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Wisconsin Election Recount; Wisconsin Prepares for Recount; New Confrontation Brewing for North Dakota Pipeline Protesters. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired November 28, 2016 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[09:33:14] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

In Wisconsin, nearly 3 million votes were cast in the presidential election and now all of those votes need to be recounted over the next two weeks. That is the task facing the states election officials who will meet in the next hour to approve a path forward on a process that could begin as early as Thursday. Green Party candidate Jill Stein making her request for a recount official on Friday after raising some $5 million to fund the effort. Stein, who notched just 31,000 votes in Wisconsin, far behind the totals for Trump or Clinton, telling CNN that while there may not be evidence of fraud, it is, quote, "good for Americans to be assured that our votes are counted."

Joining me now to talk about this is Michel Haas. He's the administrator of the Wisconsin Elections Commission.

Welcome, Michael.

MICHAEL HAAS, WISCONSIN ELECTIONS COMMISSION ADMINISTRATOR (via telephone): Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

How daunting will this challenge be for you guys?

HAAS: Well, it will certainly be a challenge. The real workers and heroes in this process will be our local and county municipal clerks, and the tabulators that they recruit to complete this process in a very short time line. Fortunately, we have a good group of seasoned and really battle tested local election officials who've been through a lot of unique election events the past several years.

COSTELLO: Well, here's the thing. If the Stein camp demands that paper ballots be counted, because I know you have electronic machines, but many of them, most of them, are backed up by a paper ballot. What if Stein says, you know what, I want Wisconsin to count 3 million paper votes? How can you possibly get that done in two weeks?

HAAS: Well, in order for that to happen, the campaign would need to go to court and obtain a court order. There's a pretty high burden of proof to convince a court that a hand count should be ordered statewide. Some clerks will tell you, though, that a machine count, in some cases, is not necessarily much faster than a hand count because every ballot needs to be counted -- or needs to be looked at anyway, even before it goes into the machine. But, clearly for some of our larger counties, they will want to use tabulating equipment. And the way those --

[09:35:33] COSTELLO: But could the Stein camp go to court and achieve that?

HAAS: Well, they could certainly -- they would certainly go to court, and then we would weigh in with our position, which is to follow the statute, and that statute allows each county board of canvassers to determine whether to have a hand count or a machine count.

COSTELLO: Well, here's why I'm asking that, because if you really do have to count some 3 million votes by hand, and you can't get it done by this December 13th deadline, which is a federal mandate, would that mean -- because the Electoral College meets, what, six days after December 13th, on the 19th. So would that mean that Wisconsin's electoral votes would be thrown out?

HAAS: No. And -- and, first of all, we have 72 counties, and I expect that many of our counties will be able to complete the recount, even a hand count, within a week's time. Our larger counties, that may be a challenge. But in the event that the December 13th deadline is not met, that does not mean the electoral votes are forfeited. It means that Congress does not necessarily need to honor the electoral slate, the Republican Party electoral slate. And then Congress would decide -- could decide Wisconsin's electoral votes. It does not mean that would necessarily happen, but there's -- the federal --

COSTELLO: But it could, right?

HAAS: Well, the federal statute says that the 35th day after Election Day is when any recount or contests are to be decided, otherwise Congress is not required to honor the electoral slate. Practically speaking, it may be difficult to believe that Congress would not respect the votes of Wisconsin's electors when the margin is not really in doubt.

COSTELLO: Right. And, of course, there are many, many Republicans in Congress at this moment, so it would be doubtful. But, still, it just -- just this whole thing that's happening right now with this count, in your mind, as an elections official, who has run elections without fraud, there is no widespread fraud in our election system in this country. So, for you, what does this say about our country right now that we're going through this process?

HAAS: Well, I think as any election administrator would tell you, in this profession, we don't fully get into the political debate or the motives. Our concerns are really more practical. The statute allows any candidate the right to file a recount petition as long as the petition is valid and the proper fee is paid, in this case, then we are required to issue recount order. And that's what we're here -- COSTELLO: I guess -- I guess -- I guess I'm asking this from a human perspective. You work really hard to make the election process go smoothly in the state of Wisconsin. And now this.

HAAS: Sure. I think, from the human perspective, sure, this is a surprise. I think that many of our local election officials may be initially frustrated that after such a smooth campaign they are being asked or required to conduct a recount on behalf of a candidate who received 30,000 votes out of roughly 3 million votes. I think that after that initial frustration, and we get over that mental hurdle, I'm confident that our local election officials are going to go to work and be professional, as they always are, and make sure that we have an accurate and prompt recount.

