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Trump Disavows White Supremacist Group; Trump Meets with "NYT" After Cancelling; Trump Foundation Broke the Law. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired November 23, 2016 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:32:48] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Back to our breaking news, President-elect Trump just told "The New York Times" he disavows a white supremacist group using his name to push its racist ideology. This comes after calls grew louder and louder for Trump to strongly condemn this meeting over the weekend of hundreds of nationalists.
They gathered in Washington, D.C., at the Reagan building. This is just a couple of blocks from the White House. You hear the cheers. They cheered on Trump's victory with a Nazi salute.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD SPENCER, NEO-NAZI GROUP LEADER: America was until this past generation a white country, designed for ourselves and our posterity. It is our creation. It is our inheritance. And it belongs to us.
(APPAUSE)
SPENCER: Hail Trump! Hail our people! Hail victory!
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Joining me, CNN political commentator and Trump supporters Paris Dennard; also, Charles Kaiser is with us, a CNN.com contributor and the author of multiple books, including, "The Cost of Courage, The Story of How One French Family Fought the Nazis During the Paris Occupation."
Gentlemen welcome.
CHARLES KAISER, CNN.COM CONTRIBUTOR & AUTHOR: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Thank you.
Charles, let me begin with you.
We're getting the information coming out of this "New York Times" meeting that Trump has disavowed this particular group. Is that enough for you?
KAISER: Well, I'm delighted that Mr. Trump has visited my alma mater at "The New York Times" and says he doesn't want to do this anymore but I want to give him a little advice for the future if he doesn't want to stimulate the Alt-Right. First thing, he should never retweet someone with the name "white genocide" who lists his address as Jew America. That's what he did in February. He should never ask his supporters again to give the Nazi salute, which he did at a rally in March. Not a good idea. In July, I think it was a mistake --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Wait, when did he say that?
[14:35:00] KAISER: In March, he asked his supporters to raise and pledge their support to his candidacy and promise to vote for him. There's plenty of video of that. Then in July, he retweeted an image of his opponent with the six-pointed Jewish star on it. I thought that was a mistake.
But we have bigger problems here. Also in July, you know, he selected as his vice president, the most homophobic man in American public life, a person who believes gay people actually do not have the right to exist. And then if you don't want to Alt-Right, don't choose as a White House counselor a man who uses the word "nigger," whose wife says he did not want his daughters to go to a school with too many Jews. And don't choose as an attorney general a man who calls the NAACP an un-American organization and who we learned in the "Guardian" today went so far as to prosecute --
(CROSTALK)
BALDWIN: Charles, just hang on a second. I appreciate you going through all of this but please don't use the "N" word on my show.
KAISER: I'm sorry.,
PARIS DENNARD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you, Brooke. I appreciate that.
KAISER: I never use the "N" word except when I'm quoting someone who's been appointed by the president to serve in the Oval Office, since this is such a disgusting moment in our history.
BALDWIN: Let me go back to my original question. Currently, the fact that Mr. Trump has disavowed this group, is that enough?
KAISER: You know, actions speak louder than words. And all of his actions have been things that encouraged groups like these. By appointing Jeff Sessions as attorney general. By appointing Bannon as a White House counselor. You can't do one thing and then expect the other to happen. And just peering into the camera on "60 Minutes" and sayings, "don't do it," doesn't seem to be very effective.
BALDWIN: Paris, let me hear from you. Is it enough for you?
DENNARD: First of all, Brooke, I appreciate you making that comment about the utilization of the "N" word. It's highly offensive and inappropriate. And I appreciate that. The second point is this. I believe, it is enough. I believe Mr.
Trump has to say these things, not every single time, because you can't go down the list every time some crazy whack job on the far extremist white supremacist says something in support of you. But a gathering this large of people doing these things, which I think might be more of a P.R. political stunt, is appropriate and the right thing to do. Looking into the camera is the right thing to do because at this point --
(CROSSTALK)
KAISER: How do you feel when he retweets people like this?
(CROSSTALK)
DENNARD: Sir, I do not interrupt you. Give me the respect I gave you.
KAISER: How do you feel about that?
DENNARD: I'm going to tell you right now.
I believe it's appropriate the president-elect looks into the camera and says this is inappropriate, stop it. Words matter. And he's now the president-elect. So, he sets the tone. And the things he's doing, it's appropriate and the right thing to do.
BALDWIN: But what about Steve Bannon, Paris, to Charles's point. "Breitbart," the most prominent platform for what we just showed, the video we just showed, the Nazi salute, the while supremacists in this country. Are you OK with having Steve at the White House, Paris?
DENNARD: Yeah, I'm fine with Steve Bannon being the chief strategist because I trust the president-elect's judgment. But I also know people who work for -- let me just tell you a quick story. I was on this program, on CNN. They were in the war room of Trump headquarters. Steve Bannon was watching the show on CNN and said, "Who's that guy speaking on behalf of Mr. Trump." A colleague said, "That's Paris Dennard, I used to work with him in the White House." He said, "He's fantastic, we need more people like him speaking out, let's help get him on our team as a surrogate."
