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Report: Dem Senators to Trump: Fire Steve Bannon; Trump as Compromiser-In-Chief; Dem Senator to Introduce Bill to End Electoral College; Business Ties Complicate Giuliani Sec'y of State Bid; Ben Carson Declines Cabinet Post; Trump Team Inquires About Top Secret Clearance for Trump Kids

Aired November 15, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Part of this is responding to the hurt that's out there. None of the Senate Democrats certainly Harry Reid and others don't believe Donald Trump will follow their advice in terms of who he hires or not, but this is just the beginning volley of what is sure to be a long running conversation between the Democrats and who he puts in his cabinet. But interestingly how Harry Reid is differing from most other Democrats, he's preparing to take his leave after being up here on Capitol Hill for so long, Brooke. I'm told his speech won't hold back at all.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: I bet it won't and we'll take it live. Jeff Zeleny, thank you on The Hill for us.

Coming up, Donald Trump as compromise- in-chief? My next guest, CNN's very own Michael Smerconish will explain why he thinks the nation perhaps just elected that very notion, a compromiser, and whether President Obama is being too soft on the President-elect.

[15:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back, I'm Brooke Baldwin. There is a deep divide in this country and Donald Trump, President-elect Trump, is now tasked with bridging the gap. But it's not just about reaching across party lines to compromise, he must be a president to all Americans, including the people who feel he marginalized throughout his campaign.

Let me bring in Michael Smerconish who wrote this wonderful piece in the Philly Inquirer wondering out loud whether or not the nation elected a compromiser-in-chief. So, in part you wrote this, "I'd like to think I heard words from a man who wasn't a true believer, but as a deal maker, a pragmatist who knows how to sell and close a deal. This former Democrat who once contributed to the campaign he just defeated never showed an ideological commitment to any extreme before coming a candidate. Maybe that's what we'll get the White House. One can hope." Why are you hopeful?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST: I'm trying to look at it as a glass half full. It occurs to me he is the 2 Corinthians President. I don't mean he's someone who could quote scripture at the drop of a hat but rather someone who very awkwardly made a reference to the new testament. I look back on that scenario and I say he's not a purist, he's not an ideologue, he wants to close a deal, and you close deals by putting people together and so I'm trying to give him a fresh start.

You afforded me an opportunity over the course of the last year and a half to talk about this campaign and on many occasions I was very critical of the style in which he campaigned. I'm not going to forgive or forget but I am trying to wipe that slate clean ala what the President said as you just made reference, as Secretary Clinton noted. I'm try nothing in the sake of national unity to say it's a new day, let's judge him from this moment forward.

On the glass half-full note, you have President Obama, you have folks like Oprah, Dave Chappelle over the weekend on "SNL" but they've been criticized for urging Americans to give Trump a chance. Because other folks are saying, no. Listen to this, Jamalah Lemieux, she doesn't agree. She's the former senior "Ebony" magazine editor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMALAH LEMIEUX, FORMER EDITOR, "EBONY" MAGAZINE: That last moment where he says "I am going to give Donald Trump a chance" didn't sit well with me. I was disappointed to hear it. I think it's the sort of -- I don't know if cowardice is the word but that willing to be tolerant and accepting that defines the left is both a gift and a curse. This is someone who ran a campaign on hatred and bigotry, who has since he has been elected chosen some of the most dangerous people possible to staff his White House with. The idea that we should be tolerant to him as if our political differences make him a -- somebody who's has been disenfranchised or discriminated against, that we can compare Donald Trump to Muslims, to women who are afraid to walk around wearing their hijabs, to trans people afraid of going to the bathroom, to people afraid of going to their churches because they see anti-Latino sentiments scrawled on their religious space, to say that we all just need to listen to each other, to give each other a chance, to try and get along --

BALDWIN: You wish he hadn't done that?

LEMIEUX: I wish he hadn't done that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was something I wanted to play again today what she said and my question would be if you were advising the President- elect, what could he say? What could he do? What could he show to assuage the fears of Americans like that?

SMERCONISH: Two things, if I might. First of all, I, too, have received that blowback ala Oprah or Dave Chappelle or the President or secretary Clinton because I've tried to toe this line of national unity and we've been talking about it non-stop on my Sirius XM radio program. And many women reflect the woman you just aired. Now let me give you a direct answer.

There are a series of incidents at schools that are unsettling, one at the University of Pennsylvania seemingly emanating from the University of Oklahoma where African American students were singled out for some hateful treatment. I would love to see President-elect Trump go to one of those locations. There's a high school in my backyard that has been the scene today.

