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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Driver Arrested in Fatal School Bus Crash; Jumpsuit Wearing Ex Leads Police to Burial Site. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired November 22, 2016 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:00] JEAN CASAREZ, HLN HOST: We do begin with breaking news tonight. The bus driver arrested after a deadly crash killing five elementary school

children. Police say he was speeding. And now we`re learning that very same driver was in another school bus accident just weeks ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an absolutely nightmare for this community.

CASAREZ (voice-over): In the deadly school bus crash, authorities tonight pulling the bus`s black box and videocameras for evidence, police also

testing the driver`s blood for drugs.

A desperate search for a missing Air Force veteran goes nowhere until investigators are led to her buried remains by her ex-husband.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez, in for Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to PRIMETIME JUSTICE. Thank you so much for joining us.

The yellow bus carrying 37 elementary students plowed into a tree and flipped over, killing five children and injuring many more. Now

authorities are working to determine how 24-year-old bus driver Johnthony Walker crashed the vehicle. His arrest affidavit says he was driving well

above the speed limit of 30 miles an hour in that part of Chattanooga, Tennessee. Walker faces five counts, including vehicular homicide,

reckless driving and endangerment.

Meanwhile, the local hospital struggled to save lives and help calm the children.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What made this particular scenario particularly difficult was that these patients are all young children. They had no IDs

with them when they arrived. None of the parents were present when they arrived, and they were all wearing uniforms when they arrived.

Many of them were scared or too dazed to talk to us, and because of the young age, were unable to spell their names, did not know their birth dates

or even their parents` names. Several said, Mama, when they were asked who their -- what their name was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: The driver`s mother says Walker called her right after the crash and told her he had been in a, quote, "drastic accident." Blood was

everywhere, he said.

Let`s go straight now to CNN national correspondent Martin Savidge, who`s outside the Erlanger Children`s Hospital there in Chattanooga. Martin, I

think the thing that we all are thinking about right now is it is two days before Thanksgiving.

Tell us the latest about the victims and also the investigation.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the investigation is fully under way now. It`s been joined by federal authorities. The NTSB and the agents

of that department showed up this afternoon. They went to the crash site. They`ve immediately begun to assess the amount of damage that was done to

the vehicle and also to the indicators on the ground as to what exactly took place.

And everything seems to be at least leading authorities early on to the idea that speed was the problem here. The road where this accident

occurred is very narrow. It`s very winding. And it appears by both the witnesses and by the physical evidence that the driver of the school bus

was going much faster, authorities say, than the 30-mile-per-hour that is posted in that area.

Here in the hospital, still 12 students, six of whom are in critical condition, and they`re likely to be here and going through an ordeal for

quite some time. You already heard about how they had to triage through all of these youngsters, last night, the walking wounded, they refer to

them as. Quite a remarkable scene that they got it done in about two hours` time, especially given the identification issues they have.

CASAREZ: Right. And we do know that children are fighting for their lives now, as you say, six of them in critical condition. Do we know at all

anything about the victims that perished in this, their grade levels, what their ages were?

SAVIDGE: Right. There are four girls and there is one boy. I believe that three that are from the 4th grade. One is from the 1st grade and one

is a kindergartener. Beyond that, the authorities have not gone into the identification of who has died.

Speaking of identification last night, you know, one of the issues they quickly ran into is how do you reunite parents? Because parents flocked to

this hospital knowing that their children could be here. They came out with a simple solution. Every parent usually on their phone has a picture

of their child, so they were able to very quickly use the phones and the children in the back matched them up, and there was a happy reunion until

they came to those circumstances where parents showed up with photographs, and they did not have that child back in the ER.

It was a very poignant moment when a teacher was there with another child`s photograph. When it was realized it was the same child and the child

wasn`t back there, this teacher`s photograph, taken that day with these grieving parents` child now would be a lifelong memento.

[20:05:04]This is how the medical staff spoke about that heart-breaking and yet uplifting moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the most memorable things was a teacher that came in. And she was very, very helpful with all of the identification

process. But she was probably the one that helped us identify one of the last children because she had taken a picture that day during lunchtime.

So she had the picture. And she had that, but she sat back for a little while. I think she was waiting. But she finally came forth with that, and

she was able to share that with the family later. And that was a very touching moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: So Jean, you would understand that that is a photograph now that those parents will have and hold for the rest of their lives of the last

happy moment for their child -- Jean.

