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Trump White House Won't Investigate Clinton; Trump Camp: We're Going to The New York Times; Trump Business Ties Pose Ethical Questions; School Bus Driver Charged: At Least 5 Kids Killed. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired November 22, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:16]

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CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: -- his concert tour was abruptly cancelled following a - a recent bizarre rant.

KANYE WEST, RAPPER: Feelings matter, bro. Feelings matter, bro. It's a new world, Hillary Clinton.

COSTELLO: The rant igniting a Twitter storm after Kanye West said, if he had voted it would have been for Donald Trump.

The next hour of "CNN Newsroom" starts now.

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COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. President-elect Donald Trump, cramming in more meetings today before breaking for the Thanksgiving holiday, here's a live picture of the golden elevators at the transition headquarters inside Trump Tower in New York. Mr. Trump still has top cabinet positions to name but that will apparently wait. We just learned that Trump is going ahead with his meeting with "The New York Times." Just a few hours ago, he had canceled it. But the headlines so far today, the biggest headline I should say, is that the Trump White House will not pursue an investigation into Hillary Clinton's e-mails. That's despite months of candidate Trump mocking crooked Hillary and reveling in his supporter's chants of lock her up. CNN's Jason Carroll, live outside of Trump Tower, good morning.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol. You know, a number of supporters that I spoke to over the past several months were really encouraged by this idea of Donald Trump going after Hillary Clinton, in this idea of him appointing a special prosecutor to do that, but it looks like now that is not going to happen. It was back in June that Trump first mentioned this idea of - Hillary Clinton going to jail. And then it was in August, at a rally where he brought up the idea of appointing a special prosecutor to do it, but now his campaign manager says that idea, now, off the table.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KELLYANNE CONWAY, SENIOR ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD J. TRUMP: I think when the president-elect, who's also the head of your party now, Joe, tells you before he's even inaugurated. He doesn't wish to pursue these charges. It sends a very strong message, tone and content to the members. And I think Hillary Clinton still has to face the fact that a majority of Americans don't find her to be honest or trustworthy. But if Donald Trump can help her heal, then perhaps that's a good thing. I do -- look, I think he's thinking of many different things as he prepares to become the President of the United States. And things that sound like the campaign aren't among them.

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CARROLL: So that's what he's not going to do. But on to what he says he is going to do in his next 100 days of office. He says that he's going to do several issues - and several issues that he has -- that he was focused on, several points that he's going to try to accomplish in his first 100 days of office. He released his video, going over it. Some of them include withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership, TPP. That's something he spoke about many times at his rally. He thought it was bad for U.S. workers. Also, this idea of having a five- year ban on executive officials becoming lobbyists after they leave an administration, that's one of the other things he plans to do in his first 100 days of office.

Some of the things not included in that video, Carol, once again, no idea of his -- notion of having a special prosecutor, no mention of the wall on the border with Mexico, no mention of repealing and replacing Obamacare. Doesn't mean those things -- some of those other things are not going to happen. It simply means at least at this point not mentioned in that video that he put out.

But on to what's happening here at Trump Tower, more of those meetings. There's been much speculation in terms of who is going to make up his cabinet. We've seen Rudy Giuliani come in and out here, making some statements. Trump tweeting about that this morning. Saying he's going to be having great meetings here at Trump Tower and he also talked about the people who will be running the country. He says, for the next eight years, Carol.

COSTELLO: I'm just laughing. Next eight years. I guess that means he's going to run for a second term.

CARROLL: It would seem so.

COSTELLO: It would seem so. Jason Carroll, thank you so much. You heard Jason Carroll mention Rudy Giuliani. Well, -- he was seen leaving the Trump Tower. As you know, he's the vice chair of Mr. Trump's transition team. And reporters did ask him about this -- about the intent of Donald Trump not to pursue charges against Hillary Clinton. This is what Rudy Giuliani said.

