition team. A source described this internal confusion and jockeying for White House Cabinet picks as a -- quote -- "knife fight." Another source told CNN this is like "The Game of Thrones."

Can vice president-elect Mike Pence now at Trump Tower -- here he is walking in this morning -- bring some order to this process? Pence officially leads the transition team. That quickly happened on Friday.

It is a team, we're also learning, that's having second thoughts about Rudy Giuliani filling one of the top positions in the Cabinet as secretary of state. Giuliani, who's really stuck with Trump through some of his most serious challenges this campaign cycle, made it crystal clear he would like the job. This is what he told "The Wall Street Journal."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI (R), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK: John would be a very good choice.

QUESTION: Is there anybody better?

GIULIANI: Maybe me. I don't know.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go to Phil Mattingly, who has the details about this possible concern that they have hit through Giuliani vetting. What's the potential roadblock, Phil?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, it's you look at past business dealings. And this is someone you deal with any time you're looking at a potential Cabinet pick. It is, what have they done in their business career that could raise red flags as you try and get through that always difficult confirmation process? When it comes to Rudy Giuliani, it really goes to two past jobs, both the current work that he has done for his law firm and also his jobs in the past firm.

The past firm being that most I think raising the red flags right now inside the transition team is Rudy Giuliani's work with the country of Qatar, his security contracts with that country, past contracts and what those might mean in potential conflicts of interest.

You also have work with the Venezuelan government on some level as well. But one of the interesting elements here, Brooke, is, as these names keep going forward, you start seeing potential concerns be raised as well and there's a really good reason for this.

If you have a Cabinet pick, that pick is going to be picked over, if you, before they go to Capitol Hill and go through the confirmation process. You don't want to leave them open to getting shot down on some level, particularly in the wake of an election as nasty as this one was.

That's why they're looking into this right now. I'm still told that he is the leading contender, but I'm also told, as with any potential Cabinet pick, Brooke, be very cautious because no decision is final until the president-elect says it is.

BALDWIN: OK, Phil, thank you so much.

Let's have a bigger conversation about what is going on behind those closed doors over at Trump Tower.

I have got Gloria Borger joining me, our CNN chief political analyst. CNN political commentator Lanhee Chen is back. He used to serve as a public policy director with Mitt Romney. And Peter Emerson is with us as well, a writer for The Huffington Post who has been involved in two presidential transitions and has been involved in every Democratic presidential campaign since 1972.

Great to see all of you all.

Gloria, let me just begin with you. You heard Phil on his reporting. I'm sure you have some intel. Take me behind the closed doors over at Trump Tower on Fifth Avenue. What the heck is going on?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I'm not sure we know definitively.

I know Donald Trump trusts his vice president-elect Mike Pence and we know Mike Pence has a list. He's bringing in people he considers potential choices for Cabinet posts. And I think they will go over it.

I think there are lots of things that matter to Donald Trump. First among them is loyalty. And one of the reasons you're seeing Rudy Giuliani's name being tossed around for such a high-level job, whether he gets it or not, and Jeff Sessions for A.G. or even State, and lots of other names, are because they have been loyal to Donald Trump from day one.

The most loyal people I think will have a shot at getting the jobs they want, provided they are qualified, provided that they can be confirmed and provided that they can pass a vet. And those are all big ifs, but I think on Donald Trump's personal list will be the people who were there for him.

BALDWIN: OK.

Peter, you have been involved in Carter and then Obama transition. When you hear some of the words describing the conversations and the confusion within the transition team, like knife fight or buffoonery, is this just par for the course or is this a little worse than normal?

[15:05:05]

PETER EMERSON, THE HUFFINGTON POST: No, I think there's no normal normal here any longer.

As I wrote about months ago, we here in the Kardashian age. This is the first president in the Kardashian age. This is a reality show. If the Trump people wanted it to be the no-drama Obama transition, then Trump would make it happen. But they don't.

So, we're seeing it played out in 24-hour time cycles that obviously could be different if they want it to be, but they don't.

BALDWIN: You're saying they're choosing to have these bumps in the road?

EMERSON: They're choosing to not have Trump lay down the law. In previous transitions, it's been top-heavy. That is to say, either the president or his designated adviser have said no leakage to the press, we will do everything internally.

In this case, because it's a reality TV show to a large extent, that's not the case. So, the fact that it's a knife fight or "Game of Thrones" makes perfect sense to me.