CASAREZ: Just -- just unbelievable.

Martin, before -- before I go on, we see the pictures of this bus and we see that this -- this -- the bus is almost cut in half. I mean, you just

don`t see things like this. Is there a working theory of how that bus got -- the tree basically but the bus in half. Is there a theory on it at this

point?

SAVIDGE: Well, if you read the police affidavit with the charges that were brought against the bus driver, they sort of give a breakdown where they

say that it appears the bus moving along at a high rate of speed seems to go off the road to the right, strikes what they say an elevated driveway.

And then possibly the driver overcorrects, careening to the left.

And it appears at that time is when the bus then falls on its side, but still must be moving at a great rate of speed because, as you say, it runs

into that tree and is nearly sliced in half. What will supplement that narrative is, of course, the scientific evidence, the videos. There`s one

inside and supposedly outside. There may be audio, as well, and then the black box that refers to what the engine was doing. All of this will form

a complicated equation as to what was happening.

CASAREZ: And we just learned minutes ago that this driver was involved in a previous bus incident in September?

SAVIDGE: Right. Two things. One from the NTSB was that we learned that the driver got their -- their professional driving, bus driving license,

you could call it, CDL, in April. So he hasn`t been driving a bus for that long. And then we`re told that, according to authorities, in September,

the same driver was involved with a bus-car accident, nowhere near as serious, of course.

But all of this would seem to be an indicator you`ve got a problem because on top of that, there are parents how who`ve come forward and said they had

worried about this driver because they had witnessed this driver speeding.

CASAREZ: And still had at the hands 37 students.

Natisha Lance, you are joining us from vigil that is going on tonight. Tell us what`s happening right now.

NATISHA LANCE, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: Jean, the vigil just ended moments ago, and on the steps of the church behind me, we saw several balloons

being released. And you could hear cheers from the audience.

You know, we came into this expecting to see a lot of grief, and I`ve seen a lot of grief. But what happened inside that church this evening was also

a lot of hope. They started the evening singing a song saying, It`s gonna get better, it`s gonna get better. And that`s what seems to be the

sentiment of everyone who`s out here.

I spent a lot of time at the hospital this afternoon talking with some of the parents. There were two sisters who were there. Both of them had

children who were on the bus. One of the sisters had two children on the bus. They were OK. They have bruises, they have scrapes, they`re swollen,

but they`re OK.

The other sister had a 7-year-old daughter who was on the bus, and she is in ICU right now. Her arm was almost completely detached, but doctors were

able to repair that arm by taking arteries from her leg and putting it into her arm. When I spoke to her, she said her daughter is strong, she is

strong, and they have faith. And that is what they are clinging to. They are clinging to their faith tonight, Jean.

CASAREZ: You know, Natisha, we`re two days away from Thanksgiving. As you talk to these parents, have they reflected on that? Because they probably

bought the turkey, they`re ready for the day, where the family is together, and the family in many respects tonight is not together.

LANCE: They have reflected on that, Jean, and they said, you know, Thanksgiving, yes, it is coming up. But if this were to happen at any

time, it would be a difficult situation. Their families have started to make preparations.

I actually spoke to the mother of the bus driver in this case. And she was in Atlanta, Georgia, planning for her Thanksgiving, and now she tonight is

also grieving. And she says while her heart is going out to the children and the parents of the children who were on that bus, she wants people to

also think about her son. And her heart is very heavy tonight, Jean.

[20:10:10]CASAREZ: Martin Savidge, we understand that there is a new witness actually that authorities are looking for, someone who was actually

driving behind the bus at the time this accident happened. Have you heard anything about that?

SAVIDGE: No, other than, of course, that person would be perhaps in a key position to identify and to give investigators a clear idea of what that

bus was doing -- in other words, not just moving at a high rate of speed, but could it have been moving erratically, that kind of thing.

Authorities at the beginning of the NTSB briefing, and at the end, encouraged any witnesses, anyone who actually witnessed the crash, heard

the crash, maybe had video after the crash, to come forward. All of these will be vital clues that they need because, you know, their goal here is

not only to determine what happened, but also to determine why it happened because the whole goal of the NTSB is to try to prevent this from ever

happening again.