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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What do you think of his decision today? He said that he's not to pursue charges against Hillary Clinton? RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NYC MAYOR: Well, I didn't see that actually except a little -- a news clip, nor have I talked about it. Look, there is a tradition in American politics that after you win an election, you sort of put things behind you. And if that's the decision he reached, that's perfectly consistent with sort of the historical pattern of things come up, you say a lot of things, even some bad things might happen, and then you sort of put it behind you in order to unite the nation.

So if he made that decision, I would be supportive of it. I would also be supportive of continuing the investigation. I think -- the president-elect had a tough choice there. You could go either way. He made the choice to unite the nation. I think all those people would didn't vote against him maybe can take another look at him. Thank you.

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COSTELLO: All right. So let's talk about all of this. With me now is Ryan Lizza.

[10:05:16] He's a CNN political commentator and Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker." Patricia Murphy is here. She's a columnist for "The Daily Beast" and "Roll Call." And CNN media correspondent Brian Stelter will be joining us at any moment now, who's busy doing some reporting. But he'll jump into his seat at any moment now. So Ryan, let's start with you. What do you make of Donald Trump's decision not to seek any sort of prosecution against Hillary Clinton?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT "THE NEW YORKER": You know, Carol, the thing that I think is a little troubling about the whole conversation is that, we've got into this way of talking about the Department of Justice and the FBI as if it's a tool of the White House. As if the president-elect has unilateral authority to decide these matters. Now, he can recommend to the Department of Justice that he doesn't want a special prosecutor to look to reopen the e-mail case. But what was also reported today is that the Clinton Foundation will not be investigated.

Now, I don't know -- one way or another, if the FBI has ever uncovered anything, any criminal wrongdoing at the Clinton Foundation. I know there was a lot of political rhetoric about that during the campaign. But if -- there's incredible evidence that something went wrong, that there's a crime committed at the Clinton Foundation, it's not for the president-elect or the president to decide whether the FBI should look into that.

So, I think he is correct in letting bygones be bygones and not continuing the rhetoric about locking up his opponent, which was frankly the kind of thing we'd see in a third world banana republic. But the idea that the White House decides these things for the FBI is terrifying. I mean, this is the kind thing that went on in the Nixon White House. And we should all be aware that it's not his decision to run the FBI.

COSTELLO: Interesting. So, Patricia, just because Donald Trump says, you know, there will be no legal action pursued against Hillary Clinton, that doesn't mean lawmakers will go - will not decide for themselves to do some sort of congressional investigation, does it?

PATRICIA MURPHY, COLUMNIST "THE DAILY BEAST" AND "ROLL CALL": I think that's exactly right. I think, also, without this announcement, though, there was still a significant appetite among Republican lawmakers to still continue to investigate Hillary Clinton. I do think that this is a signal from the White House to tell those Republican lawmakers, particularly Congressman Chaffetz, there's no need to pursue this further, in our opinion. Because there are always, certainly, politics wrapped up in all of these decisions. I think it's an important signal to be sending it's relevant.

But I do agree with Ryan. The fact that Donald Trump is getting credit for saying never mind, let's not talk about locking her up, the fact that this was ever brought up as a piece of the campaign, one candidate promising to jail his opponent, was so unprecedented, so unusual, relatively Stalling-esque (ph). The fact that he's not doing it, or says that he doesn't want to do it, is relevant and important. But I think it's not something that anybody should really get a lot of credit for. Although I do think it's a good way to start to mend some fences with Democrats who would have, frankly, tried to block every single thing he did if he continued his rhetoric to pursue this. --

COSTELLO: And then, you know, -- Hillary Clinton is leading the popular vote by 1.6 million votes right at the moment. It could head up to 2 million. Because there are still millions of votes still uncounted in the nation. And I know Donald Trump won the election fair and square, I'm not saying that, but there is a large faction of the population that does support Hillary Clinton supposedly, right?

MURPHY: Yes -- well, of course. I mean, she's winning the popular vote, will win it, more likely by more than 2 million votes. So, in a way, you know, Kellyanne said that this is a way for Hillary Clinton to start to heal. I don't think it's about Hillary Clinton healing. I do think, though, that the country needs to heal. Voters need to heal. It's been an incredibly divisive, emotional, painful election for a lot of voters. And so to take this off the table, I think is a good way to start to let the country start to move on from the campaign.

