Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Continuing Coverage of Death of Cuban Leader Fidel Castro. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired November 26, 2016 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

CYRIL VANIER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hi, everyone. Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. If you are just joining us, long-time Cuban leader Fidel Castro has died. I'm Cyril Vanier.

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): And I'm George Howell. The Cuban president, Raul Castro, broke the news on Cuban television. He said that the body of his 90-year-old brother would be cremated early Saturday. No cause of death has been given at this point. But Castro has been having failing health now for years. Large crowds on the streets of Miami this hour.

Miami's Little Havana, even though Castro has been out of the public eye for much of the past decade, he still provokes a very strong reaction at the United States and what you see right there, people have been celebrating in the streets since learning the news that Fidel Castro is dead.

VANIER: Let's go now to Havana and join CNN's correspondent there, Patrick Oppmann.

Patrick, first of all, describe to us the scene in Havana. It's been very quiet since the beginning of the night, since we started talking to you.

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Sort of an eeriness. Quiet streets as I came to the office tonight. Later on, I was told that there was a military presence on the street. You usually don't see here.

But I have been talking with people all night long and into the morning and many of them did not hear the news. It took the official media here several hours. Other than that, surprise announcement by Raul Castro to really get the news out that Fidel Castro. Such a monumental figure for so many Cubans throughout their whole lives that he had died.

And I was talking to officials just a while ago. Younger, of course, than the revolution itself. And he said that it felt like a death in the family, that he really had a hard time -- [04:35:00]

OPPMANN: -- keeping it all together. So that is some of the reaction that you get and you also have ambivalent reactions to people who say that he has been out of the public eye for so long. He really didn't matter to my life anymore or people who felt that he took the country down the wrong path economically and politically and really created the enduring problems that Cubans are still facing today.

For many Cubans they have just not heard the news yet. People do not have Internet in their homes by and large, don't have independent sources of news. For so many millions of Cubans when they wake up in the coming hours, that is when they will learn from neighbors, from state media, from other people that really the world has changed and that Fidel Castro, an omnipresent force in Cubans' lives, is no longer a part of this island and it's been relegated to history.

HOWELL: Important to point out to our viewers around the world as we're getting this report from Patrick Oppmann, he is the only U.S. correspondent based in Havana and he has been covering it for many years now.

So we're getting, you know, a great deal of expertise, of context from you, Patrick, and it's good to have you with us live this hour. Just talk to us about what you would expect to hear as Cubans wake up. They're just hearing the news. You pointed out just earlier, that many people are just getting the news from you.

What do you expect the reaction to be as sun breaks and people start to learn this?

OPPMANN: Having lived here for a while, I'm often asked, do people still revere Fidel Castro?

And I think there is a minority that is very vocal in favor of him.

There's another minority that feels that he is, as people outside of Cuba often say that he is a dictator and then there is perhaps a majority that is somewhat ambivalent that if they revered him before, that they have since --

(CROSSTALK)

VANIER: We know more about Robert Miller.

OPPMANN: -- revolution that Fidel Castro started. Ad they really just want to know when they'll be able to turn the page on their situation in Cuba.

You know, Raul Castro has implemented economic reforms here. But he says we won't go too quickly and we won't stop and we won't go too quickly. And I think many people feel it's been far too slow.

This is a country that still has a very centralized Soviet-style economy. People do not have the right to protest and do not have the right to pick leaders outside of the Communist Party hierarchy. So change is coming to Cuba. And certainly seeing President Obama

here, seeing the Rolling Stones play here, seeing Americans flood the streets as the things I never expected to cover.

But for the Cubans who expected or hoped that their lives would get better in the last few years would change a relationship with the U.S. have been very disappointed. That really hasn't happened.

And I think some of the people that I have talked to really feel that this is perhaps not a good thing, that in the short-term the government will increase control, increase prohibitions on the island and that Fidel Castro's passing, while very symbolic, is not necessarily going to improve the lives, it's not going to bring the improvements that they've waited for and hoped for for so long.

VANIER: All right, Patrick Oppmann, CNN correspondent in Havana, Cuba, thank you very much.

HOWELL: And Patrick pointing out that there are many different reactions. Some people loved Castro. Many people hated Castro. And we're seeing that difference in response as this news, you know, is now spreading around the world.

VANIER: Difference being in Cuba, everybody's not going to be able to say exactly how they feel about this, as various contributors have been explaining.

HOWELL: And what we're seeing in Miami, so many people on the streets celebrating it.