And another critical issue that`s going to come up, and it`s going to be one debated nationally, and that is the issue of seatbelts on board this

bus. Would it have saved lives in this particular crash? The NTSB says they will be ruling on that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:15:22]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Children ranging from kindergarten to 5th grade were inside the bus that crashed on Talley Road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were multiple fatalities.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parents of children literally running up, you know, trying to figure out if their children is one of the children that was

hurt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) my phone (INAUDIBLE) about 10:30 or 10:45 last night.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was my only child!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Tonight, Chattanooga, Tennessee, is mourning. And investigators are focusing on how fast the bus was going before it slammed into a tree,

killing five school children. One nearby resident said the impact was so strong, it knocked her power out.

I want to go right now to Rusty Haight. He is an accident reconstructionist. He is the director of Collision Safety Institute in San

Diego. Thank you so much for joining us.

We do know the NTSB is on the scene. They have begun their investigation now. And they say they are going to be retrieving that black box. What

can the black box of the bus tell them?

W.R. RUSTY HAIGHT, ACCIDENT RECONSTRUCTIONIST: Hi. Thanks for having me. What we`re referring to as a black box is the engine computer on that bus.

And the engine computer can give us things like -- depending on how it`s set up, can tell us things like how fast it was going, the amount of

acceleration applied, you know, the gas pedal, braking and that sort of thing. They`re going to combine with that the video.

And the Chattanooga PD is the guy -- or they`re the guys that are getting all this together. That accident investigation team is working to get all

the scene information, too, to supplement the information from the engine control unit. And together, that should give them a pretty good picture of

how this happened.

CASAREZ: So what`s the scene information that is most critical?

HAIGHT: The scene information`s going to be, for example, tire marks. If the bus was going so fast that it was leaving marks on the road or even on

the shoulder of the road, leading up to the point where it sounds like it may have hit an embankment and then rolled, those sorts of marks are going

to give them a better picture of what was happening leading up to the point where the bus was basically in an irretrievable condition and it was going

to roll over. It was going to barrel roll, and the roof was headed for that tree.

It`s a bigger picture than just what happened at the very end. What happened at the very end might be useful to tell us if there was something

structurally about the bus that could change. What was leading up to that point is what will tell them, you know, what else they can change in terms

of the road or the driver behavior or other driver behaviors out there.

CASAREZ: But Rusty, the pictures that we`re seeing of this bus, how it ended up, that the tree basically is cutting the bus in half, severing it,

the bus wrapped around the tree. I mean, that is huge. What must have happened? The impact must have been so strong, aren`t I right, to have

this be the end result?

HAIGHT: Oh, the impact was huge. You can -- I`ve seen video and pictures of the bus once it was up on a truck, on a flatbed as they were towing it

away to have it inspected. And you can see the whole right side is collapsed in, and just -- I guess just rearward to midway on the bus, right

near one of the escape hatches. You can see where they contacted the tree and it just -- it just shredded the roof. It just tore through the roof

probably down to the seat level.

It was an enormous impact, and that was a function of the speed and the sheer mass of the bus together, and the tree. The tree`s an improvable

object. It stayed there. And unfortunately, the bus hit it with probably one of its softest parts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:22:58]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A nightmare that became reality when a deadly school bus crashed carrying more than 30 children from Woodmore Elementary

lost control and crashed into a tree after it flipped over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to this child that was on the bus, he said that the driver was driving really fast and that he lost control. And

before he knew it, the bus was on its side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Authorities are looking into the driving record and the background of the man behind wheel in the deadly elementary school bus

crash.

Martin Savidge is joining us from Chattanooga, Tennessee, tonight. Martin, Johnthony Walker, who has been charged in this case -- what do we know --

what did he tell authorities? We know he actually called his mother right after the crash?

SAVIDGE: He did, that according to Gwenevere Cook, who`s the woman who`s coming forward and identified herself to CNN as being the mother of the bus

driver.

And she paints a mixed picture. First of all, she did send out condolences, heartbreaking condolences on behalf of the families who have

lost. She also asked for some compassion for her son. She said that he`s 24. He at one time held down two jobs. He`s a good kid. He was liked by

everybody.

And at one point immediately after the accident, he did call her to say that there had been a disastrous accident and that he was there. And he

tried tell her more, but then the police came and took the phone away because, of course, he`s now part of that investigation. So she spoke

about her son.

And we have to point out here that this is very early in the investigation. There are people who are very angry at this bus driver because of what the

initial scene seems to portray, speed and impropriety. We have to wait for the full investigation here. And so a mother is, of course, heartbroken

for the loss of other mothers, but also, too, worried about her son. So that`s what makes this all so much a tragedy, Jean.

