Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

Trump Meets With Potential Staff And Cabinet Picks; Mitt Romney Considered For Secretary Of State; James Mattis Considered For Secretary Of Defense. Mattis' Nomination Would Require Congressional Waiver; Trump Looking at Wall Street for Cabinet Posts; Democrats Battle For House Minority Leader Position. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 21, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, I'm Brianna Keilar. Wolf Blitzer is on assignment. It Is 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 8:00 p.m. in Aleppo, Syria and 2:00 a.m. Tuesday morning in Beijing. Wherever you are watching from around the world, thank you so much for joining us.

Up first, the Trump transition. President-elect Donald Trump is huddling with advisers as well as staff and cabinet picks. Former campaign manager Kellyanne Conway was asked about the timeline for filling the cabinet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, FORMER MANAGER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, we know that we're ahead of schedule, where other presidents have been. So, we're not in a rush.

I mean, it took President Jimmy Carter five weeks to fill some of these positions. Reagan three to four weeks. President Obama two to three weeks. Really, three weeks for some of the top spots.

So, we know there's Facebook and Twitter and via e-mail but that wasn't always the case. The fact is that you have to take your time. This is serious business.

And he just has all these different people to interview and to consult with. And, until that is done, he's not in a rush to make those announcements.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: In one of these surprising meetings, Trump met today with Hawaii Democratic Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard to discuss, we are told, a possible job in the administration or is it just get to her point of view?

Also on the visitors' list, former Massachusetts Senator Scott Brown, Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin, former Texas Governor and his former opponent, Rick Perry, and former labor secretary Elaine Chao. One meeting from over the weekend still generating a lot of buzz and

that was with Mitt Romney. He met with Trump at his New Jersey golf retreat. During the primaries, Romney called Trump a fraud and Trump called him a choke artist.

But he's now being considered for the top diplomatic post in the Trump White House, we are learning. And here's how vice president-elect Mike Pence described the Romney meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENIAL-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We spent the better part of an hour together with him. And then, I know that the two of them actually had some private time together. I would -- I would tell you that it was -- it was not only a cordial meeting, but also it was a very substantive meeting.

And I can -- I can say that Governor Romney is under active and serious consideration to serve at secretary of state of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's get more details now on the latest Trump transition activity. National Correspondent Jason Carroll is outside of Trump Tower in New York. There's a lot to talk about today, Jason. Let's talk about some of these folks he's meeting with that some people are saying, that might be odd. And some people say, that is encouraging.

Let's talk about Democratic Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard. What's the reasoning here?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORESPONDENT: Well, look, I think you really hit the nail on the head there. I mean, when you talk about this meeting with her, I mean, she a Democrat from Hawaii. Not, perhaps, a logical choice, especially when you consider that Donald Trump said, at one point, he would not consider a Democrat for his cabinet.

But if you also listen to what Kellyanne Conway was saying that not everyone that will be here at Trump Tower or over the weekend at his facility in New Jersey, not everyone is a leading or top candidate. Some people Trump is meeting with just to take advice or listen to what they have to say.

Also, when you also consider this about Gabbard. She, at times, has been critical of Hillary Clinton, was a Bernie sanders supporter. And optically, it might look good just for appearance sake of him appearing to reach across the aisles and take a meeting with the Democrat, at this point.

So, there could be a number of reasons for why he's meeting with her. But I think, at this point, we just have to say what Kellyanne Conway said, not everyone who's coming through these doors is a leading contender.

KEILAR: What about this meeting with Mitt Romney? How serious is this consideration of him for secretary of state?

CARROLL: I think it's very serious, even considering the past problems that these two men have had with each other. As you pointed out, at one point, Romney calling Trump a fraud. And Trump striking back basically saying that he choked when he ran for president.

But, look, in politics, you'd be surprised how my times people who have been add odds suddenly come together for whatever reason. But you heard Trump and saw that Trump even tweeted about his meeting with Romney. So, I think that one is a serious meeting.

But, once again, you know, there were thoughts as to whether or not we'd hear an announcement over the weekend or perhaps even today or this week. But the campaign -- or the transition team seems to be in no hurry to name even some of the top spots, at this point.

KEILAR: All right. Jason Carroll will keep us updated. We appreciate it.

Former defense secretary William Cohen knows what it is like to be vetted for a key position. He was also a Republican serving in the cabinet of a Democratic president, Bill Clinton. Secretary Cohen joining us now here in Washington. So, thank you so much for being generous with your time here.

[13:05:02] You -- I wonder what you think about his leading contender for defense secretary? This is retired General James Mattis. He has pretty good word of mouth. What do you think?

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: I am very impressed with him. I've known him a long time. He is a great warrior and also a great scholar. So, the combination of being in an intellectual and a soldier's soldier or Marine's Marine, Jim Mattis fits the bill.

