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Trump Falsely Claims Millions Voted Illegally; Desperate Fight for Survival Inside Aleppo; Mourning in Havana, Celebrations in Miami; Will Trump Roll Back Obama's Cuba Deal?; Next Battlefield Takes Place in Space; Trump Calls Wisconsin Recount Efforts a Scam. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired November 27, 2016 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour now then Sunday. I am Pamela Brown. In Washington and for Poppy Harlow and you are live in the CNN news room. Donald Trump right now is heading back to his transition headquarters in New York. As he heads home this evening the President-Elect is continuing one of his trademark twitter tirades.

[17:00:00] A lot seeing some efforts to recount votes to some states and here are some of his latest, "In addition to winning the electoral college in a landslide I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally. It would have been much easier for me to win the so called popular vote in the Electoral College. And that I would only campaign three or four states and some of the 15 states that I have visited. I would have won even more easily and convincingly, but smaller states are forgotten."

I want to bring in CNN Ryan Nobles he is at Trump's Mar-a-Lago Resort where the President-Elect for the thanksgiving holiday, where he just left off. Ryan, so to be clear here, there is no evidence that millions of people voted illegally, right?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There isn't any evidence, Pamela. And the President-Elect didn't provide any evidence despite the fact that this twitter tirade that he went on this afternoon is the longest topic that he has ever tweeted about since the election took place. The Trump campaign obviously concerned about this recount effort not only is the President-Elect himself talking about it on twitter, but his aides are talking about it. Kellyanne Conway today was on a number of the Sunday morning talk shows, listen to what she said on CNN State of the Union today about this recount effort.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN MANAGER: He has been incredibly gracious and anonymous to Secretary Clinton at a time when for whatever reasons her folks are saying they will join any recount to try to somehow undo the 70 plus electoral votes that he beat her by. I mean this, you know I was asked on CNN and elsewhere, goodness, a thousand times will Donald Trump accept the election results? And now you have got the Democrats and Jill Stein saying they do not accept the elections results. She congratulated him and she conceded to him on election night. I was right there. And the idea that we are going to drag this out now, where the President-Elect has been incredibly magnanimous to the Clinton and to the Obama's is pretty incredible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: And one thing that Donald Trump seems to be particularly upset about is that the Clinton campaign has decided to join these recount effort. He feels it hypocritical that the Clinton campaign who seemly criticized him for being concern about the election being rigged with now asked to have this recount take place. The Clinton campaign has said from the beginning that their own analysis has found there is no evidence that there is anything to be concern about as regard to this vote total, but since Jill Stein started the process that they intend to join in. Pamela, it doesn't look to be an issue that will go away any time soon.

BROWN: It certainly does not. Ryan Nobles thanks so much.

As now as we reported President-Elect Donald Trump is considering Mitt Romney for the post of Secretary of State. The Senior Adviser Kellyanne Conway says Trump's backers feel betrayed, but Romney has not even on the running, given his stating critic of Trump during the campaign. Following a tweet on thanksgiving about her concerns with Romney this morning Conway explained her position today on a bash on CNN's State of the Union.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONWAY: The first job of any Secretary of State is to support and work directly for and advice the president for whom you work. I felt compelled to mention it, because it is just breathtaking in scope and intensity the type of messages I receive from all over the country. I'm just me. I'm not Donald Trump and so, just as his former campaign manager the number of people who feel betrayed to think that a Governor Romney would get the most prominent cabinet post. After he went so far out of his way to hurt Donald Trump, there was the never Trump movement and then there was Mitt Romney, he gave speeches against Donald Trump. He attacked his character. I never heard Governor Romney come out and say hey, you know I had an x, y and z, but the 25 million job creation plan over the next ten years is really something to look at. The fact that you'll reduce capital gains tax and the tax on employers and business, were you unleash energy and you have a 10 point plan to reform energy administration, none of that was ever said. I mean Romney consultants were the worst to all of us including Mr. Trump's tweeter feed were complete 100 percent anti- Trump and look, if President-Elect Trump chooses Mitt Romney as his secretary of state or whoever he chooses, that will have the full support and backing of all of us. I respect the brilliance and judgment and share instinct of President-Elect Trump to form his cabinet as he wishes, but I thought -- compelled to come forward on behalf of the people who were weighing in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. We know you have be, supportive $ of President-Elect Trump and his decision. But it really sounds like you personally -- not that you have been receiving criticism and concerns about Mitt Romney, but you personally have concerns about a potential Secretary of State Mitt Romney for Donald Trump.

