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Trump Adviser Warns Against Romney As Secretary Of State; Trump Furious Over Recount Effort Underway; Suspect Shot Dead In Ohio Campus Attack; Cuba Pays Tribute To Late Revolutionary Leader; Francois Fillon Wins French Primary Runoff; Trump's Global Business Interests; How to Shop Safely on Cyber Monday; A Comedian's View of Johannesburg; Reviving India's Motorcycle Industry. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired November 28, 2016 - 15:00:00   ET




[15:00:22] MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Michael Holmes sitting in today for Hala Gorani. We are live from the CNN Center and this is THE


There is a lot of activity at Trump Tower today as the U.S. president-elect looks to fill some of the most important roles in his cabinet. Retired

General David Petraeus among the high profile candidates attending closed door meetings in New York.

The former CIA director is under consideration, it would appear, for secretary of state. A vacancy that has deeply split Trump's transition

team. Their internal battle now turning into something of open warfare.

Senior adviser, Kellyanne Conway, publicly warning against the nomination of Mitt Romney, a leading contender who meets with Trump again tomorrow.

Romney, of course, was a fierce critic of Trump during the campaign.

Conway says there would be a backlash among Trump supporters if he is tapped as America's top diplomat. But she's not just advising Trump by

whispering in his ear, she has been taking to the air waves.


KELLYANNE CONWAY, SENIOR TRUMP ADVISER: The number of people who feel betrayed to think that a Governor Romney would get the most prominent

cabinet post after he went so far out of his way to hurt Donald Trump. There was the never Trump movement and then there was Mitt Romney. He gave

speeches against Donald Trump. He attacked his character. I'm all for party unity, but I'm not sure we have to pay for that with the secretary of

state position.


HOLMES: Donald Trump stirring controversy of his own meanwhile by claiming without any evidence that millions of Americans voted illegally in the

election that he won. It is simply unprecedented for a president-elect to allege such massive voter fraud.

Trump furious about a recount effort under way led by the Green Party nominee. So he fired off a series of tweets not only criticizing that

effort, but also claiming that the popular vote was stolen from him.

Let's bring in Phil Mattingly for more on these developments. He's live at Trump Tower in New York. It is the tweet about voter fraud that has a lot

people scratching their heads, and not just fraud but as he said massive fraud, millions of votes. Where he is getting that information from?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think the answer is that he is not getting it from any reliable source. I think this is what's both

frustrating and to your point, Michael, head scratching to both Republican and Democratic officials, who run the election state by state throughout

the United States of America.

There is simply no literature, no studies, and no results that would give any credence to what the president-elect is tweeting out. I think we asked

repeatedly Donald Trump's advisers over and over again if they could give us some information.

Give us some evidence of his tweet, they pointed to a 2014 study that has been debunked and had nothing to do with the 2016 election and that was

about the extent of it.

So you are seeing right now when you talk to Trump advisers, they say this, Michael, and I think this is an important point. He is very frustrated by

the fact that this recount is actually starting to happen in Wisconsin because of the Green Party candidate.

And there is some frustration by the fact that when it comes to the popular vote, he is currently losing to Hillary Clinton by more than two million

votes. It won't change the election results.

The recount won't either. Donald Trump is the president-elect of the United States and on January 20th, Michael, he will be the president of the

United States. But there is internal frustration about these things that have happened and we have seen that play out live on Twitter -- Michael.

HOLMES: OK, let's touch on that transition side, too. That descent on the choice of secretary of state and campaign boss, Kellyanne Conway seemingly

campaigning against Mitt Romney, and that is someone the boss is considering, which seems on its base extraordinary, and now you've got

David Petraeus potentially in the mix.

MATTINGLY: Yes, look, what we have seen over the course of the last 48 hours, not even talking about the recount, talking purely about the

secretary of state position has been something we're just not used to. Obviously advisors will give counsel to their principal, will give counsel

to the president-elect during a transition process.

We just don't expect to see it publicly. Here is the breakdown of where the secretary of state race stands up to this point. David Petraeus just

about an hour ago walked into Trump Tower behind me for a face-to-face meeting with the president-elect.

[15:05:08]Tomorrow, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Bob Corker has a meeting with the president-elect. He is the running as well, but

then probably the most important at least the one we're all keeping a very close eye on, Mitt Romney.

The 2012 nominee will have his second face-to-face meeting with the president-elect about this job. Behind the scenes, here's the reality,

Donald Trump's closest advisors are split. His chief of staff, Reince Priebus, is very much likes the idea of Mitt Romney joining the cabinet,

likes what he bring to the table, and likes his resume.

But as you noted, Kellyanne Conway has made it very clear both privately I'm told and publicly as we've seen. She is very opposed to that and she

is not the only one. Top advisers, top surrogates have made this very clear.