BALDWIN: Well, the fact that we know, Lanhee, that the roadblock being on potential appointment is secretary of state with Rudy Giuliani because of his previous business dealings. We know he wants the job. We know he is a former federal prosecutor. He was the mayor of New York, really rose to the national spotlight in the wake of 9/11.

What foreign policy chops does he have?

LANHEE CHEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, well, I think he could probably make the case that after during his time after the mayorship of New York City, he's had some private sector experience that would be able to be leveraged on foreign policy decisions.

I think the broader a question now is over these next several days, are we going to see the toll that the divisive campaign took on the transition? Usually, you have a lot of the vetting, you have a lot of that stuff happen during the last several weeks and months of the campaign.

But because of the way the campaign went, does that put them behind? I don't think we are really going to know until we get out here for a few more weeks and this transition goes on.

BORGER: Brooke, one more thing. There's no list of sort of usual suspects to be dragged out because a lot of them, particularly people in Congress who have a certain degree of authority on foreign policy, say, John McCain or Lindsey Graham, for example, were never -- Lindsey Graham was a never-Trumper and John McCain unendorsed him.

BALDWIN: The list narrowed.

BORGER: Right. So you don't have a large pool of people that you would normally have that could fill these slots.

BALDWIN: Well, here's a voice now is jumping in on all of this is former President George W. Bush. This is what he just told a group in Dallas. Here you go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I understand anger. And some people might have been angry when I was president.

(LAUGHTER)

BUSH: But anger shouldn't drive policy. What needs to drive policy is what's best for the people who are angry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Gloria, what do you make of that?

BORGER: I think what he's saying is you have to listen to the voters. And he's saying what drives policy is trying to make those angry voters feel less angry about their country and more a part of it.

And it's interesting coming from him, because I think he is an adept politician and he's looking at where the votes were for Donald Trump, and he is reading that like everyone else is, which is these are people who not only felt disenfranchised, but they felt the economy had left them and their families behind and that those are the people you have to make sure feel like they're a part of this country again.

BALDWIN: But another piece of this, Peter, is that once Bush 43 left the White House, he went away. He's really not been in the public spotlight.

And I'm wondering. It's been fascinating listening to President Obama talk about president-elect Trump these last couple of days. What about Obama? Do you think he will kind of go away out of the spotlight? EMERSON: I think to some degree that he will, but I know there's

still some movement, at least some pressure on him, to stay engaged.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: How engaged?

EMERSON: Well, I think he's going to have to make that decision, ultimately, but I think he will go away for several month, despite the fact that he's apparently going live in Washington until his daughter graduates from high school.

BALDWIN: Right. Right.

Lanhee, big picture. I know you have given some thought to the first 100 days of Trumps in the White House. What are three realistic items on an agenda that he could do, he could accomplish, perhaps partially bipartisan, to really make a splash?

CHEN: Yes, I think, look, he definitely, Brooke, could work with Democrats on tax reform, certainly on corporate tax reform. That's been talked about. The U.S. has the highest statutory corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. That could make a difference.

[15:10:00]

You could see him moving potentially forward on some health care reforms, obviously pressure from the base to do repeal and replace of Obamacare.

But on the replace part, is there some way to work with Democrats? And then potentially the final thing would be infrastructure. Everyone agrees we have crumbling infrastructure, relatively bad roads and bridges, horrible airports. If you have ever flown in and out of La Guardia, you know that. Certainly that's an opportunity to work together as well. So on those three areas, definitely opportunity for bipartisan support.

BALDWIN: How does he pay for it, Lanhee?

CHEN: Well, that's the million dollar question.

I think obviously we have got to get some economic growth. And I think that would be the answer you hear from the Trump team. And hopefully that's the kind of policy they will focus on as we get into this 100-day period.

BALDWIN: OK.

Lanhee and Peter and Gloria, thank you all so, so much.

Coming up next, team Trump inquiring about the possibility of whether his grown children could receive top-secret security clearances, even though they will be running the family business. Why would they want that? We will talk live with a former Secret Service agent. Also ahead, is President Obama being a tad too soft, a tad too

positive in his outlook on this Trump win? And what about Hillary Clinton? When you talk to critics, mostly Democrats, they would tell you yes. We will discuss that.

And he has been called a racist, misogynist, white nationalist and now he is going to the West Wing. Moments from now, the most powerful Democrat in the Senate will take to the floor and blast Trump over his new adviser.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:15:15]

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

As we have been reporting, Rudy Giuliani's past business ties may hinder his chances of becoming the next secretary of state. This is what they're hitting in the vetting process. But what about his attitude and often his controversial style, his words?