You have to remember that the secretary of defense is number two in the chain of command. You go from the commander in the field directly to the secretary of defense, directly to the president. So, those are the only three people in the chain. Not the chairman of the joint chiefs, not the vice president, secretary of defense.

So, the president would have to have, obviously, very strong confidence in his secretary of defense. And General Mattis would obviously have the support of the military.

And the challenge there would be, would he be seen as being too subservient to the military since he served 44 years in the military? Or would he be able to be the civilian boss of the military in that position, reporting directly to the president?

KEILAR: There's this issue of normally there has to be a seven-year lag time between when you are in uniform and you are the secretary of defense. That would need to be waived.

COHEN: It would.

KEILAR: Well, there's nothing -- I guess it's biblical, in seven years. But I think George Marshall, the great general, became secretary of state and then, within five years, became secretary of defense by the time he left the military.

So, there's nothing magical in the seven years. They won't have enough time to say, are you separated enough from the military ethic and culture and part of the community as such to be the civilian boss? Because the secretary of defense, civilian rules subordinates the military to civilian control, and that's reporting directly to the president.

So, there are a number of issues involved.

KEILAR: Yes.

COHEN: Since he is a warrior, the question becomes, if the president were to give him an order that he felt violated the conventions on war, the Geneva conventions, if he gave him an instruction to commit an act, which was -- he deemed to be illegal, would he follow it?

KEILAR: And so, for instance, we heard the vice president-elect did not rule out waterboarding, for instance. And there's been talk of that. Would that go on?

COHEN: Well, that's an issue. In the past, during the year of George Bush presidency, we had waterboarding and the attorney general gave opinions which suggested that was legal.

You have people like Senator John McCain and others saying, wait a minute, we don't engage in that. As a matter of policy, it might become important on any one given issue. We had someone who is so important that you felt that a terrorist action was about to take place, you can say we can do that.

KEILAR: But this is what he'll have to determine. He will have to make that call and can he reorient himself away from the military to do that?

COHEN: Exactly. I have confidence that he would and could. And he'd be a very strong voice to the president-elect with has no real background in military affairs, and certainly not in the Middle East and elsewhere.

KEILAR: So, as a Republican who served under a Democratic president, can we -- let's talk about, you know, some of the potential options or even not necessarily -- not necessarily being a Republican, but being a different type of Republican serving under Donald Trump. I mean, some of his biggest critics were Republicans.

How do -- when you saw some challenges that you experienced, I imagine that you would think that could happen, even with, like, a Mitt Romney being secretary of state. Very different views, for instance, on Russia. How do you navigate at? What are the difficulties?

COHEN: What you have to say is, look, if I'm going to sign on as your vice president, as your secretary of defense, we have to have an understanding. I am on your team. I will do everything in my power to make you successful.

And I will follow every single directive you give to me, unless I feel it contravenes the basic ethics and ideals that I share that would make it impossible for me to carry out the duties. So, I would resign. Under those exceptional circumstances.

But, for the most part, you sign up and say I'm willing to serve you, you serve at the president's pleasure, and try to make him as successful as possible.

KEILAR: The -- obviously, some -- on the maybe lower level, something you wouldn't resign over, there would be questions that you have to answer, difficult questions. So, secretary --

COHEN: There were many issues I voted against President Clinton on when I was a senator.

KEILAR: Sure.

COHEN: And I found myself, during the State of the Union, sitting next to secretary Rubin, treasury, saying, gee, I voted against you on these things and I'm now applauding.

KEILAR: Yes.

COHEN: It -- they were minor, in terms of my job as secretary of defense, --

KEILAR: Yes.

COHEN: -- but it was a unique experience for me.

KEILAR: Very unique.

Secretary Cohen, thank you so much. I really appreciate you being with us today.

And coming up, President Obama praising Nancy Pelosi as her future comes under question. Her fight to maintain House minority leadership.

[13:10:00] Plus, an active manhunt is underway in Texas for the gunman who fatally shot a San Antonia police detective. This, just one of four officer shootings that occurred in less than 24 hours. We'll have details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Now, we are waiting on word of any new cabinet announcements, as president-elect Donald Trump holds another round of marathon meetings with potential candidates.

I want to bring in our panel to talk all of this over. We have Jim Sciutto, he is CNN's Chief National Security Correspondent. Matteo Gold is a national political reporter at "The Washington Post." And Annie Lowry is a contributing editor at "New York" magazine. OK, let's talk about the secretary of defense possibility that we're hearing a lot about. And that is retired Marine Corps General James Mattis. What is the word on the street and how is this being received?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: He's clearly being considered very closely for this job. He's popular with the soldiers, right? This is a soldiers' commander so he has that support.

