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Rep. Tom Price Picked for HHS; Trump Meets with Romney Tonight; Obamacare and the Price Pick. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired November 29, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there and welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Brianna Keilar.

And we are 52 days before Donald Trump is sworn in as president and he's taking a major step toward keeping one of his major campaign promises, to repeal Obamacare. And in the first of at least two cabinet nominations expected to come down today, Trump chose this man, Georgia Congressman and chairman of the House Budget Committee, Tom Price, to head the Department of Health and Human Services. Price is an orthopedic surgeon. He was for 20 years before going into politics. And he has been an Obamacare critic from day one.

This afternoon we expect to hear Donald Trump announce Elaine Chao as his pick for transportation secretary. She served as labor secretary under George Bush 43 and deputy transportation secretary for Bush 41. And she is the wife of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

The president-elect also picked a new head of Medicare and Medicaid today, Seema Verma. She ran the Medicaid program in Indiana under governor and now Vice President-elect Mike Pence.

CNN's Phil Mattingly is standing watch at Trump Tower where another full day of job interviews is on tap.

Things moving today, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. And I think it's important to note on two of the biggest priorities for the president- elect throughout the campaign, you now have the point people in place. Another point, particularly on the health care side of things, Brianna, when you have Seema Verma and you have Tom Price.

Now, I've been talking to Republican officials on Capitol Hill and you talk to Trump transition officials as well and the thing you hear repeatedly right now is "dream team." This is the health care dream team. Now, hyperbolic, yes, to some degree, but from a conservative policy perspective, this is that on some level. In Tom Price you have somebody with a ton of experience both as an orthopedic surgeon but also on the complexities of policy on Capitol Hill. He has been the leading opponent of Obamacare on Capitol Hill, but also the leader of drafting alternatives to the Affordable Care Act. So there's somebody there with real policy experience, real world experience that they feel like could really help spearhead these things. But also on another really crucial component of the president-elect's

agenda, infrastructure. Elaine Chao will be named in about an hour, I'm told, Brianna, the transportation secretary. Obviously you listed off her credentials. When it comes to knowing how the federal government works, knowing how D.C. operates, there are few with more experience than Elaine Chao. And, obviously, kind of a two-for-one deal, if you will, in terms of the fact that she is the wife of Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader. Donald Trump made very clear, he wants a very large - very large, encompassing infrastructure package to move very early on in the course of his first term. The transportation secretary will play a huge role in that. Her ability to maneuver in D.C. and her relationships obviously on the Senate and, frankly, in her own home, those aren't going to hurt, Brianna.

KEILAR: No, they aren't.

And tell us about what's going on with the secretary of state pick. This is the big one. And we know that Donald Trump has a special dinner this evening.

MATTINGLY: Yes, that's exactly right, a one-on-one private dinner with Mitt Romney, the 2012 nominee. And, look, as the Trump transition operation is really focused on some of these lower-level cabinet picks, not quite the prestige of secretary of state, everybody else's focus has been on just that, secretary of state, and with good reason. The Trump operation's own people are the ones that continue to bring it up. Obviously, Kellyanne Conway, the campaign manager of the Trump campaign, a very close advisor to the president-elect right now, has made very clear her position against Mitt Romney and that she's hearing from a lot of people who supported the president-elect who don't want Mitt Romney anywhere near a Trump administration.

Still, the president-elect willing to meet privately with Mitt Romney tonight. He's also meeting with Bob Corker, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, a prospective secretary of state candidate as well. Keep an eye on Rudy Giuliani. Obviously David Petraeus came in here yesterday and the president-elect tweeted out that he was very impressed.

But I want to note one thing, Brianna. Mitt Romney is the first and only person to have a second lengthy sit-down one-on-one with the president-elect throughout this transition process. Does that mean he's going to get the job? Transition officials are kind of playing coy here, but they know, despite the opposition inside the president- elect's open team, that Romney is very much in the running right now, very much in play and anything could really happen. It's all really up to the president-elect.

Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, is he telling him he gets the job or is this just a very respectful breakup? We shall see.

Phil Mattingly at Trump Tower, thank you so much for that.

I want to talk more about the likely future secretary of Health and Human Services with a man who knows him very well. Jack Kingston represented the first congressional district of Georgia for 22 years, and he's now the head of the Georgia GOP Foundation, and an adviser to the president-elect.

Thank you so much for being here.

