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Foreign Dictators Cheer Trump Presidency; Romney to Meet with Trump this Weekend; Trump's Daughter, Her Husband Attend Shinzo Abe Meeting with Him. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired November 18, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump's first face-to- face meeting with a foreign leader is in the books after sitting down the Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. And while much of the world has been shocked, petrified by Trump's election, many, many, more than half the country, are delighted.

And according to this editorial in the "Washington Post," by my colleague, Fareed Zakaria, a number of foreign leaders, who are cheering Trump, have something in common. Fareed writes, quote, "What unifies Trumps foreign admirers is idea that the existing global order is rotten and should be torn down."

So, Fareed Zakaria is with me, host of "Fareed Zakaria, GPS."

Nice to see you.

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA, GPS: Pleasure.

BALDWIN: You talk about a couple leaders around the world, Duterte from the Philippines. Apparently, what they have in common is, quote, "We both swear, we are the same." Assad called Trump a "national ally." And Mugabe in Zimbabwe says he is hopeful.

They're celebrating. But these are not leaders that the American people would cheer for.

ZAKARIA: It's an odd situation where our allies are very concerned. You heard very concerned voices coming out of Germany and France and Italy and Britain. And the people who are cheering are a bunch of dictators who think they've found a natural ally, which might not prove to be true. But the places in Europe that are cheering are these right-wing populous forces that want to destroy the European Union. In you look, it's the far-right parties in France, Germany, northern Europe, the guy in Hungary, the prime minister who says I want to create an illiberal state in hungry. All of them are pro- Russian because they see Russia as being the most actively -- the active state that is the most powerful state that is actively trying to destroy the existing global order.

One thing I hope we'll clarify is these are not his buddies. These are not his compatriots. His agenda isn't to tear down the global order the United States set up in 1945, '46, '47 after World War II, after the Great Depression, which has helped the United States enormously, which has kept the United States at the center of the world and made the United States the most dynamic economy in the world. So, I hope Trump will convey in various ways, calls, actions, appointments, that he believes in the American order that Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower built after World War II.

BALDWIN: I was fascinated yesterday about the juxtaposition of President Obama in Berlin and his gratitude and farewell to his dear friend Angela Merkel and fast forward to Trump Tower and Shinzo Abe, the prime minister of Japan, as the first word leader that flies in to meet with Mr. Trump. What do you make of the fact that he jumped on a plane so quickly and headed to Manhattan to meet with him? Is that nerves or eagerness? Will we see more of that?

ZAKARIA: I think it speaks to that the president of the United States has enormous power just in terms of the power of his words. So, remember that Trump said maybe the Japanese should get nuclear weapons, why are we protecting them, let them protect themselves? That would set off a chain of events in Japanese domestic politics. Japan has constitutionally that foresworn the idea that it would have any kind of offensive arm. It would tear Japan apart internally, but it would set a series of chain reactions over Asia where they remember Japan as the aggressor in World War II. If Japan has nuclear weapons, it would you would end up with a chain reaction all across Asia, too.

BALDWIN: But you have the Trump aide saying, "Don't take everything in the campaign literally."

ZAKARIA: That's the king. I think it was important enough for Prime Minister Abe, took a 12-hour flight from Tokyo to make sure those words were not --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Were not literal.

[14:35:13] ZAKARIA: Were not literal. And I think that is probably the more important reason in just getting to know Trump. That could have happened normally. But I think for Japan, there are a few countries concerned about what Trump has said. They're wondering, are we meant to take this -- play this game. Are you meant to take it seriously or literally?

BALDWIN: Right.

ZAKARIA: And how do you make the distinction?

BALDWIN: It will be interesting how many foreign leaders take that multi-hour flight to Trump Tower to figure this out.

Fareed Zakaria, as always, thank you.

Make sure you watch Fareed Sunday mornings, 10:00 a.m. and at 1:00 p.m. eastern, here on CNN.

Thanks. Next, he called him a phony and a fraud but, this weekend, Mitt Romney

is set to meet with Donald Trump face to face in New Jersey. What Governor Romney is likely to talk about with the president-elect? Might he consider a cabinet position? We'll explore that.

We'll be right back.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[14:40:29] MITT ROMNEY, (R), FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR & FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mitt was a disaster as a candidate.

ROMNEY: He's playing the members of the American public for suckers.

TRUMP: Romney let us win. He was a very poor campaigner.

ROMNEY: He gets a free ride to the White House and all we get is a lousy hat.

TRUMP: Romney choked like a dog. He choked. He went --

(LAUGHTER)

ROMNEY: His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University.

TRUMP: I have a lot of friends. No, I have a lot of friends. By the way, Mitt Romney is not one of them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Joining me more to talk about all of this, Ari Fleischer, the former press secretary for George W. Bush.