COSTELLO: Ryan, your thoughts?

LIZZA: Yes, look, I think -- look, I don't believe that the popular vote one way or the other matters, whether the Justice Department should look into criminal wrongdoing by anyone. And this is going to be a really important issue for the judiciary committee to look at when Senator Jeff Sessions' confirmation hearings come up because there are some real questions here about the independence of the Department of Justice and the independence of the FBI. The way that the Trump -- the incoming Trump White House staff, assuming Kellyanne Conway is going to join the White House, the way that they're talking about the Justice Department is as a tool of the president. And so I'm not -- I don't take much solace from the fact that the president-elect says oh, never mind, I'm not going to use the Justice Department to pursue a vendetta against one of my political opponents. Well, of course you're not, [10:10:16] you are not allowed to do that. So that to me, Carol, -- not to sound like a broken record, but that's the issue here, is the independence of the Justice Department and the FBI and making sure that it does not become a tool of any politician.

COSTELLO: OK. I want to get to Brian Stelter because there was this confusing messaging from Donald Trump this morning because he was supposed to meet with "The New York Times." And then he tweeted out this morning that you know the meeting was canceled because somehow "The New York Times" changed the terms of the meeting. And "The New York Times" came out with a statement, and said hey, no, we didn't. And now, Brian Stelter is it back on?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN HOST "RELIABLE SOURCES": It is back on. I've just spoken with Trump press secretary, Hope Hicks, as well as "The Times" spokeswoman, Eileen Murphy. They say this meeting, this lunchtime meeting will happen after all. And Carol this goes to show Trump's impulsive nature, his willingness to cancel a meeting via Twitter then seek to reschedule it. It shows his combative approach toward the press. It's what we saw during the campaign. And there are no signs it's going to change now. In fact, what we're seeing is it's exactly the same kind of anti-media rhetoric that he ran on is what he's continuing to use now that he's president-elect. This meeting will happen at lunchtime. There will be an off the record chat between "Times" publisher-author Sulzberger and Trump. But then, importantly, an on the record interview, "The Times" insisted that Trump couldn't just come over to the headquarters and complain about news coverage. He actually had to answer questions on the record. So that will happen at lunchtime and we'll all be refreshing "The New York Times" website to see what happens.

COSTELLO: Oh, we sure will. Thanks to all of you. Brian Stelter, Ryan Lizza, Patricia Murphy.

LIZZA: Thanks Carol.

COSTELLO: You're welcome. Still to come in the "Newsroom," untangling Trump's business affairs, why ethicists say Trump's conflict of interest pose an unprecedented problem, a CNN investigation, next.

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[10:15:45] COSTELLO: Donald Trump is pushing back on claims his businesses carry an inherent conflict of interest. Last night, the president-elect tweeted this, "Prior to the election it was well known that I have interests in properties all over the world. Only the crooked media makes this a big deal!"

Well, the location of Trump properties may be known, the depth of his business ties in foreign countries have troubled some political ethicists. Drew Griffin investigates.

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DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It started with what was built as a courtesy call, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe slipping in a back elevator at Trump Tower to meet the president- elect, Trump's daughter, Ivanka in attendance.

But neither reporters know their cameras were at the meeting which reportedly included a gift to Trump of a golf club like this one, a gold Honma Beres driver worth nearly $4,000. Then came the two businessmen from India who currently own Trump branded properties south of Mumbai. According to the Trump organization, it was just another social call and --

CONWAY: I'm very confident he's not breaking any laws.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): But the meeting is raising questions. Well, it's not illegal for a sitting president to run a business. It's a question of optics and ethics. A CNN analysis shows Trump has business dealings in at least 25 countries including Saudi Arabia, China, Azerbaijan.

A month ago, there was worry that the Trump brand was being destroyed by his run from office. But since November 8th, things have changed and presidential ethics experts are saying, "The only possible solution to end all of Trump's conflicts of interest are for Trump to sell it all, put the money in a blind trust and end the Trump empire.