JACK KINGSTON, FORMER GEORGIA GOP CONGRESSMAN: Thank you.

KEILAR: And talking about what's such an important pick in your friend Tom Price, soon to be, we would expect, former congressman and future secretary of HHS. There's so much to dig into on policy here because Donald Trump actually signaled, much to the surprise of many people right after he was elected, that he would be open to keeping some key parts of Obamacare. People who are 26 and younger on their parents' health insurance plan and then the big one which is pre-existing conditions and that not - that health insurance companies have to cover them. I wonder how that is possible without a mandate, because it was that requirement that everyone get health insurance that allowed health insurance companies the ability to afford covering all the pre-existing conditions.

[12:05:29] KINGSTON: Well, I think, Brianna, that's why the selection of Tom Price is so important because not only does he have what Phil was talking about, that real world medical experience. And not only has he been a policy wonk on health care reform, but he's chairman of the Budget Committee and active member of the Ways and Means Committee. So he knows where money is in the budget and he knows where the taxes come from. And you can't do health care reform without really addressing the budget and the tax issues.

So Tom Price is an absolute perfect fit for it. And I think what we're going to find is that there are some revenues out there for middle- class tax credits to make health care affordable. There's ways to make it more accessible through his knowledge of the medical business. And I just think he's going to be able to combine these things together.

Not going to be an easy task. He will have the Democrats onboard on some things.

KEILAR: He - but he differs with what Donald Trump has said he wants to do on pre-existing conditions. They're not exactly on the same page here.

KINGSTON: No, but I think they're close enough and - and I think this is a little bit like horseshoes that, you know, you don't have to have perfect, but close enough really will count. And he's going to be able to do the -

KEILAR: Well, how - but, how? Explain that to me because how do you reconcile the not covering pre-existing conditions with saying that that is, as Donald Trump said when asked if he's going to keep it, yes, and he said it's one of the strongest assets?

KINGSTON: Well, Tom Price, over the last ten years, he was reforming Obamacare before there was Obamacare.

KEILAR: He's had many, many plans.

KINGSTON: Yes. And so I think he - that one of his options probably had a different wording than Donald Trump's, but now he works for Donald Trump, so he's going to do what the Trump model is, but he's the guy who can, you know, get inside the engine of health care and tinker with it and make it run better. He's also going to look at Medicaid expansion. He's probably going to look at some malpractice reform, frivolous lawsuits -

KEILAR: Sure. The Medicaid expansion that you mentioned, is he - his plan has actually been about repealing the Medicaid expansion.

KINGSTON: Yes -

KEILAR: The money that the federal government gives to states so that they can afford that expansion of covering poor people?

KINGSTON: Well, he - one of his ideas has been block (ph) grant. Let the states take the lead. Because, in Georgia, we may want to do it differently than they do it in New York, and they might want to do it differently in California. So recognizing that states need to tailor make it.

KEILAR: But his - his most recent plan includes a repeal of the Medicaid expansion?

KINGSTON: Well, again, remember, he's still going to be working for Donald Trump. And I think most people understand that Medicaid expansion probably led by the states could be a way to pick up some of the under and uninsured people that are out there. So I think that's an option for consideration. I don't think right now anybody's saying, this is the plan. But this is a guy who knows what kind of plans are out there, and he know what he can get through the House, 218 votes, and Tom Price can get there.

KEILAR: Sure. But how - but how is that - I mean keeping all of these key parts of Obamacare, that's not exactly repealing Obamacare.

KINGSTON: Well, I think having it more affordable through medical savings accounts, empowering the consumers, getting the bureaucracy out of there, getting rid of some of the unneeded regulations -

KEILAR: But what's really - what's being repealed? What's being changed? Because I hear you talking about adding things. We know there might be competition over state lines. But I don't really understand where the repeal part is?

KINGSTON: I think the big change would be that health care becomes between the patient and the doctor, not dictated by Washington bureaucrats or by insurance companies.

KEILAR: But how - what is the change? What is - what is the actual change that ensures that principle that you're talking about?

KINGSTON: Well, I - I think getting the government to step back, letting the private sector lead more, having an option of plans, probably having some mandated benefits, but not Washington top-down, one size fits all policy makes it more competitive, allowing health care sales across state lines so that people, as a Georgian, I can buy my health care in South Carolina or Alabama, the way I can just about any other product in the world, by the way. That's going to put more competition in it. Unleashing the private sector by getting rid of some of these unnecessary regulations and making it so doctors can practice medicine without the constant fear of frivolous lawsuits, that will bring down costs and inject competition in the system.