We love having you through. Nice to see you.

ARI FLEISCHER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: First of all, from the Trump perspective, do you think this is a head fake or a genuine interest?

FLEISCHER: It may be a genuine interest to talk to him and do that olive branch reach out president for all people, but I'd be shocked if it's real interest in having him join the cabinet.

BALDWIN: Why?

FLEISCHER: When someone excoriates you, it's not appropriate. You're not a good fit. Why pretend? Why try? I understand bygones will be bygones, but this went too far.

BALDWIN: On the flip side, why would Governor Romney want to travel to New Jersey to meet with Donald Trump?

FLEISCHER: Under the assumption he wants advice, he wants to hear my thinking, which would be appropriate reaching out of President-elect Trump. I hope that's what it is. But to be considered for the cabinet? Why would Mitt Romney want to serve after the things he said about President Trump?

BALDWIN: That's my question for you. I don't know if this is genuine. But if he's being considered for secretary of state?

FLEISCHER: Well, I can't imagine that.

BALDWIN: It's all bluster.

FLEISCHER: It's a mischievous piece to me. It's a day after Ted Cruz came in for attorney general. And then they announced somebody else. I wouldn't be surprised if 24 hours after Mitt Romney comes in, they announce who the secretary of state is. And I don't think it will be Mitt Romney.

BALDWIN: What do you think of -- then you have these three picks, Mike Flynn, Mike Pompeo, Jeff Sessions. These are the hardline, true core Trump supporters.

FLEISCHER: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Do you think that, then, is a sign of the picks to come?

FLEISCHER: Frankly, I think that is appropriate.

BALDWIN: Why?

FLEISCHER: The president should have a team that full heartedly and proudly supports the president and what the president is doing. And that's who these people are. I understand there should be a mix of people, and some may not be the full thoroughbreds, others are, but in the national security apparatus, where Donald Trump said he would be different from his predecessors, he needs people who see it his way. And I think it's appropriate to have those people there.

BALDWIN: I think perspective is important. There has been criticism over the timeline of these selections.

And I wanted to go back eight years, and I believe it was when then Senator Barack Obama won, the election was November 4th. I think his first pick, Tim Geithner, was 20 days later. Perspective on that, number one.

Number, two David Axelrod, tweeted, on the Obama team, "We hadn't made any major appointments at this point in 2008. I don't remember being criticized for it."

What do you make of the criticisms? Also, what do you make of the leaks?

FLEISCHER: Well, all of it criticism. It drives me crazy to see stories that say they're in disarray. What did they do, go from disarray to being inter-ray in 24 hours?

BALDWIN: Buffoonery, knife fight, "Game of Thrones." This is what CNN is hearing from insiders on the transition team.

FLEISCHER: And head writers that just go too far. All transitions have personnel issues. All transitions have their problems.

We had the advantage when Bush won in 2000. Ironically, the Florida recount covered up a lot of things we went through because nobody was paying attention to the transition. And we were going through personnel issues and weeding lists down but everybody had their eyes on Florida, so we could make mistakes, do things, vet people while nobody was watching us. Now that they're watching everything, my beef with the press is any time somebody goes on a scale of one to 10, from five to six, the media start screaming, "They're heading to 10, they're heading to 10, disarray." They're not in disarray.

BALDWIN: I remember talking about transitions and they're messy no matter what. I hear you.

Name floated out for press secretary as someone who had the role, Laura Ingraham. Thoughts?

FLEISCHER: Yeah. Fascinating selection he has to make. He has to decide, does he want to send a combative signal to the press and bring in somebody who will fight with them all the time, which there are advantages to doing that. On the other hand, Laura doesn't know Candidate Trump's position as well as other people in the inside of the campaign. She doesn't know what makes him tick and she's not familiar with the people who brought Donald Trump into this position the way the insiders are. You can go with the insiders. The insiders have a good relationship with the press, not as combative, and they know Trump. They know what makes him tick. And they know the insiders they'll have to relate to. So, it's an insider/outsider choice. Does he want to fight with the press and send that signal or work more accommodatingly with the press at least through his office of the press secretary. It will be a window into what Donald Trump wants to do.

[14:45:33] BALDWIN: Last question, words matter, tone matters, visuals matter. During the "60 Minutes" interview we watched on Sunday with Mr. Trump and his whole family, there they were in Trump Tower. Critics called Trump the "Gold Thrones," you know, these -- the luxurious room. And here is this man, that half the country voted for him, many are struggling. Do you care? Is it much ado about nothing? Do you think he even thought about the signal he would be sending?

FLEISCHER: It doesn't matter. If it did, the American people wouldn't have gone for a billionaire in the first place. They know he's a billionaire. They don't care what kind of chairs he has.

BALDWIN: They cared about Mitt Romney's money.