[17:05:00] CONWAY: Well, it's -- I'm not sure that my personal concerns matter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Am I wrong to say that?

CONWAY: Rests with one man. I know you are not wrong to say that, because Governor Romney went out of his way. I also just think that it's Donald Trump who shows that he has political instincts. Governor Romney ran for the same office four years ago and lost spectacularly. If Donald Trump who just won 306 electoral votes, one state like Michigan. Mitt Romney lost Michigan by ten points. Donald Trump just won it. Donald Trump won Wisconsin for the first time since 1984, won Pennsylvania, won Florida, won Iowa, and won Ohio. All of these states that were elusive to the last couple of nominees. And the other thing is, Dana, I think there are other candidates being considered apart from the ones that are just being covered more commonly in the media. But apart from that, Governor Romney in the last four years, has he been around the globe, doing something on behalf of the United States of which we are unaware? Did he go and intervene in Syria with having a massive humanitarian crisis, meaning like offer to help? Has he been helpful to Mr. Netanyahu? In other words, I'm all for part of unity, but I'm not sure that we have to pay for that with the Secretary of State position. But again, let me repeat, what Donald Trump decides, Kellyanne Conway and everybody else will respect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, let's talk it over with my panel of CNN Commentator with me now, Andre Bauer and Anna Navarro, Andre is a former Lieutenant Governor of South Carolina and he supported Trump in the election and as a Republican, but did not support Trump. Thank you both for coming on. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and Andre, I want o start with you. We are going to talk about Romney in just a minute. But first, Donald Trump won this election. He is the president elect. Why does he appear to be questioning its legitimacy with his latest claim that millions of people voted illegally in the election, an allegation with absolutely no evidence to support it, Andre?

ANDRE BAUER, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA LT. GOVERNOR TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, you know personally talked to him but for a long time he questioned the validity of some of the people who actually vote. That is why, you have seen the conservatives push for voter I.D. for so long and also I watched CNN six months ago and an individual who actually talked about ways to create voter fraud. And so, there is always concerns out there, I think both parties are actually concern about voter fraud, but you have seen far long time when I was actually in the legislature myself, we could pushed for voter I.D. so that everybody that actually does go out to vote has to prove who they are.

BROWN: I mean this is millions. Andre, if this is what Trump truly believes wouldn't a recount be more important than ever if they think there is voter fraud and millions of people voted illegally? Wouldn't it justify the recount effort? BAUER: I don't that you can really justify the recount effort, but if

it is for the good of the American people for them to make sure that there is absolute 100 percent trust in the voting system then we should do it. It looks like we're going to do it. It is going to show again Donald Trump did win the election. It may move a couple hundred votes, one way or the other but you don't hear any Secretary of States in any of these states saying there was any type of fraud. So in the end we are still going to have the same President-Elect. In just a short time the new president of the United States will be Donald Trump.

BROWN: And Donald Trump tweeted today, that he believes millions of people voted illegally on this? Ana, what is your take on this latest allegation and tweets by Donald Trump?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Facts and figures have never stopped Donald Trump from tweeting whatever he wants to tweet. I think he is irritated about this recount. I think it got under his skin. And we all know when something is irritating to Donald Trump, when something gets to his skin, he can't let go of it. So he has been on a tweet storm today about that. I think it's counterproductive. Let it go.

Don't give it importance. The huge likelihood is it's not going to change the results whatsoever. So why give it more oxygen? By him tweeting out against it, he is casting a spotlight on it, he is giving in attention, he is letting America know that he is really bothered by it and that he can't restrain or discipline himself to focus on the matters at hand of filling his cabinet or doing his transition, instead here he is again chasing the shiny object.