KEILAR: That is a big part of his plan.

All right, former Congressman Jack Kingston, always appreciate you being on. Thank you so much.

KINGSTON: Well, thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: And the president-elect is finding himself amid another controversy. This time it's over a tweet that he put out involving flag burning. This is the tweet. It says, "nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag. If they do, there must be consequences. Perhaps loss of citizenship or a year in jail."

Now, we're getting first reactions on this issue from leaders in President-elect Trump's own party. This includes Senator John McCain, who just told this to CNN's Manu Raju.

[12:10:04] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I have not been commenting on Mr. Trump. I will continue not to comment on Mr. Trump.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: But he said that the people who burn the flag should be prosecuted. What do you think about that?

MCCAIN: (INAUDIBLE). A very close decision on the United - by the United States Supreme Court. I do not approve of burning the flag. I think it should - there should be some punishment, but I - right now, the Supreme Court decision is that people are free to express themselves that way. But I do not approve of it and I - and I think there's other ways for people to express their views rather than burn a flag that so many Americans fought and died for.

RAJU: He even said lose citizenship over it.

MCCAIN: Yes.

RAJU: He even said that people should lose citizenship.

MCCAIN: I do not commenting on Mr. Trump's comments. I have not and will not.

RAJU: Why - why not? He's the president-elect and you're a very senior member up here.

MCCAIN: Because that's my choice. Because it's my choice. And I am just re-elected by the people of Arizona. And I - during that campaign, I did not comment on Mr. Trump. I will continue to not, because I have to defend this nation. I'm the chairman of the Armed Services Committee. We have all kinds of challenges. My time is devoted to trying to make sure this nation is secured, not to comment on every comment of Mr. Trump's. Now that may be your priority, and yours and yours. That may be your priority to comment every day on any comment that Mr. Trump has. My priority is to try to defend the nation and the men and women who are serving it. And it does not - I cannot carry out that mission by responding to every comment of Mr. - of President -elect Trump's.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Manu Raju joining me now.

Wow, the maverick is really sort of holding his tongue there, Manu?

RAJU: Yes, that's right. You know, it really just shows, Brianna, that Donald Trump's comments, his tweets, are a big distraction for members of congress up here. They're trying to focus on other issues. John McCain had a difficult relationship with Donald Trump through the course of his own re-election campaign. Of course, Donald Trump criticizing POWs, like John McCain himself, during that campaign. And McCain ultimately revoking his endorsement of Trump after that "Access Hollywood" video came out. So it really shows, Brianna, that not all Republicans are falling in line behind their president-elect, and the things that he says on Twitter can be an unwelcome distraction.

I also had a chance to talk to Trump's former rival, Ted Cruz, about that flag burning tweet. Cruz similarly criticized flag burning, but he would not say whether or not he agrees with Trump that folks should be prosecuted or possibly lose their citizenship, Brooke -- Brianna.

KEILAR: It's interesting because when you recall back eight years ago, John McCain would criticize then President George W. Bush. He really didn't have a problem holding back then. And clearly he's commenting on what Donald Trump is talking about, but holding his fire on the actual president-elect. Do you think that's going to last?

RAJU: It will be difficult to last, because he is the president-elect. He's going to make - when he becomes the president, everything he says, his party's going to have to respond to. And that's what we saw throughout the campaign trail where members tried to avoid and do this delicate dance over their nominee at the time, now the president. They're going to have to respond, because the things that he says will set the policy for this country, will set the direction for the Republican Party. So, eventually, folks are going to have to weigh in a little bit more aggressively. But it does show that Donald Trump may have 52 Republican senators, but that doesn't mean they're all in one mind. And people like John McCain, it will be difficult for him to fall in line on every single issue. It could be difficult to get things done here, Brianna, despite the fact that they have Republican control in both chambers.

KEILAR: That's right. Oh, my goodness, who would have though. OK, Manu Raju on The Hill for us, thank you. And, next, President-elect Donald Trump's choice for Health and Human

Services secretary, he's a major critic of Obamacare. Perhaps "the" critic of Obamacare. How hard would it be to get rid of the program and replace it? Chief medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta joining me live.

