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Trump And Pence Meeting On Transition; Obama Says Must Guard Against Crude Nationalism At Talk In Greece; Obama Wants Smooth Transition; Congressional Republicans Consider Ryan's Future. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired November 15, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We start with new details on the transition of power here in Washington and the makeup of president-elect Donald Trump's team. Vice president-elect Mike Pence, he's leading the transition team. He's in New York City right now over at Trump Tower meeting with the president-elect. We could hear their choices for some key cabinet folks as early as later today.

Right now, congressional Republicans are gathering to decide whether to stick with Paul Ryan as the House speaker. There have been some talk of a challenge to his speakership. But in the wake of the Trump victory, that talk has now largely died down.

The final speaker election comes, by the way, in January. And while the Trump team looks ahead to the makeup of their administration in Washington, President Barack Obama, he's in Greece right now on his last planned overseas trip as president of the United States.

In Greece, the president spoke about what he thinks brought about the dramatic U.S. election results and the danger it could bring.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At times of significant stress, people are going to be looking for something, and they don't always know exactly what it is that they're looking for, and they may opt for change even if they're not entirely confident what that change will bring.

We are going to have to guard against a rise in a prude sort of nationalism or ethnic identity or tribalism that is built around an us and a them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, let's get back to the Trump transition for a moment. Somewhat surprising news, by the way, about Dr. Ben Carson apparently turning down a cabinet post.

Our Politics Reporter Sara Murray is in New York City for us. Sara, explain what happened with Dr. Ben Carson. He ran for the Republican presidential nomination. Didn't do that well but then became a very strong supporter of Donald Trump.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right and he was a very early supporter of Donald Trump. And there were a lot of discussions about what role he could play, potentially, in a Donald Trump administration, maybe at health and Human services, maybe in the department of education.

But now, we're hearing from those close to Ben Carson that he's not really interested in being part of Donald Trump's administration, that he's not planning on heading to Washington into the White House.

And I think what you're going to see is the fact that there's going to be a lot of push and pull for a number of these people when it comes to these positions. They have rallied behind a candidate who appeared to have a long shot who is now the presidential-elect. And a number of these folks have lucrative businesses and a potential to make even more money if they stay outside of the White House.

So, I do think that you will see a couple of instances like this of people we maybe would have expected to see in a Donald Trump administration who don't end up making the leap.

BLITZER: Do we know what positions, specific cabinet positions for example, and specific names they're focusing in this -- these critically important meetings at Trump Tower today?

MURRAY: Well, this is going to be a really interesting meeting between Donald Trump and Mike Pence because, of course, Mike Pence was named to take over the transition last week. And so, this is giving them an opportunity to both bring names to the table that they want to focus on.

Now, my colleague, Dana Bash, has noted that Mike Pence, for instance, is a fan of Tom Cotton as potential defense secretary. So, that's sure to be one of the names that Mike Pence is bringing to the table.

As for Donald Trump, he wants to talk about the education secretary, I'm told by one of the sources on the transition team. And they're looking at names like Michelle Reed, names like Eva Moskowitz. People who have been the head of, sort of, pushes for charter school. Eva Moskowitz, for instance, is the CEO of a chain of charter schools.

They're also going to be talking about commerce secretary and they're throwing in some sort of outside-the-box notions for that, for instance Peter Thiel. Treasury secretary has been a big one. Sources have really pointed to Steve Mnuchin who is involved in Donald Trump's fund raising as a clear leader for this position.

But it's clear, Donald Trump wants to include more names in that mix, for instance Jamie Dimon as well as Ben Bernanke. Now, I'm told by source close to Ben Bernanke, the former Federal Reserve chairman, he would not be interested in this position.

But it gives you sense of how Donald Trump and his advisers want to try to cast a wide net. They want to see if maybe they can lure in people who weren't necessarily interested before.

And I think we're seeing the same play out when you look at the list of people they want to talk about for secretary of state. Of course, Rudy Giuliani is on that list. We know he's interested in that position. Advisers have mentioned him for that precision.

