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Obama and Merkel Meet in Germany; Trump Team Developing Plan to Track Immigrants; Children of Aleppo Struggle to Understand War; Social Divisions Linger in French Suburbs; Japan's Prime Minister Meets with Donald Trump

Aired November 17, 2016 - 15:00:00   ET


HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Tonight, they're among two of the most powerful Western leaders for now. Barack Obama and Angela Merkel

reaffirm their strong relationship as Europe braces for Donald Trump.

Then, a hot button issue in the Trump transition. Immigration. The policy could be taking shape behind the doors of Trump Tower. We'll explore that.

And later as bombs reign down on Aleppo, we'll look at some of the very youngest victims of Syria's relentless civil war.

Plus this hour, fake news strikes again. How Pepsi is fighting a false headline.

Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live at CNN London, and thanks for being with us this hour.


U.S. president Barack Obama's farewell tour of Europe is coming to a close. When he was a candidate back in 2008 Mr. Obama was met with a huge euphoric

crowd for a speech he gave in Berlin. But the mood is much darker this time around. When he took the stage with German Chancellor Angela Merkel

the president suggested that Donald Trump could be in for a rude awakens once he's inaugurated.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He run an extraordinarily unconventional campaign and it resulted in the biggest political upset in

perhaps modern political history. American history. And that means that he now has to transition to governance. And what I said to him was that

what may work in generating enthusiasm or passion during elections may be different than what will work in terms of unifying the country and getting

the trust even of those who didn't support him.


GORANI: All right. The president also spoke about Russia. He advised Trump to stand up to Russia when it violates international norms. That was

a sentiment, by the way, that was echoed by the German chancellor. Listen to her.


ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (Through Translator): I think that for over 70 years we have been able to enjoy peace, to live in peace. Very

much depends on territorial integrity and sovereignty of each and every European country being respected. In view of the European history, the

reverse would be the start of a very bitter road, down a slippery slope and we have to nip this in the bud.


GORANI: All right. And this is really the last time many Europeans are coming to terms with this, that they will see Angela Merkel with Barack

Obama. Next it will be Donald Trump on a stage similar to that one in Berlin and in other capitals.

White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski is traveling with the president. She joins me now live from Berlin.

We know they're having dinner now, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They are. So they've been able to spend a lot of time together and you have to wonder what those

conversations are like behind closed doors. I mean, this is a good-bye of a sense but it's also kind of bracing for the future. And Angela Merkel is

facing elections this coming year as well, and it's been an unexpected past year to say the least.

GORANI: Right. Absolutely. Now do we know what Angela Merkel, maybe what concerns or what questions she's had for Barack Obama, what have you heard

from sources regarding what to expect from a Donald Trump presidency?

KOSINSKI: Yes. I mean, the mood here is anxious, is apprehensive about the future, they're trying to maintain some cautious optimism but President

Obama doesn't really have a lot to lend in that department. I mean, he doesn't have clarity on how Donald Trump's administration will change the

course of action that these nations have been on together. Whether it's the Paris climate agreement, the Iran nuclear deal, how they handle the

refugee crisis, the coalition against ISIS, what changes that will lend.

I mean, it's not as if President Obama can predict that. So certainly they're going to be hashing it out. The way President Obama has presented

it is that, you know, you have to keep working on that path for as long as possible.

But it's interesting, I mean, we've heard a lot less optimism from President Obama on this trip, a lot less reassurance than we have heard

warnings. He's warned the incoming president. We heard some of that in the sound you played before talking to me. And he was basically telling

him, you know, you need to stick to democratic values maintain those and protect them, whether it's freedom of speech, freedom of religion or checks

and balances on the government.

He also he warned voters that you can't just be complacent and just take your life and democracy for granted. As well as a warning to the world,

Hala, that, you know, a false populism or a crude nationalism, if that divides people, it's going to lead to, as he put it, a harsher, meaner,

more troubled world.

GORANI: Michelle Kosinski, thanks very much, in Berlin. She's traveling with the president. Next stop for Barack Obama will be Peru. Thanks very

much for that.

Many questions there for the president, I'm sure, from Angela Merkel, from other officials he's met during this tour. What happens to NATO. We know

that Donald Trump had many things to say about NATO and perhaps the U.S.'s responsibility to protect some NATO allies if they don't pay their bills,

among other topics of discussion.

Let's get the latest on the transition and one of the biggest promises controlling immigration. We heard a lot from Donald Trump on that during

the campaign. The Trump camp is looking at plans to track some immigrants and visitors, according to a source close to the team. Now the source

didn't say which countries would be considered high risks, but critics are already saying, look, this is an attack on Muslims. Certainly you mean

countries which have issues with terrorisms, which are Muslim majority countries. So who might they want to track and why?

The source spoke to CNN justice correspondent Pamela Brown, and she joins us now from Washington with more.