BROWN: Andre, what is your response to that, he said earlier he won this election, he is President-Elect. Why do you think this seems to be getting under his skin so much?

BAUER: Well I think he is bothered by it. The biggest thing is, look in a debate they asked him if he would honor it. He said I have got questions about it and I may challenge it. Hillary Clinton was actually adamant in her support of whatever happens in the election, we'll support it. Quite frankly if I were the person that was President-Elect I would be a little bit perturbed too, because the media was tough on him, per se, wait a minute, if I think you are a irregularity, I am going to challenge him, but when she was so adamant in her oh, no, we'll accept the results and now you see it is quite the opposite when the shoe is on the other foot.

[17:10:16] BROWN: Do you think that claim of hypocrisy is fair Anna?

NAVARRO: Well let's remember it is Jill Stein who is leading this recount effort. Hillary Clinton and her team are joining it, but it is a Jill Stein recount effort. I think Jill Stein might have guilt by association, right? A lot of people feel that the third party votes that went to her and Gary Johnson could have lead to a Hillary Clinton victory. So, I think if you will blame anybody, blame Jill Stein. It is such a, you know, kind of like a silly debate. I mean we have Donald Trump who for weeks, not months, talked about the rigged system. What I simply should be focusing on, what happened with the Russians? Did they hack our election system, why did they hack the DNC e-mails? Why did they release the WikiLeaks e-mails? That should be really troubling to every single American. So, instead of focusing on a recount effort that is not going to lead to a change in the result, we really should focus on how to defend the integrity of our electoral system, because that is so disturbing. And the Russians, if they got away with it this time they are not about to stop.

BROWN: Andre, do you think you have an agreement, but I want to just quickly move on and talk about Mitt Romney. You know, we just heard Kellyanne Conway, speaking to my colleague Dana Bash, sticking out really against Romney. Andre, do you believe that Trump is seriously considering him for Secretary of State or is he just stringing him along? Is there an arterial motive? What is your view on that?

BAUER: I think Donald Trump is magnanimous in looking at many candidates. Who have many different skills, I don't think anyone questions the validity and the ability of Mitt Romney to be a Secretary of State and I think that is why he had the meeting to see if they could, you know, bury the hatchet on some of their differences, quite frankly not just politically but from what they actually believe things like, Russia and our next move with them will be. And so part of it was probably to test his temperature to see if he thinks they can work together. This is a boardroom. This is not a politician approach. This is what Donald Trump is used to doing. Vetting someone who he may put, at the very top of his administration and he has got to make sure he has a comfort level with him or whomever he decides to choose. And that was the purposed of the meeting, I fell like.

BROWN: And you know that it's clear that Trump prioritizes loyalty. That is extremely important to him. If the cabinet member doesn't believe in the president's policies, how could he fully represent them?

NAVARRO: I think that if Mitt Romney put himself out there to be a possible Secretary of State, he will support the president's policies. Mitt Romney understands chain of commands. I frankly found Kellyanne interviews today, not only on CNN, but on other Sunday shows astounding. In fact, I tweeted about it and she tweeted me back.

BROWN: She responded.

NAVARRO: It is pretty amazing to see the public airing of grievances with a possible cabinet pick. It tells me he is not going to be a cabinet pick, because they have been humbling him, they have been putting him in his place. They have been castigating him and pushing him.

BROWN: You think Trump is orchestrating this with Kellyanne Conway to embarrass him?

NAVARRO: Look, I think Kellyanne is very smart, very sharp. She also has proven to have Donald Trump fear. She can say all of these things and told me in the tweet response that she has, spoken to him privately. So I don't understand why she has got to go on such a strong vocal public campaign on Sunday shows one after the other against Mitt Romney even questioning his qualifications? What has he done the last four years?

I'll tell you what he hasn't done. He hasn't represented any controversial foreign actors. Like some of the other potential pick. I know Rudy Giuliani. I know Retire General John Kelly. I know Mitt Romney. All of them bring management skills. You can disagree with them on policy. You can disagree with them on different things. They would all be loyal to the President-Elect.