But we're also seeing Henry Paulson as a name Donald Trump wants to talk about today. He's a former treasury secretary who was openly critical of Donald Trump. In fact, he wrote an op-ed saying he was voting for Hillary Clinton.

[13:05:03] So, I think part of what you're seeing from the Trump campaign and -- or from the Trump transition effort is they want to send a message that they're willing to look at people who have been critical of Donald Trump in the past. And they're willing to look outside the box of what we normally see for some of these cabinet positions -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Critically important decisions indeed. Sara, thanks very much. Sara Murray in New York.

I want to bring in our political panel right away. David Chalian is CNN's Political Director, Jackie Kucinich is a CNN Political Analyst, the Washington Bureau Chief for "The Daily Beast" Molly Ball is a senior political writer for "The Atlantic."

These decisions, presumably, they could be coming pretty fast right now and they are so important.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, they're critically important. You heard President Obama say that one of the things that Donald Trump and President Obama talked about in their Oval Office meeting was how important it was to staff up the west wing, the closest advisers, obviously the cabinet officials and the most, sort of, national security, economic positions that are critically important.

It's not that long, Wolf, from now until January 20th. You want to get a team standing up especially because Donald Trump is such an outsider to all of this. Finding the right mix of people for him, for someone that doesn't have experience doing this, I think makes it all the more important.

BLITZER: It's a critically important decision and clearly Mike Pence is now in charge -- the vice president-elect, in charge of this transition. But Donald Trump, he's going to have a huge say. He's the president-elect.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think the assumption is that he is going to talk to every one of these people before they actually end up in that position.

But another thing they're contending with, and we're just starting to see this, is some of their picks are actually push back already. Someone like -- John Bolton has been someone who's name has been floated. And -- BLITZER: Former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. during the Bush administration.

KUCINICH: Right, and that has been mentioned for secretary of state. And you already see Rand Paul, Senator from Kentucky, saying that he will do everything in his power to not have that happen because he's a -- he is a defense hawk.

BLITZER: Senator Paul, by the way, is going to join us later this hour --

KUCINICH: And he'll probably say that.

BLITZER: -- here. Yes.

KUCINICH: So, you are seeing that already. So, there is this give and take that you're already seeing that they're going to have to contend with within their own party, let alone the Democrats.

BLITZER: What are you hearing, Molly? How much friction is there right now? We've heard all sorts of very colorful descriptions.

MOLLY BALL, POLITICAL WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": Well, there's a lot of friction, in part, because this -- his victory was so unexpected that people didn't have a chance to start fighting over the spoils beforehand. Now everyone has suddenly jumped in.

The divisions within the Republican Party that existed before exist and are exasperated today, Trump has signaled by appointing both Reince Priebus and Steve Bannon as, supposedly, coequals in the west wing that he wants to have competing power centers. That he wants some degree of internal conflict.

Someone like Mike Pence, a regular Republican, a congressional Republican, is someone who, I think, Republicans look at and think, this would be a normal Republican administration.

But we can't say that just yet. And the types of picks that Trump starts to make is going to signal whether he wants to be a much more, sort of, unorthodox figure along the lines of his campaign.

CHALIAN: And I think it's really going to be fascinating to see some of the names that Sara just bandied about and talking about. Some of these people were dedicated never Trumpers, right? Some of these names are Democrats, obviously.

Watching the evolution from somebody who was committed to Trump's defeat, especially if they're a Republican I think, to then joining the administration will be an interesting thing.

And whether or not Donald Trump's team, as you said, co-equal power centers, feels that that's inviting trouble inside the close-knit group to bring in a never Trumper or that that is a breath of -- breath of fresh air into the inner circle. Somebody who can speak, sort of, truth to power and say, no, I wasn't with you at the campaign and here's why. Whether or not that kind of voice is welcome I think is going to be a very tell-tale sign.

