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Immigration Fears; Nancy Pelosi's Competition; Trump and Romney Set to Meet. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 17, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Potential picks for his Cabinet and White House staff descending upon what has become transition central. Let's throw up some faces here.

Among some of the visitors, you have Henry Kissinger, former secretary of state, the mayor of Cincinnati, the governor in Florida, and South Carolina's governor, Nikki Haley, who, according to a source, is being considered for secretary of state.

But the visit now getting the biggest buzz, CNN has learned that Mitt Romney is on Trump's agenda for the weekend.

So let's go to Phil Mattingly with the scoop.

And, again, this is a man, Phil Mattingly, who in that Utah speech called Mr. Trump a phony and a fraud and a fake, but kudos to both of them.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Con man. Thank you.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Also con man repeatedly in a very lengthy speech and somebody who never came around.

There were a lot of Republicans who said they were not going to support Donald Trump throughout the primary process and eventually came around, Nikki Haley being one of those individuals. Not Mitt Romney.

Here's why this matters, and I think this is an important deal. First and foremost, the source, Mark Preston, our stellar colleague, was who broke this news.

BALDWIN: Stellar.

MATTINGLY: Saying this is a meeting between Donald Trump, a one-on- one meeting between Donald Trump and Mitt Romney and they will discuss governing and a potential spot in a Donald Trump Cabinet.

Now, why this matters is a couple reasons. First and foremost, there's no question about it. In the first week in the wake of Donald Trump's stunning election, loyalty mattered. It always matters to Donald Trump and is mattering to his team as well.

So a lot of Republicans felt very much on the outside, that because we didn't support you wholeheartedly we weren't being allowed into the transition process. And a lot of Republicans were very worried about what that meant for the future administration. There's a lot of talent that would kind of be expelled because of that.

So this kind of addresses that a little bit as well, but this is also a very clear sign to Republicans worried about the direction of this administration that, hey, we're willing to talk to anybody and you all respected Mitt Romney, you all got behind Mitt Romney in 2012, everybody respects what Mitt Romney did in organizing the Olympics as a governor of Massachusetts. And we're sitting down and talking to him. Everybody else should be willing to come in as well.

It's an important kind of olive branch from the Trump folks and it's an important olive branch for Mitt Romney recognizing this is the president-elect and this is the man he is going to work with and potentially for, for the next four years.

BALDWIN: Both of them are in it, hopefully bettering America.

As far as just quickly Governor Haley, do we have any scoop on the meeting? Is she still over there?

MATTINGLY: She has been over there.

I think this was another interesting element, right She had been very opposed to him while she was supporting Marco Rubio. She did eventually come around. I think the big question now is, we have sources telling us she is definitely in the running for a spot as high as secretary of state.

I have talked to a lot of Republican officials kind of scratching their head about that. What is her qualifications for that? But what I do think, when you talk to Trump advisers, the point they want to make is, we're bringing in the most talented people across the board in our party that we think can contribute.

Will she be the secretary of state selection? Nobody is saying that right now. Rudy Giuliani clearly has kind of the leg up on that. But that she's willing to come in and that the Trump advisers want to bring her and many others in the party in right now is an important moment for a campaign, a transition now, that's had a lot of difficulty over the last couple days.

And now every time you talk to somebody, they say, hey, we're getting it back on track, we're getting the right people in here, we giving the president-elect the opportunity to make the decisions to help his administration going forward.

BALDWIN: No one is taking a breath. It's just full steer ahead.

MATTINGLY: We all had those vacations planned. Not so much anymore.

BALDWIN: Bye-bye. Phil Mattingly, excellent job. Thank you so much for your reporting, as always.

Let's just refresh our memories here just a little bit on how bitter the relationship was between Governor Romney and president-elect Trump. Back in June, Romney said Trump's election could legitimize racism and misogyny and Trump hit back hard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Poor Mitt Romney, it's sad. He's going around say, oh, oh. He's a sad case. He choked. You know what a choke artist is, right?

When a guy misses the kick, you get rid of him, you bring another one in, right? Because you don't want that thought going in his head too much. He choked. He should have beaten a failed guy. He was a failed president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's talk about this with CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger, CNN political commentator Ryan Lizza, who is a Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker," CNN political commentator Andre Bauer, who is the former South Carolina lieutenant governor, a Donald Trump supporter and can talk about of course Nikki Haley, and with us, CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston.

Great to see all of you, so much to talk about again today.

