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Castro's Death Causes Contrasting Reactions of Grief, Relief; Stein Responds to Trump's Attacks Over Recount; Inside Heavily- Fortified Trump Tower; Photographing Cuban Leader Fidel Castro; Melanie Trump and Son to Delay Move to White House. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 26, 2016 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:22] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Pamela Brown in for Poppy Harlow on this Saturday.

But to some a hero, to others a tyrant. Former Cuban leader Fidel Castro is dead at the age of 90 and Cuba, with flags at half staff, Castro's death marks the start of nine days of mourning. The Havana streets were quiet as people found out the leader who toppled the dictator and start a communist government and ruled over the island nation for nearly five decades has died. In Miami's Little Havana, a different scene.

Cuban exiles who escaped his regime dancing and singing in the streets as we see, popping champagne corks and waving the Cuban flag. For them they remember a ruthless tyrant who reneged on his promise of democracy, imprisoned and executed tens of thousands of opponents and brought the world to the brink of nuclear war.

CNN's Boris Sanchez joins me now from Little Havana, in Miami.

So, Boris, what types of stories are you hearing from people there on the street?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pam, there's a tremendous amount of elation on the streets right now. We're on Calle Ocho right outside Cafe Versailles. This is the epicenter of the Cuban exile community here in Miami. People are banging pots and pans, they're chanting. There are hundreds of Cuban flags here and this party is just getting started. The crowd has grown immensely since I got here and people are holding pictures of their loved ones that they lost, either through the revolution, through political oppression on the island or who simply couldn't be here today.

People that have been waiting for this moment for a long time. As a matter of fact, I actually want to speak to someone who I was just talking to a moment ago. This gentleman, Manuel, you were telling me just a moment ago that you were here to celebrate a day that you've been waiting for for a long time.

MANUEL GARCIA, CUBAN IMMIGRANT: Yes, it's bittersweet because my parents are not around anymore and like many older generation of Cubans, the older generations, they passed waiting for this day to come. They were -- Fidel was no longer in Cuba. You know, Fidel had already passed. SANCHEZ: You did get a chance, though, to share this moment with your

aunt. She's 90 years old and you told me that was really emotional for you. Why was it so emotional?

GARCIA: My mother passed only two and a half years ago and it would have been a beautiful experience for me to have this moment with her. But I had the pleasure of having it with my 90-year-old aunt today. And it was very emotional for her. She got interviewed also and they asked her, how does it feel? She goes, like my birthday is back. So this is very important, very -- you know, it's a great day for all Cuban people.

SANCHEZ: A lot of people watching this see the celebration here and they may not necessarily understand why people are celebrating someone's passing. But for people like yourself that fled the island for political reasons, why is it that today is so significant?

GARCIA: Because today is a day of hope, hope for the Cuban people to one day enjoy what we have in this country. We, the lucky ones, the ones that our parents were able to get out of there, come to this incredible country and one thing that the -- you know, Cuban exiles found out is that when you embrace this great country, it embraces you back and we want -- we would like to see this freedom, this democracy in our home country again.

SANCHEZ: All right. Manuel, thank you so much for speaking to us. We appreciate it.

Pam, as you can see, as we said before, the party just really starting here. The crowd continues to grow and there's not just elation there's also hope that this could mean a change on the island of Cuba.

BROWN: Yes. So much emotion there on the streets of Little Havana in Miami.

Boris Sanchez, thank you for bringing that to us. We appreciate it.

Fidel Castro will be laid to rest on December 4th after nine days of official national mourning in Cuba. His critics often accused Castro of violating human rights especially against those who opposed him.

Cuba released at least 53 political prisoners as part of its deal with the U.S. and my next is gathering personal stories of suffering under Castro's regime.

CNN political commentator Ana Navarro joins me now in Miami. In 2001, she served as ambassador to the U.N. Human Rights Commission and helped bring about a condemnation of Cuba's government over its human rights record.

So, Ana, thank you for coming on. You tweeted today, "If you know someone killed, jailed, beaten by Castro's thugs, tweet me name and story. I will re-tweet. People need to know he was a cruel despot."

