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Judge Allows Charleston Church Shooter to Represent Himself; Officials I.D. Somali as Ohio State University Attacker; Trump Meets with Petraeus Amid Public Feud over Secretary of State Job; Besieged Aleppo Appears Set to Fall to Assad. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired November 28, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:34:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: The young man accused of shooting and killing nine people while their eyes were closed, mid- prayer at Charleston Mother Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina, he will represent himself in court. This morning, a judge ruled he can and will serve as his own counsel. The judge told him his decision is, quote/unquote, "strategically unwise." His attorney will remain on the case to advise him. It was June of last year that this man walked into this historically black church in downtown Charleston, opened fire on a Bible study group, killing nine people.

Joining me now, Jennifer Berry Hawes, a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter at the "Post and Courier" in Charleston. Right now, she's writing a book about the church shooting, the church massacre. Also with me, CNN legal analyst, Joey Jackson.

So, thank you both for joining me.

Jennifer, beginning with you, how did he appear this morning in court and how did others in the room respond to him?

[14:35:05] JENNIFER BERRY HAWES, REPORTER, POST AND COURIER (voice- over): Sure. Roof came into the courtroom wearing the gray and white prison -- or jail jumpsuit and sat at the defense table. Normally, we would expect him to be wearing street clothes when jury selection began. He sat down and very quickly the judge got into the defense motion to allow him to represent himself. The courtroom was, well, about three rows were filled with victims' families, survivors, including Felicia Sanders, whose voice I believe you heard a few minutes ago. They all sat very quietly and attentively and listened as he answered basic questions from the judge regarding understanding the charges against him. The judge advised him that he had very good counsel and probably should stick with him, but Roof answered politely, yes, sir, yes, sir, and still said he wanted to go forward with representing himself. And so, jury selection has been going on for the rest of the day.

He's been fairly quiet, answering respectfully and standing when the judge refers directly to him, but really not speaking much or raising many objections or asking the judge to question the perspective jurors with any additional questions. Not much of that sort of thing. BALDWIN: It's stunning but not unpredicted. You mentioned Felicia

Sanders. We'll play that sound byte. Let go ahead and play it for all of you to hear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FELICIA SANDERS, SURVIVED CHURCHS SHOOTING: We welcomed you Wednesday night in our Bible study with open arms. You have killed some of the most beautiful people I have known. Every fiber in my body hurts. And I'll never be the same. Tawanda Sanders (ph) was my son, but Tawanda Sanders (ph) was my hero. Tawanda (ph) was my hero. But as we say in Bible study, we enjoyed you, but may God have mercy on you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was that bond hearing. I just wanted to play that to remind everyone of the pain. In some cases, how forgiving this community was despite the atrocities that he had committed in there.

Joey, to you, the fact that -- and I think -- I hear that voice and I think, she would be testifying, and could be questioned by him.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: That's absolutely right. And so, think about it, and I think many people would look at that as a revictimization of victims --

BALDWIN: How can it not be?

JACKSON: -- and families. And you have him parading in court acting as his own counsel. Importantly to know, though, the court doesn't have a choice. About 40 years ago, Brooke, the Supreme Court said if a defendant is otherwise competent, meaning he can understand the proceedings and can participate in those proceedings, he has an absolute right and to otherwise defend himself. Logistically, of course, his attorneys who were representing him are now advisers. They would advise him. It's very, very difficult on those families that compelling saw there, toe sitting there as he goes on and on and questioning. And I can remind you, unskilled questioning based on he's not a lawyer. He has a right to it. The judge says he's competent having held that hearing. A lot of people believe it's a mockery of the system. You look at people like Ted Bundy in Florida and you look at --

(CROSSTALK)

Charles Manson did this.

JACKSON: Charles Manson, absolutely, California,

BALDWIN: Moussaoui (ph).

JACKSON: Moussaoui (ph), 9/11.

BALDWIN: -- hijackers.

JACKSON: Collin (ph) Ferguson, Long Island railroad. It's not without precedent, but it's difficult for the families to sit through this as it goes on.

BALDWIN: Jennifer, did you get a chance -- I don't know if you spoke with any family members in the courtroom today or talking to people, as this affected every fiber of their being in Charleston, how are they reacting to know he would serve as his own counsel?

HAWES: I think the response has been very much the same. I think there's a lot of concern that he may be directly questioning the survivors of the shooting, in particular. But Poly Shepherd (ph) and Felicia Sanders were both in the courtroom, both appeared very stoic, and they are really very strong, wise, faithful women. So, I think that the concerns people have for their well-being are well-founded. But I think they'll surprise people with how resilient on the stand, as I know of them. I think the community at large is surprised. This trial has been put off for three weeks while an examination was performed dealing with mental competency. I think a lot of people are just anxious to get this going. After that delay, I know a number of family members we spoke with were particularly.

[14:40:13] BALDWIN: I can't imagine.

Jennifer, thank you so much. Let's make sure we keep up with you as the process goes on.