What kind of system, what kind of proposal are they looking at, Pamela?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So this is a proposal that the Trump team has been working on for months and it's being developed to

basically closely track people who want to come into the United States from what are considered high-risk countries. Sort of like entry on paroles.

So the people from these countries deemed high risk would be entering to a database, fingerprinted, and then be required to check in with federal

authorities on their whereabouts.

It's very similar to the NSEERS program that was implemented in the United States after 9/11 which imposed higher scrutiny and tracking of people

coming from Muslim majority countries with the exception of North Korea. That program was ended in 2011 following complaints of racial profiling.

The architect of Trump's immigration plans, Chris Kobach, I spoke to him, he denied that what they're working on would be a Muslim registry, but he

says it would rather -- you know, it'd be a system to keep tabs on people coming from these areas of the world with high terrorist threats.

Regardless of religion, he would not specify, as you pointed out, which countries they're looking at, what they consider high risk, only that it is

a moving target, giving the diffused -- given the diffused ISIS threat.

And he says some majority Muslim countries are not currently on their list. But this is all kind of in the works as we speak and it's drawing fire

particularly from the left with Senator Elizabeth Warren tweeting, just within the last 30 minutes or so, registering and tracking Americans based

on race and religion is idiotic, disgusting and unconstitutional and it's a recruiting bonanza for ISIS. So you can expect criticism to continue as

they tried to figure out what their plan is.

GORANI: And it's interesting because there have been terrorist attacks in the United States in the last several years, but most of them of course

perpetrated by individuals born and living in the United States. The question is then what do you do about countries like France or like Belgium

where you had very -- we had terrible ISIS inspired attacks. Would you then also require citizens from those countries to register and be tracked?

BROWN: Yes. So that's the big question. And that's why I was really pressing, what are the countries that you're looking at, what -- the people

coming to the United States, from which countries will they, you know, be from that you consider high risk because you point out there have been

terrorist attacks in France and in Belgium? They would not specify. It seems like they're still trying to kind of figure that out.

But I know that one thing they're looking at is making it harder for immigrants in general to come into the United States, really requiring more

scrutiny for certain immigrants and so it's something that Donald Trump has really made the centerpiece of his campaign. And at this point I'm being

told that the idea of a ban on Muslims coming to the United States, as we heard Trump talk about on the trail, is something that they are prepared

for, but it's unlikely to happen. Essentially what they're going to do is take these options to Donald Trump once he's officially president in the

White House, and then it's up to him to decide which route to go down.

GORANI: All right. Thanks very much for that, Pamela Brown, live in Washington with the latest on her reporting.

Now let's hear from a Trump supporter on all of this.

CNN political commentator Scottie Nell Hughes joins me now live from Nashville, Tennessee, via Skype.

So, Scottie, let me ask you first about this immigration proposal. Some people have said here we go with this racial, religious profiling, they're

going to be keeping tabs on people, asking them to register. This is all very dark and very dangerous. Do you support this?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, but that's not exactly what it is, Hala. I think this is something that even over in

England, it goes back in 2013 when they talked about putting a security ban on people who were visiting from India, Pakistan and Nigeria. And I don't

know necessarily if that went through. But this is something -- this isn't new. This is something that other countries have looked at at some point,

and it's just basically to know that people who are coming to visit America are coming for good reasons and not to do harm.

And if they want to come and become a U.S. citizen, that's fantastic. But if they want to be part of our community, that's all this is doing. It's

not dark and scary, it's really just making sure that people want to come visit us who don't want to hurt our families.

GORANI: So let's talk about what countries here. Are we talking all countries that have had terrorist attacks? That would include France and

Belgium, but also, I don't know, you could throw in the vast region of Spain. I mean, you could be -- have a very, very long list here of people

coming into the U.S. Visitors and people wishing to emigrate, who would be essentially required to register and be -- and you know, that the

government and authorities will keep tabs on. Is that kind of the idea?

HUGHES: No, and absolutely we would hope that countries like France and Germany and other countries would have enough of a security system in place

that they could police their own so that if someone did visit us from there, that they would be here for good reasons, and not bad. You know,

this is looking at countries that are known to be hotbeds for terrorism. Those in Asia, those in Africa. Those sorts of countries that we know

breeds terrorism and breeds people with an anti-West message.

So it's not across the board. And these are all people who are not U.S. citizens. I think that has to be distinguished. These are not all

Muslims, it's Muslims who are not U.S. citizens are just going to face much more scrutiny to just make sure that they're coming over here for good

reasons and unfortunately we do have some that come over for bad.

GORANI: So this isn't a -- this won't be a question of, for instance, asking someone as they enter the United States if they're Muslim, this

would just be based on their citizenship, the country they're traveling from?

HUGHES: Well, we'll have to see when the official policy comes out. Obviously right now I'm going off with things that were said on the

campaign trail. And there's a difference. So once you're in office and you have to work with the State Department and Congress to make sure that

all lives are -- all laws are abided by, but no, this is truly just as of those people that are visiting from countries known for -- to be a hot bed

of terrorism to go through a certain criteria, to just make sure that their reasons for coming here is kosher.