CASAREZ: Martin Savidge, thank you so much for joining us from Chattanooga, Tennessee.

And right now, we do have the police chief of the Chattanooga Police Department joining us, Chief Fletcher. Thank you, Chief, for joining us.

[20:25:00]You have charged Johnthony Walker with five counts of vehicle homicide, prosecutors have, reckless endangerment and reckless driving. To

your knowledge, what was the probable cause that allowed prosecutors to file these charges so quickly?

FRED FLETCHER, CHATTANOOGA POLICE CHIEF (via telephone): There are a variety of factors, but the bottom line is that the driving was reckless

and unsafe for the conditions at the time, that the basis for the reckless driving and the reckless endangerment, and because lives were lost, the

vehicular homicide charges.

CASAREZ: What has he said to you?

FLETCHER: He has not spoken with me. Investigators have spoken with him briefly, and they had a chance to interview him. And we have served

warrants on him for his blood, and the investigation continues.

CASAREZ: Now, did you do a breathalyzer test at the scene? Are you doing a toxicology test at this point? I think you said you did draw some blood?

FLETCHER: We seized blood through a search warrant and that has been sent off to our state lab for processing.

CASAREZ: OK. Now, he called his mother. We know that. Did he call 911?

FLETCHER: I don`t have any indication that he called 911.

CASAREZ: How soon after the crash did he call his mother?

FLETCHER: I don`t have information on when he called his mother.

CASAREZ: Has he at all confessed? Has he made any statements at all that indicate an acceptance of the responsibility of this?

FLETCHER: He`s made a number of statements. That`s part of the ongoing investigation that we`re not prepared to share at this moment.

CASAREZ: There was a previous incident in September. Can you tell us just the facts and circumstances? He was driving a bus. He had been licensed

to drive a bus as a commercial driver. What happened in September?

FLETCHER: Apparently, there was some minor incident with striking another vehicle. I have not seen that report. My investigators are pulling that

and compiling it into the case file which will be used as part of entire dossier for prosecution.

CASAREZ: So what is next in the investigation?

FLETCHER: We have a great deal of evidence to compile. We did a highly detailed scan of the scene. We are working with state police inspectors,

the National Traffic Safety Board to process the vast amount of evidence we have, which includes physical evidence, but also a number of witness

statements that we need to obtain. So there`s quite a bit more evidence to gain as we proceed towards the future court date, including a grand jury

hearing.

CASAREZ: You know, Chief, we do see the scene. We see the bus. We know what happened. We know there are victims. We also have heard that parents

rushed to the scene because this is a school bus that went up and down their road every single day. They knew the bus. They knew or had children

on the bus. Were there children that were ejected from that bus because of what happened?

FLETCHER: I don`t know if any children were ejected. I can tell you that anybody who works in public safety, in emergency medicine will tell that

you a school bus crash is our worst nightmare. But as bad as it is for us, that`s inconceivably small compared to how bad it is for the family.

I just left a vigil that was quite literally standing room only of community, neighbors and friends that were out here to support the family.

They`re going through a tremendous amount of grief, and we`re lucky to live in a community that is here to support them in the aftermath and that

trauma that follows a tragic incident like this.

CASAREZ: Two days before Thanksgiving.

FLETCHER: Yes, ma`am.

CASAREZ: Was there a driver behind the school bus who would be virtually an eyewitness? Have you talked to that person? Are you looking for that

person?

FLETCHER: There are multiple witnesses, at least one person who called in to 911 and other people who saw it. They have been identified and they

have been interviewed, and they will probably be interviewed again.

CASAREZ: Have you interviewed the school children at all that are able to give statements at this point?

FLETCHER: That`s going to be a little bit lengthier process because it takes different set of procedure to interview children properly and

effectively. But that is part of the complicated, sophisticated investigation that will ensue.

CASAREZ: Now, we do know that there are six children that are still fighting for their lives. They`re in critical care, ICU in the hospital.

Have they been having surgeries? What is the status of these young children as far as life itself?

FLETCHER: I`m glad you mentioned that because that`s quite obviously amongst our highest concerns, along with supporting the families that lost

children. They`re lucky to be in a very capable and sophisticated level one trauma center that we`re fortunate to have here in Chattanooga.

And I met with those doctors, those surgeons, those specialists today, and they`re doing everything they can to help those children have a successful

recovery.