Joey Jackson, thank you.

Next, back to our breaking news, a stabbing attack this morning at Ohio State University. What we just learned about that suspect, next.

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BALDWIN: An update on our breaking storing, the stabbing attack at Ohio State University, the only suspect, dead. We now have any details on this individual.

Joining me now, justice producer, Shimon Prokupecz.

Shimon, who is he?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN JUSTICE UNIT PRODUCER: We're not yet going to identify him or say his name but authorities know who he is. They've been talking to his family. He's an 18-year-old Somali. He's from the community, from the Somalian community in Columbus. And the authorities, the FBI and the local police, have now talked to his family and have been able to identify him.

There was a little confusion early on because of the car that was used in the attack, that car is registered to a family member. So, the authorities had not really been able to sort of confirm his identity. Until then, they were still going through the family, talking to some people to make sure they knew exactly who he is. Now they do. And they're pretty comfortable going back and looking at some of his social media posts, Facebook, and some items they found in the car that they're now going to try to sort out what exactly is the motive here.

[14:45:34] BALDWIN: OK. Shimon, wow, 18.

Shimon Prokupecz, with our justice unit, thank you very much.

Let's move on and talk politics now. A major rift, a very public rift emerging in this Trump transition team. A behind-the-scenes split over Romney versus Rudy. And now more, it is playing out in a very public way. A source telling CNN that the president-elect is, in a word, "irritated" with top aide Kellyanne Conway's public campaign against Mitt Romney's potential nomination as secretary of state. Conway taking the strained internal feud into the open with tweets.

And now this interview on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, SENIOR TRUMP ADVISOR: A number of people who feel betrayed to think that a Governor Romney would get the most prominent cabinet post after he went so far out his way to hurt Donald trump. There was the Never-Trump movement and then there was Mitt Romney. He gave speeches against Donald Trump. He attacked his character.

I'm all for party unity, but I'm not sure that we have to pay for that with a secretary of state position.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All of this taking place as General David Petraeus has arrived at Trump Tower today. The retired general and former CIA director also being considered for that secretary of state spot.

Romney, by the way, swinging by tomorrow, as is Tennessee Senator Bob Corker.

So, let's talk more about this. Andre Bauer, a CNN political commentator, Trump supporter; and also with me, Ryan Williams, former spokesman for Governor Romney.

Nice to see both of you.

Andre, first to you.

Let me just throw this possibility on you. David Axelrod tweeting, "This is the alternative theory. Kellyanne was assigned the role of trashing Mitt Romney, otherwise, it's an unbelievable breach."

Which is it, do you think?

ANDRE BAUER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I don't know. I've tried to analyze it myself. I can't really figure out what the angle is. I think it's magnanimous for President-elect Trump to consider Mitt Romney. I understand the other side as well, the folks who say he engaged in a process to derail the nominee for the Republican Party. So, I can see it from both sides.

BALDWIN: Why take it so publicly? There's a thing called decorum. BAUER: Well, it wouldn't be how I'd handle it, but there's a lot of

people that are rifted and they're willing to stand up and say that. When they publicly say, when they disagree with somebody, just public say I disagree and here's why I disagree with you.

BALDWIN: Do you think --Ryan, I'm coming to you in a second.

But folks are thinking, is this how future issues will be ironed out within the Trump administration, so publicly? I hear you saying, this is how you wouldn't prefer it, but might this be the next four years?

BAUER: What you're seeing is not a poised politician. You are seeing a boardroom businessman who is going to run this country more like a business. He ran on changing the whole process in Washington, draining the swamp. I don't think you'll see protocol that we're accustomed to. I think you'll see somebody that is brass knuckles, gets things done. Maybe not always like the media or other people expect, but he produces results. And at the end of the day, people want to see results more than they want to see polish.

BALDWIN: That swamp really likes Mitt Romney, I can tell you that, from folks I've been talking to.

Governor Romney, Ryan, your former boss, clearly enjoyed his Thanksgiving holiday while Kellyanne Conway and others took to TV to talk about betrayal and loyalty. We see beautiful photos of Governor Romney's family enjoying themselves in San Diego. I'm just wondering -- I think Dana Bash said this is like his moment of Zen, or this is Romney's Zen. Can you read the Mitt Romney tea leaves right now?

RYAN WILLIAMS, FORMER MITT ROMNEY PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN SPOKEMAN: Nothing more than governor Romney enjoys spending time with his family --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: While all this is happening?

WILLIAMS: It's Thanksgiving so, obviously, he's with his family. He wasn't paying attention probably to what was going on, the back and forth. I think he was focused on his family. Look, I give Donald Trump a lot of credit for even considering Mitt Romney this position. It shows he' willing too beyond his core group of advisers and look for the best and brightest elsewhere. There isn't a litmus test to serve in this administration. Even if this doesn't pan out, I think Donald Trump deserves a great deal of credit for even considering Governor Romney for this position.