Maeve, I want to begin with you just because you were in the trenches. You covered Romney's presidential run. And now we have the news, thank you, Mark Preston, that he will be meeting with Donald Trump this weekend and talking even as much as a potential position in the Cabinet. How do you read that?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, a position in the Cabinet, some of the Romney sources that I have talked to say that may be like a little bit too premature of a step.

I think that Romney is someone how is magnanimous. He is someone who wants the country to get off on the right footing with a presidential transition team that is clearly scrambling to fill these positions.

[15:05:01]

And there's no one who knows the process really better than Mitt Romney. Mike Leavitt, who ran his transition team, literally teamed up to write a book on how you do a presidential transition. Mitt Romney was very familiar with many of the names they were going through, the vast number of positions you have to fill.

And so I think that Mitt Romney can offer in that meeting not only names, but guidance about how to approach this, how to vet people. And I think that, you know, that will be the spirit of the meeting tomorrow. As far as floating Romney for some kind of position, certainly he would be qualified for any number of things, but that may be more coming from the Trump team that the Romney side. BALDWIN: Gloria, I know you have Republican sources. What's your

intel?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

Well, you know, I have talked to a bunch of Romney people who were surprised and stunned by this, first of all, so kudos to Mark Preston for breaking the news before even they knew about it.

BALDWIN: Wow.

BORGER: And they, above all else, say that Romney's a patriot, as Maeve was saying, and that, of course, he would want to offer his guidance and his support.

The question of whether, A, he would even be offered a job, because don't forget people who voted for Donald Trump also voted against the establishment and Mitt Romney embodies the establishment. So, whether he'd be offered something is an open question.

And whether he would take it is another big question, because there are those who believe that Romney is a patriot and would do whatever he could do for his country. And there are some I spoke with who said, look, on foreign policy in particular, don't forget Romney was the one who said that Russia was the number one foreign policy problem facing the United States.

And if you look at what Donald Trump has said about Vladimir Putin, I think he's kind of at the other end of the spectrum. So there would be issues upon which they might have very, very difficult time dealing with each other.

BALDWIN: Well, let's also throw under the Republican establishment columns South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley. Not only that, Ryan Lizza, she was the first Indian-American woman to become governor of South Carolina.

But she endorsed several other candidates, Cruz, Rubio, until ultimately she said OK to Trump. Do you think they are giving her a good look? It's one thing to be governor, it's quite another to be secretary of state or this just a total pump fake?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I don't know really on Haley.

It a little puzzling she would be a serious candidate for secretary of state, given that she just doesn't have any background in that world. The other candidates that have been talked about make a little bit more sense.

I do think on Romney this is the most interesting meeting so far that Trump's had on his schedule. And, look, people that hate each other in politics have worked together before. Remember, John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson hated each other. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were not the best of friends before he chose her as secretary of state. This is different. Romney never came around to Trump. He was the

sort of leader of the never-Trump movement in a sense, the leader of the opposition. And so for Trump who in his victory speech the first thing he said was, people who are against me, I'm going to bring you in, he hasn't really made good on that promise yet.

And so this will be an interesting test for him, whether he can -- whether loyalty during the primaries is the ultimate thing you need to get into the world or if he's willing to forgive.

For Romney, I think it's a different thing. A lot of the people around Romney will surely be telling him stay away from the Trump administration, you were right about this guy, he's a danger. But I think a lot of other people will be saying, you know what? As bad as you think Trump is, he needs the best people in the Republican Party. And get in there and serve your country.

And, frankly, my own view is the latter is the thing that most Republicans -- view most Republicans should take.

BALDWIN: As Gloria put it, he's a patriot.

But, Andre, you're my South Carolina voice, you're also my Trump supporter voice. So just to remind our viewers, Governor Haley, she really rose to the occasion in the national spotlight in the wake of the church shooting in Charleston, South Carolina, and then the bipartisan effort to remove the Confederate Flag from the state capitol grounds.

Tell me what you think of her and do you think she would have the chops for the job?

ANDRE BAUER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I should as precursor tell you I was in office for 14 years until Nikki Haley beat me for governor.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

BAUER: So, I will try to be as fair as I can.

BALDWIN: Heard it was a good debate.

BAUER: She's clearly one of the -- no, she's one of the movers and shakers within the Republican Party, there's no question.

I think you will see her get a Cabinet post. I don't think it will be secretary of state, but I do think he's interviewing her for a real purpose. I think he is looking at her with serious intent on possibly offering a Cabinet post.