I want you to listen how the former New York mayor described demonstrators protesting Donald Trump's election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIULIANI: He told people to stop doing what they're doing. He has no more control over them than President Obama or Hillary Clinton have over the goons and thugs that are in my city that are destroying property, that are taking over streets and that are yelling and screaming at Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With me now, Symone Sanders, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist. She served as the national press secretary for the Bernie Sanders campaign. And Alice Stewart is with us, CNN political commentator and Republican strategist. She's the former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz.

Great to see both of you.

Alice, goons and thugs. Can you defend Giuliani?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that language is not necessary when we're talking about the protesters as a whole. He's clearly referring specifically to those that have been destroying property, vandalizing property and being more violent, but as a whole, look, here's we know about these protesters.

BALDWIN: What if it's not as a whole? Is that language OK, period?

STEWART: I don't think using that type of language with someone who is exercising their right to free speech is the right way to go about it. Clearly, understandably, they're frustrated their candidate of choice

won the popular vote, but didn't win the election, and they're frustrated.

And I support, as Donald Trump has supported, their right to exercise their free speech. But, at the end of the day, look, we understand that these protesters are put out there, they're paid by those on the left to organize and come out here and speak. Donald Trump has...

BALDWIN: I'm not sure they're paid. Where are you going with that?

STEWART: Well, the point is, these are professional protesters that are out there pushing a message of anti-Trump. Here's the thing.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Hang on, hang on.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I want to hear Symone, because I know Mr. Trump was saying this the other night, that they're professional. But I'm not entirely sure they are.

Go ahead, Symone.

SYMONE SANDERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think Alice knows, just as well as you and I do, that these are not professional protesters, that this is real unrest in the streets.

And that talking point that is being passed around between Mr. Trump and his folks is dangerous. Look, violence is never acceptable under any circumstances. But these protesters are not being paid.

And my question to folks is, has there ever been an acceptable form of protest? People were in fact walking down the streets of New York City in Rudy Giuliani's city peacefully protesting, and that still wasn't enough for him.

So the Trump people need to learn that this -- people are feeling some kind of unrest and we have to reckon with folks' feeling, we have to reckon with the rhetoric. And these protests are going to continue until people feel like they have been heard and their needs met.

STEWART: I think one thing that is important to keep in mind, this is not the first time an electorate has been dissatisfied with the outcome of an election and not happy with who is the president of the United States.

But, look, so many people, including the experts, were so wrong about the polls, they were wrong about the voters, they were wrong about the outcome of this election. What makes they -- think they're so right about how Donald Trump is going to lead?

I say we take the cues from Hillary Clinton. Let's give him -- have an open mind, give him the opportunity to lead, and then we can take it from there.

SANDERS: I will have an open mind when Donald Trump gives black people an open mind, Latino, Muslims, Native American folks, people with disabilities.

All we have to go off of is what Mr. Trump has said. And what he said and the rhetoric that he stoked across this country is very divisive. So I think people are well within their rights to be concerned.

And the last thing I want to note, Brooke, is that this is not normal. There's nothing normal about this election. And we should not normalize this.

BALDWIN: But on Hillary Clinton and her loss, I'm just curious, as just two women here, what do you make of this Clinton campaign staffer, Jess McIntosh? She said recently when she was asked why women voters did not go out more for Hillary Clinton, and she said it was internalized misogyny. She it's a real thing.

She said: "We, as a society, react poorly to women seeking positions with power. We feel uncomfortable with that. And then we seek to justify that uncomfortable feeling."

Symone, what do you think she was trying to get at there? And do you agree?

SANDERS: I think I do agree to some degree with that.

Look, we know that, a lot of times, instead of leadership quality, folks call women bossy and have negative at tributes to them, to us seeking...

[15:20:01]

BALDWIN: But what about women not being ready for a woman?

(CROSSTALK)

SANDERS: I think there are some. We have to look around the country.

I would say black women were definitely ready for a woman president. They voted for Hillary Clinton in 94 percent. So I really think we have to talk to some of these voters.

I would agree there are probably a lot of women out there that were not ready. If you look at the evangelical community, women that -- people that subscribe to the notion that believe women can't preach in churches or women should not hold positions of power, where the man is supposed to be the head of the household, those are real ideologies and real things that people subscribe to.

And that can definitely carry over to their political beliefs.