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[12:18] KEILAR: A doctor turned lawmaker who has spent years planning an Obamacare overhaul, or repeal, is about to get his chance. As we have been reporting, President-elect Donald Trump has picked Georgia Congressman Tom Price to head the Department of Health and Human Services. CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joining me now from Atlanta.

So, Sanjay, just give us a sense of the kinds of changes that we might see, because I was just talking to someone very close to Tom Price here, we had Jack Kingston on, former congressman, and a lot of what he was talking about seemed to be tinkering with Obamacare, maybe with the exception of changes to Medicaid. It's just so murky.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think it is murky and, you know, we're going to wait and see a little bit, obviously, as to how this plays out.

KEILAR: Oh, no, I think we -

GUPTA: Can you hear me? Sorry. OK. I don't know if you can hear me.

KEILAR: All right, you know what we're going to do, Sanjay, unfortunately I cannot hear you. We're going to get Sanjay's audio fixed. We're go to go to our panel right now and then we're going to bring - Sanjay, can you hear me?

GUPTA: Can you hear me?

KEILAR: OK, I can hear you.

GUPTA: OK.

KEILAR: All right, I think -

GUPTA: Sorry about that, I -

KEILAR: Fix that mic. You got it?

GUPTA: I had my mic on. Yes, I don't know what happened there, but -

KEILAR: All right, no problem. All right, I don't think it was just that. I didn't hear you at all. So, OK, so you heard my question.

GUPTA: I did.

KEILAR: So - so what might we see, it's so murky?

GUPTA: Yes, I mean some of it we're going to have to wait and see, obviously, because some of those details will be forthcoming. But, you know, Price is a - Tom Price has been somebody who's been talking about this for a long time, as you pointed out, Brianna, ever since the Affordable Care Act was passed. So there are some pretty significant details in what he wants to do. The sort of top line is that he essentially wants to remove some of the control from the federal government with regard to our health care system. I think that's sort of the top line, he wants to put some of that control back into the hands of consumers, back into the hands of people who are actually buying insurance, as opposed to the federal government.

So, for example, we talk a lot about an individual mandate, people have to buy insurance, can get subsidies if they can't afford that insurance. He doesn't want to have that mandate. Instead, he wants to offer tax credits for people who buy insurance to try and incentivize them. That would be an example of sort of putting it more in the hands of the market and the consumers as opposed to the federal government.

[12:20:08] The concern I think a lot of people have is, look, in addition he wants to reign in Medicaid expansion, which probably has, you know, some 15 million people insured. What happens to the people on the Medicaid expansion if he does that? If he changes the exchanges, the Affordable Care Act exchanges, the Obamacare exchanges, what happen to the 20 or so million people who are on the exchanges now? I can tell you that, you know, you probably just filled out benefits recently, Brianna.

KEILAR: I did.

GUPTA: I did as well. So nothing is probably going to happen for the next year because of that, because that's sort of in place. But I think going forward, you know, you may start to see some of his fingerprints on how the ACA changes.

KEILAR: What about the - and we heard Donald Trump say that pre- existing conditions, he said it's one of the strongest assets of the program. He wants to keep this. How do you keep that if you're not going to keep the requirement that people have insurance? Because insurance companies - that was the whole point -

GUPTA: That's right.

KEILAR: The mandate then allowed them to be able to afford it, and for them to be onboard with the program.

GUPTA: Yes, well, let me - let me answer this as completely as I can, because it's a really important point. One is that, first of all, there would not be the protection that we've heard about in terms of people not being discriminated against based on pre-existing conditions. That protection, at least according to what we've seen from Tom Price, would not be there anymore.

What he has suggested and others have suggested as well was that states would be given some grant money to essentially create high-risk pools to help take care of people who have pre-existing conditions. He has said, and this is to your point, that if you maintain coverage, if you have continuous coverage and you never let that coverage lapse, then you would not be - you would be given the same premiums of someone else your age, as opposed to people who have a medical condition. But if you ever had to let your coverage lapse for whatever reason, you're switching jobs or you lose your job or whatever, you could be in real trouble because at that point the protection against preexisting conditions is completely gone. So it really can leave a lot of people in the lurch who have a pre-existing condition who are forced to stay with a particular insurer or particular employer because of that. That's one of the big concerns here.

KEILAR: Yes, it certainly is a big concern. All right, thank you so much for explaining that to us. Sanjay Gupta, appreciate it.