And I think, you know this kind of public thrashing and attacking and thorn of a popular cabinet pick is unseemly and I have a very hard time thinking that Giuliani, Gingrich, Huckabee and Kellyanne are out there, kind a questioning Mitt Romney's loyalty, Mitt Romney's qualifications without it being a coordinated Trump strategy to put Mitt Romney in his place. Let's remember, Trump can hold a grudge and he has shown to be petty in the past.

BROWN: But he also appointed people like Nikki Haley, U.N. Ambassador, you know who had also been critical of him in the trail. So you have that example.

NAVARRO: I think it was a different level of criticism.

[17:15:02] BROWN: A different level of criticism, fair enough. But still, certainly did not throw her support fully behind him during the campaign. Andre and Ana, I wish I could talk to you two all day. It is such an interesting discussion. Thank you for coming on.

NAVARRO: Thank you.

BAUER: I need glasses.

BROWN: A day after the death of one of the most polarizing figures in the 20th century, it is a tale of two cities, mourning in Havana, celebrations in Miami. We will have this settle. We are going to take you live to the street of Cuba.

Plus what might relations of Cuba look like during the Trump administration? We will discuss and then later heartbreak images of families fleeing Aleppo as Syrian regime forces advances to the Eastern part of the city. Here is a desperate message from those still living there. You're live in the CNN news room.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We have seen reactions of Cuban American's Fidel Castro's death on Friday. And now look at how the citizens of Cuba are responding to the death of their former president. Take a look at the left side of your screen right here, the streets of Havana are quiet. Today, a stark contrast on what we saw on Miami's little Havana neighborhood on Saturday on the right side of your screen celebrating the death of Fidel Castro. Ed Lavandera joins me now from the Cuban capital and tells us more about the move there. ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know it's been much muted in

many ways considering that this news came to the City of Havana and throughout the Cuban Island on late Friday night. In fact it was just a brief moment where Raul Castro, the brother of Fidel Castro appeared on state television to make the announcement. In many ways I think you can say that a lot of people here in Cuba have been trying to kind a feel of this situation. To figure out what they can and can't do.

Remember, this is a police state -- actions can be punished. The most minimal of actions can be punished in ways that there can be unexpected, so many people here trying to cautiously figure out what exactly they can do. There have been, as we discovered last night some small vigils. One in particular took place in a University of Havana were we had the chance to speak with some of the students that go there. And very different on the way they talk about Fidel Castro compared to what we have seen on the streets of Miami, Florida.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:20:30] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He came here and to the struggle of that --- he proved to us that we actually had some value and with unity we can make any change possible. And he is not an example to Cuban, who is an example to American. I believe he was something to the entire world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are truly revolutionary. I think that the main course here is that the young people in Cuba that truly revolutionary young people in Cuba, they are not only revolutionary in his speech they are revolutionary in life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: So, Pamela you can hear from those interviews the difference that you hear in the expressions and the voices of some Cubans here in Havana, very different from what we heard in Miami. Of course many people also don't feel as comfortable speaking out. If they feel any differently than that, that is something they are being very cautious about, you know the world around us.

BROWN: Yes. The difference in reactions really sums up what a polarizing figure he was. Ed Lavandera, thank you very much.

As Cuba gets set to honor Fidel Castro anyone starting to looms of retrolationship with the U.S. coming up next, Trump's team says the President-Elect will demand a better deal with the government of Havana. We are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:25:27] BROWN: Well commercial flights to Havana, Cuba. And half century just started over the summer in the wake of Fidel Castro death, some wonder if President-Elect Donald Trump will allow such flights to continue once he takes office. During the campaign Trump's plan President Obama still to restore diplomatic and economic ties with Cuba and his travel banned. Well now Trump seems to just Obama's Cuba deal may soon be history. Listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REINCE PRIEBUS, INCOMING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Well, we have got to have a better deal. We are not going to have a unilateral deal coming from Cuba back to the United States without some changes in their government, refraction, open markets, freedom of religion, political prisoners. These things need to change in order to have an open and free relationships and that is what President-Elect Trump believes. And that is where he is going to have, talking is fine but action is something that will be required under President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right. Let's talk it over with political commentator Ana Navarro in Miami, in 2001 she served as Ambassador to U.N. Human Right Commission and help bring about a condemnation of Cuban's government over its human rights record, Ana, good to see you again. We heard what Reince Priebus said. Rump has said, that he wants more religious and political freedom in Cuba in order to keep President Obama mission and he said that during his campaign. Would Cuba's government be willing to make more concession to keep the two countries on the path to better relations, you think?