I want to bring in a new guest we just got in here. Robert Miller, he is the director of the Cuba Solidarity Campaign and joining us now live in London.

Robert, thank you for being with us. First of all, I want to get your reaction when you first heard this news.

What did you think?

ROBERT MILLER, CUBA SOLIDARITY CAMPAIGN: On a very personal level, I was personally very upset, very sad. I first met Fidel Castro in 1978, when I was a 15-year-old boy. And Fidel has been part of my life but he's also been part of the lives of the people across the region, in Cuba certainly but across Latin America, where Fidel is very much seen as a beacon or symbol of resistance, if you like, to the U.S. aggression, which has been played out over the last 50 years against Cuba.

And Fidel has outlived, I think it's 11 U.S. presidents and he still -- he stood firm in the face of this aggression.

So for many people across the world, particularly in Latin America, Africa and the developing south, Fidel represents a symbol of hope and of change for a better world.

VANIER: Mr. Miller, I'd like to put perhaps some of what you are saying in context because we've been hearing a lot of the exact opposite over the last few hours, that he doesn't represent --

[04:40:00]

VANIER: -- a symbol of hope or change for a better world, that he represents dictatorship and authoritarianism.

MILLER: Yes, well, certainly the United States authorities over the last 55 years have spent --

(CROSSTALK)

VANIER: I wasn't referring to U.S. authorities.

MILLER: Sorry?

VANIER: I wasn't referring to U.S. authorities. We've heard a number of different voices --

MILLER: -- island and isolate an island, you use the media, the mass media to present a certain picture. And I can assure you that, across Latin America and Africa, people won't be cheering the news.

They will be --

VANIER: What about across Cuba?

MILLER: -- who has -- sorry?

VANIER: What about across Cuba?

MILLER: Well, you'll see, when people wake up in Cuba, I mean, certainly there are Cubans here at the event we're holding here in London today, who are extremely upset about the loss of their leader. At the of the day with Cubans --

VANIER: Sorry to interrupt you but will we really see?

Will Cubans really get a chance to express their sincere feelings about this?

MILLER: Well, certainly the Cubans that I know here in London are expressing their feelings. Whether people are pro or against the revolution, they are extremely proud of their nation and what their nation has achieved.

And they're extremely proud of a nation that provides health services, education services and social care for their people. And Fidel represents that proud country in the world and the Cuban people will celebrate his life.

VANIER: Mr. Miller, tell me about freedom of speech in Cuba because I feel you're -- tell me about freedom of speech in Cuba because you are telling us about the legacy of Fidel Castro. And now -- I'm not denying everything you are saying but I do feel that you're telling us one side of the story.

MILLER: Well, I think when you interview people in Havana, when the Cubans wake up --

VANIER: Which has been remarkably difficult to do for a very long time, as any reporter going to Cuba will tell you.

MILLER: Well, you've -- I understand, you have a reporter in Cuba. It's just the world's media and they will (INAUDIBLE) Cubans. And Cubans will have different opinions. But the vast majority of Cubans, I can assure you, will be very upset by the passing of Fidel Castro.

VANIER: And will they be upset because -- and this is something that we see in other countries with similar situations -- he has represented the entire contemporary history for half a century?

And so there are emotions attached to that.

Or will they upset because they actually miss his style of government?

MILLER: Well, Fidel Castro has been the leader or a leader of the Cuban revolution since the days of the revolution, since the overthrow of Batista, who was a very vicious dictator who killed hundreds, yes, tens of thousands of people on that island.

So Fidel Castro represents the best of Cuba along with the other historic leaders of the revolution and they are very much respected by people across the island. Of course, mistakes have been made. But at the end of the day Cuba is a proud, independent country that has achieved an awful lot despite the ongoing aggressive U.S. blockade for over 50 years.

HOWELL: I do have to just push back with one thing. Even Human Rights Watch has a very grim report when it comes to freedom of speech, when it comes to reporters being able to do their job, when it comes to people being imprisoned.

How does all of that factor into his legacy?

MILLER: I think Cuba is by no means and by anybody's standards a human rights disaster. There are many human rights disasters around the continent. And the United States has been involved in many of those situations, in Chile, in Nicaragua, in El Salvador, in Guatemala.

And so to accuse Cuba of being a human rights problem I think is missing the point completely. Cuba is the only country in the world to have achieved its set-out millennium development goals. No child in Cuba goes hungry. Children are educated. People are educated. There's a health service.