GORANI: Now, Scottie, CNN broke the news that Mitt Romney, who was one of the fiercest critics of Donald Trump during the campaign, he called him a

con man, a phony, a fraud. And he's going to meet with Donald Trump this weekend and there are suggestions he might be getting some sort of Cabinet


HUGHES: Isn't this amazing? Isn't this a great political season this has been? I mean, even I kind of had to do like a double take when I saw the

headline break.


HUGHES: And then you had also today, you had Governor Haley who was one of Donald Trump's biggest, fiercest critics throughout the campaign season. I

think this is just obviously knowing that they're going to have to work together. Mitt Romney is a very good, strong political figure within the

Republican Party. And this is just Donald Trump reaching out an arm, getting to know folks, getting to know who he works with as he continues to

build his administration. Typical, I think this goes on with most transition teams, and I think this just shows that, you know, they're

trying to get over the harshness of the past campaign season in order to move our country forward.

GORANI: Well, I'm going to say, if everybody could kiss and make up like politicians kiss and make-up, we'd all be I think a lot happier perhaps in

our personal lives.

But let me ask you a little bit about this and I've asked you this before, here we go again with names that are essentially more Republican

establishment than most names that have served in politics. Mitt Romney, Nikki Haley, we're talking about governors that have been around for a long

time that embody the GOP and its establishment. This is nowhere near draining the swamp if they end up getting -- or Cabinet jobs or jobs in the

sort of like new Trump administration.

HUGHES: Hala, I actually agree with you on that one. That's why I'm very reserved right now until I see that official list come out. And at this

point I think Donald Trump is just -- President-elect Trump is just trying to look at all options and see who works best, but you still do have some

very much grassroots activists as we talked about with Steve Bannon now in the White House, countered by Reince Priebus, the chairman of the RNC.

I think Mr. Trump is looking for a good, healthy, balanced of both because one thing that does -- if you have -- there are such thing as good

politicians. I know that's hard to -- that's kind of an oxymoron in some people's vocabulary. And I think if Mr. Trump can recruit those good

politicians in, that brings the experience and the experience that he's done this before, I think that just only makes the team even stronger.

GORANI: All right. We'll see how that all shakes out. Hopefully we'll get some announcement soon. Scottie Nell Hughes, thanks very much.

Joining us from Nashville, Tennessee.

Well, Mexico is trying to reassure the millions of immigrants who live in the United States. Now you'll recall President-elect Donald Trump once

promised to deport millions of illegal Mexican immigrants, immigrants labeling some of them rapists and criminals. Now Mexico's Foreign Ministry

has released a video trying to calm and soothe some of those fears.


CLAUDIA RUIZ MASSIEU, MEXICAN FOREIGN SECRETARY (Through Translator): Fellow countrymen, these are times of incertitude. Be calm, don't fall

into provocation, and don't be fooled.

The government of Pena Nieto and the Mexican people are with you. We want to inform you on the possible immigration actions and in regards to your

belongings that might be affected starting February. We are going to get this information to you and deliver services to you wherever you might be.


GORANI: Still to come tonight, too young to even know peace. The most innocent victims of the war in Aleppo.

And another high-profile robbery in Paris.

All that and much more when THE WORLD RIGHT NOW continues.


GORANI: To Syria, where residents say bombs are falling like rain in eastern parts of Aleppo. On the third consecutive day of strikes,

activists say at least 21 people were killed, dozens injured, and many more remained trapped or under the rubble.

The Syrian government resumed airstrikes after a three-week lull, and this video gives a hint of just how widespread the devastation is. Of course we

can't independently verify these images but we see some of what looks like the aftermath of more aerial bombardments. Many families are struggling to

find food, medical care is a disaster. Only a handful of doctors for hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Will Ripley is following that story in Istanbul -- Will.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hala, we just received an update from Syrian activist who now claimed that the number of people

killed just today has jumped from 21 to 45 in East Aleppo and the surrounding countryside. That would put the number of people killed since

this wave of airstrikes began three days ago to around 140 which means that this particular assault is on track if this amount of deaths continues

to outpace the previous bombing blitz that lasted for a month and killed 500 people including just 96 children in one week, and that has a lot of

parents in East Aleppo growing increasingly fearful and desperate.


RIPLEY (voice-over): The children of East Aleppo are too young to remember life before this. Life before the planes, dropping bombs on their homes,

hospitals, schools. Too young to understand why anyone would do this. How anyone could do this.

The girl under the red blanket was too young to die. She was just one of the children killed Wednesday. One of dozens of people killed on day two

of the Syrian regime's latest aerial assault on the rebel-held city.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today Aleppo has suffered a very bloody day.

RIPLEY: Mohammad Edel (PH) is a teacher about to become a father. His wife is 7 months pregnant. It's a boy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to be a daddy. I'm going to have a baby. So I'm afraid that my wife die under -- when she's giving birth.