NAVARRO: You know I have no idea what Raul Castro would do. We know that he hasn't given any concessions. There have been no real Democratic changes in Cuba since the Obama policy change in 2014. I think Donald Trump owes the Cuban American community. They voted for him in very high numbers, here in South Florida, despite the fact that he allegedly violated embargo. They overlook everything, because I think they were very mad at the Obama policy changes and Donald Trump promised differently. We saw him issue a very strongly worded statement yesterday on Fidel Castro's death, where he focused on the tyranny, the human right violation, the pain and suffering that Fidel Castro imposed on the people of Cuba. I think it was a very strong signal to the Cuban American community that he is on their side. That he remembers that he has with them and if he wants to change the policy. This is a place where he can actually do it and do it quickly.

There was no legal, no law change when the policy changed. The law has not changed. It was done through executive order. He can go back and revert some of that stuff. He can tighten the travel policies and he can ask and demand from Cuba some real changes. For example, give back some of those U.S. fugitives that he have safe harbor in Cuba, people that are assassin that had been charge with a assignation in the United States. Like the woman who assassinated the New Jersey trooper, so I think that Donald Trump has a lot he can do on a few variations it is going to be one of the first tests. It is where he can do it, he can do it quickly. He can do it through executive order. Let's see if he remembers death in the Cuban American community and if he follows through with his promises.

BROWN: But you know that Donald Trump, he is a businessman at heart. In fact I think at one point on the trail, he talked about perhaps in a hotel in Cuba. And what opportunities there might be. Do you really think that he is going to do what you laid out, what you would like to see him do?

NAVARRO: I don't know. We have seen him change positions on so many different things. But on this one the early signal he is giving is that he plans to have a stronger policy towards Cuba, a more demanding policy towards Cuba. And I think he actually has a lot of leverage. It almost felt like President Obama just so badly wanted part of his legacy to be normalizing relations with Cuba, that he has normalized the dictators of Cuba. When you saw President Obama's statement yesterday he was offering condolences to the family of Fidel Castro, very little mention of the families of political prisoner, of the family of the exiles, of the family of the people that were tortured and jailed by Fidel Castro. I was very disappointed in President Obama's statement yesterday. And I think that you can focus. There's a lot you can do to a U.S. President, to focus on bringing about Democratic changes on helping the opposition and the dissidents in Cuba on funding that financing that on standing and being in solidarity with those people instead of the dictators.

[17:30:10] President Obama so badly wanted this as part of his history. So badly wanted this in the history books that he had opened up Cuba, but it was, you know, his Nixon and China moment but I really don't think he cut a good deal.

Donald Trump has a chance to undo some of this stuff and I think he's got a lot of leverage because Raul Castro understands that he badly needs the cash that is coming with American tourists and American investment.

BROWN: All right. We'll have to wait and see what happens when he takes office. Ana Navarro, thank you for coming on sharing your perspective.

And still to come, the squabble over a recount Dems won votes in key states re-tallied but a little more than a month ago, the tables were turned. Hypocritical or wheels of democracy in motion? You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well the Cold War may be over but the next arms race has already begun. This next battlefield is taking shape hundreds of miles above the U.S. in space. CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto gained rare access to classified U.S. military command and operation centers and he investigates the new weapons built to disable or destroy U.S. satellites which could cripple everything from your GPS to nuclear readiness.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning Charlie crew. Let's get started with changeover.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: One of the first warning shots in space was spotted here, the Joint Space Operation Center at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All assets are currently tasked and are ready to support. Getting any questions ma'am, that's all I've got.

SCIUTTO: It was May 2014 when a small team of airmen monitoring a Russian space launch saw something they had never seen before.