COSTELLO: Michael Haas, thank you so much for joining us on what is sure to be a busy morning for you. I appreciate it.

HAAS: Sure. Thank you.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, in a bitterly divided nation could a vote recount in Wisconsin and perhaps elsewhere heighten tensions even more? We'll talk about that, next.

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[09:43:25] COSTELLO: All right, so the recount in Wisconsin begins later this morning. You heard Michael Haas from the Wisconsin Elections Commission moments ago. He says they're just about to launch this big recount. When you get right down to it, the baseless recount. It just means the divide in our country just got a little bit wider, if that's even possible.

With me now to talk about this is Angela Rye, CNN political commentator and former executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus, and Jeffrey Lord, CNN political commentator and former Reagan White House political director.

Welcome to both of you.

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Carol.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Happy after Thanksgiving.

COSTELLO: Happy after Thanksgiving to you, too, Jeffrey.

Angela, were you listening to Michael Haas because it's so complicated depending on what the Stein camp actually makes Wisconsin do, that this could take -- this could just turn into an absolute mess, right?

RYE: And you're saying that as if this election has not been an absolute mess. So I think it would just be more of the same.

I think the reality of it is, you have a lot of people in this country, including me, Carol, every day that I've woken up since this election, I'm just like, did this really happen? And then when you see things like Donald Trump tweeting about the validity of election results, you're just going, OK, well, if he thinks that there's voter fraud in states that have strict voter I.D. laws on the books in states where they have some basic ID form on the books and they don't have any ID requirement, clearly voter suppression measures that have been implemented by the Republican Party don't work. If he thinks that there could be fraud, so then why not recount? The reality of it is, is you have a candidate who is ahead in the popular vote by over 2.2 million votes at this point, and Wisconsin, she's separated in Wisconsin by a little over 22,000. The question is, why not? If it is true that Donald Trump's voter -- or count went down by a little over 6 percent in one Wisconsin county --

[09:45:17] COSTELLO: Because even if the Wisconsin vote was wrong, she still wouldn't win the Electoral College.

RYE: Well, and then you have the states, Pennsylvania and Michigan, where they're -- we're talking about three states and 100,000 votes. Jeffrey, we can laugh, but I think the reality of it is, this is really troubling to people. Your candidate continues to push conspiracy theories. He does not represent us. And that is a problem. He's not shifted or evolved into representing us. So any way we can wiggle the heck out of this thing, we're trying! It's -- it's -- it's -- I'm just saying it's crazy.

COSTELLO: So, Jeffrey, this is -- this is what Angela is talking about, this tweet from the president-elect.

LORD: That's what I (INAUDIBLE).

COSTELLO: And it's baseless.

RYE: Yes.

COSTELLO: He said -- he tweeted out, serious voter fraud in Virginia, New Hampshire and California. So why isn't the media reporting on this? Serious bias, big problem, it's like, what? Because no one is saying anything about voter fraud in Virginia, New Hampshire and California. He won. He won the election. Like I'm not getting why he's tweeting this out.

LORD: I don't know. I mean he'll -- you'll have to ask him, I guess.

RYE: That is a first.

LORD: All -- all I -- all -- all I can -- all I can say is, look, this is not the 2000 election where we were squabbling over 537 votes in the state of Florida and it went all the way to the Supreme Court.

RYE: Right.

LORD: There is the thought that there would be a challenge, as Angela mentioned, here in Pennsylvania, which Donald Trump won by 70,000 votes. If that's the case, let me just say to you, Carol, there are seven states, Delaware, Maine, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico and Rhode Island where Hillary Clinton had a winning margin of 70,000 votes or less. Should the Trump campaign be demanding that all of those seven states be reopened?

RYE: Sure.

LORD: I mean, in other words, this is over. It's over. It's done. Stop it, stop it, stop it.

COSTELLO: And I -- I agree with you, Jeffrey. I just don't understand why the president-elect is prolonging things because, you know, it doesn't make sense to me.

LORD: Well, I think -- I think this is his -- his way of fighting back against this kind of nonsense. I mean -- and this is nonsense. This is just silly. I mean the American people are over it. We've all managed to get through Thanksgiving without strangling family members and all of that sort of thing. The Christmas season looms. Let's get on with it.

COSTELLO: So, Angela, why don't we just get -- what is -- what does Stein want? I don't even understand that, because she can't possibly win. It wasn't like she was a big Hillary Clinton supporter, you know, during the election campaign, because she wasn't. So what is her game here?