[15:10:08]

I don't think it will be a secretary of state post, but I think what you're seeing is a businessman boardroom Donald Trump. Forget about the campaign. This is now, how do I get it done and who is the most effective and efficient person that I can put in that job?

And so being magnanimous, bringing in people that didn't say the right things, it doesn't matter to him anymore. He's moving forward to try to make this country great again. I admire him for doing it.

BALDWIN: Andre, not to dredge up your loss to Governor Haley, but I know you all would have done opposition research. What are some of the weaknesses under the Governor Haley column?

BAUER: Republicans do not do opposition research. I'm kidding.

(LAUGHTER)

BORGER: Oh, really?

BALDWIN: Wink, wink.

(CROSSTALK)

BAUER: She's run two times. We had a four-way Republican primary that was a heated primary between an attorney general, a lieutenant governor, congressman, and she.

And so she's been vetted. And then she had a reelection as well and then she was at one time talked about as a V.P. candidate. I think when you talk about secretary of state, having no foreign policy experience will be difficult. Clearly, she's met with leaders. We had a boom in business from foreign countries bringing their businesses in here.

Well, not the countries, but independent businesses coming here. So she actually has had a little bit, but probably not at the level you would expect for secretary of state. But there's many other Cabinet posts she would be more than qualified for.

BALDWIN: OK.

Gloria, to you. Let's just talk about Prime Minister Abe, the Japanese prime minister over at Trump Tower, later today, all of this as overseas President Obama is bidding farewell and thanks to one of his closest foreign leader allies, Chancellor Merkel.

Do you think -- just the fact that the Japanese prime minister was on the phone with him last week, flash forward a couple days, this man is on the plane heading to Trump Tower, does that signal nervousness and fear of some of his rhetoric on the trail or is he like let's get going?

BORGER: I think both, actually, but if I had to guess, I would say more the former, because you had the president-elect is now on the record saying that Japan ought to get itself some nukes in order to potentially defend itself. It's a very pacifist country.

And I think that there's a great deal of concern in the country and I think what Abe is doing is getting over here to meet with the president-elect himself and hear where he really is on these issues because they're of great concern to his constituency.

So I think it's probably a smart thing for him to do and also I think it's a smart thing for Donald Trump to do, because as Barack Obama was pointing out in his press conference with Angela Merkel today, he was saying the tone you set is so important, the seriousness of purpose is so important. That was campaigning, this is governing.

And I think it was a message that he sent to Donald Trump. And I think Donald Trump probably heard it from the president in the Oval Office as well. So this will be his first tete-a-tete really. And I bet he will listen to that advice.

BALDWIN: Campaign in poetry, govern in prose.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: We have got to go. I appreciate all your voices. Thank you so much here, again, that meeting with the prime minister happening later at Trump Tower today.

Coming up, one of the many meetings with president-elect Trump, retired Army Lieutenant General Michael Flynn. Who is he? Why is he near the top of that list to become the next administration's national security adviser?

Also, we are getting our first glimpse into what president-elect Trump's immigration plan may actually look like, what sources are telling CNN about talk of some sort of registry system.

And breaking news, we have just learned who plans to challenge Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi for her job over at the House of Representatives. We're back in just a moment.

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BALDWIN: All right, this just into CNN. Leader Nancy Pelosi in the House of Representatives will face a challenger to her job as the top Democrat in the House.

Let's go to Capitol Hill and Manu Raju, who has the news.

Manu, who's the name?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Tim Ryan, Ohio's Democrat, elected in 2002. He's actually a 43-year-old member from Ohio trying to tap into Rust Belt and white working-class voters, people who did not vote for Democrats last week and that the party is struggling to win back.

He just sent a dear colleague letter to Democrats on Capitol Hill urging them to support him. He said that: "Under our current leadership, Democrats have been reduced to our smallest congressional minority since 1929. This should indicate to all of us that keeping our leadership team unchanged will simply lead to more disappointment in future elections."

Now, Brooke, I got a chance to talk to Mr. Ryan earlier today and he stepped up his criticism of Nancy Pelosi.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TIM RYAN (D), OHIO: We're at the lowest number of state and federal officials since Reconstruction. We have the lowest number in our caucus since 1929. And we have lost over 60 seats since 2010.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and you keep getting the same results. So, time to move on, I think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, it will still be very difficult, an uphill climb to knock off Nancy Pelosi. She has deep reservoir of support, particularly with all the money that she has raised for her colleagues.