DAVID BUCK, COMMANDER, JOINT FUNCTIONAL COMPONENT COMMAND FOR SPACE: Its part of the Russian space launch we were tracking three objects on orbit. One was the actual satellite that they were launching in orbit. One was the rocket body and another was what we assumed to be a piece of debris.

[17:35:12] SCIUTTO: But soon after the debris came to life. Lieutenant General David Buck, commander of U.S. Military Space Forces was on duty.

BUCK: The one object we assumed was a piece of debris started to maneuver in close proximity to the booster.

SCIUTTO: It has continued overturn to make maneuvers?

BUCK: We are watching it very closely.

SCUTTO: In other words, it's not debris but a satellite with new and dangerous capabilities.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And our thanks to Jim Sciutto. This Tuesday, go inside the most classified U.S. operation and also discover the impact of a space war. CNN's Special Report War in Space, The Next Battlefield, Tuesday night at 9:00 only here on CNN. Back in a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A Twitter storm overnight continuing throughout the day with president-elect Donald Trump calling the recount efforts a scam. This is one of several Trump tweets quoting here, "The Democrats, when they incorrectly thought they were going to win, asked that the election night tabulation be accepted. Not so anymore!" On Saturday, the Clinton campaign announced it will join the Green Party recount effort in Wisconsin after the filing happened.

[17:40:00] Joining me now to discuss, my panel of CNN commentators, Ben Ferguson, host of "The Ben Ferguson Show," Marc Lamont Hill, host of "BET News" and professor at Morehouse College. Thank you both for coming on gentlemen.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good evening.

BROWN: Let's talk about this. Lot's to chew on here. Let's talk about Trump's tweet. You know, when it looked like Clinton was on track to win, she was all for accepting the results while Trump, prior to his surprise victory told his supporters repeatedly to expect large scale voter fraud. Marc, what do you make of this?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think we're comparing apples and oranges here. Donald Trump wasn't saying that he may want a recount or that he may respond to potential voter irregularities. He was saying that the system is rigged and there's no way he could win and that even if Hillary Clinton got more votes and it was determined that Hillary Clinton got more votes he still may not accept the outcome of the election it because the system was both rigged.

That is very different than Hillary Clinton's team or more importantly because the series of computer scientists who say, here, there are some irregularities here and we should recount it. Hillary Clinton's team isn't saying we want to accept the outcome that Donald has more votes. She's saying let's make sure that Donald has more votes. I don't think there's anything wrong with doing a recount.

It's not for Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. It's for the American people. The American people deserve to have a winner. Now I voted green. I don't have a dog in this fight as it were. I'm saying if Donald won, he won but there's nothing wrong with recounting.

BROWN: OK, so Donald did win, Ben, and yet he tweets today that, you know, millions of people voted illegally and that he would have won the popular vote. Wouldn't that make a recount more important than ever considering he tweeted this and he thinks all of these people voted illegally?

FERGUSON: Look, I don't think he should have sent out that tweet. There's no evidence to show that a million plus people voted illegally. I think his point that he was getting to is bigger is about how big of a waste of time this actually is and also I think it's really sad there's basically fundraising that's going on, on an idea that's not reality, which is send in money and we're going to recount the vote and somehow change the outcome of a free and fair election. That's the part that's the most frustrating to me.

And I don't understand why Hillary Clinton's campaign (inaudible) while Hillary Clinton isn't saying she wants a recount where her campaign is now involved in this recount and what they're doing is they're taking hard-earned American's money and they're wasting it and it's going to go to a bunch of lawyers and who knows what else to recount votes when it will not change the outcome of this election. It was a free and fair election. We need to move forward and shame on these people like Jill Stein for actually being a part of this.

BROWN: But millions of dollars were raised. I mean people -- wasn't that sort of people speaking and saying look, it's sort of fine the Green Party to look into it.

FERGUSON: Look, I think but you're selling it -- this is my analogy I'll use for this recount. It's like someone stubbing their toe, buying a band aid and starting to go fund me page saying please help with my medical expenses for horrific tragedy. It just isn't based in reality of the situation that's why I say this is nothing more than fraud. And the only people that are going to get paid here are big Democratic lawyers and those around Jill Stein who are going to make a bunch of money fighting over this recount.

