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Report: Sources Say OSU Attacker Inspired by ISIS; House Homeland Security Chairman Comments on ISIS Attack; Trump Says Burn Flag and Jail Or Lose Citizenship

Aired November 29, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Back to our breaking story. We will take you back to politics momentarily. But Shimon Prokupecz, let me just bring you back in from our justice beat here at CNN because as were sitting at that news conference listening to the professor who survived that attack on campus yesterday morning, you just learned some major pieces of information about the suspect and some motivations, what did you learn?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: At this point it's looking like Artan the suspect here, the attacker, was inspired by ISIS and also the now-dead Yemeni cleric Anwar Al Awlaki. This is all based off of the suspects Facebook postings and other information that authorities are not sharing with us that

leads them to believe that right now this was a lone wolf attack and that he was inspired by ISIS and Al Awlaki.

So, all pointing towards an act of terrorism right now but authorities are still working through a lot of information they have. They're working through his cell phone and a computer they recovered that belongs to him. So, there's still a lot of questions they need to answer and specifically they want to make sure he wasn't working with anyone, making sure he wasn't communicating with anyone overseas.

It doesn't look that way right but certainly they can't rule it out. It's a significant development. They don't know what set him off and why he chose yesterday as a day to do this and unleash this attack but certainly they have some answers now as to what probably inspired him and moved him into the direction he was going in and doing this attack.

BALDWIN: It's super important that you pointed out the fact that we don't know, you said he hasn't communicated with people overseas, investigators are looking into whether he had help or a self- radicalized situation. Shimon, let's focus on the point he chose to use his car as a weapon. Remember what that terrorist used in Nice with his car along the promenade taking out families before shooting them. And this is what ISIS has called for, correct?

PROKUPECZ: Correct. And in one of their latest magazines released in October they called for this type of attack so this is leading authorities to believe that he was inspired by ISIS. Authorities haven't shared that with us but the way in which he conducted this attack after he got out of the car with the butcher knife all leads them to believe that he was inspired by ISIS. The other thing we keep seeing is Anwar Al Awlaki, he keeps popping up so clearly dead after so many years still playing a role, still inspiring some of these attackers but certainly the role ISIS continues to play in their propaganda and stuff they keep putting out, these magazines are having an effect as there's still concern the damage they're doing can go on for a time. Even though we're perhaps eliminating ISIS across the world but there's concern their propaganda is going to last for years to come.

BALDWIN: Do we know, Shimon, I know you reported this car he used, it was a family member's car. Do we know if he lived at home or where he had been to school and his relationship to Ohio State?

[15:35:00] PROKUPECZ: The school told us he was a freshman there. We know from people close to the family and law enforcement that he lived at home. His mother spoke to authorities and said she had not seen anything to indicate he had these kind of thoughts or that he was radicalized or consuming this propaganda.

She told him he was having some issues at school. The car belonged to his brother which created confusion yesterday in trying to identify him because all authorities had to go by was the -- who the car was registered to which was his brother and it wasn't until they were able to I.D. him that they had the right name for the attacker.

BALDWIN: And I guess before I let you go, what's significant in all of this and listening to the professor, everyone survived except the suspect that was taken down by the police officer. It happened so fast, he comes on the campus with the car, gets out of the car with a butcher's knife and starts stabbing people in a minute's time and a policeman took him down.

PROKUPECZ: It's incredible. This first responder was there. It's also important to point out no one else was shot. The officer was very poised and controlled. Fired a couple shots. According to witnesses they only heard three or four shots. It's significant and it looks like the training these officers go through at these universities because there's always a fear of mass shootings they train for this stuff.

BALDWIN: They were ready. Just hearing the doctor at that hospital saying also a silver lining it wasn't a gun. That that would have been much, much worse in terms of injuries. Shimon, thank you so much as always for breaking the news for us, appreciate it.

Quick break, we'll be right back.

[15:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: I want to stay on this breaking story out of Columbus, Ohio. We've been learning new information on perhaps some of the motivation of this young Somali immigrant who used his car as a weapon yesterday morning on campus in Columbus trying to take out students with his car and then a butcher's knife.

I have Paul Cruickshank with us now, a CNN terror analyst and Brynn Gingras is in Columbus, but, Paul, I wanted to talk to you first and foremost. The last time I laid eyes on you is when we were standing in Nice and talking about ISIS call to use cars as weapons but it doesn't appear this young man was at all in contact with any terror groups. So what's your interpretation of this?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERROR ANALYST: That's right, Brooke, no evidence at all that he was in contact with any terror group including ISIS. ISIS just put out this statement via the media agency claiming he was a soldier of the caliphate but not claiming he was part of them in the sense that he trained with them or spent time with them just that he acted on their behalf.