What they're saying is simply this, loyalty matters. While that may not be the be all end all deciding factor in a cabinet selection, when it comes to

somebody like Mitt Romney, the idea that he could do what he did throughout the general election, and still get one of the premier spots in a Trump

cabinet, that just doesn't make any sense to them -- Michael.

HOLMES: All right, Phil, we'll leave it there. Phil Mattingly there outside Trump Tower. Why don't we go now to a Trump supporter who says

Americans who are helping fund that recount vote in Wisconsin are throwing their money away, Scottie Nell Hughes, CNN political commentator and

political editor of

It's great to have you, Scottie. Let's talk about the recount in a minute, but that issue that is related in many ways, that tweet, "I won the popular

vote if you dig up the millions of people who voted illegally."

The president-elect basically claiming there has been massive voter fraud, A, and B, that that fraud cost him the popular vote. Do you have any clue

as to why he would say that and where he is getting it from?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm going to leave it to Phil to see if the Trump campaign actually produces evidence to back that

up, but I don't actually think that is where the focus is and I think Phil is exactly right. The Trump's folks are very frustrated at this recount.

I mean, it's truly an act of desperation, to be honest with you.

(Inaudible) once told that desperation is like stealing from the mafia. You stand a good chance at attracting some really bad attention. I think

that is what will happen to Jill Stein, the Green Party, and now Hillary Clinton saying they will be part of it.

I think this is all only going against what we need to be working on as Americans right now, which is unifying our country and getting behind a

president that is not even in office yet.

HOLMES: How is it unifying to say that there were millions of illegal votes in the election that he won and (inaudible) issues, Scottie, when a

president-elect makes such a claim with zero evidence, and then take his tweet to the logical conclusion, if millions of people voted illegally,

presumably officials across the country wouldn't they want large scale recounts?

HUGHES: That is the question right now, but you know, you always find out after the fact. You find out of illegal ballots, illegals that were able

to vote that were not necessarily --

HOLMES: Millions?

HUGHES: I think that might be a little bit of a stretch, the first to say that. I think that's a little bit pushing of a number, but we've always

found in 2008, 2012, both the Heritage Foundation came out and said that there was a discrepancy and maybe the (inaudible) would probably be a

better, more accurate number.

But either way it would not actually change the outcome of the election that happened. But I think it will do is cause the Americans to look

forward into the future of whether or not we want to stick with the Electoral College. That is where I think actually -- that conversation,

the path of that leads down.

HOLMES: Scottie, I'm just curious, as a Trump supporter, it (inaudible) that the man that would soon be president is even tweeting such a claim?

On the face of it, it throws doubt on the whole electoral system, the Democratic vote exists and to say something like that, millions of illegal


HUGHES: That does not throw much doubt on the system right now as to what Jill Stein and those --

HOLMES: It doesn't?

HUGHES: Not at all, far from it because in the end -- he still won. He will still be sworn in --

HOLMES: He is alleging massive fraud in the election.

HUGHES: But it's massive fraud that necessarily -- that goes towards him, that just brings up the popular like I said that has to do with the

Electoral College. What Jill Stein and the Democrats are doing right now within Michigan and raising millions of dollars, that is what puts doubt

into the idea of whether or not our system is working.

That afterwards you can just randomly come in with no real evidence and claim whether it be Russian hackers or somebody in their grandparent's

basement have caused this election to be thrown with no actual substance for their claim and get any sort of media attention, that right there is a

bigger problem than a tweet that Mr. Trump put out.

HOLMES: There will be a result from that recount. Is there harm in having the recount? You'll have the recount. It won't make a difference. It may

or may not find anything wrong. It probably won't by all account, but why is that more of a worry than claims of millions and millions of illegal

votes, which seems to be just and extraordinary thing for a president-elect to be tweeting out?

HUGHES: Well, if anything, let's just make sure guarantees in the future that on the Election Day that we have people who are legally supposed to be

and allowed to vote as the right of their citizenship are voting in the correct places.

[15:10:13]What Jill Stein is doing is raising millions of dollars that are being and taking up precious of our government employees having to go back

and recount already certified election results like what we just saw in Michigan.

That was just caught even by CNN saying that the Michigan votes are certified and those 16 votes are going straight for Donald Trump.

HOLMES: All right, we'll leave it there. Scottie Nell Hughes, it's always great to have you on the program, thanks.

HUGHES: Thanks.

HOLMES: All right, Cuba is honoring late revolutionary leader, Fidel Castro, with cannon fire and a 21-gun salute.

I promise you it did happen, we'll show it to you in a minute. It was happening near a fortress built in the 18th Century to defend Havana from

pirate attacks after the Cuban revolution became the notorious facility where Castro's opponent were jailed and executed.

Meanwhile, long lines of Cubans have been paying tribute to Castro at Havana's Revolutionary Square. His ashes have been placed at the Defense

Ministry. They will begin a journey to Santiago de Cuba, the birthplace of the Cuban revolution on Wednesday.