BROWN: And because Jill Stein is not here to defend herself, I will tell you what she told me yesterday. That all the money will go into a separate account. It will be -- it will only be used for recount efforts. That is what she is saying about this. What's that?

FERGUSON: Which means lawyers are going to get paid in this. I mean, if there is anybody that's going to get rich off of this, it's a bunch of lawyers who are going to fight this and get massive fees and again, nothing is going to change. It's a waste of time.

BROWN: I want to get Marc in this. Go ahead.

HILL: As a member of the Green Party and a Jill Stein surrogate, I think it is important to underscore this point because people were initially saying that Jill Stein is doing this as some kind of a scam and the word scam has come up toward the Green Party and that Jill Stein is somehow padding her pockets and that the Green Party is lining its coffers with a recount. The question here is democracy.

The Green Party has been critical of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Again, we don't have a nickel in this in terms of the winner or the loser. It is about the American people. But Ben is making an argument that rest on fallacious assumption. He is saying why should we recount a fair and free election and what's the basis thing in --

FERGUSON: This does not going to change the outcome, that's the point though Marc.

HILL: Well, hold on Ben. I let you talk for a long time. Just let me respond. You're saying it's a fair and free election. What would make it a fair and free election is everyone had access to the vote and everyone's vote counted. Well, we don't know that's true unless we do the recount. So I agree with you, if it's a fair and free election we shouldn't contest it --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Hold on. But I may cut you off because I actually -- I want to get another voice in here, and that is Bernie Sanders' voice. He was on "State of the Union" today. He said he doesn't believe there is a smoking gun in this recount. Let's listen to what he said and talk on the other end of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE SANDERS, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Green Party has the legal right to do it. We have recounts probably almost every election. There's a recount -- no one expects there to be profound change but there's nothing wrong with going through the process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:45:01] BROWN: All right, Ben, we know where you stand on this but Marc, do you expect anything to actually come from this recount?

HILL: My best guess says no. I don't think that -- I think that if there was some massive conspiracy to, you know, win an election, it would be thorough enough that a good enough of a conspiracy that it wouldn't fall on its knees in a recount, you know. I just think there's a smoking gun -- (CROSSTALK)

HILL: Yes, I think the analogy really suck.

FERGUSON: You're even at least you're admitting nothing is going to change from this. And here's the other thing, Marc, do me a favor, OK --

(CROSSTALK

BROWN: OK. Well, what we do know is that this issue is not going away any time soon. The filing has been made in Wisconsin. We expect more to come and this discussion will continue. Ben Ferguson, Marc Lamont Hill, great to have you on, gentlemen.

HILL: Pleasure.

FERGUSON: Thanks.

BROWN: Lots more to talk about. Still to come, a bloody horrific day in the battle for the war torn city of Aleppo, Syria. Could the end be near for rebel forces fighting to hold their ground? We'll get some insight from someone who knows this country well. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: There is nothing left to be said. The whole world watched and was silenced. Those are the words of a mother in Aleppo speaking to CNN about the horror unfolding in that city. Forces loyal to Syrian president Bashar al-Assad ceased a key district in the city's east for the first time in four years.

[17:50:08] At least 46 people were killed, more than 300 wounded yesterday. A grim account that only begins to speak to the suffering endured by citizens in Aleppo and the suffering they still have to endure. To discuss this, I'd like to bring in Andrew Tabler in Washington. He's a senior fellow in the Arab Politics Program at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. He's also the author of "In The Lion's Den: An Eyewitness Account of Washington's Battle with Syria."

And I know Andrew you have a spent a fair amount of time in Syria as well. In your view, is this a beginning of the end, the final battle for what was once Syria's largest city?

ANDREW TABLER, SENIOR FELLOW, ARAB POLITICS PROGRAM AT THE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: I think it is. I think Aleppo and eastern Aleppo in particular is surrounded by the regime without much aid from the international community and so I expect that pocket is going to shrink more and more.