GUPTA: Sure.

KEILAR: And I want to talk more about this, about health care, Obamacare, with my panel. We have Heidi Przybyla, she's a senior politics reporter for "USA Today," Jackie Kucinich with us as well, she's a CNN political analyst and Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast," and Dana Bash, CNN's chief political correspondent.

This - this - and you - you mentioned this in the commercial break. We didn't hear a lot about this during the campaign season from Donald Trump, and here I think this is an issue that is becoming very real very fast.

HEIDI PRZYBYLA, SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER, "USA TODAY": We heard a lot about undoing Obamacare for sure, but what we're talking about now, and everyone at this table knows this because we all cover Congress, is that the Republican establishment that is now putting - being put into these positions of power in the cabinet and elsewhere has long wanted to take a much bigger whack at the entire safety net system, including Social Security, including Medicare, including Medicaid. And so the question is, to what extent is Donald Trump going to go back to his populist roots and put his foot down on some of this stuff? Because while he campaigned on Obamacare, I think it will come as a surprise to many of his base that the Republican establishment is now really in power to go ahead and make some of these cuts. And they will have to make them if they pass this tax cut plan.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Because he was pretty clear, in addition to the Obamacare repeal, to your point, that he doesn't want to touch the safety net.

PRZYBYLA: Yes.

BASH: He doesn't want to do away with some - or engage in the changes, the fundamental changes that Paul Ryan has -

KEILAR: Changing Medicare, voucherizing Medicare, for instance.

BASH: Right, that Paul Ryan has talked about, which he says is crucial for keeping Medicare and Social Security solvent. Donald Trump has said, I don't - I don't want to do that. I remember during the debates, one that I participated in, he was very clear, he doesn't - it needs (ph) testing, no way, and then from there on down, it was just not something he was interested in. Now that he has more traditional establishment Republicans to deal with, not just in Congress but now in his cabinet, the question is how he's going to approach that.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And you do wonder that, because we've seen this in other areas with Donald Trump. He talked to General Mattis and said, oh, actually torture isn't something that works. So you might - you might - you could see him being able to pivot on this, or trying to pivot on it, after talking to experts, like these establishment Republicans that have been advocating for entitlement reform for a very, very, very long time.

KEILAR: But how do you say to - I mean even though when you're proposing changes, as Paul Ryan wants to do to Medicare or we're talking about a Medicaid expansion that could be voided, so that's - you're talking about millions of poor people then without insurance. And when you're talking about older people on Medicare, even when you're talking about changes, they are delayed changes. But you say - it strikes me that voters will say they're in favor of an Obamacare repeal, but if it's touching anything of what they have, they - it's a different story. They don't think that it should be that way. And that could also shape his opinion of how this should go.

[12:25:19] PRZYBYLA: Many of these Republicans elected Donald Trump to do one thing, and Democrats too, moderate Democrats, and that is to create jobs, not to whack away at the safety net. And as someone who's covered the budget, for instance, there is great political peril in this if his voters start to view this as a broader assault on the safety net because the red states are actually what we call recipient states. Many of the blue states are the states that provide the federal tax dollars that go to the recipients states where Donald Trump won.

KEILAR: So where Donald Trump won - where Donald Trump won -

BASH: Precisely.

KEILAR: People are benefitting a lot from -

KUCINICH: From these programs.

KEILAR: From these programs.

KUCINICH: Correct. Absolutely. And that - and that's where he's going to hear it from. And that's where - that who's going - that's who is inevitably going to change his mind on this because he does listen to his base, and to the people that voted for him. That's been something that he has pledged to do throughout his incoming presidency.

BASH: And something that is kind of an understood part of this conversation, but maybe we should say explicitly, is that the reason we're having this conversation is, it's not entirely clear -

KUCINICH: Sure.

BASH: What Donald Trump wants to do. He wasn't that specific during the campaign. He was specific in wanting to repeal Obamacare, but not with what he wants to do. Again, I remember during debates he said he wants to do the traditional Republican proposal of doing away with state lines, allowing more competition across state lines, and negotiating better deals. What does that mean? We don't know.

KEILAR: We don't. So many unanswered questions. Dana, Jackie, Heidi, thank you all so much.

And up next, the violent attack on Ohio State's campus. Why police are now looking at terrorism as a possible motive. We're going to tell you what we have learned about the dead suspect Abdul Razak Ali Artan.

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