You can see in his Facebook posting which was put out just before the attack traces of influence on the al Qaeda side with Anwar Al Awlaki. Calling that American Yemeni cleric who was part of al Qaeda in Yemen our hero imam. So clearly Anwar Al Awlaki had an inspirational role in this attack. In this same statement talking about how the United States should make peace with ISIS to stop these kind of lone wolf attacks so there you see the ISIS influence in this.

But the attacker did not go out of his way to brand this for one or the other or any organization he seems to have been an independent lone wolf. He seems to have been angered by certain events he was seeing play out around the world, notably in Myanmar. He said he reached boiling point because of the killings and ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Myanmar and that was something the United Nations drew attention to in a big way just last week.

BALDWIN: It was interesting, too, when this -- if this individual was inspired both by ISIS and Al Awlaki who was an al Qaeda leader, it reminds me of what happened in Orlando at that nightclub and that suspect there who, you know, pledged his allegiance to multiple terror organizations and I'm just left wondering is this the new face of terrorism here?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, Brooke, it's one of the new faces of terrorism, in the Orlando case he did go out of his way on that 911 call to kind of pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi. It's more similar to what we saw play out in New York in September with the Chelsea bomber who appears with both animated by a sort of pro-ISIS sentiment, pro-al Qaeda sentiment.

There's a lot of bad blood between these two terrorist groups. But for some of the individuals far away from Syria and Iraq, this is a distinction without a difference, this sort of difference of theological interpretation between these two groups, they're fans of both and they're responding to their message to carry out attacks and just two weeks ago, ISIS in their English language magazine put out a how-to guide for how to launch these kind of car vehicle attacks.

[15:45:00] In the west calling for attacks around Thanksgiving. The NYPD put a lot of protection in place to protect that Thanksgiving parade route but you can't protect every possible target in the United States and clearly these individuals will be able to launch these attacks in the future. And we saw in Nice over the summer both you and I we saw the dreadful aftermath of that attack. 86 people killed, more people injured with a large truck that you can carry out an absolutely atrocious terrorist atrocity. This is something that has not escaped the attention of terrorist groups like ISIS, they're pressing on their followers to launch more of these attacks in the months that may welcome. And it may be that this perpetrator took heed in some of those.

BALDWIN: That was haunting and at least in the case of Columbus, Ohio, the school and law enforcement acted so swiftly. Paul Cruickshank, as always, thank you so much.

We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, the latest comings and goings over at Trump tower as the President-elect is making additional choices for members of his cabinet. Who will he choose as his next secretary of state? One possibility just walked out the door, another is going to dinner with him. We'll be right back.

[15:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE MCCAUL, CHAIRMAN, HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: I just had a very substantive and productive conversation with the President-elect, Donald Trump, regarding homeland security issues, national security issues, the most important issues facing this nation. I look forward to working with him and this administration moving forward in this next -- in this next term, to work with the President and the administration on the most important issues facing the nation.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What was your reaction to Mr. Trump saying this morning that flag burning should be illegal?

MCCAUL: I really don't have any comment beyond that other than, again, it was a very substantive, productive discussions on very, very important issues. As we saw yesterday, Ohio State, ISIS has now declared the individual to be a soldier of ISIS. It demonstrates that the terror threat in the United States is still very high. I articulated to the President how we need to close off all terror pathways into the United States. We need to secure our borders and secure the United States from these terrorists coming into the United States and perpetrating acts of terror like what we saw yesterday.

It's a reminder that the terror threat is real, that the messages coming out of Iraq and Syria are to attack and attack the infidel in the back yard. We saw that just here in New York right after 9/11, with Mr. Rahami. Sheikh Adnani out of Raqqa has been sending message to not come to Syria but rather attack in the back yard wherever you are.