RYE: So I think that -- I think it's really simple. I think that she sees that there are doubts in the minds of American voters, whether they were Green Party, Libertarians, or Democrats or Republicans, and she is trying to soothe the fears and the concerns of some of the people by asking for a recount. If Donald Trump won fair and square, what harm does it do? I agree with Jeffrey, if he thinks that there's grounds for a recount in some of the other states, then do it. He's alleging voter fraud in some of these states again across the spectrum on whether or not voter ID is on the books or not. So if he thinks that fraud exists and that is allegedly the base, right, for Republicans pushing force -- pushing forth these suppressive measures, then why not do it? I think one of the things that we have not talked about enough, and is important when we talk about Wisconsin, is the fact that voter turnout was the lowest it's been in decades, in 20 years.

COSTELLO: Because people disliked both candidates intensely.

RYE: No. No, no, no. Exactly. And that's fine, Carol. I'm not negating that point. But what has been different this particular election, than any other, is voter suppression. And we should talk about that. If you don't want to talk about a recount, talk about why people felt like they couldn't go to the polls because they were afraid they didn't have the adequate ID. Is that really what we want our democracy to be about? We shouldn't make it harder for people to vote. We should be making it easier. That is a campaign that he should push.

COSTELLO: I know but that's two -- that's two separate things. That doesn't mean that the election --

LORD: (INAUDIBLE) aren't all together.

RYE: No, but I think it matters -- it matters when your -- COSTELLO: And counted the vote's wrong.

RYE: No, but I'm saying it matters if you're talking about why she could have lost Wisconsin, if she really did, if the 22,000 votes remain in Trump's favor and his lead grows, then what happened? And I'm telling you this is another theory that we've not talked about as much, instead of pushing the whole recount effort.

COSTELLO: OK. I got to end it there.

LORD: Well, Carol, all I can say is, Donald Trump proved to be a Ronald Reagan at the ballot box and Hillary Clinton was no Barack Obama and I think it's as simple as that.

RYE: Oh, my God. No, you're right, he was Hillary Clinton and 2.2 million votes ahead, Jeffrey.

COSTELLO: And you just made the chasm wider.

[09:49:43] We'll be right back.

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COSTELLO: A new confrontation may be brewing in the fight over the Dakota Access Pipeline in North Dakota. The Army Corps of Engineers say they have no plans now to forcibly remove thousands of protesters from a large camp site. Those protesters have been there for months. But authorities are urging these protesters to move to what's called a free speech zone by December 5th. Those protesters who stay behind will lose fire and police protection and they could be placed under arrest.

Joining us live from Los Angeles with more is CNN's Paul Vercammen.

Hi, Paul.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

This unusual move by the Army Corps of Engineers to come out on a Sunday and say that it would not remove these demonstrators from the camp site or small village, actually, seems like it could forestall yet another violent clash as it puts this off. As you may know, there is no construction going on by the Corps of Engineers right now. And Standing Rock Sioux leaders are saying all of this, this huge super- heated controversy, could have been avoided. Let's take a listen.

[09:55:14] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHASE IRON EYES, MEMBER, STANDING ROCK SIOUX TRIBE: If they would have rerouted the pipeline or went with their original route north of Bismarck, we wouldn't even be in this fight right now.

DAVE ARCHAMBAULT, STANDING ROCK SIOUX TRIBAL CHAIRMAN: What they need to do is cancel this easement. That's the safest thing to do. But by sending out a letter saying you have until December 5th, these public properties are closed, it just escalates and causes more concern for safety for everybody.

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VERCAMMEN: In Washington, D.C., over the weekend, another show of support for the Standing Rock Sioux as protesters march from the Department of Justice to the Washington Monument. They voiced their solidarity saying that the Standing Rock Sioux are right in this respect, that they fear that sacred sites will be destroyed and that it's possible that there could be water contamination because of this pipeline project, this $3.8 billion pipeline project.

Back to you now, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Paul Vercammen reporting live from Los Angeles.

All right, a bit of news just in to CNN this morning, the judge in the Dylann Roof case is granting Roof the right to represent himself. That's according to CNN affiliates. The 22-year-old is accused of killing nine people during a shooting inside a Charleston church back in June of 2015. Again, Dylann Roof is now acting as his own attorney and we believe right now he is questioning jurors. We'll have much more on this in the next hour of NEWSROOM which starts after a break.

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