It's very difficult to understand but it is their democratic system. It's one they worked on. It's participate other. All Cubans are highly indicated and participated in a political process. It's completely different. It's a fallacy to suggest that there is no freedom of speech in Cuba.

The Cubans have a very different democratic system to yours or mine. And it's very difficult to understand. But it their democratic system. It's one that they worked on. It's participatory. All Cubans are very highly educated and participate in the political process.

It's completely different and very, very difficult to understand. But when you compare it to your recent elections in the United States, where money plays such a large part in the election of your president, I really do think it's very difficult for our country to throw stones at glass houses.

HOWELL: Robert Miller, on the phone with us with the Cuba Solidarity Campaign in London, Robert, we appreciate you being with us and lending your voice to this important historic moment, the death of Fidel Castro. Thank you and we'll be back with you, I'm sure, throughout the hours.

VANIER: All right. Thank you very much.

Thanks for following us here, our rolling coverage of the death of Fidel Castro, the late Cuban leader, who died at age 90. Stay with us.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:45:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

VANIER: Welcome back, everyone, and hello if you're just joining us. I want to recap our breaking news for those of you who are just tuning in.

Former Cuban leader Fidel Castro has died at age 90. His brother, the current Cuban president, Raul Castro, announced his death on Cuban TV. He said that he died Friday night and will be cremated early Saturday.

HOWELL: He has been a controversial leader and survived numerous assassination attempts and his death has drawn mixed reactions. Take a look at the scene in Miami, Florida. This is the center of the Cuban exile community in the United States.

And this is the scene now. We've seen much bigger crowds now, earlier; not sure where the camera shot is but a lot of people have been gathering there just outside of the Versailles restaurant. This is on Calle Ocho in Little Havana. It's a meeting place for many Cuban Americans to talk politics, to have a cafecito (ph) and this day they're coming together with flags. They are celebrating the death of Fidel Castro.

News of Castro's death, though, has likely not reached many Cubans as it broke late night. In fact, many Cubans are still learning about the news from our own correspondent who is on the ground, Patrick Oppmann. We'll bring him in later.

But first let's bring in Juan Carlos Lopez of CNN Espanol, joining now live.

So let's talk about the implications around the world, quite frankly, of this very significant moment, the death of Fidel Castro.

JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ, CNN ESPANOL CORRESPONDENT: It is a moment that I think has a different meaning now. It had been expected for a long time and we saw those images out of Miami of people who came out to celebrate.

There was an incident several years ago when this happened around the many rumors of Fidel Castro's demise and it created a backlash. People felt that it did not send the right message.

We see it today when it's been confirmed that he passed away but this is something that has been expected for a while. So the reaction will be more philosophy (ph) a historic leader in Cuba more than the leader of that country because as you have been reporting, he was not running Cuba. He was seen as a reference. He was seen as a guide. But the country is being run by his brother, Raul, who also has a transition plan in place. So this will be more impact of an iconic figure for Cuba --

[04:50:00]

LOPEZ: -- as you've heard, a figure that generates all types of reaction, different from people who had to come to the United States and other countries than from those on the island, who most now, who, living on the island, grew up under the revolution but obviously a very important historical fact; not, I believe -- at least not at this moment, you could say -- this will be a transformational moment for Cuba.

It's really hard to predict because this had already been assumed that incorporated into the political process in that country.

VANIER: Juan Carlos, you are expecting more of the status quo then in Cuba going forward?

LOPEZ: That's the -- that's -- Cuba -- and you have to understand -- Cuba works in a very different way from the democracy that we're accustomed to in the West. So the process in Cuba, the political process in Cuba has been in motion for a while. They've been very clear on where they're going, who their leaders will be.

And they saw Fidel Castro -- and I'm speaking for what I've heard in Havana and from people who work for the government and from others that didn't -- they saw him as a revered figure inside the government in the country, as a historical figure.

But they were aware that he was not the one calling the shots. He might have disagreed with things that were done by his brother but it was interesting. I remember when President Obama visited the island -- and this was a historic visit in itself -- Fidel Castro then came out with a column that he used to write frequently, criticizing the visit and highlighting the mistrust that he had towards the U.S. And there was this debate on whether Fidel was going a different path

than Raul. But Raul, in the speech in the Communist Party Congress that came after the visit, said, no, we are one; there is only one revolution. This is the kind of debate we have in the revolution. And that was Fidel.

Fidel spoke his mind and people were used to hearing what he had to say but were aware that he wasn't the one calling the shots. And now Raul is on the process, Raul Castro, the current president of Cuba and that's also something that generates a lot of reaction in the United States, where people consider that he is not a president.