Ana, tell me why these personal stories are so emotional for you and why it's so important to document? ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, this is such a

bittersweet moment, Pam. And it's bittersweet because -- it's sweet because on the one hand, it is the day that this cruel despot who ruled Cuba with an oppressive regime had come to his death.

[18:05:09] Fifty-seven years without democracy in that country. 57 years of firing squads, the political prisoners, of going after, attacking, beating political dissidents, of people taking to inner tubes and rafts in order to flee that regime. 57 years. Think of that. And it's bitter because there so many people who have died waiting to see this day. It -- you know, it reminded me of all my friends who have died without being able to set foot in a Cuba without a Fidel Castro, who wish they could have seen this day.

I drove down 8th Street today in Miami and I passed a cemetery. And I saw many people going in and putting little Cuban flags on the tombstones of their parents, of their loved ones because it is something that anybody who's lived in Miami, anybody who's been part of the Cuban American community understands the pain, the suffering that this community and the people of Cuba have suffered for so long.

BROWN: You seem so emotional, Ana. Tell us what you're feeling right now.

NAVARRO: You know -- what am I feeling? I'm thinking of my friend, Claudia, whose father was killed by a firing squad of Fidel Castro in 1951, whose uncle served 15 years as a political prisoner. I'm thinking of my friends, Roberto Martin Perez, who served 28 years as a political prisoner of Fidel Castro who had one testicle cut off. I'm thinking of my friend Armando (INAUDIBLE), who served 22 years in Castro's jail.

I'm thinking of all the families separated who could not see each other, who some of them had to die on one side of the Florida straits, the other on the other without seeing each other for decades. I'm thinking of all the people, all my friends who woke up this morning and the first thing they thought was, I wish my father, I wish my mother had been here to see this. That's what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking of so much death, so much sorrow, so much suffering that was brought about by this one man.

I can tell you, Pamela, that it's also very personal to me in another way. I had to flee a communist revolution in Nicaragua when I was a child, and Fidel Castro was directly involved with that. Fidel Castro was part of inciting, financing, provoking, promoting, helping revolutions all over Latin America. He waged international war in Latin America, in Africa and elsewhere. And people like me had to flee, countries like mine had to go through revolutions and civil wars and bloody, bloody battles because of Fidel Castro, Russia, the Cold War and his primary and personal involvement in all of this.

BROWN: And responses have been flooding in, in response to your tweet asking for stories and I want to read one of the responses you received. It says, "My grandfather killed by firing squad. My father spent 21 years in prison."

Ana, are stories like these, death by firing squad, how common are these among Cubans? Or unusual?

NAVARRO: They're very common. That's why it hurts so much to see some people try to portray Fidel Castro as a hero, as a martyr, as a saint. He wasn't. This was a sanguinary. This was a bloodthirsty dictator and he personally ordered firing squads to kill political opponents. You know, there were hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, thousands of political prisoners in jail, tortured, starved to death. People who died in hunger strikes for many years.

You've got to remember that this guy used to send gays to a reeducation camp called Lococos (PH). This was no saint. This is not somebody whose life we should be celebrating. And you know, yes, I know that for some people it may be hard to understand why Christians are celebrating a man's death. We're celebrating that man's death because that man cost a lot of death and a lot of pain in his lifetime.

Only thing I regret is that he died of old age in his bed. I wish he had come a lot earlier. It would have been a lot less painful for the people of Cuba.

BROWN: I just want to ask you, because you hear these horrific stories, Ana, and yet you do see people on the streets of Havana that we've actually shown mourning his death and saying, you know, that he was their great leader. I mean, how does that square? Do you think that they are, you know, secretly celebrating but they feel like they can't really show that outwardly as we've heard some people we've had on the show say or do you think they're actually mourning his death?

NAVARRO: Well, look, I think -- I think most definitely Fidel Castro has sympathizers within Cuba. I also know he's got dissidents and opponents, people like the Ladies in White who would march every Sunday and get beaten and attacked.