[20:30:00] But they have a challenging road ahead of them, and I hope that our community and your viewers will keep them in their thoughts and

prayers.

CASAREZ: And chief, one more question before we let you go. What can our country do to help you? Because we want to rally behind Chattanooga, and I

know the lines for blood were out the door so that you had to take appointments for people to donate blood. But what is your message to the

country?

FLETCHER: That Chattanooga hears you, and that they see you. This is our second major tragedy in a little over a year. And Chattanooga is a

resilient city and they appreciate the outpouring of support from across the country. And they want you to go show your children love and to go and

enjoy your family and realize that every day is precious, and that tomorrow might not come.

[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a MVC with a school bus. The bus is flipped over. It`s occupied with children. Correction, they`ve changed the address.

313 Talley. 3-1-3 Talley Road. It`s gonna be a MVC involving a school bus flipped off the roadway. It is occupied with children. They believe there`s

ejections. EMS is started.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the back, I can see an arm moving, but I don`t know if anybody can get to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: We do want to give you the latest tonight on the school bus crash in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Six children are still fighting for their lives

in the children`s hospital. Five children are victims. They perished in the school bus accident. And six others are in stable condition, but yet still

in the hospital.

I want to go back out to the police chief of Chattanooga. Chief Fletcher, thank you for taking the time. I know how busy you are. But I want to talk

for a second because you have charged someone. The bus driver. Johnthony Walker, 24 years old, five counts of vehicular homicide, reckless

endangerment, and reckless driving. Has bail been set for this young man?

FLETCHER: Bail was reported as set and then as I was going into the visual, I heard from the district attorney and there was a report that it was being

reset. I do not know the answer to that question. I hope to learn that first thing in the morning.

CASAREZ: Interesting. Being reset would mean they would have to go back to a judge, prosecutors asking for conceivably more bail due to.

FLETCHER: I would not read too much into my language. That`s not what I intended to say.

CASAREZ: Okay. All right. Let me ask you this. I know you are the police chief, not the prosecutor, but you work hand in hand with them. With this

previous incident that occurred with him driving a bus two months ago and now with this, is there any chance that these charges can be upgraded?

Because obviously, the knowledge he had of what it meant to drive a bus and what can happen when you`re driving a bus, he had that information. He had

that knowledge. And that state of mind is important when you`re charging someone with the knowledge.

FLETCHER: Yes. It is absolutely conceivable that the charges could either change or we could add additional charges. I have visited with the district

attorney general here in Hamilton County. And that is something that will evolve before the grand jury hears evidence we have at the time.

CASAREZ: All right. I want to go to Mark Geragos, defense attorney, joining us out of Los Angeles. If you are defending this young man who was involved

in a bus accident two months ago, he was driving. We don`t know if children were in the bus at that time, Mark.

We know children were not in the front of the bus, but he side swiped a car and it was documented. It was a negligent action. How are you going to

represent this guy when he already was involved in a previous accident?

MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the previous accident may not come in, number one. Number two, I -- you would focus, whoever is going to

defend him, is not going to focus on the prior accident. They`ll have all of their focus on this one.

Number one, they`ll want to see the toxicology on the blood. That is going to be vital because if they`re ever going to upgrade this case from a

vehicular manslaughter to a murder, they`re going to want to see that there is something in his bloodstream in the toxicology.

And number two, if there is a black box, if there is some way to measure what the speed is other than through an accident reconstructionist, that`s

going to be vital as well.

I mean, I`ve tried cases in Tennessee. I have familiarity, a little bit with their code sections there. And it all -- a lot of this is going to

depend on how fast that bus was going, how far over if it was over the speed limit, and whether or not it was reckless or being driven recklessly.

And we don`t know what his statements are. For all we know, if he swerved, if he was trying to avoid something else, all of those things are going to

become vitally important. I will tell you that the person who really is the entity that ought to be worried about this is the bus company.

If you take a little look at what they`ve been doing in their history here, that`s what is scary. As a parent, if I knew the history of this bus

company, there is no way I would get my child or grandchild on one of those buses.

CASAREZ: You know, Troy Slaten, former prosecutor joining us also out of Los Angeles, that`s a really good point right there as Mark is saying

because the bus company had knowledge about the previous accident. The bus company had knowledge because parents had already been complaining about

his driving.