BLITZER: Through his adviser, Dr. Ben Carson, notified all of us, he really isn't interested in taking a cabinet position. There is a lot of speculation, since he is a physician, maybe health and Human services might be a good idea for him. But Armstrong Williams, his long-time aide, says, you know what? He doesn't really want that job. It's way, way too complicated.

MURRAY: I mean, he wanted to be president which is also to say -- I mean, he did run for president which is a bigger job than HHS. But, yes, it seems like Ben Carson thinks he can do more from the periphery. But he was a very loyal Donald Trump supporter.

But one thing that, to your point, will be very interesting is to see -- it will show an evolution of Donald Trump already, if he does welcome in someone who may have been against him because this isn't someone that is known to not hold grudges.

So, to see that will actually, you know, be probably a good sign for maybe some of the people that are a little nervous about his administration.

BLITZER: It's seems clear, Molly, that Rudy Giuliani, the former New York City mayor, really would like to be the secretary of state. John Bolton, the former U.S. ambassador to the U.N., he'd like to be the secretary of state.

There are other names, Bob Corker. He's going to be joining us, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. His name has been thrown out there. What are you hearing?

BALL: Well, I'm hearing all of those names and then some. And as we've said, everyone is, sort of, on the table, at this point. Republicans have been out of power for so long that there are a whole lot of people waiting in the wings.

[13:10:05] And because Trump's campaign was so divisive, as Jackie was saying, there are a lot of Republicans who opposed him. And if there's anything we know about Donald Trump it's that he loves to humiliate and take vengeance on his enemies.

The question is, does he think the best way to do that is to bring them in? So, in the end, they -- all of those people who opposed him end up working for him. Or is the best way to do that to keep them out, to freeze them out. To say, only the people who were loyal and got on the train early get to come inside. I don't think we know that yet.

BLITZER: On that list we just put up, those five pictures, we also saw the former speaker, Newt Gingrich, on that list. I'm sure he'd like to be the secretary of state. Richard Haass, the President of the Council on Foreign Relations, former State Department official during the Bush administration, his name is mentioned as well. CHALIAN: Yes, but as you -- as you noted, Rudy Giuliani basically was

publicly applying for the job yesterday when he was speaking to the "Washington Journal" gathering, speaking about -- that this is something he can envision himself in. If, indeed, Giuliani is the pick, tell me if this sounds familiar? Paid speeches and foreign entities that are clients of yours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE.)

CHALIAN: Yes. I think some of the issues that we saw around the Clinton Foundation and Hillary Clinton as secretary of state, if Rudy Giuliani is the pick, I do wonder if we're going to revisit some of those issues just because of what his career and business interests have been over the last several years.

BLITZER: Because he did make a -- his law firm as well as his paid speaking engagements included some foreign entities.

CHALIAN: Without a doubt. And he advised a lot of foreign governments about homeland security issues. This is what Giuliani partners, after he left the mayoralty, was all about. His disentanglement from that, I think, will be something that will be for consideration if he is the pick.

BLITZER: All right, guys, stick around. We have more to assess.

Senator Rand Paul, as I mentioned, he is fired up over Donald Trump's potential pick of John Bolton maybe as a U.S. ambassador -- as a U.S. secretary of state. Why he's calling a fellow Republican a menace who's partly to blame for the rise of ISIS. Senator Paul standing by to join us live.

Also, President Obama, he's now on his final trip overseas. He's delivering a stern warning about what he calls crude nationalism. We have details when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:15:57] BLITZER: While President Obama's successor, President-elect Donald Trump, is preparing for the transition to the White House, selecting his new cabinet, President Obama, he's in Greece right now on his final oversees trip as president of the United States. Speaking in Athens just a little while ago, the president admitted he was surprised by the election results.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I still don't feel responsible for what the president-elect says or does, but I do feel a responsibility as president of the United States to make sure that I facilitate a good transition and I present to him, as well as to the American people, my best thinking, my best ideas about how you move the country forward. To speak out with respect to areas where I think the Republican Party's wrong, but to pledge to work with him on those things that I think will advance the causes of security and prosperity and justice and inclusiveness in America. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Our White House correspondent, Michelle Kosinski, is in Athens, Greece, right now. She's traveling with the president.