[18:10:07] And some of those people are in their homes. Some of those people, I can assure you, are being watched and harassed and the government, which is a repressive government with a huge military component, is, I'm sure, watching over their house and they're making sure that they're not out on the streets, that they are -- that there's no demonstrations in favor of democracy, celebrating Fidel's death in Cuba.

Yes, he has sympathizers. Yes, they saw him as a -- some of them saw him as a leader. Let's remember this guy was a great marketer. He was able to build this myth, this legend, this greater than life persona, and he was the Cuban leader for 57 years. He was seen by people who are anti-American, as the symbol of defiance against the United States. He was seen as -- he's a revolutionary with the beard who never stopped wearing his uniform and never stop fighting.

He was a larger than life figure. He was also, you know, very unique and I think a lot of the government depended solely on him. Despite the fact that there's been -- that his brother has been governing Cuba for the last several years because Fidel Castro has been infirmed. The symbolism of Fidel Castro, of that one man and what he did for many years is something that is -- you know, just escapes me how to describe it.

BROWN: All right. Ana Navarro, thank you so much for being with us and sharing your perspective.

NAVARRO: Thank you. Thank you.

BROWN: Coming up on this Saturday, Donald Trump has yet to reveal his pick for secretary of State and sources say the pool of names keeps growing. We look at the contenders up next.

Plus, inside Trump Tower. What it's like for the tenants living in one of the country's most heavily guarded building. We'll take you there.

And as the world reacts to the death of Fidel Castro, you can see a very different side of Cuba next hour. Tune in for CNN's special encore presentation of "PARTS UNKNOWN: CUBA" at 7:00 tonight. Anthony Bourdain was there last year and saw how the island was changing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST, "PARTS UNKNOWN": So it's been over 50 years since you, the American public, have been able to enjoy a fine Cuban rum and this is a very fine one, I can tell you, but it looks like all of that is about to change.

Floodgates have been let loose or will be soon, it sure looks like. The whole world is changing. What is that going to mean? Do we find out? I don't know. We make an educated guess. I don't know how educated. But we do make a guess.

Cuba. Next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:16:29] BROWN: President-elect Donald Trump is blasting the Green Party's Jill Stein, calling her effort to recount votes in several key states a scam. In a new statement released today, Trump says, in part, "This recount is just a way for Jill Stein to fill her coffers with money, most of which she will never even spend on this ridiculous recount. The results of this election should be respected instead of being challenged and abused which is exactly what Jill Stein is doing."

I talked to Stein earlier today about Trump's accusation that she's filling her coffers, as well as what she was hoping to get out of this recount. And here's part of that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. JILL STEIN, 2016 GREEN PARTY CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT: And for his information, this is actually all going into a dedicated and segregated account so that it can only be spent on the recount campaign. So, you know, he may be creating his own facts here, as he's been known to do sometimes in the past. And I think, you know, he himself said that it was a rigged election unless he won it. But I think that sort of, shall we say, not exactly compelling thinking is not particularly persuasive to the American people.

The point to drive home here is that having a secure elections process benefits us all. And I invite everyone. I invite Donald Trump's campaign, Hillary's campaign, we've had calls out to Gary Johnson's campaign, this should be a non-partisan, people-powered effort to ensure that we can rely on the integrity and the security of our votes.

BROWN: As it stands now, Dr. Stein, there is no -- there's no evidence that there was actually hacking on any of systems on Election Day to tamper with the outcome. And there were allegation, as you'll recall, leading up to Election Day that these alleged attempted hacks by Russia was really an effort to undermine our democracy by passing doubt on the election. Does pursuing a recount do the same thing?

STEIN: You know, I think what we need is confidence in our system. And we walk out of this election, you know, with American confidence, you know, at an all-time low. Over 80 percent of voters said that they were disgusted by the process of this election. And there's been an incredible loss of faith in our basic institutions of government. I don't think we fix this by just trying to sweep it under the rug.