RIPLEY: Like most expecting moms in East Aleppo, she suffers from malnutrition. Her doctor has no prenatal vitamins to prescribe. The

pharmacies, like the markets, are nearly empty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The few things which are available in very little amounts are super expensive.

RIPLEY: Every parent wants the best for their children but in East Aleppo, even the basics are out of reach. One can of baby formula costs $20.

Twenty times the daily income of some families.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A baby girl died because of -- because there's no healthy food for her.

RIPLEY: Monther Ataki (PH) is an activist. He sees far too many children, far too young to starve. He's grateful his 4-month-old son is still


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's so tough. When you're looking to your son and just pray to not get sick because if he gets sick, you'll never find

medicine for him.

RIPLEY (on camera): Are you more worried about your son getting hit with a bomb? Are you worried about him running out of food or getting sick?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not getting him out of the house at all. I'm just hiding him in the safest room.

RIPLEY (voice-over): But even the safest rooms cannot withstand the most powerful bombs being dropped on East Aleppo. These children are too young

to know what it really feels like to be safe.


RIPLEY: It is heartbreaking to speak with these parents who, they only have a couple of hours of electricity every day. Often they're using

battery power just to turn on the lights so they can do a Skype interview. But the reason why they're doing it, Hala, is because they really feel that

the international community has forgotten about them. The rest of the world is focused on the United States, the presidential transition, and

frankly East Aleppo is not part of the conversation, in their view.

And so they feel like they are facing this onslaught all alone and they don't know what's going to happen next. They don't know if the Syrian

regime will surround East Aleppo and essentially try to starve them out as this bombardment continues. It's a tactic we've seen them used in the

past. But they're terrified for themselves and most importantly terrified for their children.

GORANI: Right. And their unborn children in some cases. Thanks very much, Will Ripley in Istanbul.

All right. It looks like there was somewhat of a close call in Kosovo. Police there say they thwarted a terror plot hatched by ISIS ringleaders,

they say, in Syria. They say one of the intended targets was Israel's national football team during their match with Albania last weekend. 19

people were arrested in raids the week before the match. 18 Kosovo nationals and one Macedonian.

Authorities also seized weapons, explosives, and some extremist materials tied to the alleged plot. One suspect has since been released, 18 are

still being questioned. Coming to us from authorities there in Kosovo.

Well, to the French capital now, and you'll remember what happened to Kim Kardashian there, the robbery that she was a victim of. There's been

another assault involving a high-profile actress. The Paris prosecutor says Bollywood star Mallika Sherawat was beaten and tear gassed by three

masked men in the hallway of her apartment building Friday night. The motive is still unknown. It happened of course less than six weeks after

Kim Kardashian was tied up and robbed in a luxury hotel about four kilometers away.

Now she, Kardashian, lost an estimated $10 million worth of jewelry that night. Police cannot yet say if there is any link between the incidents.

Ahead of next year's presidential election and staying in France, attention is turning towards question of race and opportunity. We are very far from

the glitzy world of Kim Kardashian's private hotel here. In the outer suburbs of Paris, people often feel disadvantaged and forgotten.

Our Melissa Bell spoke with residents of one particular suburb called (INAUDIBLE).


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): When you hear Sachel, you hear about the riots that happened years ago, but we don't speak about anything

else in the media.

MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Riots in 2005, 2007, and 2014 that have left one image of Sachel and of so many other French

banlieue, those poor, usually remote urban suburbs that are so often forgotten.

This apartment block in Sachel has been Yusuf (INAUDIBLE)'s home all his life. Ever since he congratulated in April, he's been trying and failing

to get a job in marketing. He has no way of knowing what part either his name or the name of his suburb just played.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): If a recruiter reads Sachel, and he says a bad image of the town, and he says to himself, I'm not going to

recruit him because he's from Sachel, I won't know that. I won't know why I wasn't selected.

BELL: Yusuf sends CV's from this flat he shares with his mother every day. Sometimes he gets a rejection letter, mostly, though, he hears nothing.

One thing he is sure of is that he is on the outside of the system he so desperately wants to join.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): A young guy from the 16th (INAUDIBLE) in Paris whose parents are from (INAUDIBLE), he's going to

benefit from their networks. They also have the finances for a good school. All of that matters.

BELL (on camera): Now Yusuf is not alone in believing that discrimination is behind his inability to find a job, but it's almost impossible to prove

and that's because here in France there simply are no statistics on either ethnicity or race. One reason study has suggested, though, that France's

GDP could rise by nearly 7 percent over the course of the next 20 years if it were to widen access to the workplace. That's one thing a company just

behind this door is trying to do.

(Voice-over): The idea is to tap into the spirit of enterprise coming out of the banlieue, and plenty of people are trying to make a difference.

Here at Mozaik they work hard to help place young people from remote tower blocks into work. And they're getting great feedback.