And he also has support from both parties. I mean, you've seen a good reception of him from both Republicans and Democrats who were in the national security space. So, that's good.

But you would have to have Congress vote on a waiver to allow a uniform general who has not been retired for seven years to run the Pentagon.

[13:15:06] Why is this important? Back in 1950, actually 1947, they passed a law because, as a nation, it's been important to have civilian control of the military. In the wake of World War II, they enacted a law - actually, interestingly enough, they immediately enacts a waiver to that law for George Marshall to be the defense secretary. But it was - since then there hasn't been an exception. They've held to that rule. So you would need to allow - you'd have to have Congress vote. Of course he has a majority - the president has a majority if he decided to go this way but to make this exception because it is an important rule in the way our system works.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: They make a law. They create a waiver. Wow, you know, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

SCIUTTO: Right, (INAUDIBLE).

KEILAR: OK, Matea, I want to talk to you about the economy because we're hearing that JP Morgan chief Jamie Dimon, that's a possibility for Treasury. I know as well, Annie, that you have been reported on this, maybe Wilbur Ross (ph) for commerce. When - what does that tell you about where he's looking to have his economic advisors be?

MATEA GOLD, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, there's no small amount of irony that he would turn to a major banking executive after hammering Hillary Clinton on her ties to Wall Street. I do think that the financial district would love it if Dimon accepted. They are very skeptical of the idea that he would. It seems more likely that Steven Mnuchin, who was Trump's top campaign fundraiser, a former hedge fund manager or current hedge fund manager, would be in the lead for that. And, once again, a fundraiser who would be coming in to the administration. That's something that the Trump transition team has had to answer questions about at every turn, which is the role that fundraisers and donors and lobbyists are continuing to play.

KEILAR: But either way, Annie, we're talking about someone in the finance industry, right? So what is - so, I mean, what are your expectations, whether it is these names that we're looking at for Treasury or Commerce, but just what these names being floated signals.

ANNIE LOWREY, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK MAGAZINE": Yes. So what we have seen is, Trump has pulled in a really wide pool and sometime as strange pool of candidates for these positions, but he's tended to go with people to whom he's already been close. And so, you know, I think both Jamie Dimon and Steven Mnuchin are very calming to Wall Street. There are well-known people whose views are known. And there's a feeling that there's going to be financial deregulation one way or another, with Jeb Henserling (ph) in Congress really eager to pull back some provision of Dodd/Frank. So I think that this is not - these are not people that are upsetting Wall Street and I think it would be surprising if Trump went with Dimon, simply because he's shown that he's tended to want people in his cabinet that he's been personally close to before.

KEILAR: I'm sure you guys heard what the president said in Lima, Peru. He was asked about, you know, basically what - or what he was talking about was what kind of former president he's going to be, which is always so fascinating. And he indicated that when it came to governing, legislative objectives, he's not going to weigh in and say that's a bad idea, this is a good idea. But he said he would speak out if the new administration breaches certain values or ideals. What do you make of that? Is that him sort of warning, or is that him answering Democrats who want him to be more active when there's such a sort Democratic bench of people who can really be a mouthpiece?

GOLD: Well, a little bit of both. I mean there are definitely - I heard grumblings from Democrats that he was so incredibly gracious and spent so much time with Trump, which clearly that's his job, that's his role to be. It's going to be a very odd dynamic. The former president will be here in Washington while his youngest daughter finishes school while his, you know, successor is right down the street. So it's going to be a very strange environment.

SCIUTTO: Well, it will be a big departure, too, for George W. Bush, right, who basically disappeared from the scene. Now, different circumstances in that President Obama's leaving office a fairly popular president, right, 55 percent approval rating, but also a - I mean, listen, the country was pretty divided in 2008 as we remember, but this is a particular divided time. And here's a president who, while he clearly respects the process, as we saw with that support, you know, the meeting with Trump, et cetera, he's very concerned about some of the statements and even some of the early appointments of the Trump administration.

KEILAR: He can't - he can't forget that George W. Bush, as - as he as described, did a very good job on the transition and making it go very smoothly and - and also on this, right?

LOWREY: And I think that one thing that we know about Donald Trump is that he is not swayed by strong argument for the other side. If you get adversarial with him, he just digs his heels in harder. And I think one thing that President Obama has indicated a willingness to do, is to be the guy to call up and kind of sweet talk him a little bit, right? There are not very many Democrats who are going to be willing to do that with Donald Trump. And bizarrely enough, President Obama might be the one of them that can. And I think that you've started to hear a lot of folks start to think about that, right, is getting on this guy's side, going to be the key to getting any policy priorities or changing his mind about anything.

KEILAR: Yes, he's been so far - especially abroad - very supportive. Some have said perhaps more hopeful than optimistic, but certainly his language has been notable like that.