FLEISCHER: They did. You know what? Mitt Romney didn't wear it well. Donald Trump wore it, put it in people's faces and said, "I'm a billionaire, that's good, you want more people to be like me. I'm great." Mitt Romney was much more old school, you don't talk about wealth, you keep it inward.

BALDWIN: Wealth whisperers camp.

FLEISCHER: That's right. Didn't wear it the way Donald Trump wore it. And Donald Trump has blown through all of those bad notions that you can't be rich and be in touch. Donald Trump is a billionaire that people called the blue-collar billionaire that blue-collar voters like.

BALDWIN: Ari Fleischer, thank you for stopping by, appreciate it.

FLEISCHER: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Next, she played a prominent role during the campaign and now Ivanka Trump is sitting in on a meeting between her father and the first world leader her father has met with, his first meeting with the Japanese prime minister. Could this be an indication of what's to come as far as the closeness between the family and the administration? Let's explore that coming up.

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[14:51:05] BALDWIN: President-elect Trump holding his first meeting with a global leader. Trump sitting alongside Japanese prime minister Shinzo Abe in a lavish room in Trump Tower. But it's who else was in the room raising eyebrows are. His daughter, Ivanka Trump, and her husband Jared Kushner. We should note American journalists were not allowed in the room which is why all the major networks and cable outlets in the U.S. Are not using the photos from the meeting but for Ivanka's part back in September she told CNN having this kind of access to her father is just business as usual.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVANKA TRUMP, DAUGHTER OF DONALD TRUMP: He would pick up the phone every single time. And he'd put me on speakerphone, wouldn't be a long conversation. He'd introduce me to whoever was in his office. But only in retrospect, I laugh now, that it didn't matter who was there. If it was colleagues, it was titans of industry, heads of countries, he'd always take my call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Doug Brinkley is with us, CNN presidential historian; and Elise Labott, CNN global affairs correspondent.

Elise, the fact that you have this -- you know, Ivanka sitting with her father in his very first world leader meeting, what more do we know? Why was she there?

ELIZE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESOPNDENT: Well, from the Japanese side they said it was a very warm very cordial meeting. If you look at the Japanese press, they weren't necessarily upset that Ivanka Trump was there. The Japanese citizen, obviously, she is seen as someone very popular and close to her father. And undoubtedly Ivanka is one of her father's closest advisors. She's been seen over the campaign as someone who seems to walk him back a bit when he seems to go too far and is too combative. But at the same time, it sends signals to the world about who is close to the father. We've talked about chaos and confusion in the transition, in fact, one diplomat said to me, "I'm wondering if I should get an appointment with Ivanka Trump because I don't know who else is close to the father."

It also raises some questions about the fact that -- about a conflict of interest. Donald Trump said he was going to divest himself of his business interests, turn it over to his children. But if his children are involved in the transition and meeting with world leaders, I think it sends a message to people in the country --

BALDWIN: That's the question.

LABOTT: -- around the world that, you know, if you do business with Ivanka, that will make me happy. And that does raise some questions. And it raises questions about security clearances. They don't necessarily have it yet. This was an informal "get to know you" meeting but it's very unorthodox and is causing some concern here in the United States.

BALDWIN: Unprecedented, Doug Brinkley?

DOUG BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Not unprecedented. Franklin Roosevelt used to have his sons and daughters with him all the time. There would be one of his kids meeting when he had secret meeting with Churchill. But in recent years, we haven't had full adult sons or daughters. The exception was President Bush, 41. He didn't let Jeb or any others be involved with White House protocol, but George W. was working with his father as an angry pit bull during that time.

BALDWIN: So, Elise, the murkiness with how close the adult children will be with the business they're running, and their father, who is president of the free world. There's the Jared Kushner angle, talk of him having a security clearance, potentially, advisor, it could be very murky.

LABOTT: It could be. I'm not sure necessarily with Jared Kushner how that fits into laws about nepotism. And it doesn't look like Ivanka Trump will be taking a role in the administration but she is a close advisor to her father. I'm sure presidents are always talking to their family, maybe more informal advice.

[14:55:22] But the biggest concern here is that Ivanka Trump and the rest of the Trump children are going to be seen as running the Trump empire and if they're -- let's say, for instance, if Ivanka wanted to -- if the Trump Organization wanted to open up a hotel in Japan and, given the fact she was in that meeting with her father, does that send the signal to the Japanese, listen, they don't want to upset Trump, we need to do what they want. It raises some questions. Hopefully, as Trump takes office and has more formal advisors, a cabinet, this will become less of an issue.

BALDWIN: Doug and Elise, thank you. We'll see how it shakes out.

Straight ahead, Donald Trump's national security team lining up. What former House Republican majority leader, Tom Delay, thinks about his choices. He'll join me live next.

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