Michelle, how is the President-elect Donald Trump perceived in Greece?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, tonight, in fact, there are protests. Not necessarily against Donald Trump, but these are left-wing protestors. They're against American involvement in the Middle East.

But what Greeks have been looking for, for years, of course, has been stability. A resolution of their financial problems and their debt crisis. I mean that's still ongoing. And what Greece has wanted is for the U.S. to really plead its case with other European powers and with Greeks -- Greece's creditors to try to get them a good deal to relieve some of their debt. That's why President Obama is on this trip partially. And he's going to be speaking to Angela Merkel and other European leaders in the next few days.

So Greeks see a new administration that has deeply divergent views with President Obama as just more stability. They're hoping to try to get this debt deal done before Donald Trump assumes office. They're worried about his policies, his fiscal policies, and also his policies towards Europe.

You know, on the trail, Donald Trump repeatedly said he would back away from Greece. He talked about the euro as being problematic for the United States and being designed to be anti-U.S. So Greeks are worried that Donald Trump isn't going to be the kind of ally that President Obama was as it tries to resolve its crisis.

You know, while President Obama has been here, even though it's only been a day, we've heard him talking about how Greece's stability is European stability is global stability. That's what they want. They've appreciated President Obama's involvement and they just don't know what they're going to get from here on out, Wolf.

BLITZER: Michelle Kosinski in Athens for us, a beautiful city indeed. Michelle, thanks very much.

Let's bring back our panel.

You know it was interesting today, David, you heard the president of the United States in Athens at that news conference with the Greek leader once again very gracious to Donald Trump.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I think Barack Obama has made clear that he sees part of his legacy, almost if you will, is this smooth transition and this handoff. He does not want one iota questioned about how he handled this. He calls it the handing off of the baton to Donald Trump. He wants all questions about that to be on the Trump side. He's going to try -- and he just said very publically, he is so committed to this. And I think he does that not only for the benefit of the American people and his own reputation, but just like we learned in the campaign, some of the best ways to talk to Donald Trump is very publicly and on television. I believe Barack Obama is doing that very publicly and trying to speak to Donald Trump and guide him through this process as well.

[13:20:06] BLITZER: And he noted, what he seemed to suggest, that what's going on here in the United States is going on elsewhere around the world. There are a lot of people who are not very happy. They want to see change.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, yes, that you've seen the backlash in the U.K. certainly. I mean Donald Trump liked to compare his campaign to Brexit. So this is -- this is a -- I mean everything would be global, right? I mean this election will have global implications, just like Brexit did. So I think that, you know, I think he -- one of the things he's doing over there is telling these world leaders that are skittish, everything's going to be OK. Look, it's going to be OK here. It's going to be OK here. And we're going to help lead his sort of new era that's coming out of the Trump administration.

BLITZER: He's sort of frustrating the president right now. Some of his Democratic allies, when they hear him saying all these positive things, nice things, if it's good for Donald Trump, it will be good for the country. There are some Democrats not very happy with that kind of talk, Molly.

MOLLY BALL, POLITICAL WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": Well, the Democrats, you know, are so decimated at this point. They have lost power at every level. They are not in charge of either house of Congress. They didn't win the presidency, as they 100 percent expected to do. And they face a real choice right now. In the immediate term, you know, they face the choice of leadership. But more than that, they have to decide, like the Republicans did eight years ago, do they try to make Donald Trump a successful president, potentially making him popular in the process, or do they engage in a strategy of massive resistance and total obstruction in an attempt to simply hold out until they can take power again?