RICHARD PAINTER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ETHICS LAWYER: Of course, the blind thrust can work, but you have to sell the assets. You can't just put the assets in a blind trust and pretend you don't own them.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Here's why that's probably not going to happen. A large parts of Trump's business is Donald Trump. Trump's partners across the globe are buying the right to license that brand. It brings them more rent money for office space, condos and hotel rooms.

The brand also comes with the Trump organization expertise in design marketing, operations, almost like a franchise. Business partners buy in, because it sells, and the Trump's stay involved to make sure the brand doesn't get tarnished.

Daniel Lebensohn, a South Florida developer took over a failing Trump property and fought to keep the Trump brand because he wanted to make sure he had access to Ivanka and Eric Trump in almost every part of the deal.

DANIEL LEBENSOHN, DEVELOPER: We wanted the association. They want the continuity of brand and that works on both ends. It's profitable for everybody.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): In a Fox News debate earlier this year, Donald Trump said, instead of selling off the brand his solution is to pass the brand to the people he has groomed to take it over. All named Trump. Not exactly a blind trust.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL-ELECT: I have Ivanka and Eric and Don sitting there. Run the company, kids. Have a good time. I'm going to do it for America.

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COSTELLO: All right. That was Drew Griffin reporting. So let's talk about this. CNN political commentator and former RNC communications director Doug Hyde is here along with Democratic strategist and former Clinton White House aide, Keith Boykin. Welcome to both of you.

DOUG HEYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. So Doug, when Trump tweets out, "Prior to the election it was well known that I have interests in properties all over the world. Only the crooked media makes this a big deal!" Is he right?

HEYE: Well, certainly we all knew about it. It was one of the reasons that he was elected because he was a different kind of candidate, a different kind of Republican, certainly. Obviously, a lot of questions have been coming up over the past couple of days, over certain meetings. What I would say is, we knew we were electing a different kind of person. This is a transition not just into a new administration but a transition of businessman Donald Trump into President Donald Trump. We're 13 days into this process. If we have the same conversation 13 weeks from now, it's a different conversation.

COSTELLO: But you would think -- there would be some sort of plan by the Trump transition team, you know, to solve these conflicts of interests. So the voters wouldn't have to worry about things like, oh, pay to play, right, Keith?

HEYE: Sure, sure, and, look, pay to play was obviously something that was used very effectively against the Clinton campaign. -

COSTELLO: That's right.

HEYE: This is why -- two weeks in, these are questions that in two months, I think, will be very much more serious questions when he's President Trump.

-- You talked about Florida earlier. Look at what Rick Scott did in Florida, putting things into a blind trust so that he doesn't have those questions as he's been governor. That's a good avenue for Trump to pursue.

[10:20:16] COSTELLO: But Keith, I haven't heard anything from Donald Trump, except that he's going to turn the businesses over to his kids, have you?

KEITH BOYKIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST AND FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE AIDE: No, I haven't. In fact, he hasn't had a press conference since he was elected. So of course he wouldn't have said anything. But the reality is, Donald Trump could be the most crooked president we've had since Richard Nixon. And he's on the road to making that happen right now. If he wasn't a billionaire, a real billionaire before he was elected, he certainly will be by the time he leaves office. Because he is engaged in the most crooked, corrupt form of self-dealing, I've seen from any presidential candidate, nominee or elected official in recent history. Not only should he put his family business into a blind trust, he should also release his tax returns and he should divest all of his income from foreign governments because that is a violation of the U.S. Constitution. He's in danger of violating the -- anti-nepotism law of 1967 by appointing his family members to the transition. This guy, just today, -- admitted the Trump Foundation was violating the IRS laws. I mean, how much more corruption does it take before the American people wake up and realize he's not going to drain the swamp, he is the swamp.

COSTELLO: Well, here's the thing, I'm just going to come up with a simple example, Doug. Donald Trump has a -- I think it's a $900 million mortgage in a Chinese bank, right? So if he really wants to renegotiate trade deals concerning China, there's that bank loan hanging out there. So how can he assure the American people that bank loan will make no difference at all in the way he deals with China?