BROWN: Let me just ask you because some people may look at your efforts and say you're trying to help Hillary Clinton here, that you're on Hillary Clinton's side with this. Is that true? And what is in this for you personally?

STEIN: You know, I would say what's in this for us as voters. We need to know that our votes are counted, that they're not being hacked, that they're not being tampered with. But as an independent political party, we need to know that our votes are being counted as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And coming up our panel weighs in on this recount and Donald Trump's strong reaction to the effort right after this break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:23:12] BROWN: For months, Trump insisted the presidential election was rigged, even suggesting at one point that he may not accept the results. But today, it's Trump who is slamming a push to recount votes in three key states, calling the effort, quote, "ridiculous" and "a scam." The Green Party's Jill Stein is leading this effort. She has already filed for a recount in Wisconsin and plans to do the same in Michigan and Pennsylvania.

And the Clinton campaign announced today it is joining the effort, even though it admits it's found no evidence of hacking.

Let's talk it other with my panel, with me now, Josh Rogin, CNN political analyst and "Washington Post" columnist, Scottie Nell Hughes, political editor at RightAlerts.com, she supported Trump throughout the election, and A. Scott Bolden, former chairman at the Washington, D.C. Democratic Party, he supported Hillary Clinton.

Thank you to the three of you for coming on -- coming back on, I should say.

Josh, first question to you. Jill Stein says this should be a non- partisan issue. Should that be the case?

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, listen, I think what -- there is a bipartisan consensus that this is not going to result in a change in the election results. And there's a bipartisan resistance to what Jill Stein is doing. So if she was looking to sort of unite the parties, she's done so effort in uniting them against her effort. You know, the Clinton campaign, if you read the statement from Marc Elias, made it very clear that they've looked into this, they haven't found any evidence of hacking, they haven't found any evidence of interference. But now that Jill Stein has gone forward with this recount, they feel an obligation to participate. They just want to make sure that they're there in the room to make sure everything goes OK.

What will the Donald Trump team do? Will they also feel that obligation to participate? I mean, there's no way to do a challenge of a national election without partisanship being involved. So I think Jill Stein is being a little disingenuous there, but overall both parties and both major candidates agree that this is probably not going to result in any substantive change to the results.

[18:25:07] BROWN: So there is this resistance, A. Scott, on that note. What is the point of this in your view? Do you think it will actually change the outcome?

A. SCOTT BOLDEN, FORMER CHAIRMAN, WASHINGTON, D.C. DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Well, it doesn't look like it's going to change the outcome but I think a different take on it. There's nothing really wrong with this. This is democracy. This is the election process working on to the law. She's got a right to do this, if you will, and Donald Trump has to participate because he doesn't want to be left out of the recount room.

Now that being said, we know that there were databases and e-mails that were hacked. There's nothing wrong with participating in these state recounts. Three states that Donald Trump only won by 100,000 votes and we know that there were some prior Russian interference in our election process. So -- and remember one last thing, no one is challenging the results of this election. They're merely asking for a recount and an audit of the processes to confirm.

My grandmother used to say, trust but verify, and that's what really is going on here.

BROWN: And, Scottie Nell, Trump is the one who during the campaign claimed throughout that the election would be rigged. Why would that suddenly not be the case now? SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's not that

it wouldn't be the case, there actually has to be evidence. And let's go back and remember in October, Hillary said, anyone not willing to accept the results of the election is a danger to democracy. Hillary Clinton herself said this. And everything from President Obama has been basically that they weren't going to challenge this because they believe in a smooth transition because that's what is best for our country.

Jill Stein does have the right to do it. Does it make it right? Because there's been no actual evidence produced, tangible evidence that she's done a press conference even in her interview with you, I was surprised that she did not give us any actual evidence to say why she believes this is happening. Just saying that you believe that some Russian hackers or someone sitting in their grandmother's basement in Russia might have caused these numbers, just doesn't necessarily works. You actually have to be able to have some reason for this happening. At this point she's just wasting her dollars and wasting people donating to her.

BROWN: Josh, what kind of precedent does this set? Go ahead. Josh?