I know people at "Breitbart" in Los Angeles who told me he happens to be Jewish-American. The two people in the office, one is Mexican- American, the other is African-American. That's the "Breitbart" that I know.
KAISER: Well, the "Breitbart" that we know is the one who says that --
(CROSSTALK)
DENNARD: Sir, your interruptions are inappropriate.
So, the point is there are people who work at "Breitbart" every day -- and I will be totally transparent. Are there things on "Breitbart" that I don't like that I don't think should be there? Sure. There are things on "Drudge Report" that I don't like. There are people you put on this program on CNN I don't like. But it's a platform and --
(CROSSTALK)
KESIER: How do you feel about the tone he's set by appointing an attorney general who was denied a federal judgeship because of extensive evidence that that he is a racist? How do you feel about that?
DENNARD: First of all, I don't think you're the host of the show so I won't answer questions from you.
But I will say --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: The point -- we made the point multiple times on the allegations you're referring to, Jeff Sessions in the late '80s, and he was denied the judgeship in Alabama because of the allegations. He, I know, has refuted the claims he is racist. But it's a point taken from Charles's side.
(CROSSTALK)
KAISER: He's denied it. I wouldn't say he's refuted it.
BALDWIN: Denied it. Denied it. But that will make for a contentious confirmation hearing.
DENNARD: Brooke, the easiest thing for people to do is use the race card to divide this country. I think Senator Sessions is an honorable man. I think he's doing a great job. I know, particularly, HBCU (ph), he's been a strong to proponent of them, and many of them come from the south, and I know he represents them, so I believe he'll be someone confirmed.
And we can look at everyone's history. I'm sure the person sitting next to me on this program has said some things he would regret.
[14:40:10] KAISER: I think it's shameful any African-American would support this man to be attorney general.
DENNARD: Sir, you know why? You know what? I don't question your allegiance to the people you support. I will tell you why I support Mr. Trump who's the president-elect, because I think he will do good things for this country, and particularly good things for my community.
KAISER: How do you feel when President-elect Trump --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: All right, gentlemen, I'm going to -- We're done. We're done.
Appreciate both your voices.
DENNARD: Brooke, thank you.
BALDWIN: I am still -- the more I've sat here and listened to the fact that somebody used the "N" word on this show -- it is not OK. It is not OK.
Charles Kaiser, I respect you. I enjoy having you as a guest, but it's not OK.
By the way, the claim that Mr. Bannon used the "N" word, I've never heard of this. So, there's that.
Take a break.
(CROSSTALK)
[14:45:05] BALDWIN: President-elect Trump met with "The New York Times" after all today. There was first a little bit of drama and a Twitter battle earlier this morning. Trump tweeted, "I canceled failing "New York Times" when the terms and conditions of the meeting were changed at the last moment. Not nice." But hours late, Trump changed his mind. You saw the pictures as he was walking out of the lobby of "The New York Times" with journalists and opinion writers.
So, as we stay on this, Dan Abrams is joining me, the founder of Mediaite and is an ABC News legal analyst.
And, Dan Abrams, how are you?
DAN ABRAMS, FOUNDER, MEDIAITE: I'm great.
BALDWIN: Let's begin with the fascinating back story of how - apparently, "The New York Times" found out the meeting wasn't a go because of the tweet. Then it was back on. And then, you know, we've all been hanging on everyone's last word because so much news has been made out of this on-the-record meeting.
ABRAMS: Well, it's a combination o4 news being made based on what Trump said and the fact that he said it to "The New York Times." I mean, if you were going to pick the perennial media enemy, according to the Trump supporters, the villain, it's "The New York Times," right, they're the place that treats Trump the most unfairly, they're the ones out to get him more than anyone and so the fact he has this meeting with "The New York Times," the fact that he answers all of these in-depth questions and they're all sitting there tweeting it live is sort of I think telling for what to expect in the Trump administration moving forward. Look, I just hope he keeps having on- t-record conversations with the media. I was getting worried he was going to start demanding all of these meetings be off the record.
BALDWIN: That's where I was going next. It's almost like a tale of two meetings. You have the off-the-record meetings in Trump Tower yesterday where who knows what was discussed because there were so many versions of sources saying X, Y, Z. Then you have the on-the- record meeting at the "Times" today. How do you think this is going to go for the next four years?
ABRAMS: Of course, CNN was there at the off-the-record meeting, as was ABC and NBC, all these other places. But I don't have a problem with them having off-the-record meetings. That's OK. What it can't do is end up occurring instead of on-the-record meetings. It can't be that Trump says, "Hey, I met with the media, I won't hold a press conference but I met with the media off the record." That can't be the compromise. But it's OK for, on occasion, the president-elect to say I want to meet with members of the media. President Obama has had various meetings with members of the media that have been off the record. That's not a problem. The problem would only be if it wasn't in conjunction with some significant amounts of on-the-record. And I was glad to see "New York Times" reporters there were tweeting away.