SAID HAMMOUCHE, CEO, MOZAIK RH (Through Translator): It's true that when you find a candidate who may be from a less privileged background and he's

is recruited by an employer that generates diversity and diversity means more creativity, that's a performance, more mobility. France is struggling

to transform itself but in order to transform itself it needs to realize there's a problem. It's clear there are people today who believed

discrimination does not exist and they're in denial.

BELL: The question of opportunity in the banlieue and youth unemployment are proving to be central issues in the upcoming French election. The

National Front's Marie Le Pen says the problem has nothing to do with discrimination.

MARIE LE PEN, LEADER, PEOPLE'S NATIONAL FRONT (Through Translator): There are a lot of young people in France at the moment who can't find work.

They're not just in the banlieue. They are also in the countryside. And it has nothing to do with their names, it's the fact that the economy is


BELL: Zora (PH) is another child of the banlieue who has broken through the disadvantages to land an office job in Paris. And although it took her

months to get it, she now thinks that her background is a help rather than a hindrance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (Through Translator): It has made me stronger, more combative than others. I have to make more of an effort so when I work, I

work harder than other people. Yes, my name is Zora, I love my name, there is a story behind my name. That's life. It's diversity and I believe

everyone has a talent.

BELL: It's the message that Zora hopes one day to bring back to the banlieue where the wait for so many continues.

Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.


GORANI: Still ahead on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW we'll introduce you to a man known as the prediction professor. He predicted a Trump win when many

didn't but say there's a very good chance he'll be impeached. We'll be right back.


GORANI: Welcome back.

U.S. President Barack Obama says he hopes Donald Trump won't not cut deals with Russia that leave the American people vulnerable. He was speaking in

Berlin today on the last stop of his European tour as president. Mr. Obama called Chancellor Angela Merkel his greatest international ally.

Also among the stories we're following, U.S. President-elect Donald Trump's transition team has wrapped up its first daily conference call briefing the

media on plans moving forward. A spokesman outlined some of the meetings Trump is having including his first face-to-face talk with a world leader,

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe later on Thursday.

And also this just in, a battle for the leadership of the Democrats in the House of Representatives is underway. Ohio's Tim Ryan is going to

challenge the House veteran Nancy Pelosi saying more voices are needed at the Democratic leadership table.

Now Donald Trump is about to have his first face-to-face meeting with a world leader since becoming president. The Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo

Abe, as we've been discussing, he is -- you see him there -- he's on his way to New York.

CNN's Andrew Stevens tells us why Mr. Abe is so keen to get a first word with the incoming president.


ANDREW STEVENS, CNN ASIA-PACIFIC EDITOR (voice-over): Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is making every attempt to preserve Japan's relationship with

its most important political, diplomatic, and trading partner, the United States. Normally a Japanese leader would wait for the inauguration of a

new U.S. president before seeking a meeting, but these are not normal times.

SHINZO ABE, JAPANESE PRIME MINISTER (Through Translator): The Japan-U.S. align is the access of Japan's diplomacy and security. The alliance is

only alive if there is trust between us.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: I will get rid of those tariffs in Japan.

STEVENS: Tokyo has been rocked by Donald Trump's explosive comments on the campaign trail raising fears that the new administration could turn its

back on the alliance. Trump has hinted he could withdraw U.S. troops from Japan unless it paid a bigger share of their upkeep suggested that Asian

countries could provide their own nuclear defense against North Korea.

TRUMP: North Korea has nukes, Japan has a problem with that. I mean, they have a big problem with that. Maybe they would in fact be better off if

they defend themselves from North Korea. Maybe it would be better off --


TRUMP: Including with nukes. Yes.

STEVENS: And then there is Trump's opposition to global trade deals including the President Obama-led Transpacific Partnership which has had

the wholehearted support of Mr. Abe.

TRUMP: I'll take jobs back from Japan and every other country that's killing us. I'll bring the jobs back.

STEVENS: But Abe advisers say Tokyo is looking beyond what they described as campaign rhetoric.

TOMOHIKO TANIGUCHI, SPECIAL ADVISER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: We're looking at the future and no matter what any candidate says during the campaign.

Today is the first day of the rest of his administration.

STEVENS: The first step of that first day for Japan to build a working relationship. Abe has already praised what he described as Trump's, quote,

"extraordinary talents as a businessman."

TANIGUCHI: This is going to be very much a classic ice breaking opportunity for both of these people.

STEVENS: Analysts say don't expect any key decisions to come from this meeting but with regional tensions on the rise from North Korea's nuclear

program, to China's expansion into the South China Sea, it is likely to provide the first indication of what Donald Trump's Asia strategy will look


The world is watching.

Andrew Stevens, CNN.


GORANI: Donald Trump's victory took many people by surprise at home and around the world. But one political historian predicted Trump would defeat

Hillary Clinton on November 8th. Professor Allan Lichtman of American University joins me now from Washington.

First of all, Professor, let me share with people what you said six days before the election.


ALLAN LICHTMAN, DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: I have 13 key factors developed by looking at every American presidential election

from 1860 to 1980. I developed it in '81.