How great it would be if he would go into the belly of the beast, meet with students and say this is unacceptable and let me tell you why in the same way he looked into the camera in the "60 minutes" interview and said "stop it."

Get out of Trump Tower and go into environments with young Americans and let them know you have zero tolerance for that kind abhorrent behavior.

BALDWIN: Maybe he's listening. Michael Smerconish. One more quick question. We know Senator Barbara Boxer, huge, huge Hillary Clinton supporter, later today she will introduce a Senate bill that aims to end the electoral college. Hillary Clinton won on the popular vote, what do you think?

SMERCONISH: This is such a difficult time to have this conversation because people suit up in their usual jersey dependent upon whether they're satisfied with the outcome of the election a week ago, so there's serious issues that need to be thought through and the dust needs to settle before we can do that.

One example, I like in the abstract, the idea of a direct election of President which is we don't have but, Brooke, what if you have a repeat like we had in 2000 and you need to recount not just in Florida because Florida's electoral votes are at stake but the whole country. How the heck do you do that? And look at the attention heaped on small states like New Hampshire. Sorry, you're not getting that attention. The urban and suburban areas will get the attention and states will be ignored.

[15:40:00] I say to Senator Boxer let's move slowly, let the dust settle and have discourse about it.

BALDWIN: Michael Smerconish, always a treat tune into watch him, Saturday mornings on CNN. Thank you. New information about a roadblock for Rudy Giuliani as we talk about the Trump transition team and cabinet picks. He wants to be secretary of state. Hear why something about his past is raising concerns. Is he qualified? We'll discuss with a former Giuliani advisor.

[15:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Rudy Giuliani, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's strong play to take on a role within President-elect Trump's cabinet could be in trouble. This is what we're hearing, a source familiar with transition talks is telling CNN, a close Trump confidante, Rudy Giuliani may not be a lock for the position of secretary of state because of his previous business ties in places like Qatar and the Venezuelan government.

While speaking to the "Wall Street Journal", the former New York Mayor dismissed talk of becoming Trump's attorney general suggesting he prefers the secretary of state job. With me now, Rick Wilson, a former strategist for Rudy Giuliani's 2000 Senate campaign. You're the perfect voice on this. Rick, good to see you. RICK WILSON, FORMER STRATEGIST FOR RUDY GIULIANI: How are you,

Brooke?

BALDWIN: Wonderful. My question for you is, you know, with your knowledge of Rudy Giuliani, does he have the chops to be secretary of state?

WILSON: I don't doubt Rudy has the chops to be secretary of state but I think you're seeing a game being played out inside the nascent Trump administration and you're seeing the divisions already. There's a Bolton camp and a Giuliani camp for the secretary of state slot do I think you'll have some sniping back and forth in that regard. I would point out the irony of anybody worrying about business and other conflicts of interest about Rudy, if they didn't call this that out with Hillary their standing isn't as strong as it could be.

BALDWIN: I think there was definitely talk over Hillary Clinton's business ties in the CGI but that's a thing of the past. We're talking about the nascent transition team, as you point out. You have been a proud member of the never Trump movement. Let's play this game. If Trump selects Giuliani, would that ease some of your concerns about a President Trump?

WILSON: As Emerson once said, an institution is the length and shadow of one man so no matter how many folks he brings in from the outside, if it's basically a matrix of decision making based on Donald Trump's preferences and philosophies and ideologies and as assisted by Steve Bannon as is north star it concerns me, the direction that rolls downhill no matter who's in those various jobs.

BALDWIN: But another planet in addition to the north star is a Reince Priebus, then you have Jared Kushner, the son-in-law who, by the way, when you look at all three of them, they could not be more different -- age, politics, religion, ideology, what does that say to you?

WILSON: Well, look|, the last time we saw a triumvirate in the White House was in the first Reagan administration and it's different than today but this is

not going to be a team of rivals in the Lincoln sense of the world.

BALDWIN: You don't think so.

WILSON: I don't see Reince Priebus -- for all the complaints by the Trump folks about the establishment, Reince Priebus couldn't represent the establishment more thoroughly until this year. And I think Kushner gives him a sense of stability and family, like a backstop with family connections and ties and unquestioned loyalty. He's inexperienced he doesn't know what's going on in that environment and the friction of a White House operation will become apparent once they have to start tackling consequential issues day to day.

And Steve Bannon is an ideological driver for this presidency to push him out further and further into away from conservatism towards nationalism, and towards the sort of globalist populism. So, I think Reince Priebus wants to make the trains run on time. Steve Bannon wants to have a revolution. And Kushner wants protect his father in law.