Annie Lowrey, Matea Gold, Jim Sciutto, thank you so much.

[13:20:02] Coming up, as Democrats try to find their post-election footing, minority leader Nancy Pelosi is being challenged by a congressman who says change is needed at the top.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TIM RYAN (D), OHIO (voice-over): How many seats do we have to lose before we make a change? I'm pulling the fire alarm here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Next, Nancy Pelosi's fight to maintain power in the House. We'll be talking with Congressman Gregory Meeks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Right now democrats are looking ahead to the path forward for the future, and that could mean a major change at the top. A major battle is brewing for the House minority leader position, with Nancy Pelosi being challenged for the first time since 2010. Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan is making a play to unseat her when that vote happens next Wednesday. And I spoke with Congressman Ryan a short time ago.

[13:25:15] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TIM RYAN (D), OHIO (voice-over): I want to ask the question to my colleagues, how many seats do we have to lose before we make a change? We've lost 68 seats since 2010. Is it 80 seats? Is it 90 seats? Like, what's the number that forces us to do things differently? And so I'm pulling the fire alarm here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I want to talk more about this now with New York Congressman Gregory Meeks. He's also the chairman of the House Congressional Black Caucus PAC, I should say.

OK, so you just heard Congressman Ryan and he - I think he seems aware of the fact that he has an uphill climb on this, but he says there has to be this discussion, that the Democratic bench is just so shallow. What do you think about that point that he makes?

REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D), NEW YORK: Dialogue is good. To say that Democrat were not disappointed coming out of the November 8th elections, we were. And so, therefore, anytime you have a disappointing election, there's nothing to celebrate. You've got to sit down and you've got to talk, you've got to strategize and you've got to plan. You can't act like, you know, you're just going to do the same thing or there's going to be, you know, what the game plan is the same. You've got to figure out and talk and then be more - and be inclusive.

So I think that the dialogue and conversation that we're having among ourselves as a family is tremendously important so that we can move forward because 2018 will be a very important election time, both for us on the - in the House Democratic side, as far as the House side is concerned, and the DNC, which I think are two different subject matters and two different conversations.

KEILAR: I should point out, Congressman Meeks, I think it's important to note, you have not publicly taken a position on who you are supporting there. I just want to put that out there. So, let's talk about President Obama, because he has all but endorsed Nancy Pelosi. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I cannot speak highly enough of Nancy Pelosi. She combines strong, progressive values with just extraordinary political skill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So, I mean, it's basically endorsing Nancy Pelosi. Her challenger is making this point that the discussion needs to happen. You agree with that. You say that is important. President Obama, arguably while popular, is someone who contributed to what is a shallow Democratic bench. He wasn't a party person. That wasn't as much as priority. Some people may wonder if he looks back and wishes that he had paid a little more attention to it. So with him, with that in mind, he's weighing in on that. You know, what do you think about this and about the attention that needs to be paid to building that Democratic bench?

MEEKS: Yes, I think that he's absolutely right. There's no harder worker. No smarter person. No person that knows how to plan better than Nancy Pelosi. She has been fantastic in that regard. The fact of the matter is, you know, we had a presidential election that influenced all of the elections throughout, whether it was the House and the Senate, and we've got to have a dialogue and conversation with that. You know, and so I think it's important. And the reason why I just haven't come out, because I think that we need to have dialogue and we want every member of the caucus to talk. Those who may favor her and those who may not. I want to be all-inclusive about that. But, ultimately, I think that we're going to be united with one leader to take us to the next step. And I think - so I think President Obama's statement was absolutely the right statement to make.

Now, when you look at the DNC, and I think it's different for us, when you are in the DNC, when you have someone who is the president, and when you have someone who's not the president. So, for example, what am I saying? On the House side, if we were to take back the majority, then we have to win seats that are in marginal districts. We have to win blue dog seats. We've got to win u (ph) dem (ph) seats. These are not the progressive seats. We don't lose progressive seats in a regular election. We may lose them and what we've got to do on a - on a presidential election is a different problem.

So the DNC, on the other hand, has to make sure that we have a higher turnout from progressive seats to win state-wide elections. And we have 18 gubernatorial offices open in 2018 that we've got to win and state legislators that we've got to win so that we're prepared for 2020 when redistricting happens so that we can level a playing field so that we can ultimately win back the House with comfortable numbers.

KEILAR: One of the broader points of Tim Ryan is that when you have people who are in these battleground districts, because there's just so few of them, as you mentioned now, because of redistricting, that those are the folks who need to have a seat at table for the discussion, because if they don't, you end up in a situation like this where Democrats have, you know, a pretty small minority compared to what you had in the past. Is that something on a wider scale that needs to be looked at by the party?

[13:30:11] MEEKS: I think that's what we're talking about, within the Democratic structure.