And the key is basically gauged the strength and performance of the party holding the White House, the Democrats. And if six or more of the keys go

against that party, they are predicted losers. And right now very, very narrowly, by the skin of their teeth there are six keys out against the

incumbent Democrats, so they are predicted losers.


GORANI: The Democrats are predicted losers. The Democrats did lose on November 8th, so you were one of the few people presumably not too

surprised that day.

LICHTMAN: That's right and my secret is to get the polls, to get the pundits, pay no attention to the twists and turns of campaign events, look

at pattern of history as gauged by the keys which examine the strength and performance of the party holding the White House and there were many

elements that indicated the vulnerability of the Democrats that had nothing to do with anything that the media spent millions of words talking about.

Things like the lack of domestic policy accomplishment in the second term. The lack of a big splashy foreign policy success. Like the dispatch of bin

Laden in the first term. A pasting in the midterm elections of 2014. A contentious nomination struggle. The fact that the sitting president

couldn't run again. These and other indicators which tapped into the deep structure of what really drive election results pointed to this Democratic


GORANI: So this is a series of 13 true or false statements. But let me ask you about traditional polling, because not just for this election, but

as you know for Brexit, for the U.K. general election, pretty much all the polls were wrong. Some of them showed perhaps a closer race, but really in

their majority, the polls, the polling companies, got it wrong.

LICHTMAN: That's what --

GORANI: What's going on with traditional -- yes. But I mean, it hasn't always been the case. Polls were pretty much usually a pretty reliable

indicator of Election Day, but now it seems they were wildly inaccurate. What has been going on in the last few years?

LICHTMAN: Well, they've always been somewhat -- in 2012 they did not portend the big Obama victory. They showed basically that the contest was

even between Romney and Obama. Here's the problem with the polls. Polls are not predictors. They are abused and misused as predictors. They're

snapshots. And there's no reality against which to check a poll because the votes haven't been counted yet and you don't know --


GORANI: But if you have 50 -- sorry to jump in, if you 50 snapshots in a row, and every snapshot indicates one outcome, how can -- I mean, just --

what I mean is, at that point do you never poll again? Do we just throw polls out the window and forget that a poll could ever be an indicator for

the future? How do we use them?

LICHTMAN: I think you should throw polls out the window because they not only can be very inaccurate and systematically wrong, not just randomly

wrong as they were this time, but they promote lazy, superficial journalism. You don't even have to get out of bed in the morning to write

a story about the polls and to portray misleadingly elections as though they were horse races with candidates sprinting ahead and falling behind

every day and the pollsters keeping score.

And then the pundits commenting about it. This whole industry that thrives and makes money on misleading horse race coverage and misses all the deeper

forces that drive elections. Does anyone remember one word the pundits said this year?

GORANI: Well, we remember those that didn't turn out to be true for sure and it is the case that polls were probably overused in the sense that many

people believe they were predictors more than they should have as you say, but we hindsight is 20/20.

Let me ask you a little bit about, though, your next prediction, which is not a scientific one, which is that you believe Trump will be impeached.

How do you -- how do you reach that conclusion?

LICHTMAN: As you say it's just speculation out of my gut, but I've got good reasons.


LICHTMAN: One, one of the Lichtman rules of politics is, what you see is what you get. Candidates don't change. It's like you marry someone, you

think you're going to change your spouse, forget it, it doesn't happen.


LICHTMAN: Donald Trump throughout his career has played fast and loose with the law. We know he ran an illegal charity, unregistered in New York.

We know he made an illegal campaign contribution out of that charity. The strong reason to believe that he used the charity to settle personal

business debts. He faces a civil racketeering lawsuit on Trump University. A dozen women have accused him of sexual harassment or --

GORANI: But he's not been convicted of anything. I mean this is --


GORANI: These are all accusations and ongoing --

LICHTMAN: No, no, but not accusations. No, no. He has been convicted of making the illegal campaign contribution. He had to pay a fine to the IRS.

He has admitted that he did not register his charity and he stopped raising funds in New York.

The documentation is very strong and unrefuted that he settled personal business debts, as is the documentation very strong that he broke the Cuban

embargo at a time when that was a serious crime.

GORANI: So let's --

LICHTMAN: You don't have to be convicted in a court of law to have analysis and opinions about what a candidate has done in his life.

GORANI: But if you look at -- of course as you know, both Houses of Congress are controlled by the GOP, so in other words, you know, you have

to have the political will to do anything.

LICHTMAN: Absolutely.

GORANI: So therefore, how do you -- how does your gut feeling sort of square off with that reality, that political reality on Capitol Hill?

LICHTMAN: Second part of my analysis. Donald Trump is a wild card. He is uncontrollable. Republicans love control. They would much prefer to have

Donald -- rather than Donald Trump, to have Mike Pence as president, the predictable, controllable, down the line Christian conservative Republican.