Is there only civil liability there? Or can the bus company ever be charged criminally in any way? Such as a parent allowing the child to have the gun

because some states allow the parent to be charged.

[20:40:00] TROY SLATEN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: It seems like there is really only civil liability here for the bus company, Jean. And Mark Geragos is an

amazing defense attorney. And you see how he diverted the blame here from Mr. Walker to the bus company. This is a case about choices and

responsibility.

If the reports are true that Mr. Walker was driving over 30-miles-per-hour above the speed limit, his conduct is then outrageous, it`s shocking, and

vehicular homicide charges will be easy to prove. And that`s a class B felony in Tennessee which carries up to 8 to 10 years, 8 to 20 years

rather, in prison.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was the gotcha moment that finally pressured Steven Williams to confess to killing his ex-wife?

[20:45:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a video of this person walking up the street.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hundreds of hours of scouring surveillance tape paid off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as I saw that, we got him. I knew it had to be him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: When Tricia Todd, a mother, hospice nurse, and air force veteran, vanished, it took weeks until her ex-husband led investigators to her

dismembered body in a fresh grave. I want to go straight out to Joel Malkin right now. He is news director from 1290 WJNO, joining us from West Palm

Beach, Florida.

You know, Joel, we covered this in May so I think our viewers are going to remember this story. But I know that when we cover something that has to do

with a missing person, I follow it. Because I want to know exactly what happened. You hope they`re going to be found. Joel, this is -- this is the

most worse case scenario ending I think you could ever hope for. What has happened?

JOEL MALKIN, NEWS DIRECTOR, 1290 WJNO: Sheriff William Snyder there in Martin County called this the most gruesome thing that he has ever

encountered. And he`s been in law enforcement a long time.

CASAREZ: Well, start from the beginning. Because this was a mother. She was in Florida. And she was divorced from her husband who lived, where Joel?

North Carolina?

MALKIN: Yeah. He lived in North Carolina. He was stationed there. The air force base. And came to have visitation with their toddler daughter. They

have been about 10 years, but no longer been married at this point, have been divorced. And came to spend some time with daughter. But apparently,

had other things in mind.

CASAREZ: So Tricia Todd goes missing. She just disappears. So police go straight to him because he was the last one to see her. She was with him

because of their child. There are various stories, Joel, that he says, just briefly tell us what were his stories?

MALKIN: Well, he had stories that you know, first, he didn`t know what happened to her. He had the little girl. And she never came, that`s Tricia

Todd, never came to pick the daughter up. So, you know, he hadn`t heard from her.

Then he changed the story to, well, he came into the house and saw that she was laying there dead. So he didn`t want to be accused of anything. So he

just disposed the body. And then eventually -- he changed his tune three or four times. There were several different stories. Eventually he admitted to

the fact that he had planned all along to kill her.

He had the hole dug in the Hungryland Preserve which is a wildlife preserve. And he had a container filled with acid there. And it was there

for a whole day just waiting for him to get the nerve to kill the mother of his child. Very horrible.

CASAREZ: A premeditated crime. Tonight we have joining us, and it is very brave to come on the air to talk with us. It is Nathan Todd. He is the

brother of Tricia Todd. Mr. Todd, first of all, your sister was an air force veteran. She served our country.

She is the people that we care about and we want to care about and for such a thing to happen to her, I think we`re seeing a picture of her right here.

How did you find out that your sister had actually been murdered by her ex- husband?

NATHAN TODD, BROTHER OF TRICIA TODD: Well, obviously, we didn`t really know until he confessed. There were definitely thoughts and ideas. But we -- I

found out. I got a call from my mom when she had figured out, once he confessed.

CASAREZ: Now, we know that he confessed and one of the aspects of the deal was to find her body. He led them to where he had dismembered her and then

buried her. Were you in favor of that being part of the deal? So he actually could get a lighter sentence?

TODD: Well, I`m not a judge. In all honesty, it`s not really -- it`s -- I don`t really know how to answer that one, I guess. I`m not really -- I`m

happy he didn`t get a death sentence, if that`s what you`re asking, I`m happy he didn`t. I didn`t really think that and some people think that`s

not very fair. Well, I`m not going into that. But, yeah, I`m happy he didn`t get it. I want him.

CASAREZ: It sounds like you that you have arrived at some peace with all of this.