ROGIN: I don't think -- I don't it sets any precedent. I think that this would be an anomaly. It's very rare for a candidate who actually had no chance of winning the election to mount this kind of challenge. I totally agree that she has the right to do it. I don't think it sort of helps either side sort of move past what's been a very contentious election season.

That being said, she's going to do it. And the Clinton team is going to participate. The Trump team is going to have to deal with it. That's just the reality and we're going to have to watch how this plays out. And I'll be the first one, if some evidence exists to point to the fact that what she's done has revealed that evidence but until some evidence exists, this looks like a fishing expedition and if it's a fishing expedition, that's going to be very costly and distracting and that has to be mentioned.

BROWN: OK, A. Scott --

BOLDEN: But, Pamela, wouldn't you want to know this? If there were some problems with the process, procedures or Russian hacking, or meddling, wouldn't you want to know that for the integrity of the process? And doesn't that go to her credibility? She has nothing to gain out of this and she's raised $6 million just to look, and by the way, under Wisconsin law, you don't need to have the evidence first and then say I want a recount. You go in, you ask for the recount, Wisconsin officials have accepted her petition, and they're going to do a recount and quite possibly an audit. And that's all within the legal framework. So nothing else really matters.

ROGIN: I mean, but if --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: A. Scott, would you still be on this -- have this viewpoint, though, if Hillary Clinton had won, would you still be sitting there saying -- you know.

BOLDEN: If -- if Hillary Clinton won, and Jill Stein or Donald Trump, or whomever else wanted a recount, not challenging the results, by the way, that's a key distinction, yes. We'd have to participate and they had every legal right to do so, and I don't think Hillary Clinton would be complaining about it. She'd be participating in it.

And think about this. If nothing changes, then we now know. Now we have confidence or more process in the voting process in these three states. What's Donald Trump afraid of?

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: No, no, no.

BROWN: Scottie Nell, go ahead. Scottie Nell.

HUGHES: That's not -- I don't think it's about Donald Trump being afraid. Donald Trump is actually trying to work on being president because that's what he was elected to do and try to put his transition team. This is just a pebble in a shoe. He's going to send a lawyer, too, to go watch this. But the question is, the timing of it. There was real evidence -- if there was a real problem with it. I know it shocks you that people of the working class did not vote for the Democrats, I know that's hard for you to believe, Scott, that you guys --

BOLDEN: It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

HUGHES: So out of touch -- but the truth is this is two weeks after the election, this is just throwing mud at the wind, once again, to get attention, and for Jill Stein to have some reason to do some sort of fund raising money, and that's all this is. Accept it and move on. Why don't we go frozen and let it go?

BOLDEN: Well, Hillary Clinton certainly hasn't challenged the results of the election. She's conceded.

HUGHES: I said Jill.

BOLDEN: And all she's said is she's supporting the recount and Donald Trump in the end is going to support the recount, too, because he can't not afford not to be in the room and the law allows it.

[18:30:08] What is the big problem here? There's no problem. Let's just get it done.

BROWN: Josh, bring you in. Go ahead.

ROGIN: Yes. I just think by that logic we would just be recounting every election every single time and saying, what's the downside? I mean, the bottom line is that we have a system in this country where if the margin is close enough, there's an automatic recount. The margins here, if they're much larger than any recount that's ever been overturned in the history of our country. It's statistically almost impossible that the recount would turn in a different result. So again, we're in this now. We're going to do it. It's fine. It's legally fine, but it's ultimately going to amount to what I think is a distraction from the work of both parties to sort of put together a --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: But, quick, Josh, before we wrap this up. I mean, clearly a lot of people want this done. Millions of dollars have been raised. I mean, what do you make of that?

ROGIN: There's a lot of people who are -- have a lot of sore feelings after this election and I think that's totally legitimate. And -- again, people have the right to use their dollars to vote and they have the right to use their dollars to support this recount. No one is disputing that. I just want to let the viewers know that the result is going to be the same and therefore we're all engaged in this process and it's not clear what the ultimate benefit is.