But there is a lot of angst. I spent a lot of time talking to House Democrats today. Brooke, they want to hear more from Nancy Pelosi about what she will do as the leader. That's one reason why Democrats delayed the leadership elections originally scheduled for today until after Thanksgiving, because they want to hear more from Nancy Pelosi. And it's given room for Tim Ryan to mount a challenge against her -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, Manu, thank you very much.

[15:20:00]

One of the many people meeting with president-elect Trump today, required Lieutenant General Michael Flynn. He is reporting at the top of the president-elect's list to be a national security adviser.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: General, how is it going today?

LT. GEN. MICHAEL FLYNN (RET.), FORMER DIRECTOR, DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY: It's going really well. It's a great transition. And the president-elect is in full control, believe me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: If he is selected, he would the first person on Trump's team with significant experience in America's post-9/11 wars.

Let's talk about this with CNN military analyst retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. He is a former Army commanding general in Europe and in the Seventh Army.

So nice to have you on, as always.

You know Mike Flynn. You know him from when he was at JSOC. Do you think he's qualified for the job? LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good afternoon,

Brooke, first of all.

And, secondly, I would say Mike is a very dedicated and passionate and energetic soldier. He's risen through the ranks in the military intelligence branch. He was a military intelligence staff officer. He provided the intelligence to other commanders. He did very well when I served with him.

We were both in Northern Iraq. He was working for Stan McChrystal as his J-2 when I was commanding the multinational division in Northern Iraq. And he was very good at targeting and going after al Qaeda. So he brings a certain skill set to the table.

He will be challenged in a job like this, I believe, because of the dynamics associated with all matters of national security across the government. He's taken a position as a national security adviser which, by the way, as you know, doesn't have to be confirmed by Congress, where people like Al Haig, Condoleezza Rice, Brent Scowcroft, Colin Powell, Zbigniew Brzezinski, a lot of really heavy hitters who were either operators or strategists, with a very big world view, Mike brings an intelligence background to the table.

But, you know, you would have to pick an NSA that matches or complements the personality and the desires of the commander in chief, Mr. Trump.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you, because you say he does have -- he knows the intelligence. He has that intelligence background. He knows the enemy.

Part of the role of NSA is really being a go-between, right, between a lot of these other figures. Does he have that sort of experience?

HERTLING: Well, that remains to be seen.

But you will have in a National Security Council meeting or a primaries meeting with the president, you will have some pretty strong personalities and some pretty strong egos with a SecState, the SecDef, maybe member other members of Cabinet, the members of the intelligence community all demanding their view to be heard.

The guy or the gal who's the national security adviser in the past has been the balancing act between all of those to bring about matters of national security. So that voice has to be a calming one and it has to take into all considerations from a variety of governmental resources.

You bring a guy with an intelligence background into the job who is very good with at what he has done with tactical intelligence and supporting commanders, I think Mike will be stressed in that kind of environment.

But he will be, if he is Mr. Trump's choice, Mr. Trump will listen to him and hopefully he will be a calming influence and provide an alternative view when all these big egos get in one room. BALDWIN: Just quickly, since I have you, on the James Clapper news

today, director of national intelligence, he announced he is resigning. Apparently, the agency expected it. They say it's not necessarily political. What was your reaction to that?

HERTLING: It's partly political because all Cabinet members and appointees have to submit their resignation when the president leaves. They have to do that. That's a requirement by law.

But Mr. Clapper, General Clapper, has been in government service and in the intelligence community for a very, very long time and he's tired. And I think he also said in his statement that he didn't want to work one day past that transition office.

So I think General Clapper is sending a signal that transitions and naming members of transition teams go way beyond just naming the names. You actually have to get in the organization, form a team, determine what your subordinates look like, get a feel for what is going to happen in that environment or in your particular organization and be ready to go on day one to accept any challenges that come across the desk.

So what I think General Clapper is saying is, I'm out of here on the 20th of January. Somebody better be here to take my place and it better not be a newbie. It better be an individual who has at least had a couple weeks to figure out where the bathroom is and where his closet is to hang his coat.

BALDWIN: Let's hope a little bit more than that.

General Hertling, as always, thank you so much.

HERTLING: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next here, we have about what president-elect Trump's immigration plan may really look like, what sources are telling CNN about this possible registry system.

[15:25:08]

Also, first on CNN, Mitt Romney and Donald Trump meeting this weekend. A source says that Romney is being considered or this will be part of the conversation and he could be considered for a Trump Cabinet potion. More on that in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

A number of Muslim Americans have expressed fears about president- elect Donald Trump because of statements like this that he made on the campaign trail:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States, until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now, Trump later