[20:50:00] But I want to go to Lieutenant Dougherty who is joining us. He is with the Martin County Sheriff`s Department in Palm Beach Gardens,

Florida. Sir, let me ask you. I know that he ultimately confessed, led you to the body. How did you find out that he had dismembered her? And you

actually then located when he purchased the saw and when and where he purchased the acid. Just take us through the investigation.

MIKE DOUGHERTY, LIEUTENANT, MARTIN COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: Good evening. Part of the problem with the plea deal was at that time we didn`t

know that he had dismembered her. At that point, one of the many confessions that he had given us was that he had been responsible for her

death. And he was willing to take us to where he had left her.

Part of the plea deal was he will bring us to her body and we met with the family who agreed that returning the body was number one. So we went

through with the plea deal. And immediately after, Steven Williams got in the vehicle with myself and several others and took us out to the

Hungryland Nature Preserve where he brought us to the precise location of Tricia Todd`s remains.

CASAREZ: And I want to tell everyone, that is the tub that includes the body of Tricia Todd.

DOUGHERTY: Yes, ma`am. It was about two foot by three foot tub and probably about three to four feet under the earth. And he had it buried in a nature

preserve that was several thousand acres.

[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After weeks of lies and only after he secured a plea deal, Williams led to the site where he had a chainsaw and a container full

of acid waiting that night and where he buried Tricia`s remains.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: After she went missing, Tricia Todd`s remains were discovered in plastic bags and buried with acid. How she died was a murder mystery. The

alleged killer helped solve. I wanted to go to Troy Slaten, former prosecutor. You know, you look at this deal, I want to give you the facts

here, all right, I want your analysis of this.

Steven Williams is 31 years old. He pleaded guilty to second-degree murder, child neglect, received a sentence of 35 years. He will get out of prison

and this is Florida, so he probably will serve the full time when he is 66 years old.

So you tell me, is this is a plea deal where justice is served when a man who murders, cuts up a body, puts acid on it so it is hardly recognizable

and buries it in a box, has justice been served?

SLATEN: You know, it may not sound like to it some people, but I think so here, Jean. Sometimes as a prosecutor, you have to make a deal with the

devil. And sometimes, in a jury trial, juries acquit when they should convict. Sometimes, they convict when they should acquit. Sometimes, they

get it right.

In this case, being able to take the danger of litigation and the danger of doing something like what happened in the O.J. case or the Casey Anthony

case, it is better to have 35 years than possibly get acquittal. And here also, the family gets closure. They get their family member back. They get

to bury the remains. And prosecutors get to close the case.

CASAREZ: You know, Mark Geragos, I don`t know what your thoughts are, but I think this is a darn good defense attorney because he negotiated a deal.

Client obviously having the last word prosecutor having the very last word, and the judge. But there could have been more charges here.

There truly could especially when they find that the body has been mutilated like that. The desecration of a corpse. But the deal was entered

into. It was a done deal. And so only charged with the second-degree murder and convicted.

GERAGOS: Well, you know, there is a certain degree of kind of inexplicable irony to this. Because normally, when you`re talking about the death

penalty, one of the main arguments about capital punishment is always, well, you don`t know about a confession. You don`t know if the confession

is fault. Are we sure about the crime or anything else?

Here, you`ve got somebody who actually led the authorities to the body. You don`t get much better evidence than that. That really is a false

confession. You proved it. You said it. And you`ve done it. And here you go. So there is kind of, somebody who took responsibility for the most

heinous of heinous acts and you get a bonus for it.

There is something that gnaws at me about that. It is kind of the reason that I have such a problem with the federal criminal justice system.

Because it is almost like you got a bonus whenever you roll over on somebody, whenever you give something. I mean, this -- look, not knowing

all the facts, none of use here know all the facts, what the prosecutors knew before they made this deal.

It may have been that the prosecutor thought that they couldn`t prove this case or that there was some real jeopardy of maybe a hung jury or something

else. And you have a family who obviously, the victim`s family, wants closure to some degree. So I understand all of this. But there is really an

inexplicably irony to all of it. And part of the reason that some people get disgusted by the criminal justice system.

CASAREZ: Really good point, Mark. Excellent points. They did find where he purchased the hacksaw and also got surveillance video of buying that acid.

So premeditated. But that acceptance of responsibility really helped him.

Thank you to all of our guests tonight. Thank you for watching. I`m Jean Casarez. We will see you back here tomorrow night 8:00 sharp for Primetime

Justice. Thank you so much for joining us. Forensic Files starts right now.

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