Again, if there were evidence, I think a lot of people would be all for it, but until we see some evidence, it does seem like a bit of sour grapes.

BOLDEN: And that's what the recount and the audit is about, Pamela. Let's see what happens and guess what, what if the voting changes? What if the results changed?

HUGHES: See, that's --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDEN: Where do we go from there? And then we know.

HUGHES: That's the point right there. To have that --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDEN: But again, Hillary Clinton hasn't challenged the results. It's Jill Stein.

BROWN: There's a big -- yes.

BOLDEN: Hillary Clinton hasn't done that.

BROWN: So what if, key words there. Josh Rogin, Scott Bolden, Scottie Nell Hughes, thank you for that interesting discussion.

ROGIN: Thank you.

BROWN: And coming up on this Saturday, it's been home to celebrities like Michael Jackson, Bruce Willis and Donald Trump. CNN goes inside the heavily fortified Trump Tower, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:17] BROWN: It is one of the most secure buildings in New York. Trump Tower, home to the president-elect and his family. But the Trumps aren't the only ones who call the Fifth Avenue building home. And tonight we're taking you inside the building to see what it's like to be neighbors with the president-elect.

Here's Jean Casarez.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Trump Tower has always been a high-profile apartment and business complex. But now with armed guards 24/7 there can be no doubt, this is the home of the President-elect Donald Trump, the country's next First Lady Melania and their son, Barron.

Celebrities have called Trump Tower home like Bruce Willis, Andrew Lloyd Webber and Cristiano Ronaldo. Also a music superstar Michael Jackson. About 15 years ago a couple leasing the tower's penthouse got a personal call from Trump himself.

GIAMPIERO RISPO, PRESIDENT, DOMUS ARTHUR REALTY CORPORATION: Donald called the wife of the tenant and says, do you mind if I show your apartment to a dear friend of mine? She said no, not a problem, it is fine. So Michael Jackson arrives with his limousine in a separate entrance that the building has. My client said he was the nicest man around.

CASAREZ: According to the Web site, Trump Tower has over 60 floors and 263 apartments. Giampiero Rispo has represented high-profile clients at Trump Tower for over 15 years. He took us inside the building, 42 stories up, to see what your average multimillion-dollar apartment looks like.

Heading inside, golden burgundy walls, marble floors and apartment doors without letters or numbers so you need to know where you're going. He says security at the building now is so intense some of his prospective buyers are turned off.

RISPO: They start to feel that they are in a military camp. There are all kinds of forces from SWAT teams, police. It's not very pleasant to get to the building.

CASAREZ (on camera): People who live in Trump Tower actually have to go through this security right here and then even more security beyond to get to the residential entrance. That increased security began on election night and it's not set to end for a long, long time.

(Voice-over): Residents are taking it one day at a time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most surprising thing is just how easy it's been. You know, the security is it is clearly is substantial but they just are all really good at their job.

CASAREZ: A logistical nightmare or not, Trump Tower may be setting an example for what's to come.

RISPO: If President Trump will run the country the same way he runs the building, we will be quite happy.

CASAREZ: Jean Casarez, CNN, New York. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Thanks to Jean. We do appreciate it.

And coming up, Fidel Castro as seen through the lens of a renowned photojournalist. Peter Turnley joins us live to share his memories of the late Cuban leader, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:41:52] BROWN: A transformation captured in pictures from the leader of a revolution to a despised dictator. Fidel Castro's life has been bookmarked with moments like this. And the man behind the lens for this iconic photo and many like it joins me now.

Peter Turnley, renowned photojournalist, author of the book "Cuba: A Grace of Spirit."

Welcome to you, Peter. You have just come back from Cuba. First I just want to start with getting your reaction to this news of Fidel Castro's death.

PETER TURNLEY, PHOTOJOURNALIST: Thank you. Well, I received a phone call from a friend in Cuba very late last night telling me that there was word that Fidel had passed, and then I saw a news bulletin on CNN almost immediately afterwards.