BALDWIN: I remember being in Washington election week and I was talking to different members of the White House Correspondents Association, and even then they were furious because the press wasn't part of the motorcade to taking Trump to the Oval Office, to meet with the president, and there were all kinds of -- it was like a waterfall of concern as far as how will this look moving forward. If you're the president-elect -- and we know this particular president-elect doesn't do things the way past presidents have -- how will this go?
ABRAMS: I'm concerned as a member of the media. Donald Trump has said overtly he wants to change the libel laws. He really can't do that. Things he could do. He could make tougher FCC restrictions. He could go after the corporate parents of media organizations. He could appoint justices who would make it easier to sue the media. There are a lot of things he could do which would be very anti-media. And as a member of the media, that concerns me. I don't think that's a good thing. I'm hoping some of that was talk but we'll have to see.
BALDWIN: I'll join you in being concerned, but hopeful, because of this meeting at, of all places, "The New York Times."
Dan, thank you. Thank you. To be continued.
ABRAMS: Good to see you, Brooke.
[14:49:19] BALDWIN: Thank you.
Coming up next, we are keeping our eye on live pictures inside the White House. This is a mega impressive ceremony. The presidential Medal of Freedom ceremony set to begin. You have Diana Ross, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Tom Hanks, all on the list of these honorees. We will take you there and watch for ourselves.
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BALDWIN: A new report today that the Trump Foundation broke the law. We are learning President-elect Trump's own charity is admitting that, yes, it used donation dollars to benefit either the Trump family or the Trump business.
David Farenthold, of the "Washington Post, telling CNN just now the foundation violated a ban on self-dealing. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID FARENTHOLD, REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST (voice-over): One of the basic laws of running a charity is you can't take money out of your charity and use it to buy something for the president of the charity or to buy something for the president of the charity's business. And what the Trump Foundation is admitting is that in the past, in 2015, and before that, it violated those rules. It took money out of the charity and spent it to benefit someone who ran the charity, presumably Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Joining me now, Drew Griffin, CNN's senior investigative correspondent; and Kristen Soltis Anderson, a Republican strategist and pollster and a columnist for the "Washington Examiner."
Drew Griffin, to you first.
Your reporting about Trump's overseas including a meeting with business partners from India and gifts exchanged with the Japanese p.m. Last week. What did you find?
[14:55:08] DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, we know he has worldwide business dealings. He has about 150 companies outside of the United States, which sounds like a lot, but it boils down to 17 properties that Trump either owns or has licensed his name to and has management deals. And the question has been going forward how is he going to separate the presidency from the business of Trump. And we have to examples that call that into he meets with two Indians who happened to have Trump properties south of Mumbai. And he meets with the British politician saying he doesn't want offshore windmills near his golf course in Scotland. So, while he is trying to set up this presidential transition and transition out of his business we see a question of conflict of interest.
BALDWIN: He addressed this, Kristin, in this on-the-record meeting in "The New York Times." I don't know if we have the tweets. He's basically saying -- and I'm paraphrasing -- he's the president, he's the boss.
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, POLLSTER & COLUMNIST, "WASHINGTON EXAMINER: There are two way this is could be a problem, someone political and one is legal. On the legal question, he has a lot of good attorneys trying to talk to him about what he can do over the next 60 days before he takes the oath of office and things get serious.
I want to focus on the question of, are we going to drain the swamp, are we going to get people who self-deal out of politics? Found a lot of potency in arguments about the Clinton Foundation, the idea that the Clintons were profiting off of their political influence. If Donald Trump, as president, is being viewed as profiting by his influence, able to secure it legally, do voters rebel against him? I think he's not doing what he pledged to do. Even though he won't get a honeymoon of majority of voters that say they think he'll do an OK job. Of majority of Clinton supporters who told pollsters like me they're playing wait and see. Let's see who Trump appoints and how he conducts himself. He's got about two months to figure this out. But if, after he becomes president, there are still allegations of this dealing, that he's profiting from his own level of influence as president, voters may not think he's so great. He may begin to lose some of that support.
BALDWIN: May or may not. I talked to a Trump supporters at the top of the show and it bit.
Kristen and Drew, thank you so much.
SOLTIS ANDERSON: Thank you.
BALDWIN: A quick reminder - thank you -- we have our eye on the White House. President Obama will take to the podium and award 21 people with the nation's highest civilian honor, the Medal of Freedom ceremony and the recipients. When you look at the list, this is a who's who, celebrities, sports stars, Bruce Springsteen, Ellen DeGeneres, Robert DeNiro, Michael Jordan, Bill Gates. We'll bring it live on CNN.
We'll be right back.
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[14:59:58] BALDWIN: These are just amazing moments we love to get to all watch in awe at the White House. This is the Medal of Freedom ceremony that will begin any moment now where, as we keep mentioning, these are - this is the highest award for a civilian in this country. President Obama, it's a packed house --