And one other thing that's happened since. Donald Trump has turned his business over to his children which means it's still in the family. He

wants to get top security clearances for them.

We don't know what his ties are because he hasn't released any tax returns to Russia and China. We could be heading for a huge train wreck between

national security and the Trump private business interests and that would anger even Republicans.

GORANI: All right, thank you very much, Professor Allan Lichtman of American University. OK, one of the few people who saw this Trump victory

coming. Thanks for joining us on CNN.

LICHTMAN: Thank you. Great interview.

GORANI: We appreciate it.

Much of how Donald Trump will handle foreign policy remains a mystery, but could global warming help leave relations with China a little bit frostier?

A Beijing delegate has hit back at Trump's 2012 claim that climate change is a Chinese hoax. You remember that one. Something very much on the

minds of world leaders in Morocco right now.

Isa Soares is in Marrakech.


ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Trump is not a name leaders want to discuss here, but among the diplomacy and the smiles, they are

quietly sweating over his skepticism on climate change and there's no avoiding it.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you comment on the election of President-elect Trump in the United States?

BAN KI-MOON, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: I'm sure that he will understand this, he will listen and that he will evaluate his campaign remarks.

SOARES: The fear here is that the president-elect could undo the climate change agreement signed by nearly 200 countries last year in Paris.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are a little bit worried, but we are going to let -- the system of legislation -- may not allow him to undo all the gains from

the successful Paris agreement.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's momentum here with or without the U.S.

SOARES: They have reason to worry. The president-elect has called climate change a hoax, created by and for the Chinese, in order to make U.S.

manufacturing non-competitive. He's even hinted at cancelling the Paris agreement and reviving the U.S. coal and gas industry.

(On camera): In legal terms, U.S. President-elect Trump could not pull out of the Paris agreement. He would have to trigger Article 28. That's the

provision within the actual agreement and that could take as many as four years by which point his term will have ended. But there's a much quicker

and faster way if he does want out. And that's simply to ignore the commitments set in place by U.S. President Barack Obama.

(Voice-over): U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry wants to avoid this at all costs.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: No one has a right to make decisions that affect billions of people based on solely ideology or without proper input.

SOARES: Europe, too, is pushing for this, sounding alarm bells and calling on Trump to stick to the accord.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need the United States on board and we will do any effort to have them on board and to convince them that this is a win-win


SOARES: But whilst many at this conference are optimistic the president- elect will change his mind, some of his supporters here are hoping he doesn't budge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We stand in solidarity with President-elect Trump and this is going to be the first step toward doing it. This is our shredding

of the documents.

SOARES: Isa Soares, CNN, Marrakech, Morocco.


GORANI: We have people in Washington who's just getting started. Today we learned that the U.S. director of National Intelligence has submitted his

resignation. James Clapper says he has 64 days left in the post. His resignation not a huge surprise. He's apparently been telling people for

months that he had days to go until his retirement. Today Clapper told a U.S. committee that the U.S. is facing the most diverse array of threats he

has ever seen, but apparently he said he felt quite good about the fact he was stepping down.

Hillary Clinton has made her first public speech since conceding the election to Donald Trump. She was emotional about it. She addressed

supporters at the Children's Defense Fund. She acknowledged that she was - - she experienced her painful loss and had this to say.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now I will admit that coming here tonight wasn't the easiest thing for me. There have been a few

times this past week when all I wanted to do was just to curl up with a good book or our dogs and never leave the house again.

I know that over the past week a lot of people have asked themselves whether America is the country we thought it was. The divisions laid bare

by this election run deep. Please listen to me when I say this. America is worth it. Our children are worth it. Believe in our country. Fight

for our values and never ever give up.


GORANI: The Children's Defense Fund has personal significance for Clinton. She worked there as an intern at the very start of her career.

A lot more to come on the program. Pepsi is at the center of a controversy over something that never actually happened. Talk about fake news stories.

We'll be right back.


GORANI: It's a name normally associated with cool, refreshing drinks. But now Pepsi is in hot water with some Trump supporters. They are threatening

to boycott the brand over a comment that was never made, that was later proved to be fake. An online story claimed Pepsi's CEO told Trump fans to

take their business elsewhere.

So it's not just a single fake story, it doubled up with more fake news about the stock price for PepsiCo?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: That's right. It becomes a whole network of fake stories. You know, there's been a lot of

conversation I think about so-called fake news. And what I mean by that they're not stories that are misleading or partisan. I mean just made-up

news. And this is an example of that.

The CEO of Pepsi never said that Trump supporters should take their business elsewhere. But dozens of fake but real-looking Web sites did

report that. They were shared widely on Facebook and Twitter. And it became this sort of controversy really out of nothing. When in reality the

CEO of Pepsi spoke at a "New York Times," conference said that some of her employees were very upset about Trump's election.

They were scared, they were nervous, they were anxious, but she congratulated President-elect Trump on his victory and never said anything

about Trump supporters taking their business elsewhere.

GORANI: But do we know why they took aim at Pepsi in particular if she didn't say these things?