While he presides the different cabinet in the Cuban government and he's already planning his departure in a couple of years, in two years. So this is -- people -- I -- we'll see. We'll see what happens, as Patrick said, when light comes out in Havana, when people come to the streets. But the process is in motion in that country.

HOWELL: And, Juan Carlos, you are giving us a sense of the political process there in Cuba, as our viewers here in the U.S. are waking up and hearing this news. Let's put it into context. This is all happening with a new President of the United States that will be taking office in January.

So how does this -- you know -- the shadow that has been a long shadow over Cuba for so much time, now that he is gone and, you know, with Raul Castro, the leader, how does this play out with the new president, Donald Trump?

LOPEZ: Well, Raul Castro congratulated Donald Trump as have done many other leaders worldwide. But it's really right now anyone's guess on what is going to happen with this process.

Now remember, the U.S. still imposes an embargo, an economic embargo on Cuban, and that embargo can only be lifted by Congress. It can't be done by the White House. President Obama through execution action and through other measures has taken a lot of steps to soften that economic embargo.

But even the Cuban government through Raul Castro has said that it's not enough, that what they expect is for the U.S. to lift the embargo, to have a normal trade relationship and then the relation can be fully restored.

Now it's interesting and Americans can travel anywhere in the world they want. They can't travel to Cuba. Now it's easier under many of the measures taken by President Obama in this process. But it's still against the law to go as a tourist to Cuba.

So what will happen with the incoming government?

We saw President-Elect Donald Trump visiting South Florida towards the end of the campaign, promising that he would address these issues, that he have a stricter position on Cuba and he would demand human rights and he would demand that Cuba abide by international law. We don't know what's going to happen. He still hasn't -- we still

don't know who is secretary of state will be. We don't know what his policy towards Latin America will be. We know that he has been very vocal on Mexico and the relationship with Mexico but not on where Cuba fits into this process.

So it will be a wait-and-see process. It's been a historic presidency, during President Obama, the fact that not only relations were reestablished but also that the President of the United States visited Havana. The last president to go to Havana went on a ship. There was no commercial air traffic.

So things advance very quickly but they're not at the point where everything has been solved and we'll see what the new administration brings.

VANIER: CNN Espanol anchor Juan Carlos Lopez, thank you very much for your insights. Thanks a lot. We appreciate your time.

Let me turn now to Peter Kornbluh, who joins us from Washington. He is a CNN analyst; he has written --

[04:55:00]

VANIER: -- extensively about Cuba.

I want to continue this line of questioning about what happens next for Cuba and whether this changes something for the system of government, the politics of Cuba, because we are, it appears, at a juncture where, I wouldn't say vulnerability but the current president, Raul Castro, is preparing his succession.

A new U.S. president is coming to office. Here we are with the figurehead of the Cuban revolution who passes away.

Does this change the politics of Cuba going forward?

PETER KORNBLUH, CNN ANALYST: I think the transition in Cuba took place already over 10 years ago, when Fidel became very ill and passed of the revolution and the leadership of Cuba to his brother, Raul.

Raul Castro himself, as you've just discussed, is about to pass the baton in a couple of years to the next generation of Cuban leadership.

The real issue here today is that this is a very delicate moment in U.S.-Cuban relations. The Cubans, like many other countries around the world, really don't know what to expect and have grave fears about what to expect from a Donald Trump administration and have already been concerned about that.

And with Fidel's passing, the news cycle on this, the statements that are being made, the images from Miami, whenever Trump actually comes out and says, really will set the tone for whether this reconciliation and rapprochement between Washington and Havana continues in the post- Obama era. And we can easily go the route of having grave tensions if the Cubans

perceive a Trump administration trying to take advantage of what they believe to be instability in the wake of Fidel's passing.

Or we could have a more rational approach and everybody understands that this doesn't really change the relationship between the United States and Cuba and it certainly doesn't change, I think, the future of leadership for the foreseeable future in Cuba.

HOWELL: Peter Kornbluh on the line with us, CNN analyst in Washington, Peter, thank you for being with us. Stand by as we will reset here at the top of the hour.

But before we leave you this hour, let's take a look at the scene in Miami, Florida, right now. Don't think we have these live images I'm being told. But again, earlier we did see a big crowd of people just outside of the Versailles restaurant. These are families of exiles, exiles, people who have come together to celebrate the headline that we're reading to you here, that the Cuban leader, former leader, has died at the age of 90 years old.

Stay with us. We'll be right back after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)