I don't think Democrats have made that decision. You have Obama, I think, clearly coming down on one side of this while also, as you said, trying to reassure other nations that this is not part of a wave, which a lot of Trump's allies would very much like it to be. They would like this to be the -- the second one on the list after Brexit and there are many European countries who have these right wing nationalists movement and they could be the next to fall if he's indeed started the trend.

BLITZER: And as you know, David, the Democrats, they're trying to figure out what happened. They were stunned, shocked, by the outcome of his presidential election here in the United States and now there are all sorts of views emerging. What do the Democrats do next?

CHALIAN: A lot of Republicans were stunned and shocked also at the outcome of the election.

BLITZER: I think it's fair to say Donald Trump was stunned. CHALIAN: Yes. Not just the Democrats, but to Molly's point, they were

clearly counting on a victory.

They are going through a soul searching process right now. They are going to have to find the lessons from this election and I don't think they've settled on what those lessons are. You're going to see this play out in many different ways. In the battle for the chairmanship of the Democratic National Committee, in whether or not Nancy Pelosi is the leader of the House Democrats going forward in the House. I think your -- there will be different proxy fights for the larger conversation going inside the party now is, what is the post-Obama Democratic Party? How much of the Democratic Party over the last eight years was simply unique to Barack Obama and how much is developing in what it can be beyond just one person for the future?

KUCINICH: And who is it going to -- who's going to be the leader now?

CHALIAN: Right.

KUCINICH: Because there isn't, after Obama leaves, there isn't a leader of the Democratic Party. Is it going to be Elizabeth Warren? Is it going to be Bernie Sanders? Both of them are sort of making a play. Is it going to be Keith Ellison, the Democratic congressman from Minnesota? It really is -- that's -- that is up for grabs right now.

But one thing you're hearing -- one silver lining, I guess, you're hearing from Democrats is Trump's promise on transportation funding. It's something that they are saying that they can work with him. So, you know, we'll have to see how that plays out, but --

BALL: And yet you have Republicans vowing to work against Trump.

KUCINICH: Exactly.

BALL: You have Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell both saying they are not interested in a big spending infrastructure plan.

KUCINICH: Right.

BALL: So I think the first test for Donald Trump is going to be whether he can actually get his first priority through a Republican Congress, and that will tell us very much about who wears the pants in the years ahead.

BLITZER: All right, guys, stay with us because there's more coming up.

The House is holding leadership elections behind closed doors. Will anyone emerge to challenge Paul Ryan as the speaker of the House? We're going live to Capitol Hill when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:28:24] BLITZER: Right now congressional Republicans be behind closed doors up on Capitol Hill. They're holding a meeting, trying to decide if they will give Paul Ryan another term as the speaker of the House. Before the presidential election, there were some signs that Ryan could face some resistance in keeping his position, but no one has stepped up to the -- to challenge him.

Our senior political reporter, Manu Raju, is joining us from Capitol Hill right now following the story very closely. What are you hearing, Manu, right now?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: A lot of applause, actually. This meeting is happening right behind me, behind these closed doors. A pep rally of sorts. A much different mood than we saw just a month ago when Republicans could barely say Donald Trump's name, now rallying behind him, even passing our "make America great" hats at a meeting earlier today. Actually just now, Greg Walden, who is the head of the National Republican Congressional Committee, talking about the gains that Republicans made, although they did lose some seats in the House races, but not nearly enough to lose their House majority.

Now, they're going to have probably at least 238 seats in the new Congress. Now, Paul Ryan is expected to be re-elected speaker here in just a few minutes. And speaking to reporters earlier today, really talking about his optimism about working with a Trump administration. I asked him about any concerns that he had with the Trump children running the Trump businesses, if that presented any conflict of interest, especially as we talk about possibly them getting security clearances. Paul Ryan downplayed any concerns.

[13:29:57] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Donald Trump is a multibillionaire, successful businessman who has been so successful because he's surrounded himself with good people. He is a man who has made great successes, created tens of thousands of jobs because he gets good advice from good people who are around him in his life. What's wrong with that? That's a good thing.