Now all of this coincides with an aviation milestone. The first direct commercial flight between the U.S. and the Cuban capital in more than half

a century. American Airlines Flight 17 had left Miami for Havana this morning with about 150 people on board. There are a couple of them landing

at Jose Marti International Airport. About 90 minutes later, it headed back.

We'll have more on Cuba soon, but first the story we have been following over the last hour or two, investigators trying to determine the motive

behind an attack on a university of campus in the state of Ohio.

A federal law enforcement official says a man first rammed a car into a crowd. He then got out of the vehicle with a knife and started slashing

people. Officials say the suspect is a legal permanent resident of the United States of Somali decent.

At least ten people have been injured, one of them critically. The suspect is dead, he was shot by police. The local police chief was asked about the

possibility of it being related to terror.


KIM JACOBS, COLUMBUS, OHIO POLICE CHIEF: I think that we have to consider that it is that possibility. We had an attack earlier this year with a man

with a knife causing multiple injuries. So we're always aware that that is a potential and we are going to continue to look at that. That's where our

federal partners are here and helping.


HOLMES: All right, let's get more now from CNN global affairs correspondent, Elise Labott. Elise, an American legal resident of Somali

decent, what else do we know about this suspect?

ELISE LABOTT, GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, Michael, that is about all we know at this time. I mean, the situation is obviously

very fluid. We know that he was of Somali decent. He was a legal permanent resident here in the United States and our reporter, Shimone

(inaudible) is also reporting that law enforcement understands he may have used a car that belonged to his family.

I mean, obviously the situation is very fluid and we don't have a lot of information. Also the U.S. government was very hesitant to give out any

information about visa records and things at this time.

We do not know that it's terrorism. Obviously, it fits with a lot of these kinds of attacks that we've seen in recent months in the last year. But

certainly no motive has been established at this point.

We don't know the gentleman's name. For sure we don't know anything about how he came to this country or why he may have under taken this attack


HOLMES: And the Ohio campus, you have a wonder about motive, I know they don't know anything as yet, but obviously a terrifying event for those on

the campus.

LABOTT: Well, of course, I mean, any time there is a shooter or anyone with a knife on an active campus, we've seen so many of these attacks,

whether they are terrorism, deranged or sick individual, and so many people have been killed.

You can just imagine the terror of the students. We don't know if it's just one shooter or one stabber or many at that time. So you can just

imagine the terror that was going through the minds of the students at that time.

It seems to be that the situation has been -- this attacker has been neutralized, and it seems to be so far that there are no more suspects on

campus. But obviously those students have a little -- they were shaken today and they will continue to be so.

[15:15:09]HOLMES: All right, Elise Labott, global affairs correspondent, thanks so much. Let's get a little bit more now from CNN's Deb Feyerick

who's been following this story from New York. Deb, first of all, let's go back a moment and outline for us exactly what we know happened.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it happened at about 10:00, Ohio time, and a man in a car drove up unto a curve in front of a

busy building, a chemical engineering building, and hit a couple of people and then got of his car, and with a large butcher knife, he simply started

swinging at anybody he could reach.

An eyewitness basically says that he had this crazy look in his eyes and he was chasing people around. Police by that time had been alerted, and a

police officer came, gave the individual verbal commands apparently to drop the knife.

And then when the person failed to do so, that's when the police officer opened fire and again an eyewitness saying that it was that police officer

who really was able to mitigate the amount of harm and damage that could have been inflicted by this suspect.

We know he is 18 years old. He is of Somali decent. This part of Ohio has the second largest Somali population after Minneapolis, St. Paul, and law

enforcement has been well aware of the threat of radicalization and have taken really serious efforts to try to bring the community so that if

something appears out of order, a community member will in fact stand up and say something.

We know the individual took a car, it appears to be his family's car, and carried this act out, but right now law enforcement not saying very much

about what happened or why it happened. What the motive was, but initially Michael, as you know, the campus was given an active shooter alert.

So those in the vicinity of the building were told to basically run, hide, or fight. Those who were away from the building were told to shelter in

place. Police didn't want anyone coming near that area because it would have made things even more challenging.

So you had students barricading themselves inside classrooms. Once the police arrived, they realized that one suspect was dead. They didn't if

there were any others and so it took a little while until they did a sweep not only of that area, but at a local parking garage.

And we did see a couple of people being brought out in handcuffs, but we don't believe that they were connected to this particular attack --


HOLMES: And Deb, we don't know whether he was or was not a student, has that been established yet and where does the investigation go now to try to

establish that motive?

FEYERICK: Well, right now officials are not saying whether in fact he was a student at Ohio State University. He was 18 years old, lived in the

area, is of Somali decent, and police right now, what they are doing is now in the investigative stage.

So they're looking at the car. They are looking to see if there's any information, perhaps a slip of paper, a match book with a name on it,

anything that could perhaps lead them to another individual.

They're also looking at all electronic communication that he may have had. So they are going through his cellphone. They are looking at phone

numbers. They are looking at the kind of websites that he may have been searching.

His social media, if in fact he had any. They want to comb through that as well. We are told that he did speak to the parents of this individual. So

they are really trying to go through everything to see whether in fact this was something that was just inspired, and we know that is often ISIS's


They just try to inspire individuals to take action wherever they are or whether this was something more focused or directed by someone else, but

the one thing that law enforcement wants to make sure happens, Michael, and that is that there is nobody else out there who is connected to him who

could be trying to do a secondary attack. So this is really right now in the throes of the investigation.

HOLMES: Yes, in the early days yet on motive and everything else. Deb Feyerick, appreciate it. Thanks so much.

All right, let's go back now to another one of our top stories. There he is, Patrick Oppmann, who has been covering the tributes to Fidel Castro.

Give us a sense of what went on today and the atmosphere there -- Patrick.

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, we are just seeing rivers of people going back half a mile or more coming in this plaza from both sides.

People waiting for hours now in the blazing hot Cuban sun. There is not a bid of shade in this plaza, but of course, these are the faithful


Many of these people came here because the government brought them in buses and serves their obligation. Others you can really see are grief stricken,

Michael. There are tiers or people who have canes that frankly probably should been allowed to skip this, but wanted to come here despite their old

age (inaudible).

[15:20:00]It really is all of Cuba and an amazing scene. Of course, there are VIPs descending here en mass probably as early as today. We're talking

about the presence of Venezuela, Nicaragua, Colombia, and many other countries in the region and from Africa and Asia.

Fidel Castro, of course, had a following throughout the world. Many detractors as well. But one country we have not seen any indication they

are going to be sending a high level delegation from is the United States.

Of course, we have normalized relations with Cuba, the U.S. has, but this is -- if you go by the U.S. Embassy today, Michael, it's one of the few

embassies in Havana that does not have its flag at half mass.

So perhaps cold war feelings die a little hard, but tomorrow will be the big day in Havana. There will be a celebration on Fidel Castro's life. We

expect to see Raul Castro in the plaza tomorrow evening.

Still unclear if he will deliver a speech to the Cuban people, but this plaza will be full of people as it was so many times throughout Fidel

Castro's career. This is where he would come to address the Cuban people at times most urgent like the Cuban missile crisis, like after the Bay of

Pigs when there was a national crisis.

This is where he came to speak directly to the Cuban people and tomorrow he will have his last visit here, the last chance to say goodbye in Havana to

Fidel Castro, and then it will continue on east about 700 miles from where I am.

Expect to see people along the road the entire time wishing him goodbye, and he will reach -- the area where he grew up in Cuba, Santiago de Cuba,

be buried in a cemetery full of Cuban patriots.

Again, Fidel Castro will be laid to rest next Sunday, but of course, his controversy, legacy, and the debate over who Fidel Castro really was will

continue on for a long time -- Michael.

HOLMES: Patrick, thanks so much. Patrick Oppmann there in Havana.

We are going to talk a short break here on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. When we come back, that man is the French conservative choice to run for president

next year. Who is Francois Fillon? We will be live in Paris. Do stay with us. We'll be right back.


HOLMES: Well, the line up for France's presidential election is starting to take shape. Conservatives have picked Francois Fillon as their

candidate. He easily defeated (inaudible) Alain Juppe in the Republican Party's primary runoff. Sixty six percent of the vote he got. Fillon will

likely face off against the far-right candidate, Marine Le Pen in next spring's election.

Let's go to Paris. CNN's Melissa Bell is there. A lot of people have been wondering in the last day or so. Who is Mr. Fillon, where did he come

from, how did he win? A couple of weeks ago nobody thought this would happen, but he was very clever about how he attracted the base, if you


MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: He went about it very cleverly really getting out there, Michael, getting amongst the people and three

years sort of marathon grass roots campaign that appears to have paid off and beyond what the polls had suggested would happen.

[15:25:07]He really came from nowhere to take the political establishment here in France by surprise, and of course, you could be forgiven if you're

on the outside of France looking in for not really having been paying much attention to who Francois Fillon is.

But given the size of that majority you mentioned at 66 percent of the vote, it's really taken everyone by surprise here in France. The big

question is, given that sort of surge of popularity from which he's benefited.

Whether this man and it was always expected that the winner of this conservative primary would take on Marine Le Pen, the far-right candidate

in next spring's election.

Whether this surge of popularity might just see Francois Fillon beat Marine Le Pen in order to become France's next president, have a look.


BELL: With those words, the upset of Republican primary became clear and Francois Fillon was thrust into the limelight. Until last Sunday, no one

had expected him to get passed the first round. With a beer, he toasted the fact that he'd beaten all six other candidates including his former


For five years, Francois Fillon served as the flamboyant Nicholas Sarkozy's relatively self-effacing prime minister. The job, a reward for backing

Sarkozy during his campaign for the (inaudible).

After the right lost it in 2012, Francois Fillon slipped from the limelight representing Paris as a member of parliament, but also getting away from

the capitol to the grass roots with a three-year campaign across the country that would ultimately see him defy the polls.

JEROME CHARTER, FRANCOIS FILLON'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER: The only part of the polls that really mattered were the trends and the main trend was that for

weeks, Francois Fillon was the only candidate who was constantly gaining support.

BELL: But after his victory in the first round, Francois Fillon still had his work cut out and this time very much in the media spotlight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What I refuse is the distribution of Christmas presents, promises that make no sense, they cannot be

financed. In a country that let me remind is just about the most indebted country of the developed world.

BELL: His right wing (inaudible) economic program went down well with many on the right. Ahead of the second round, he met with those members of

parliament who supported his call to scrap the 35-hour week, take on the unions and liberalize France's labor market.

All things, his ultimate rival, the more moderate, Alain Juppe, said could not be done. By the time the two men met for their final debate on

Thursday, the campaign had taken a decidedly unpleasant turn.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what makes us different from one another.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, this is a major issue. It means Alain Juppe does not really wish to change things. He's a man of the system with which he

simply wants to think of.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is just you second guessing other people's motivations.

BELLO: In the end, Francois Fillon proved more popular.

BRUNO CAUTRES, POLITICAL ANALYST: The very good part of the tactics and the strategy of Francois Fillon was the capacity to talk to different

targets of the right wing, the liberal right wing that wants less tax, less state, less civil servants, but also the traditional right wings

(inaudible) gay marriage. But also the most conservative part of the right wing, they want to protect France from the outside.

BELL: Francois Fillon will now be taking that platform to the broader electorate in the hopes that it will allow his party to see how (inaudible)

the rooting socialists and the increasingly popular far right.


BELL: Michael, given the scale of that majority, that 66 percent of the vote you mentioned that he won last night, the expectation is that he will

make it to the second round of next year's election, and if he beats Marine Le Pen, then he will have the popular mandate that he needs to see through

those very radical, economic reforms.

But there is a broader question that is of interest outside of France and that is Francois Fillon's very new positions on foreign policy questions.

For instance, he believes that it's time to cooperate with groups like Hezbollah on the ground in Syria.

He wants to cooperate with Moscow. In fact, he is the pro-kremlin figure here on the political landscape in France apart perhaps from Marine Le Pen

all seems, but if he's elected president of France, it will make a big difference with yet another member of the U.N. Security Council calling for

that (inaudible) with Moscow -- Michael.

HOLMES: All right, very busy couple of days for you, Melissa. Thanks so much, Melissa Bell there in Paris.

Short break now. When we come back, we'll return to one of our top stories, a bloody attack on a university campus in Ohio. We'll have the

latest details about the suspect when we come back.


[15:32:14] HOLMES: Welcome back to THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. I'm Michael Holmes. Let's update you now on the hour's top stories.

Police are trying to learn more now about a knife-wielding attacker at Ohio State University. Officials have not released his name but they say the

suspect is an 18-year-old of Somali descent and a legal U.S. permanent resident. He plowed his car into a crowd and then started stabbing people

before a police officer shot and killed him.

U.S. President-elect Donald Trump is interviewing more potential Cabinet picks today. Retired General David Petraeus under consideration for

secretary of State. A vacancy that has deeply split Trump's transition team.

Trump claiming massive voter fraud meanwhile in the election he won without producing any evidence, even as his margin of victory is widening in the

electoral college. Just minutes ago Michigan became the last state to certify its results declaring Trump the winner of its 16 electoral votes.

Cubans paying respects to late former leader Fidel Castro. Long lines all day in Havana's Revolutionary Square. Castro's ashes have been placed for

now in the Defense Ministry. A 21 gun a salute held earlier in the capital and in the country's second largest city Santiago de Cuba.

Civilians in eastern Aleppo say rebels are putting up little resistance as regime forces make sweeping gains. Government troops have driven a wedge

between rebel positions. Activists say 10,000 civilians have fled in recent days.

I want to get to a little more now on the investigation into that attack at Ohio State. Let's bring in CNN producer Shimon Prokupecz in Washington.

Shimon, let's -- update us on what you've been able to learn in the last hour or so.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN PRODUCER: So -- thanks, Michael. So basically at this point authorities have made a lot of headway in the investigation.

They know who the attacker is, who the suspect is. He is an 18-year-old male. He's 18 years old from the Somali community in the Columbus, Ohio,

area. They were able to identify him through some I.D. that he had on him but there were some confusion early on because the car that he used in the

attack is registered to a family member. So there was some confusion over who he is.

They are now poring over Facebook messages, other social media, other electronics that belong to him to try and figure out what motivated this

attack. Certainly the hallmarks, so that the earmarks, I should say of an ISIS attack or some sort of terrorist attack are here. You have an 18-

year-old who took a car on purpose, police say, drove it on to a sidewalk, struck several people and then came out and started stabbing people.

[15:35:09] Just using a knife and cutting people as he went through the crowd and was eventually shot by police. So now the goal of the police is

to figure out what the motive is here.

HOLMES: All right. Shimon Prokupecz in -- CNN producer reporting for us there.

I want to bring in Tom Fuentes into the discussion now. You know, Tom, you know, there's always circumstantial evidence. There's always a tendency to

think the worst in terms of motivation. I mean, what are the pointers towards the potentials for a terror link?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think first of all the style of attack, Jonathan (sic). The fact that you have someone try to run

people over with a car, and then jump out of the car with a large knife or machete and try to hack them, that comes right out of ISIS messages and

before that al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula postings in their "Inspire" magazine, that if you don't have a gun, you don't have explosive

capability, then just run people over, use, you know, kitchen knives or machetes or hammers, anything you can find, and we've seen attacks like


So the methodology, you know, kind of points to that. But at this point we still don't know if we just have an extremely mentally disturbed individual

who's heard those type of messages before, and maybe isn't inspired by ISIS or al Qaeda and just was inspired to hurt and kill people on his own.

Right now we don't know that.

HOLMES: Shimon, I'm wondering if you've heard any -- anything about whether this man is a student or what more we know about his family. What

has been able to be found out on social media and the like?

PROKUPECZ: So we don't have confirmation that he is a student. Authorities are still trying to -- last I've spoken to them they were still

trying to sort that out. However, there is -- we have the individual's his name but we're not reporting it. That name does match a student at the

school. That's really as far as we can go with that. But we have no independent confirmation that he was actually a student at the college.

The other thing really, the family members haven't spoken to. We don't know what they've said, we don't know what authorities have asked them.

It's a large family. He has a lot of siblings so they're sort of been working through the siblings, they've been working through family to try

and see if they can shed any light on why this happened. But that's an ongoing process and that's still going on right now.

HOLMES: Yes. And Tom, it is interesting, in Ohio it has been reported, it does have a large Somali presence, and the Diaspora is actually been very

good about self reporting. It's very active, isn't it? In terms of self- policing when it comes to radicalization.

FUENTES: No. That's true, and the relationship between the Somali community, the FBI, state and local police has been tremendous for many,

many years. And you saw the mall attack where somebody from the Somali community in Minnesota tried stabbing people in the mall, was shot dead by

an off-duty police officer, and that community came out within an hour or two to disavow that individual and praised the police. So they do have

strong support.

And one of the issues for this community is that many of them came as refugees from Somalia during the fact that it's been a failed state for a

couple of decades. They came to the United States wanting the American dream for their children, and their little sons that were maybe 5, 6, 8

years old at the time, 10 years later are 18 years old and they're being inspired in some cases by these jihadi Web sites, and postings in and

social media.

And the parents are completely unaware of it. The parents are in shock when they're notified that one of their sons has become a jihadist. So

they're very cooperative with law enforcement but also they're very much unaware in many cases that their son has decided to take this path.

HOLMES: All right. Tom Fuentes and Shimon Prokupecz, thank you so much. We'll keep across this story, we're actually expecting a news conference

next hour which we will bring to you of course any developments. Thanks so much, gentlemen.

FUENTES: You're welcome.

HOLMES: Well, President-elect Donald Trump could blur the line between board room and Oval Office in an unprecedented way. Experts say Trump will

be more exposed to allegations of corruption than any president in history. And when you look at that map you see why. It shows the 20 countries -- 20

-- where Trump has business ties. Talking about places like Saudi Arabia, India and Brazil.

Let's take Argentina for one where the Trump Organization and its partners want to build a $100 million tower. Argentine president, Mauricio Matti,

called Trump to congratulate him on winning the election. What's interesting, though, is that Ivanka, Trump's daughter, and one of the

people now heading the family business, was in on that call.

[15:40:04] Now since the call, Buenos Aires' city government has released a statement saying building permits have not yet been put in place, trying to

make that clear. And the president's office denies the project was even mentioned, but it is all about optics, isn't it? Could the potential for

impropriety be enough to overshadow Trump's term. It at least calls for scrutiny and that's where my next guest comes in.

Richard Painter, a former White House ethics lawyer and professor of corporate law at the University of Minnesota.

Thanks so much for being with us. This all continues to worry a lot of people and, you know, what's interesting is Donald Trump seems to be

saying, don't worry, it's legal, it will be fine. He says he can't have a conflict of interest. And legally he is right, isn't he? What are the

checks in place ethically, though?

Apparently we -- can you hear me now, Professor? Professor, do you hear me? It's Michael Holmes here.

Richard Painter, we do not have you. We will try to get you back because it's a conversation worth having. We're going to take a short break.

We'll see you on the other side.


HOLMES: All right, we have paid the people and we're going back now to Donald Trump's conflicts of interest. Richard Painter, former White House

ethics lawyer, professor of corporate law at the University of Minnesota.

I was saying before we were trying to get to you, this is a worry for a lot of people. And Donald Trump just seems to be saying, don't worry, it's

legal, it will be fine, that he can't have a conflict of interest. Legally is he right and what are the checks in place ethically if not legally?

RICHARD PAINTER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ETHICS LAWYER: Well, of course he can have a conflict of interest just like every other official in the

government. The point that he is making, or I believe trying to make, is that a particular conflict of interest statute does not apply to the

president. And that is a statute which would criminalize certain official action taken by a government official when that action has an impact on

their financial position.

That criminal statute does not apply to the president. We do not constraint the president's official action in that matter. But it doesn't

mean that the president is not subject to conflict of interest rules including the Emoluments clause of our Constitution, which prohibits any

official holding a position of trust with the United States government from receiving emoluments, gifts, payments from foreign governments, and that

includes companies controlled by foreign governments such as the Bank of China. And that applies to the president, as well as to everyone else,

along with a bribery and gratuity statutes. And so --


[15:45:02] HOLMES: I supposed it's all about what a gift is. I mean, if he gets a -- you know, what seems to be a bargain on a deal in China or

Saudi Arabia, who decides that that was a gift?

PAINTER: Well, if he is getting a good bargain, a better bargain that that would be obtained at an arm's length transaction, that's a gift. And if it

is paid for with money from a foreign government or a company controlled by a foreign government, that could be a serious problem under the Emoluments

clause of our Constitution. So throughout the Trump business empire, they're going to have to make sure that least they don't have foreign

government coming in and that includes foreign diplomats staying in the hotels, vying with each other for the most expensive suite. Fairly the

rumor rates have gone up since he was elected president.

HOLMES: Yes. Which is already being suggested could happen at his new hotel in Washington. What we know, I suppose is one thing, but also what

we don't know. I mean, there have been no tax returns. We don't know what his companies, if his companies, as some have speculated, have investments

in and by Russian oligarchs, the ties people link to the Kremlin might have, his ties in China in a business sense that might influence policy.

So does that put even more pressure on him to release tax returns?

PAINTER: Well, it should. Every other president has released tax returns. Every other candidate for president has released tax returns. And if he

doesn't release the tax returns, I think Congress is going to have to think seriously about amending the financial disclosure laws to specifically

require disclosure of income from sources outside the United States. And that's income earned directly or indirectly from sources outside the United


We're entitled to know how much money our president is getting that originates in China, in Russia, in Turkey, in other parts of the world.

And we could that with tax returns, but if he doesn't choose to disclose those, I think Congress is going to have to think seriously about amending

the disclosure laws.

HOLMES: Yes, I understand. One other aspect I suppose is being the involvement of the children. We've had his son meeting with diplomats and

officials in Paris, on Syria, or in Russia. He had his daughter in that meeting with the Japanese prime minister, on the phone call with the

Argentine leader.

What -- he says the kids are going to run the company but there already seems to be a blurring between public and private if you like with the


PAINTER: Well, yes, we were told that he would run the country while the children run the company. I never thought that arrangement would be a very

good one at all and criticized it before and immediately after the election. But then we found out very quickly that the children are

intimately involved with the transition team, and that means will run the country. So we have quite a bit of confusion here.

I think the Trump transition team needs to make clear to the American people what the role of his children is going to be and also what they're

going to do with these businesses. And I have repeatedly urged that Mr. Trump divest himself with these business interests before he becomes

president, and particularly his name should not be going up on buildings all over the world where people are paying him money to put his name on the


That is a gift in many circumstances that I think would create serious problems. And also who's going to protect these building? Who's going to

provide security? Is it going to be foreign governments? Is it going to be the United States government? Is it going to be the Trump Organization

that pays for security? Or is nobody going to deal with that problem? Then we could have a tragedy.

This is unprecedented. A president of the United States having his name going up on buildings all over the world. We don't have the Obama Tower in

downtown Nairobi. This is not something that the president should be doing.

HOLMES: Uncertain days, unchartered waters. Richard Painter, a former White House ethics lawyer and professor of corporate law at the University

of Minnesota.

Professor, thanks so much for being on the program.

PAINTER: Well, thank you very much.

HOLMES: Well, retailers are hoping for than online sales boost as consumers take to their keyboards for Cyber Monday. Now this of course

comes on the heels of the Black Friday shopping weekend. But the rush to find the best deal online can sometimes land you in trouble.

Samuel Burke has been looking into all of this, joins us now from London.

Yes, it's a mine field out there. What sort of activities are out there? What's going on?

SAMUEL BURKE, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Michael, we've heard so much about fake news in the past month and now people have to worry about fake deals,

especially on Cyber Monday.

Let me just put up a list here of the traps that people are falling into. Companies are telling cyber security firms say that imposter brands are a

growing problem on Web sites and especially on App Stores. One in 10 Black Friday apps, for example, have been deemed unsafe. So be careful of those

third party app stores. And especially forged rave reviews.

[15:50:04] They're seeing more and more of them where you had every single review that has five stars, so if it all has five stars it might too good

to be true or a true review.

HOLMES: Yes. And just very quickly, 20 seconds, what do we do?

BURKE: It's pretty simply, actually. Let me just put up a list. Be wary of those third party app stores that you may be get from your local cell

phone provider. Avoid Web sites that don't have the S in https, that's incredibly important. Apps that are asking for suspicious permissions like

access to your contacts, and beware of grammatical and spelling errors. Our copy editors will be happy about that one.

HOLMES: Indeed they will. All right, Samuel, good to see you, my friend. Samuel Burke there in London.

All right. Let's go to Johannesburg now. The hub of South Africa's creative industry. It's where comedian Tats Nkonzo honed his skills. He

shared some of Johannesburg's cool spots with us now. The sights and experiences in this week's edition of our new series "Around the World."


TATS NKONZO, COMEDIAN: Downtown Johannesburg, in South Africa, under a bridge, surrounded by the coolest art. The kind of city where you find

treasure in the most unlikeliest of places and that is exactly why I love this place.

What would you say make the Johannesburg streets cool?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Johannesburg has become a really big graffiti culture and that people are coming from all over the world to paint here. We've

got a lot of international artists. Plus our amazing local artists. And so the city is ending up looking like a huge canvass.

NKONZO: I am at the rooftop of Randlords, which for me has the best view of the city. This is our concrete jungle where dreams are made of. People

love to come here for the sunsets, just to take it all in.

Another thing I love about Joburg is obviously the night life. We are heading into Kitchener's. We go to this bar once a week, it's comedy

night. And that is just a little snippet of what Joburg is all about. But hey, you can always come check it out for yourself. See you.


HOLMES: Welcome back, everyone. All this week, CNN is zooming in on the world's fastest growing major economy, India.

Here's Andrew Stevens.


ANDREW STEVENS, CNN ASIA-PACIFIC EDITOR (voice-over): The lure of the open road in a nation infamous for gridlock. The Madras Bulls Motorcycle Club

gets together for a ride at least once a month. David Ebenezer says it's the perfect antidote to the daily grind.

DAVID EBENEZER, MEMBER, MADRAS BULLS MOTORCYCLE CLUB: So you're burdened with work worries, you've got stuff to deal with, you've got errands to

run. And then you start your bike. Right? And the whole world just stops. With every single beat of the piston, you can feel your worries

just diminishing. You feel yourself lighten.

STEVENS: If you're wondering why they call themselves the Bulls, it's short for Bullet, the iconic 500 CC Indian motorcycle built by Royal


[15:55:09] It's a storied brand, originally British, Royal Enfield has been around since 1890. The association with India began in the 1950s but it

started building bikes locally for the army and police. The British parent went under in the early 1970s but its Indian subsidiary kept on going. By

the 1990s Royal Enfield have lost its shine and was taken over by Eicher Motors. Then at the beginning of the new millennium Siddhartha Lal came on

board to turn things around.

SIDDHARTHA LAL, ROYAL ENFIELD CEO: We put in new products and technology and retail and after market, and quality, and developed the brand to be the

definitive major motorcycle in India. That took -- went over a decade, I would say up to 2010. Maybe Royal Enfield was growing much slower than the

rest of the industry.

STEVENS: In 2010, Royal Enfield was selling only 50,000 bikes a year, but its popularity has exploded. This year, it expects to sell almost 700,000.

And it's reconnecting with its British roots with a new R&D facility set to open soon in the United Kingdom.

LAL: It's more about the excitement of motorcycle and the aesthetic parts and all of that. So it is important for us to be here because we can make

a better motorcycle for a more discerning customer.

STEVENS: India will remain home for Royal Enfield despite the plans for international expansion. A third manufacturing plan will open in mid-2017

which will boost the number of workers in India from 2,000 to 8,000 in total. The brand has also created spinoff businesses ranging from Enfield

motor bike tours across the country to customization.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We design motorcycles, we restore, we customize, we paint. This used to be a stock Royal Enfield Thunderbird. I wanted to

make it an off-roader. This is Thor, the god of thunder, because it gives sound which is ability like a thunder.

STEVENS: Lal has big plans. His aim, to grow Royal Enfield from an Indian to a global icon. Apart from launching in the U.S. and Europe the company

also plans to expand in Southeast Asia and Latin America.

LAL: It is being neglected category in motorcycle. And we want to bring enthusiasm, and love, and joy and some excitement into the segment and

hopefully the segment will grow in the rest of the world as well.

STEVENS: But for Lal it's all about the journey, taking an Indian legend to the world, and he is planning to enjoy the ride.


HOLMES: Thanks for being with us. I'm Michael Holmes. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" next.