BALDWIN: One more and then we'll move on. We know Governor Romney will be at Trump Tower tomorrow. If only we could be in the room! But who do you think is pitching whom?

[14:50:11] WILLIAMS: Oh, I don't know. I'm not going to speculate. I do think that Donald Trump is just sounding him out to see if he's someone who he would be comfortable with serving in his administration. I think that's a good sign that this is a president who's going to, you know, try to bring in the best and the brightest, even if they didn't support him during the campaign. And, you know, they have, obviously, some -- the relationship to repair. Whether or not Governor Romney serves in the administration, I think it's positive they're going to be on good terms going forward. So, the governor can be counsel to president-elect even if he's not in the administration.

BALDWIN: All right.

Andre, how about to the news we found out that the president-elect and the president were on the phone for some 45 minutes on Saturday. We understand from Kellyanne they talk regularly. She said they talk about serious issues that face the country and the world, although she added, they get along nicely, they disagree on many things and that's not going to change. But how do you see these two in their -- I don't know whether it's President Obama's sort of ad adviser in chief role or what? How do you see that relationship evolving over the next couple of years?

BAUERS: This is a passing of the baton. Both of these men love America. I didn't vote for President Obama but I admire him more and more the way he gave a speech after the way President-elect Trump was declared the winner and the way he's conducted himself since, in inviting president-elect to the White House, having a sit-down discussion, making the transition easier works better for everybody, works better for all Americans. So, I admire how both of these gentlemen have conducted themselves. Really, as an American, we should all be proud they're coming together, putting down party lines, putting past differences apart, and moving forward on trying to make the transition work as fluidly as possible.

BALDWIN: Absolutely. You are absolutely correct, sir.

Andre Bauer and Ryan Williams, thank you so much. I appreciate both of you joining me.

Coming up next, we do have more on our breaking story, this stabbing attack at Ohio State University. Police are now identifying the suspect as an 18-year-old Somali man. More on what happened coming up.

Also, heartbreaking images out of Aleppo. This little girl pleads for peace. Her message to the world. Don't miss this.

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[14:56:35] BALDWIN: The entire city of Aleppo in Syria could soon be under the control Bashar al Assad's regime. Syrian government forces broke through rebel defense lines Saturday and, today, is still control of much of the city's north. The Syrian president has vowed to take back all of Aleppo. Achieving that would world mark a turning point in the war that has now raged for more than five years. The government's renewed push, aided by Russian air strikes, has laid waste to Aleppo's rebel-held eastern neighborhoods. A rescue group still in the city claims more than 500 people have been killed in just the past two weeks. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh shows us a few of the holdouts in what's left

of this once-vibrate commercial city.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGAGUE)

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRSPONDENT (voice-over): This 7-year-old became the face and voice of eastern Aleppo's children. Her mother, Fatimah (ph), tweeted daily, desperate for the world to see her children and hear their voices, giving the outside world a glimpse of one family's life under siege surrounded by death and destruction as the regime's offensive to recapture eastern Aleppo intensified.

UNIDENTFIIED GIRL: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(EXPLOSION)

KARADSHEH: Over the past two weeks the bombs fell closer and closer. And on Sunday, this chilling tweet: "Last message, under heavy bombardment now. Can't be alive anymore. When we die, keep talking for 200,000 still inside. Bye," Fatimah (ph) tweeted.

An air strike destroyed their home. Bana's (ph) familiar face covered in dust, clearly shell-shocked, now homeless.

"There's nothing left to be said, Fatimah (ph) told us afterwards. The whole world watched and was silent."

Others like this 31-year-old English teacher were inspired by this family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Bana and I am from inside Aleppo.

KARADSHEH: El Hamdid (ph) tweeted, he, too, "hoped the world would save eastern Aleppo and his 9-month-old baby girl, Lamar (ph)."

Two weeks ago, el Hamdid (ph) told us everyone around him was terrified. By Sunday evening, like many other civilians, he prepared for the worst. Tweeting this, "If I die, I hope my daughter will live longer. Don't let her down to live as a free girl away of Assad's control."

Desperate call after desperate call from this living hell as the world watched. Activists and one of east Aleppo's last remaining doctors on Wednesday sent out this plea:

UNIDENTIFIED DOCTOR: We wonder why we have United Nations. Why do we have human rights laws? This has been a slow-motion train wreck and this message is from the people from Aleppo to the world.

KARADSHEH: Often the loudest cries for help were the silent ones.

Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, Amman.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: You are watching CNN on this Monday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank so much for being with me.

We are following new updates in today's terrifying rampage at Ohio State University. We now have details about this young man. I say young -- 18 years young -- who drove his car into a crowd of students before stepping out of it, had a butcher's knife, and started just slashing people left and right. Investigators say the suspect, who was shot and killed by police, is an 18-year-old of Somali descent, who is a legal permanent resident.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRAIG STONE, CHIEF, OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY POLICE: About 9:52 a.m., a male suspect drove a vehicle over the curb --