HEYE: Well, I think that's why exactly a blind trust will be a good thing. -- But, you know, let's keep in mind.

COSTELLO: He's not going to sell everything off and create a blind trust.

HEYE: Well, you know, let's keep in mind two things. One, he's not the president yet. So attacking he, as if he's president and subject to the law -- the ethics laws, that federal officials have to deal with, is just not the case right now. Two, there are steps that he can do, such as a blind trust that will be helpful. -- As long as it's out there, there will still be those questions. But, you know, I find it comical to hear people who said for two years there's nothing to see here with Hillary Clinton, she's just going to be -

(CROSSTALK)

BOYKIN: Oh, come on, come on, this is ridiculous, Hillary Clinton -

HEYE: -- a wonderful president, no other questions at all. They were already calling corruption for somebody who's not president -- I didn't interrupt you so please do not interrupt me, Carol. I didn't interrupt anybody. I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

COSTELLO: OK, finish your thoughts, Doug.

HEYE: My point is we've had -- for two years people say there's nothing to see here with Hillary Clinton. And now, the attacks on Trump, he's already the most corrupt president when he's not even president yet. Again, we are two weeks into a transition. We're transitioning not just to a new administration, but from a businessman Trump to a president Trump. Let's give him the opportunity to get to that point and if we're having these questions two months from now, two years from now, those are entirely different things.

BOYKIN: How much longer do we need to wait? The guy was meeting with Indian business partners. He's bringing his daughter who will run his business into a meeting with the Japanese Prime Minister. He's bringing his daughter who will run his business into a phone call with the Argentine president. He is involving his family who will run his business in picking the people who will regulate his business. This is the level of corruption we have not seen in this country in U.S. History -

(CROSSTALK)

HEYE: Again, I think -

BOYKIN: -- again, who said who wasn't going to interrupt the other person. Again, if we're going to allow this to happen and not raise the red flag every time we see it, then we are in danger of moving toward a kleptocracy (ph). And I don't think the American people voted for that when they said they wanted to drain the swamp. I don't think Trump's people said they wanted that, when they said they wanted to drain the swamp. Trump is appointing lobbyists, those very Washington lobbyists. He said he didn't want in his government. He's appointing them to run his transition team. -- Tell me there's not hypocrisy in that. This is not about Hillary Clinton. It's about Donald Trump and his failure to live up to basic standards of ethics and decency.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: I have to leave it there. I have to leave it there. -- He's going to do an interview with "The New York Times." And I'm sure "The New York Times" will pose some of these questions to President-elect Trump and hopefully he'll allay all of our fears. Doug Heye, Keith Boykin, thanks to both of you.

Still to come in the "Newsroom," undocumented immigrants, fighting to stay in the United States legally, now they'll protest from New York to Washington.

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[10:28:16] COSTELLO: All right, we have a little more information on that horrific school bus crash that killed at least five children in Chattanooga, Tennessee. The bus driver now charged with vehicular homicide. Martin Savidge, live on the phone with us right now. Hi, Martin.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Hey, Carol. You know, we've been hearing from the mother, the woman who's come forward and says that she is the mother of the bus driver. And that's Johnthony Walker, by the way, 24 years of age. She has been putting on a statement and she said a whole load of things to CNN but above all, she said that her heart goes out of course, to the families of the victims here. But she is also asking for compassion for her son. And several times, at least three times in the interview, she gave to CNN. She referred to what happened, this horrific accident, as God's will.

And that certainly is starting to bother people as to what exactly does she mean by that. But she's also pointing out, that you know, she calls him a marvelous son. She said that he worked two jobs. He grew up in Chattanooga. And that everybody loves him here. And that he's never been in trouble before. So she's obviously coming forward as a mother to us, in support of her son. She also says that he called her right after the crash and said that he had been involved in an accident. He started to tell her more and she says the police took the telephone away from him. Well, now, as we know, authorities have charged him with five counts of vehicular homicide for the five children who died, also with reckless driving and reckless endangerment.