I was in Cuba only four nights ago and for the last 40 years, I have made a point of trying to be in places all over the world where moments of fundamental geopolitical change and moments of history were taking place. About five years ago, I really had a sense that Cuba was one of the fundamental places where this was going to take place and I've now made more than 25 trips over the last five years to Cuba.

I engage daily with many, many Cuban people and I have noticed a tremendous amount of change over these last five year. Every single time I go back I see -- I see incremental change. I happen to be -- I covered President Obama's trip to Cuba to visit with Raul Castro several months ago and I can't underestimate what that trip meant to the population of Cuba.

The Cuban people were very moved by the handshake that he extended to them. A handshake where President Obama stood up and literally said that things are not perfect in the United States and that he wasn't there to preach, but he was there to extend a handshake and he wanted to be a friend with Cuba, and that had such an impact on the Cuban people.

I was in Havana --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I just wanted to ask you as we look at these pictures, Peter, that you have taken, pictures of Fidel Castro interacting with the crowds both up close and intimate moments and also holding court in front of the crowds of thousands as we saw. What did you take away from this? I mean, this is someone who is viewed as we've seen celebrating in Miami, viewed as a brutal dictator. You know, you have been up close and personal. What did you take away?

TURNLEY: I think it's very important to understand that for the Cuban people that live in Cuba, their lives have been connected one way or the other to Fidel Castro now for 50 years and like many things in life, I think the situation has not been black and white. I will say and I think it's important to underline that even if there are problems in Cuba and almost all Cubans would like to see some change that the average Cuban is very proud of many things about life in Cuba.

They're very proud of the national health care system they have. They're very proud of public education. They're proud of the fact that -- they talk often about that it's a tranquil place, they don't have to worry about crime or being shot. There aren't guns.

[18:45:04] And I will say that I think this process of engagement, I wanted to come back to something. I was in Havana recently the night that President-elect Trump was elected president of the United States. I think something that many Americans don't know or understand is that the average Cuban knows lots about the United States. The average Cuban has -- almost everyone has a family member or some relative living in the United States. They know much more about America than Americans know about Cuba.

And I spoke to many Cubans about the election of President-elect Trump and what they all said to me, and I think this is very interesting. I think it would be interesting if our current leaders would listen to this. What they all said was that the really hope that President- elect Trump, who is known to be a businessman that has business acumen, that he would -- that he would appeal to that pragmatic side of his vision of the world and would engage with Cuba. That would really give them hope.

My sense is that the worst thing that one could do with Cuba right now would be to roll things back and to isolate Cuba again. I think isolation is simply not worked and I think Cubans would absolutely tell you that.

BROWN: We will see what happens under President Trump.

Peter Turnley, thank you very much. Thanks for coming on the show.

TURNLEY: OK.

BROWN: And coming up, long distance. First Lady Melania Trump surprises with her decision to delay moving into the White House. But is it without precedent? We'll talk about it up next.

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[18:50:13] BROWN: So many things about the election of Donald Trump as president are unprecedented but his life's decision to delay moving to the White House one of them? To find out we brought in an expert. Anita McBride is an executive

and residence at American University Center for Congressional and Presidential Studies. She was also chief of staff to Laura Bush when she was first lady.

Anita, thank you so much for coming on. We've heard a lot about Donald Trump's transition but Melania Trump has her own staff to hire. She has her own transition to take care of. What is she likely doing ahead of the inauguration in January?

ANITA MCBRIDE, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO FIRST LADY LAURA BUSH: Well, we know she's already made one very important decision which is sets the tone for how she'll start her tenure as first lady, that she won't be coming down here right away. She'll wait for her son to finish school so she's sending a clear message. She's a mother first and we heard that throughout the campaign. That she's going to true to herself and be cognizant of what's right for her son, Barron.

So I think that initially right now the decisions on staffing up in the East Wing are probably not first and foremost for her until they get through the inauguration.

BROWN: And as you point out, she has said she's going to stay in New York with her son Barron so that he can finish her school year there. Has any other first lady made such a choice and do you think it will impact how she handles her duty as first lady?