However, while that battle might be lost or slowly lost, Bashar al- Assad only controls about a third of Syrian territory. So the war is not over. There are lots more to do and we're not really sure how it's all going to work out. BROWN: But do you think eventually -- you say it's not over, but do

you think eventually it's inevitable that the rebel stronghold will fall to the regime?

TABLER: It would take a miracle. An offensive similar to what we saw this summer to push into Aleppo to relieve those who are besieged in that area. A couple of things working against the rebels, one is relatively little being said by regional powers about the eastern Aleppo's fall, the air strikes by Russia at the same time on those areas and most importantly, the delivery of Iranian Shia-backed militias to that area.

And so that cocktail of forces and events have worked against the rebels. Now, that works in an area where they're surrounded. In other areas like Idlib, the south and eastern Syria, it's unclear if the regime will be able to pull off something similar or if they'll just be content with the western part of the country, which many speculate they will be.

BRWON: You know, there is so much just devastation and horror and chaos in Aleppo. You have spent time over there, what are these people going through right now? I imagine very little access to food, to water, to electricity. What is it like over there right now?

TABLER: It's a combination of lack of food, lack of water. Certainly they've been without amenities for some time. But most importantly, I think it's overall a serious blow to those that thought that the international community would come and assist those who were demanding freedom inside of Syria.

It's very, very hard for those who are living in that area. I don't think they're really surprised. They've seen this coming for a while. Their city has been surrounded for a while, but the offensive to cut it in two, which is what's going on at the moment, is delivering insult to injury.

BROWN: And as you point out, the world has largely ignored what is taking place there, the tragedy in that city. Beyond humanitarian crisis that we see playing our, why is Aleppo so important to the United States? Why should the United States be more involved or do more in your view?

TABLER: Right. So, excellent question. Syria is the largest city. It's also been a major source of diplomacy over the last year with John Kerry trying to get aid into that area. That's another reason why it's important. But also, just the most importantly, this is -- this blow is a huge boost for Vladimir Putin's Russia.

And Barrack Obama has been saying that President Bashar is illegitimate (ph) but unwilling to do much more to get rid of that leader. Vladimir Putin looks very good coming out of this, Barack Obama doesn't. And this probably makes, I would say, Syria and the Aleppo crises the biggest black mark on Obama's presidency, whether it's domestic or foreign. And that's a legacy that's going to live with him for the rest of his days.

BROWN: Andrew Tabler, thank you for coming on and sharing your perspective.

TABLER: My pleasure.

BROWN: We all know Donald Trump won the election so why is he alleging that millions of people's cast illegal ballots. No evidence but a sharp accusation even as the president-elect views that a recount would be pointless. We're going to talk about it in the next hour. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Coming up on "PARTS UNKNOWN," Anthony Bourdain heads to Brazil to taste local favorites with a side of history.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, PARTS UNKNOWN SHOW HOST: Feijao Tropeiro, perhaps the most famous dish in Minas, beans, Manioc flour, smoked and cured meats and if you're lucky, fresh eggs.

Oh, there we go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's the tongue, Ox tongue. There's the foot, the pig's foot.

BOURDAIN: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May I?

BOURDAIN: Yes please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The food of Minas Gerais has nothing to do with our climate.

BOURDAIN: Yes, you're right. This is cold weather food.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's nice.

BOURDAIN: Yes, right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a very comfort food. He prepares the tongue.

BOURDAIN: Beautiful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And respects (inaudible).

BOURDAIN: You have a great culinary tradition here of flavors. You have fantastic ingredients, but an upper class (inaudible) people are insecure about their food until recently. Where did this come from?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a play -- Italian and French food. I used to say it's a complex --

BOURDAIN: What? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like a trauma. We've been colonized so they pose it

with excellent, good production in France (ph). They make good food in France (ph) with their production. But here, let's make the same technique but with our product. We have started saying, listen, this is good. Put in your restaurant.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A taste of inland Brazil. Tune in on "PARTS UNKNOWN" tonight at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

[18:00:08] BROWN: Its top of the hour now. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington in for Poppy Harlow, and you are live in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday.