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Trump Team Pushes Forward with Administration Picks; Trump: Flag Burning "Must Have Consequences"; Terrorism a Possible Motive in Ohio State University Attack. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired November 29, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:16]

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And this morning, we learned that Georgia congressman and Obamacare critic Tom Price is Trump's pick for Health and Human Services Secretary. Also making news, a tweet from Trump this morning that takes aim at what late Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, called a form of free speech, flag burning. Trump tweeting, "Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag. If they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail." All of this coming as a series of high profile meetings fueled speculation about who will be Trump's Secretary of State. CNN's Sara Murray joins us now -- live from Washington with more. Hi, Sara.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Well, good morning, Carol. Look, you would think that Donald Trump would want the conversation to be about expanding his cabinet picks. Would be about what he wants to do as president, which is, repeal Obamacare among other initiatives. But then he put that flag tweet out there which raised plenty of eyebrows, in part because the Supreme Court has upheld the view that even if you find the notion of burning a flag abhorrent, that it is still protected under the first amendment as part of free speech.

So it's a little unclear why he decided to just toss that out there, especially on a day when he was already making news. His transition team announced that Donald Trump had decided on Georgia Congressman Tom Price to be the next head of Health and Human Services. Now, this is someone who's been a vehement critic of Obamacare. Obviously that fits in nicely with Donald Trump's promise on the campaign trail to repeal and replace Obamacare. And it's the kind of decision that has already being cheered on by conservatives.

Now, second on the list of staff announcements also in the health care vein is Seema Verma. Right now, she's the CEO of a national healthcare policy company. And Donald Trump has chosen be his administrator for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

Now, all of this is an indication that Trump is still moving forward on staff picks. Despite some wrinkles for some of these big positions, we still don't know who his pick is going to be for Secretary of State. We know he's having dinner with Mitt Romney tonight, someone who was a critic in the past, but who is now under consideration for a top slot. He's also meeting now with Senator Bob Corker, another person whose name has been thrown in the ring for Secretary of State. And in case this is not busy enough for the president-elect, he has decided that later this week is when he is going to be on his thank you tour. That is going to start on Thursday in Ohio. Carol?

COSTELLO: So, the first stop on the post-election thank you tour is Thursday, as in a couple days from now?

MURRAY: As in a couple days from now. So, we'll see how far he is on fleshing out this cabinet by the time he hits the road on Thursday.

COSTELLO: All righty then, thanks so much Sara Murray reporting live from Washington. So let's talk about this. With me now is Jonathan Swan, national political reporter for "The Hill," Zeke Miller is a political reporter for "Time," and David Lauter is Washington bureau chief for the "L.A. Times." Welcome to all of you.

So, Mr. Trump will make his first stop of a post-election thank you tour on Thursday and he hasn't even named his cabinet and his staff yet. Zeke, what do you make of that?

ZEKE MILLER, POLTICAL REPORTER "TIME": You know, post-election thank you tours aren't something we're used to seeing. Donald Trump likes to keep the campaign around. Seems to be wanting to continue some of -- the glory days of the campaign, where he came from behind and won in a shocking victory. He likes the adoration of the crowds around him. We saw him bring out another version of his "Make America Great Again" trucker hats just the other day in Florida. He just, you know, can't leave that space behind. I think that's a sign of how he wants to govern. He's not going to be the typical president that is going to be locked up in the Oval Office or the White House. He wants to go out and see the American people. -- He'll hold rallies as president. And that's going to be a big change. We're all going to have to adjust to because that's how he plans to govern.

COSTELLO: Yes and I think that's great that a president wants to stay connected to the American people, right? But he hasn't named his staff and he's skipping national security briefings. These two people he named as Health and Human Services Secretary and also as the administrator for Medicare and Medicaid are both close to Mike Pence and they were really -- I mean, if you read between the lines, Mike Pence suggested them and Donald Trump took him up on it. So, will Trump be the kind of president that goes out and holds these rallies and excites people and he'll leave the people in Washington to do the job? Is that sort of how it will work, Jonathan?

JONATHAN SWAN, POLITICAL REPORTER "THE HILL": I think it will be certain issues Donald Trump will -- I mean, if we remember how Reagan governed, it was you know the three big things and then he left a lot of people for detail. I think Donald Trump will probably do something similar. It's clear that in some of these areas of policy, Donald Trump is not as well verse the as Mike Pence, particularly not as well versed as someone like Tom Price who was one of the leading opponents of Obamacare.

So, I think you will see some of that delegation in some areas, but on immigration and some of his big-ticket items like trade. I don't believe that Donald Trump will delegate.

COSTELLO: Maybe I'm making too much of it. But if you're leaving in a couple days to go on this thank you tour which is kind of like a victory tour and I don't know, maybe he can get all this stuff done, David, and I just don't realize it.

[10:05:16] DAVID LAUTER, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, he's clearly got a very busy agenda, right? And there are a lot of things that he needs to do. He needs to finish his cabinet, as he said. But he also wants to maintain the support of his voters. And part of that is getting out into the country and showing people that he's not being a prisoner of Washington or prisoner of Trump Tower perhaps.

And so, you know, I think it's not really surprising. As Zeke said, he loves the adoration of the crowd. And this is something that's going to be a recurring feature of the Trump presidency. And I think, we're all going to have to get used to that. And it's going to be an antidote in some ways for him to avoid the frustration and gridlock that may afflict -- some of his proposals.

Because you know, you can appoint someone like Tom Price who has a plan for replacing Obamacare. But this is a plan that the Republicans in the House have not actually supported. Price has been pushing this for several years. He's not been able to get it to a vote, let alone the Senate. So, you know, as Senator Alexander from Tennessee said, you know, repealing Obamacare, that's kind of easy. Replacing Obamacare, that's hard. Rallies are a substitute for that.

COSTELLO: Well, Zeke, it is interesting, these two people because really, Congressman Price -- is vehemently opposed to Obamacare. In fact, I listened to a -- floor speech from 2009 and he was angry about Obamacare and accused the Democrats of not working with Republicans. So it made me wonder will Congressman Price now reach out to all members of Congress, both Democrats and Republicans to -- somehow replace Obamacare with something more appealing?

MILLER: I'm sure we'll see him, you know reach out to certainly Democratic senators as part of his confirmation process. That's standard. We'll see when it comes to legislating, even if he's going to be the person drafting that. I mean, you know, he will soon be likely a member of the president-elect's cabinet. Normally cabinet members aren't deeply involved in the nitty-gritty of writing legislation there, the ones who are implementing it, managing that.

So it will be sort of he'll have an advisory role in shaping it. Maybe he'll do some of the work with Republicans in Congress, now on the front end of that. But it remains to be seen, you know, how deeply involved he'll be. Certainly Speaker Ryan has part of his broader proposals that he wants the Republican Congress to take up in January. He has some Obamacare proposals, you know, that don't quite jive with what Congressman Price has.

So, it remains to be seen exactly what his role will be in doing that, if it will be on the implementation side or still keeping a sort of a foot in the legislation side as well. COSTELLO: OK. So, well this is percolating out there, Jonathan. Donald Trump sends out this tweet about flag burning and how if you burn a flag maybe you should lose your U.S. citizenship and everybody's sort of scratching their head, wondering is this another deflection and are we like just playing into his game?

SWAN: One thing - well, firstly, I'll just add one thing to what Zeke said, which is, I was talking about an hour ago to a source who used to work with Tom Price. And this is the Republican study committee. He was incredibly detail oriented. He would actually edit words on Word document, stay up late at night. So, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually does have quite a hands-on role.

But to the flag burning thing, the most useful way, I think, of seeing - of watching Donald Trump at the moment is he's choreographing a reality TV show, building suspense at key parts, which we've seen throughout the whole campaign. You know, he built suspense around, whether he was going to say Barack Obama was born in the United States.

And he takes great pleasure, when you talk to sources close to Donald Trump, he takes great pleasure in sitting back, sending a tweet out to the universe and watching, you know the chaos and calamity that ensues on television and, you know, with all of us chasing it around. So, you know, Donald Trump likes watching these things play out in the public sphere. And that's why he actually encouraged Kellyanne Conway to go out and talk publicly. He enjoys watching conflict in the public sphere.

COSTELLO: You know, -- I'm conflicted over Donald Trump's tweets. Because one part of me says, oh, we should ignore them and talk about what's important, which we did. We talked about his pick for Health and Human Services Secretary. Another part of me says, he is going to be the President of the United States in January. And even things he tweets will have ramifications. Because guess what, David, he's President of the United States. So what do you do as a journalist?

LAUTER: Well, I think you have to report on what the man says. And, you know, when he makes a statement, whether it's a statement about flag burning or his tweet yesterday about claiming falsely that millions of people had voted illegally, those are important statements. You can't just sort of brush them aside and say, well, it's just a tweet. You know, as you said, he is going to be President of the United States.

[10:10:16] And when the President of the United States speaks or when the president-elect speaks or tweets, it's an important statement of policy, and it tells you something about his statement of mind, it tells you something about the way he's approaching his duties in governing. So I do think they're important. I think we have to pay attention to them.

COSTELLO: So Zeke, is it a matter of knowing which ones could have great ramifications and which ones are just, oh, harmless tweets?

MILLER: Yes, I think to Jonathan's point, it's more a point of which ones are sort of - you know, his conversation starters, part of his reality television show he's constructing. The ones that are just -- the ones that are -- which are the ones we should take literally and which are the ones we should take as sort of his theater direction. And that's the challenge for journalists, obviously. It's a challenge for Republicans in Congress to read the tea leaves coming out of the White House. It's a challenge for the rest of the world to understand what the next leader of the United States is thinking, which, you know, which statements, you know, does he really care about, which are there just to float an idea and see what happens, partly because, you know, maybe he's deflected for something else or because he just enjoys watching, you know, everyone running around talking about it.

COSTELLO: Right and you know, -- I don't want to make it seem like I'm blowing off the flag burning thing because that is disturbing when you see someone burning the American flag. It's just is. On the other hand, as Justice Scalia said, you know, the now deceased Justice Scalia, that Trump so greatly -- admires, burning a flag is a form of freedom of speech. So, that's sort of why -- this is an issue that's gone through the Supreme Court, right, David?

LAUTER: It has. You know, it was a split decision. And it was one that interestingly split, liberals and conservatives, in an unusual way. Justice Stevens, who is one of the more liberal members the court, opposed flag burning, and said that it was something that he did not think was protected by the first amendment. Justice Scalia, who is one of the most conservative members of the court, said that it was. So it's an issue, as you said, that does have a tremendous emotional resonance for people and in affects people in different ways.

But yes, this has been through the Supreme Court. It's been litigated. It's not something that there's no rash of flag burnings out there that suddenly is going to need a presidential response. So, you know, he tossed it out there for reasons that we don't really understand. It's his show and we're living in it.

COSTELLO: Well put, David. Thanks to all of you for joining me this morning. Jonathan Swan, Zeke Miller, David Lauter. Still to come in the "Newsroom," police comb for clues on social media. Up next, the latest on that terrifying Ohio State University attack.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:16:45] COSTELLO: High drama within the Trump transition team over the Secretary of State role, parade of candidates in and out of the Trump Tower and Trump's golf course in New Jersey. The latest candidate, General David Petraeus, well respected in Republican circles but tainted over his mishandling of classified information. Petraeus pleaded guilty to charges he gave classified information to his mistress, Paula Broadwell, so she could write a book about General Petraeus. Senator Rand Paul has a problem with that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL, (R) KENTUCKY: They spent a year and a half beating up Hillary Clinton over revealing classified information. And then they would appoint somebody who the FBI says, not only revealed it but then lied about it in an interview and purposely gave it to someone who did not have the clearance to have that. I think that's a potential problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So let's talk about that. Joining me now is Nick Burns. He's the former U.S. Ambassador to NATO and a member of the Foreign Policy Board in Secretary Kerry's state department. Welcome, sir.

NICHOLAS BURNS, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO AND STATE DEPARTMENT FOREIGN POLICY BOARD: Thank you so much, Carol.

COSTELLO: Does it matter that Petraeus pled guilty to mishandling classified information?

BURNS: Well, it will certainly be an issue if he is named in this confirmation. But I would say this, Carol. This is going to be a consequential choice for Donald Trump. He's going to be the first American president with no experience in politics, public service, the military, so he needs someone in this critical position of great intellectual depth of experience internationally. General Petraeus is one of those people.

So, there is this downside, the issue that you've asked about. But there's a huge upside to David Petraeus, as there would be to Mitt Romney and Senator Bob Corker. I think all three of them have the judgment, experience, temperament, that will offset what you don't have right now, certainly with President-elect Trump or with General Flynn, the new national security adviser. And there are people who will have instant credibility internationally. So there are tradeoffs to these choices. But these are three impressive people, Petraeus, Romney and Corker.

COSTELLO: Well, even Trump's pick for national security adviser, General Michael Flynn, as you mentioned, he's also been accused of mishandling classified information. So does this happen often?

COSTELLO: It does not happen often. It does not happen often at that senior level. It's certainly an issue that one has to take very seriously. In the case of General Petraeus, I would just say, that he's of course apologized for this. He paid a major price in having to resign as Director of the CIA. And this was -- four years ago.

And so, I think he should be considered. I think he's a great public servant for the United States and a man -- a person of great judgment, experience, who has key relationships around the world, not just in the Middle East where he served but around the world. The same is true of Chairman Corker, who is chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee and of Governor Romney. And this position is going to have to balance the fact that Donald Trump does not have international experience. -

COSTELLO: Right. --

BURNS: And the United States is facing, Carol, as you know, tremendous challenges overseas at this time. COSTELLO: I'm sorry to keep harping on the classified information thing. But many Republicans are very supportive of General Flynn and of General Petraeus. But during the - but I would say, many Democrats are scratching their heads because Republicans made such a big deal over Hillary Clinton's mishandling of classified information,

[10:20:16] so is her mishandling of classified information different than the others?

BURNS: I think -- I was a supporter of Hillary Clinton during the campaign. I was proud to be. I think too much was made of the e-mail issues. That was certainly a problem. But I think she answered and her campaign answered all the questions reviewed by the FBI twice and found not to be subject to criminal prosecution. And so I think it was politicized during the campaign.

These are serious issues, Carol. I'm not -- I don't mean to say that they shouldn't be part of the judgment that a senator should make when he or she seeks to confirm or not a presidential appointee at the cabinet level. They have to be taken into consideration. But you also have to balance that by looking at the whole person, the whole person's entire public life. And in the case of General Petraeus, it's a life and a career of great distinction.

So, I would make encourage senators to look at the whole person and look at the entire career and look what he would add to this cabinet if he is selected.

COSTELLO: Ambassador Nicholas Burns, thank you so much for your insight. - Still to come in the "Newsroom"

BURNS: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: You're welcome. He seemed like a normal kid. That's how a neighbor describes the Ohio State University attacker. Up next, she will join me live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:26:03] COSTELLO: Good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. Right now, authorities are trying to chase down a motive in that terrifying Ohio State University attack that left 11 people wounded. This was what it looked like yesterday after the attacker plowed his car into campus and then actually -- he plowed his car into a crowd of people walking on campus, and then he got out of the car with a butcher knife. Officials say, it appears the 18-year- old Somali-born student, who carried out the attack, posted complaints online about how Muslims are treated before the rampage. Let' bring in CNN's Rosa Flores, she's live in Columbus, good morning.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. We're learning more about those chains of events and also about the reactions of the people that were around the attacker. From talking to one of the witnesses, he says that it took them a few seconds to even process what was going on. The fact that an individual was ramming a vehicle into a crowd of people and then he said it took them another few seconds just to grapple with the fact that this individual got out of the car, with a knife, and started attacking everyone. Now, we have 911 called that also tell us what happened. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED 911 CALLER: The guy ran a car through a crowd of student, he did it purposely.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 CALLER: I'm at Ohio State right outside of Watts Hall. And there is a guy who crashed his car into a bunch of people and ran out with a knife.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 CALLER: We need an ambulance here fast.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now, we're also learning more from a Facebook post that the attacker posted, according to authorities, at about the time of the attack. Want to read you a part of this. It says, "My brothers and sisters, I am sick and tired of seeing my fellow Muslim brothers and sisters being killed and tortured everywhere. Seeing my fellow Muslims being tortured, raped and killed in Burma, led to a boiling point, I can't take it anymore."

Now, authorities, looking at all of these elements and trying to figure out a motive, Carol, because that's one of the big looming questions right now is, what would drive an individual to actually do this at his campus. Right now, authorities tell us that they're not ruling out terrorism but they haven't nailed down a motive at this point. Carol?

COSTELLO: Rosa, tell us about this police officer who stopped this attacker.

FLORES: You know, he is being hailed a hero. This is a Police Officer Alan Horujko. He's a young man. He graduated from this university. And the student newspaper actually interviewed him when he joined the force. And one of the things that really stood out to me, Carol, is that he described what inspired him to be a police officer. He was in the school of engineering and he started working for the public safety service here in the university, and got inspired to join the force. And now of course Carol after what happened yesterday, that's quite the feat from this young man who actually killed the attacker and probably saved lives.

COSTELLO: All right, Rosa Flores reporting live from Columbus, Ohio, thank you. With me now, Louann Carnahan, she lived next door to the attacker and his family. Welcome, Luanne.

LOUANN CARNAHAN, LIVED NEXT DOOR TO OSU ATTACKER: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Thank you for being with me. I know you've had quite a morning, you're on national television. But earlier this morning, you were interviewed by the Justice Department?

CARNAHAN: Yes, I was. COSTELLO: Did they just knock on your door?

CARNAHAN: Yes, they did. But I'm really not at liberty to discuss anything that we talked about.

COSTELLO: I totally understand that. It just must have been a little - was it a little nerve-racking?

CARNAHAN: Yes, been nerve-racking since I walked out my door yesterday at 11:20.

COSTELLO: I can't even imagine. So, when you were watching the news and you saw that -- this attacker actually lived next door to you, what went through your mind?