MCBRIDE: Well, I think we have examples throughout our history, of course, of where we've had unmarried or widowed presidents that have had nieces or sisters or daughters for a widowed president that have covered some of the duties that we've come to expect to be traditionally handled by the first lady or by that position but in modern times, you know, we've gotten just very used to having activist first ladies living in the White House with the president, the first family together, and we have a fascination about that as Americans.

But the one thing about this position that's most important to remember is that everyone that comes into the job, each occupant rewrites the position description because there isn't one for it. This is not a constitutionally -- or statutorily defined position or even an authorized one. You know Ronald --

BROWN: And -- go ahead.

MCBRIDE: Go ahead. I'm sorry.

BROWN: No, go ahead.

MCBRIDE: Ronald Reagan used to say -- has the best quote about this. You know, the American people get only one federal employee for free. And that's the first lady. And what they pick and choose to do with that job ultimately always supports the administration and the president. But they do get the freedom to choose.

BROWN: I want to get your reaction on that note to this article in Politico that's essentially calling for abolishing the office of first lady. And to make this point, the author of this article, Jeff Schafer writes, "Yes, defund the ridiculously large staff that currently earns upward of $1.5 million a year serving Michelle Obama. Abolish the federally funded bully pulpit from which the presidential spouses have historically advocated for healthy eating, literacy, child welfare, anti-drug programs, mental health issues and beautification of highways. The president's spouse isn't a specimen of American royalty."

What do you think of that?

MCBRIDE: Well, what I do think and what we study at American University about first ladies, we've looked at them throughout the ark of history. And we see that they play such an incredibly important role. They are a partner to the presidency. When you think about it in the respect that every single problem comes to the desk of the American president, and the president's spouse does have a unique role and an automatic powerful platform when the president is sworn in to pick and choose issues that they can work on that help to elevate or put a spotlight on specific presidential initiatives.

They can be an enormous help and enormous support. And when they travel around the world, it is really an important function for foreign leaders or an important optic for foreign leaders to be receiving the spouse of the president. Arguably, the person that's closest to them. So I would say on both the domestic and the global, you know, level, it is an important role. It is a partner to the presidency. We're not a monarchy. I get that. And I can appreciate that.

I would also say that over the last 40 years the numbers of staff have remained about the same. It is a pretty efficiently run operation even though we have expected more and more out of the office.

BROWN: That's right. Anita McBride, thank you so much.

MCBRIDE: Thank you.

BROWN: And after the break, a boy in Florida calls 911 not with a problem, but with an invitation. A sweet story in our America for this Thanksgiving weekend. Stay with us.

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[18:58:29] BROWN: Well, tonight before we go a look at something wonderful happening in our America. No question, this country is divided right now by political beliefs, racial tension and income equality and religion. But we also come together in incredible and unexpected ways and we want to make sure you see those things as well.

In "Our America" tonight, a Florida boy had an important reason when he called 911 Thursday but there was no emergency . As the Walton County Sheriff's Department posted on its Facebook page, Billy had called to invite the entire department to come eat Thanksgiving dinner with him and his family.

"With all the bad calls we take on a daily basis, this one was a welcome, happy call that made us all smile," said lead communications officer Monica Webster. "In fact, the department was so touched a pair of sheriff's deputies paid Billy a special visit," and they gave the boy a sheriff's badge as we see right here and even let him sit in their patrol cars.

I bet he'll always remember that. Of course, the department says it does not encourage the use of 911 for non-emergencies, but that they were honored at the dinner invitation.

I bet that is a Thanksgiving they will all never forget.

Well, thank you so much for watching. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. I will be back tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern and tonight at 8:00. The CNN original series "THE '80S" beginning with race on television at 8:00, the "Reagan Revolution" at 10:00 and "Tear Down this Wall" at 11:00.

Right now it is a special encore presentation of "PARTS UNKNOWN" with Anthony Bourdain in Cuba. We should note Anthony visited Cuba and filmed this episode last year before Fidel Castro's death. "PARTS UNKNOWN" starts right now.