STELTER: You know, I think what happens to these cases sometimes is there is one grain of truth, so in this case the CEO was saying that some of her

employees were upset. They take one grain of truth, then these fake news sites build a mountain of lies all on top of that one single grain.

Now I personally do wonder if the fact that the CEO is a minority and is a woman has something to do with it.

We've seen Trump supporters, fringe and anti, you know, women, Trump supporters on Twitter and Facebook oftentimes target famous women, whether

that's Megyn Kelly or new other news anchors or other CEOs. You know, it's hard to say how these things develop, though. All I know for sure, Hala,

if I had hair, I'd be pulling it out because these fake stories continue to spread more and more and more.


STELTER: And there's a lot more Facebook and Twitter could be doing about it.

GORANI: Right. And there -- it's frustrating for people whose jobs are based on facts and who actually have to, you know, base their reporting on

fact and not just make stuff up.


GORANI: Let's talk -- you mentioned Megyn Kelly. Let's talk about here. She's on a book tour right now. She talked about some of the threats

directed at her in the aftermath of that first debate. Let's listen to what she told Anderson Cooper.


MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: So Michael Cohen, who is Trump's top lawyer, and an executive vice president with the Trump Organization had re-tweeted

"let's gut her" about me at a time when the threat level was very high, which he knew, and Bill Shine, an executive vice president of FOX, called

him up to say, you've got to stop this. Like we understand you're angry, but this is -- you know, she's got three kids, she's walking around New

York, really. And he didn't much care. And what Bill Shine said to Michael Cohen was, let me put it to you in terms you can understand. If

Megyn Kelly gets killed, it's not going to help your candidate.


GORANI: So, Brian, it sounds like they were really taking this seriously. That they believe there were physical or threats -- physical threats

against her. What did they do? What did FOX do about this at the time?

STELTER: Well, for one, Kelly travelled with security guards for many, many months. FOX did take the threat seriously. In fact when journalists

like myself tried to write about those threats, we were asked by FOX not to, and that's a common practice in journalism and other professions. When

someone is facing those kinds of security concerns, the last thing you want to do is draw more attention to it. So in the case of Kelly, she did not

talk about this at the time, did not talk about it during the election, only talked about it afterwards, after the election.

GORANI: OK. Brian Stelter, thanks very much. Our senior media correspondent in New York with the latest on that.

And don't forget, you can get our news, interviews, analysis on our Facebook page, We'll be right back, stay with



GORANI: Casablanca has always been Morocco's economics capital as we continue our "On Morocco" series. (INAUDIBLE) takes a look at how the

famous city is opening its doors to international business.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For many people, the city of Casablanca is forever associated with one thing, the iconic 1942 movie. The Moroccan government

is trying to forge a new identity as a major hub of international commerce, getting foreign companies to invest in Morocco and outsource their business

there is a key part of that plan.

(INAUDIBLE) works for the company that manages (INAUDIBLE) Shore, one of the biggest and most developed business parks in all of North Africa.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was created as part of the emergence plan. This plan started in early 2000. Part of this plan was to create this park,

which is dedicated to a business park for companies to come and outsource whatever they want to outsource in this country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The park has more than 300,000 square meters of office space and more than 60 companies and 18,000 employees work there

every day. Tech giants like Dell, IBM, and Hewitt-Packard already there. And Morocco is confident that a variety of incentives will bring more big

names their way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So for example, they offered a lower tax ceiling, and they also give subsidies for phone call training.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casablanca is looking to use everything at its disposal to try to attract business people. And its vibrant culture has

quickly become a major asset.

Salvador Sanchez and his business partner co-own one of the restaurants in the city that cater to an after-work crowd.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People work very hard in Casablanca. It's a very big city, very big city. The economical heart of Morocco so when they can come

and have a drink and they have places like us where we try to make them feel comfortable and we have different spaces where they can relax

themselves or either receive people to talk about business.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casablanca is famous for its food and nightlife, making it a destination city. But every destination still needs a place

for its visitors to stay. And the hotel industry is trying to cater their hospitality to the business people flooding in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Business travelers, I think one of the main point of localization. For example, the Sofitel Casablanca, she's well situated in

the center of the city. Nearby all of the name center of the interest to be in a relaxing atmosphere or a friendly atmosphere, even to sign a

contract is not necessary to be in a business meeting room. You can sign a contract even drinking a cocktail, you know?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The city is undergoing a modern renaissance and driving foreign investment is the name of the game. Soon the name

Casablanca could get world famous all over again for a whole new set of reasons.



GORANI: All right, I'm Hala Gorani. This is has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. I'll see you tomorrow, same place, same time. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is



PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the Dow bounces back, but only just. I don't want you to expect any records for me today. Trading has come to an

end on Wall Street. It's Thursday, November 17th.

Tonight Mr. Trump will see you now. Japan's prime minister is on his way to Trump Tower. No transition needed at the Federal Reserve.