That's why I believe the conversation I had with the President-elect was so productive and necessary, so that we can take the steps in this next administration to better protect Americans and to make America safe again. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That is man who would like to be referred to, perhaps, as the former chair of the house homeland security committee, Congressman McCaul there, just leaving Trump tower after meeting with the President-elect as a potential pick for secretary of homeland security. That is just one face who has come and gone and met with the next President of the United States. Jeff Zeleny is standing by as is Manu Raju. Before we talk about Capitol Hill, let's talk about Trump tower, Jeff, and the comings and goings. We also know that President-elect Trump met with senator Corker as a potential secretary of state pick. Trump has some big decisions to make.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He does indeed, Brooke, he's already ticking through them. We've seen a couple high-level announcements made already today, the head of the transportation department, secretary of transportation as well as health and human services. He has done those picks. He is actually doing pretty well in terms of ticking through the potential cabinet secretaries. You're right. Chairman Mike McCaul is one of the contenders to be the homeland security secretary, we're told.

It's so interesting, after watching this long campaign, against Washington, the people walking through the lobby of Trump tower are by and large from Washington. The chairman who is a Republican from Texas, is the latest example. Bob Corker, the senator from Tennessee, also potentially in line to be secretary of state. He also is from Washington. So, a very largely traditional cabinet up until this point, by and large from Washington, which certainly is interesting given the tone against Washington during this campaign.

BALDWIN: I want to loop around and ask you about governor Romney and the big dinner out tonight. Before I do to our friend on Capitol Hill, Manu. Tell me about your conversation with senator McCain.

[15:55:00] MANU RAJU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I asked him about the issue of flag burning which, of course, Donald Trump re-litigated this morning through his twitter account by saying people who burn flags should be prosecuted, possibly thrown into jail, possibly even lose their citizenship. Of course, the supreme court has upheld the right under the first amendment for people to burn flags, even if you disagree with that act. So, John McCain, of course, a war hero, a veteran, who actually voted for a ban on flag burning back in 2006. I asked him about Donald Trump's tweet, and he had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: He said that the people who burn the flag should be prosecuted. What do you think about that?

JOHN MCCAIN, SENATOR, ARIZONA: A very close decision on the -- by the United States supreme court. I do not approve of burning the flag. I think that it should -- there should be some punishment, but I - right now the supreme court decision is that people are free to express themselves that way. I cannot comment on Mr. Trump's comments. I have not and will not.

RAJU: Why not? He is the President-elect. You're a senior member up here.

MCCAIN: Because that's my choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, John McCain clearly suggesting that Donald Trump's tweets and a lot of his comments are a distraction for Republicans up here. John McCain not wanting to comment on what Donald Trump has said. Showcases some of the tension that existed during the Presidential campaign has not dissipated and the fact that Donald Trump says things, whether about flag burning or about people voting illegally, fraudulent votes happening without any evidence. Republicans do not want to weigh in on that. It just shows that a lot of things that Donald Trump says is taking him off message just as the party is trying to unite, Brooke.

BALDWIN: It shows not all the Republican senators may be in line with the President-elect. Jeff, let me pivot back to you and this dinner. As far as potential picks for secretary of state, we saw general Petraeus. He met with Trump yesterday. We talked about senator Corker. Governor Romney will have dinner with Mr. Trump. Their better halves will be in attendance. Anne Romney and Melanie Trump. Knowing that dinner is involved, the potential, will you have this rose situation, to quote a guest in my last hour? Or might this be a gentleman, thanks for playing along. Buy you dinner on the way out.

ZELENY: A great question. An apt analogy because this has been the most sort of unusual selection of a potential cabinet here. The drama of the closed-door meetings, having people vie for this by going into the front door. The fact that they're having dinner together tonight I think does signify a signal that this conversation is still very much alive, that Donald Trump is trying to become comfortable with the idea, potentially, of Mitt Romney.

The wives join is certainly interesting as well. It is definitely for show because we are -- we know about it, and they are going to advise it this evening. We'll see what Donald Trump decides. This is probably one of the most important cabinet positions and he and he alone will finally make that once he sorts through all the noise.

BALDWIN: I have 15 more seconds with you. Quickly, Jeff. We saw former vice President and former Indiana senator as well Dan Quayle pop through. He goes way back with Kellyanne Conway and also perhaps with Mike Pence. What do you make of this visit?

ZELENY: She definitely helped him on a couple of his Presidential bids. I met her in Iowa in 1989 when he was thinking about running in 2000. They are long-time associates. I think it signals that she is still very much involved despite some potential things we have heard other places, and it shows that people are coming to pay respects to Donald Trump. He is the President -- he is going to be the next President in a month and a half or so, and people are coming to him, coming to Trump tower. Brooke.

BALDWIN: He is listening. We will see who he chooses, Manu and Jeff, thank you so much. Thank you for being with me. I am Brooke Baldwin, "The Lead" starts now.