BALDWIN: Alice, what do you think. You know some of these communities. Is that fair? I mean, it's true not all women came out for Hillary. STEWART: Certainly.

But look at this. She became the nominee of her party, and so you have to give her credit for that. And I think it did not have -- the women that didn't vote for her, I don't believe whatsoever, it had to do with her being a woman.

I think ultimately the biggest downfall for her campaign, whether they want to admit it or not -- they like to blame James Comey -- the biggest downfall in my belief is her decision to have a personal server from the very beginning. That made her give her the impression amongst voters that she didn't have to play by the rules, didn't have to follow the law and gave her the impression she was better than the rest of people.

And that was a big factor in people not wanting to get behind her, because everyone else colors within the lines and when you have someone that colors outside the lines, it doesn't sit well with voters.

BALDWIN: I hear Symone saying that Trump would color outside the lines in a much different way as well.

But, ladies, we have got to leave it.

Symone and Alice, I have been talking to you all long enough to know what -- your thought bubbles. Thank you both so much.

Just in here, we have received a statement from Republican Senator John McCain. He rips Donald Trump over his talks with Vladimir Putin.

Elise Labott is joining me, our CNN global affairs correspondent.

What is Senator McCain saying exactly?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, it's a very tough statement for Senator McCain, who, as you know, has been very tough on Russian actions in Syria, support of the regime, particularly in the fight against Aleppo.

And in recent days, we have seen this renewed regime and Syrian offensive against Aleppo. A lot of civilians have been killed, hospitals hit in the last several days.

And now Senator McCain, speaking in wake of this conversation yesterday between president-elect Putin -- president-elect Trump, excuse me, and Vladimir Putin, saying: "With the presidential transition under way, Vladimir Putin has said in recent days that he wants to improve relations with the United States. We should place as much faith in such statements as any other made by a former KGB agent who has plunged his country into tyranny, murdered his political opponents, invaded his neighbors, threatens America's allies and attempt to undermine American elections."

BALDWIN: Wow. LABOTT: So you have heard a lot during this campaign from president- elect Trump how he wants to repair relationship with Russia, work perhaps with Russia to go against ISIS in Syria.

Now Senator McCain making this warning that Vladimir Putin cannot be trusted and really a kind of shot against the bow to president-elect Trump to take what Putin says with a grain of salt and look at his actions.

BALDWIN: Senator McCain is speaking up. We're about to hear from Harry Reid. Elise, thank you so much.

Moments from now on the floor of the U.S. Senate, Minority Leader Harry Reid is getting ready to blast president-elect Trump over his selection of a top adviser. We're standing by for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:01]

BALDWIN: Moments from now on Capitol Hill, outgoing Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid is expected to lash out again at president-elect Donald Trump. The outspoken Nevada Democrat hasn't held back when it comes to Mr. Trump, calling him everything from a racist to a sexual predator, this despite others offering a post-election olive branch.

Let's go to Jeff Zeleny. He is our CNN senior Washington correspondent who is there in the halls of Capitol Hill ahead of this lashing.

What do we think he will be saying?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, we know that Harry Reid really has been leading the charge among Democrats going after Donald Trump after his hires of Steve Bannon and others.

He is scheduled to deliver a floor speech on the floor of the U.S. Senate when it opens shortly after 4:00 this afternoon and go after him again specifically on the hiring of Steve Bannon.

Now, the president, President Obama, has been trying to measure his words. We have seen him at his news conference yesterday and then again earlier today in Greece. He's on the final foreign trip of his presidency, but he's been trying to give Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt.

Hillary Clinton is as well. She's saying that Donald Trump deserves our open mind. That is not what Senator Reid is doing at all. And some other Senate Democrats also are weighing in, calling out the Trump-elect administration for some of their hires.

This is what Jeff Merkley said, the Democrat from Oregon, just a few minutes ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D), OREGON: We call on president-elect Trump to exclude the proponents of discrimination and hatred from the ranks of his administration.

And that includes immediately firing Steve Bannon as his chief strategist. It's time for president-elect Trump to act boldly and powerfully to put the nation on a path of healing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Now, part of this, Brooke, is obviously just responding to the criticism that's out there.

None of these Senate Democrats, certainly Harry Reid and others, do not believe that Donald Trump is going to follow their advice in terms of who he hires or not. But this is just the beginning volley here of what is sure to be a long-running convention between the Democrats and who he puts in his Cabinet.

But, interestingly, how Harry Reid is differing from most other Democrats, he's preparing