BALDWIN: That's a perfect way to put it. What about -- what about President Obama? You know, he was asked -- he has been answering questions. He was at the White House yesterday and asked twice whether he thinks President-elect Trump would be qualified to be President and twice he dodged the answer. Did you notice that?

WILSON: I saw it. And look, here's -- I think he has learned or picked up a lesson from George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush that, no matter how severe the ideological differences are you are trying to make the transition as seamless and as smooth as possible. I think what Obama said on the trail about Trump is probably what he believes about Trump. He also knows that the guy has been elected by the people of the United States of America and to not put himself in the noose of having, you know, questioned Trump's legitimacy while he is sitting as President.

BALDWIN: Rick Wilson. Thank you.

WILSON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, all the talk of Trump's transition team apparently inquired about whether or not the President-elect adult children could possibly receive some sort of top-secret security clearances. There has been no sign. They're stepping, away from Trump's businesses so there are obviously questions about conflicts of interest.

[15:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Could Donald Trump's adult children receive access to some of America's secrets? CNN has learned that the President-elect's transition team has inquired about the possibility of allowing three of his adult children plus his son-in-law some sort of top secret clearance. Let's talk about that with the former secret service agent who is on President Obama's security detail.

Let's talk about that with Jonathan Wackrow. He's a former secret service agent who spent five years on President Obama's security detail. You know a thing or two. Nice to have you on the show.

JONATHAN WACKROW, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

BALDWIN: Let's begin with -- again, a caveat with they're looking into the possibility of maybe requesting the security clearances. If it goes through, what kind of intel would they have access to?

WACKROW: It depends on what level of clearance they want to have.

BALDWIN: What's the highest they could have?

WACKROW: There's secret and compartmentalized information, SCI. That's when you get into the real fidelity of secrecy of the United States and different programs out there. I don't think that the -- his adult children need that. But I think it's a great option for them.

We know that they're going to be part of the administration in some capacity. Even tangential, just part of an advisory group to the incoming President. So, why not go through the vetting process, just to clear the air and make sure that they have a top-secret clearance that they can go back and stand upon, that there is no question about, you know, foreign allegiances or any questions like that. This is a very good idea.

BALDWIN: That's interesting you're saying that. They're' on the transition team. We don't know if they'd have a role in the actual administration. The rub would be they're integral in the Trump business, so one could come into, you know, national security information or something that they could take a then use for business or vice versa. Isn't that a conflict of interest?

WACKROW: There could be. They'll have to set up some sort of fire wall to prevent that. Today the President-elect received his first Presidential daily briefing. So, that is the highest security level they could potentially get. Who is he talking about that to? Who in his inner circle is he able to say, wow, this is what I just heard. How am I going to plan my government? The President-elect needs to surround himself quickly by people who have the clearances and the ability to openly discuss the transformation of government and what's going on out there. I think it's very important.

BALDWIN: What about the White House? The question I am getting at -- because President-elect Trump mentioned maybe he would like to spend weekends up here in New York in Trump Tower, even President Obama was caught -- it was a hot mike moment -- where he said he would have maybe liked to have stayed in Chicago. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So is this a residence -- as well.

UNIDENTIFIED POLITICIAN: Yes.

OBAMA: I wish I had the option.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Wish I had the option. Is it an actual option? If President-elect Trump wanted to spend a chunk of time in Trump tower, would he even be able to do that?

WACKROW: He is going to be the President, so he -- at the end of the day --

BALDWIN: That's a yes?

WACKROW: He can do whatever he wants. The White House is the seat of power of the executive branch. There's a massive structure -- again, it goes to there is Donald Trump being the President. It's the presidency. There's, you know, a whole structure built around the presidency. Whether it's national security issues, economic issues.

BALDWIN: But as his secret service agent would that have given you a coronary thinking of having to protect a President at Trump Tower where other people live on fifth avenue one of the busiest roads in American.

[16:00:00] WACKROW: It is a monumental task. It's not unattainable. We will protect the President. We do it anyway. If he leaves the White House and goes To San Francisco we move the White House with him. We move the security, you know, protective methodology around him anywhere he goes. So, it's not unattainable. The biggest impact is on the people of New York.

BALDWIN: Right!

WACKROW: That's where the administration, again, needs to be looking at every decision they make, every action that he takes is going to have an equal and opposite reaction around the world. Specifically, here in New York City.

BALDWIN: John, thank you.

WACKROW: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

BALDWIN: Thank you for coming on. I'm Brooke Baldwin here in New York. We'll send it to Washington. Jim Sciutto sitting in for Jake Tapper. "The Lead" starts right now.